Full Day Hansard Transcript (Legislative Council, 18 April 1996, Corrected Copy)

The President (The Hon. Max Frederick Willis) took the chair at 11.00 a.m.

The President offered the Prayers.


Bill received and read a first time.


Petition praying against the downgrading of the office of Governor of New South Wales, and seeking that the role, duties and future of the office be determined by a referendum, received from the Hon. Patricia Forsythe.


The Hon. J. H. JOBLING [11.10], by leave: I move the following notice of motion, as amended:

(1) That, during the present Session and notwithstanding anything contained in the Standing Orders, a Notice of Motion to disallow:

(a) a Statutory Rule under section 41 of the Interpretation Act 1987; or

(b) any other Statutory Instrument or document made under the authority of any Act and which is subject to disallowance by either or both Houses of the Parliament,

is to be placed on the Notice Paper as Business of the House and will take precedence of Government and General Business for the day on which the Notice is set down for consideration.

(2) The debate on any motion moved under this Sessional Order is to be conducted as follows:

(a) the Member moving the motion and the Minister first speaking may speak for not more than 15 minutes;

(b) any other Member and the mover in reply may speak for not more than 10 minutes;

(c) if the motion is not sooner disposed of, after a total time of one and a half hours of debate, the President is to interrupt proceedings to allow the mover of the motion to speak in reply; and

(d) the President will then put all questions necessary to dispose of the motion and any amendments.

This procedure would allow all honourable members the opportunity, if the need arises, to move a motion for disallowance of a regulation or a statutory rule - an important step that will affect regulations and Acts passed by this Parliament. Such a measure will also greatly affect the running of business and the determination of the actions of certain authorities. It is imperative, therefore, for disallowance motions to take precedence and be dealt with expeditiously; otherwise they will not be reached until after the time within which regulations and instruments may be disallowed, which would obviously be too late. The Government might be concerned that five or six disallowance motions might be placed on the notice paper and then debated endlessly, thus disrupting the Government's program. My motion would not permit that to happen.

I am seeking that such motions be disposed of expeditiously and that each honourable member have a reasonable time to speak to them. My motion proposes times that are not dissimilar to those provided for when matters of public importance are debated. At the expiration of the time allocated for debate the Chair will put the matter to the vote; otherwise it would not be concluded and could remain on the notice paper for an unlimited period. It is important that honourable members have sufficient time to speak in the debate. If the times I have suggested were reduced, honourable members would not be able to develop their argument as to whether a regulation should be disallowed. The motion will be advantageous, and I commend it to all honourable members.

The Hon. M. R. EGAN (Treasurer, Minister for Energy, Minister for State and Regional Development, Minister Assisting the Premier, and Vice-President of the Executive Council) [11.14]: I move:

That the question be amended by omitting all words after "Parliament," and inserting instead:

is to be placed on the Notice Paper as Business of the House.

(2) On the day proposed for moving the motion the House will first decide on a question proposed without amendment or debate "That the motion proceed forthwith".

(3) If the Question is agreed to, the Motion will then proceed as Business of the House.

(4) If the Question is not agreed to, the Motion will become a General Business Notice of Motion and will be set down on the Notice Paper of General Business for the next sitting day at the end of business already set down for that day.

I understand that the intent of the motion is to ensure that the House has an opportunity to deal expeditiously with a motion for disallowance of a regulation. The Hon. J. H. Jobling seeks to implement this procedure by way of a sessional order. In the normal course of events a motion for disallowance would simply become another item of general business, and the likelihood is that it would not be debated within the time specified for disallowing regulations. However, my amendment would enable a matter to be tested by a vote of the House in much the same way as an urgency motion is tested under Standing Order 13.

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The Hon. J. H. Jobling intends that the member moving the motion and the Minister or member first speaking for the other side should speak for not more than 15 minutes and that any other member should speak for not more than 10 minutes, with a total time limit of 1½ hours. What would happen with the business of the House if on any day two, three or four disallowance motions were debated? Even if only one disallowance motion is debated, 1½ hours will have been taken - and perhaps only one or two members will support the disallowance. The effect of my amendment is that once notice of a disallowance motion is given the matter will be debated the next day. The House will then vote to determine whether the matter should take precedence. If the majority of the House agrees that it should, the debate will proceed without time limits. My amendment will give the House an opportunity to test whether there is sufficient support for a disallowance motion to be debated immediately.

The Hon. J. P. HANNAFORD (Leader of the Opposition) [11.18]: There is no more important issue that can be dealt with by the House than the disallowance of a regulation. Once notice of a disallowance motion is given, the community is left in some doubt as to whether the regulation continues to be law. We must not allow that to continue. The motion would enable a disallowance motion to be debated quickly, and the member giving notice must be prepared to debate it immediately. That will resolve the matter and ensure that there is no legislative uncertainty. The amendment will not lead to an early resolution of a matter, and community uncertainty will continue. Imagine the lobbying that would be generated as a result!

A disallowance motion would then be dealt with on general business days unless contingent notices of motion are moved to bring it on. That would invite the moving of contingent notices of motion, and that would further disrupt government business. I acknowledge the suggestion by the Leader of the Government that members could abuse the process and disrupt government business by giving a number of notices of motions for disallowance. However, each notice should be dealt with when it occurs. If notice of a disallowance motion has been given, it should be dealt with quickly in order to determine whether a regulation will continue to be law. A time limit on debate will reduce the chances of filibustering and bring each matter to a speedy conclusion. I support the motion.

The Hon. ELISABETH KIRKBY [11.20]: As one of the few members in this House who had a running battle with members of the previous Government concerning the disallowance of regulations I support the remarks of the Hon. J. H. Jobling and the Leader of the Opposition. I remind those who were not members of this Chamber at the time that I had a run-in with the former Minister for Corrective Services in the Greiner Government when I moved to disallow a regulation that removed the right of prisoners to have personal possessions in their cells. The former Minister insisted that prisoners could not even have a crucifix or photographs of their children in their cells. The Minister went to ridiculous lengths and said their wedding rings were to be taken away from them. However, with the support of the Labor Opposition at that time that regulation was defeated.

Then what happened? The Minister immediately reimposed it and within a matter of days we had to debate it and disallow it a second time. So at least some humanity was shown towards the prisoners in our gaols. It is essential under any government to have a process to disallow regulations, but it is not a privilege or a right - whichever you wish to call it - that should be used lightly or abused. As elected representatives of constituents we have a duty to fight for the disallowance of unfair regulations. Unfortunately, the effect of the amendment of the Leader of the Government would be that a regulation might never be disallowed, however unfair and inhumane it was - similar perhaps to the prison regulation I referred to - because it would never come to a vote.

The Hon. M. R. Egan: That is not true.

The Hon. ELISABETH KIRKBY: This is what is so difficult. We must have a mechanism by which -

The Hon. M. R. Egan: The honourable member has not read my amendment and does not understand it.

The Hon. ELISABETH KIRKBY: I understand the Minister's amendment. If notice of a disallowance motion is placed in General Business, the 15 days within which a regulation can be disallowed will have elapsed before the motion is debated, let alone voted on.

The Hon. M. R. Egan: If the House wants to disallow, it would vote the following morning to debate it. I am giving the House an opportunity to vote.

The Hon. ELISABETH KIRKBY: It would not come to a vote if there was a filibuster.

The Hon. M. R. Egan: The amendment provides that the question be put without debate that the motion proceed forthwith. If there is no debate there could not be a filibuster. There would be an immediate vote.

The Hon. ELISABETH KIRKBY: It is an immediate vote on whether to debate the issue. It is not an immediate vote on the disallowance. There is all the difference in the world between a vote to disallow and a vote to proceed with debate. If one looks at the notice paper for today, it is obvious what the Government intends with some of the notices of motions: the list of speakers is so long that we shall never get to a vote. That is a deliberate attempt by the Government to deny us the ability to vote on matters that have been raised by
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the Opposition. I believe that the time limits proposed by the Hon. J. H. Jobling are legitimate, reasonable and sensible. They would prevent prolonged debate and filibustering and ensure that the question is put. The crux of the matter is that the question be put, not that the debate proceed.

The Hon. R. S. L. JONES [11.25]: I congratulate the Hon. J. H. Jobling on his motion, which I support. At present, people do not know for weeks or months at a time the fate of disallowance motions, and that is very wrong. Sometimes people are financially disadvantaged if certain developments do not go ahead. It is good to bring disallowance motions on as soon as possible and vote on them. The House will then decide whether to disallow. I agree that this process can be abused and that the Opposition sometimes likes to disrupt government business whenever it can, particularly before Christmas time, and make life very difficult indeed for the Government.

[Interruption]

After all, it is the tradition of the Opposition to try to make life as difficult as possible for the Government, is it not? The process can be, and is, open to abuse. The House should have the right to decide on every occasion whether it wishes a disallowance motion to take precedence. I will support the Opposition motion and the government amendment.

Reverend the Hon. F. J. NILE [11.26]: Obviously the House wants to have control of its own business and decide whether to debate a disallowance motion that an honourable member considers is so important as to warrant precedence. I support in principle the motion moved by the Hon. J. H. Jobling. I am attracted to the idea of imposing time limits on speeches, as is presently the case with debate on matters of urgency. The Leader of the Government said in response that we could have unlimited time. The general practice of the House is not to restrict members' speeches, but the precedent has been set with matters of urgency and the adjournment debate, when time limits are imposed. This motion would not change the principle that members have unlimited time to speak on bills.

I am in a dilemma because I also support the principle behind the Government's amendment to first allow the House to decide by vote, as with other motions, whether the matter is sufficiently important that it should proceed. If the House votes that it is, the matter proceeds. That would provide a check against wasting 1½ hours of the House's time on a matter supported by only one or two members. Since the last two elections a government has not had a majority in this House, and a record number of disallowance motions have been moved here. Those Governments have been forced to submit to votes on matters that were contrary to their policies. Call to Australia will support paragraph (1) of the motion moved by the Hon. J. H. Jobling; the insertion of the amendment of the Hon. M. R. Egan; and then the inclusion of paragraph (2) of the motion of the Hon. J. H. Jobling, which stipulates how the debate will be conducted. I move:

That the amendment of Mr Egan be amended by the addition of the following paragraph:

(5) The debate on any motion moved under paragraph (3) of this Sessional Order is to be conducted as follows:

(a) the Member moving the motion and the Minister first speaking may speak for not more than 15 minutes;

(b) any other Member and the mover in reply may speak for not more than 10 minutes;

(c) if the motion is not sooner disposed of, after a total time of one and a half hours of debate, the President is to interrupt proceedings to allow the mover of the motion to speak in reply; and

(d) the President will then put all questions necessary to dispose of the motion and any amendments.

The Hon. J. F. RYAN [11.31]: The scrutiny of regulations is one of the most important duties attended to by members of Parliament. Regulations, like Acts of Parliament, can affect adversely and onerously the liberties of individuals. They can impose significant penalties and restrictions on business. Last sittings the House dealt with regulations and motions for the disallowance of regulations which had a significant impact on the ability of persons to gather together in a group in national parks; it dealt with regulations that had a significant impact on the rights of people to walk through and traverse areas of public land known as national parks; it dealt with the impact of a series of regulations which threatened to cost the tourism industry $60 million.

The scrutiny of regulations is as important a role for members of Parliament as their role to scrutinise legislation. I have a particular objection to the amendments moved by the Leader of the House, on behalf of the Government, that the House be tested on its view about the disallowance of a motion before it is proceeded with. If the House is not properly briefed on what honourable members propose, the mover of the motion may never have the opportunity to explain and have recorded in Hansard reasons for moving the disallowance. I can almost guarantee that any disallowance motion will be objected to by the Government. By definition governments rarely agree to allow disallowance motions, and I imagine it would be rare for a government to allow a member to move such a motion.

If the proposal of the Leader of the House is adopted, prior to being able to debate these important issues members will have to interview six or seven members of the crossbench, convince their party room and beg the Government for the right to explain to the House why they are moving disallowance. If honourable members wish to place matters on the notice paper, they should have the opportunity to give reasons, albeit for only 10 or 15 minutes. Then, if the House votes against them, they know why, and the reasons for and against will be on the public record.

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The proposal puts an enormous and onerous task on individual members. Crossbench members could be jackbooted into believing that if a disallowance motion is allowed to be debated it will have calamitous results for the business of the House. The disallowance of regulations is a serious matter and should be conducted in public; it should not be discussed privately. The mover of the disallowance motion should have the opportunity to explain why the motion is being moved so that the public is fully cognisant of what is about to take place, in the same way as a Minister reads a second reading speech to explain legislation. That may not be permitted under the regime suggested by the Leader of the House. I ask him to consider changing his amendment to allow the mover of the motion some time to explain what he or she proposes, so the operations of this House may be seen to be open and democratic.

The Hon. J. H. JOBLING [11.38], in reply: I thank honourable members for their points of view. The amendment proposed by the Leader of the Government has the potential in many cases to deny an independent member the opportunity to move to disallow regulations. Disallowance motions are proposed after careful and responsible consideration. Debate in relation to them is often constrained by the number of days available that can be devoted to it. The amendment proposed by the Leader of the Government will not ensure that such a debate will take place; it will merely provide that when such a motion is moved it shall proceed forthwith. What happens then is subject to the will of the House. Depending on the number of speakers the debate may proceed endlessly - day in, day out. I am sure that is not the intention of the Leader of the Government.

Reference has been made to Standing Order 13 and matters of public importance. There is a substantive difference between this procedure and those relating to Standing Order 13 and matters of public importance. In the latter two cases discussions take place and time constraints apply, but votes are not take at the conclusion of the discussions. Such a vote will be obligatory for this procedure. Matters must be resolved within a prescribed time and not proceed endlessly. A vote is taken and honourable members know what will happen. If it were to be dealt with as proposed, and in the event that the motion does not proceed as business of the House, notice would have to be given in order to have the matter dealt with within the time provided for in the motion for disallowance. At present no time restrictions apply to such debate.

This motion is an attempt to ensure the right of all honourable members to move a motion for disallowance of a regulation and to protect the right of all honourable members to be heard expeditiously to ensure that those who may be affected by a regulation know where they stand and what is required of them. Such matters must be dealt with without unreasonable delay. The proposed alternative of a vote being taken prior to the moving of the proposed disallowance is unreasonable; it would place the member moving the motion at a disadvantage. I reject the amendment and commend my motion to the House.

Amendment of Reverend the Hon. F. J. Nile to the amendment of the Hon. M. R. Egan agreed to.

Amendment of the Hon. M. R. Egan as amended agreed to.

Motion as amended agreed to.


The Hon. Dr B. P. V. PEZZUTTI, by leave: I wish to make a personal explanation. Yesterday the Minister for Health made a very serious allegation. He claimed that I had wilfully misled Parliament when I alerted the House to the Minister's knowledge of Australian Medical Association documents that outlined allegations of fraud to cut hospital waiting lists. This is a matter of grave concern to me. I have never misled Parliament and I most certainly would not do so when making reference to the hospital waiting list, which is a matter of deep concern to me. I am outraged that Dr Refshauge feels the need to spread such scurrilous lies about me when he knows full well what I was talking about. When addressing the House yesterday on the reinstatement of the Select Committee on Hospital Waiting Lists I said that Dr Refshauge had viewed a document containing evidence of corruption by health officials. I, and the New South Wales branch of the AMA, stand by my statement that he has seen the evidence of the AMA. A press release of the AMA which was issued after reference to this matter in debate yesterday, stated:

. . . allegations by Dr Refshauge that the AMA has failed to produce this so-called evidence -

referring to the association's actuarial report into hospital waiting lists -

was a distortion of the truth.

The press release further stated:

Dr Refshauge must be aware that his office received a copy of the report which had exposed the fiddling of hospital waiting lists by hospital administrators in order to fulfil the state government's cynical election promise . . .

Earlier this year a series of newspaper articles documented both the release of the AMA report and the Minister's response to it. They clearly indicate that I did not mislead the Parliament yesterday. An article in the Sydney Morning Herald on 27 February stated:

The AMA chief released a report by an actuary, Mr Brent Walker, which claimed the Government had failed to fulfil its major election promise to cut . . . waiting lists.

The Hon. M. R. Egan: On a point of order. The Hon. Dr B. P. V. Pezzutti has gone well beyond the leave available to members making
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personal explanations. All the honourable member is required to do is say that he did not mislead the House. He is in fact debating the issue.

The Hon. Dr B. P. V. PEZZUTTI: On the point of order. I am about to demonstrate that I did not mislead the House and that Dr Refshauge has defamed me.

The PRESIDENT: Order! I suggest that the member address that issue.

The Hon. Dr B. P. V. PEZZUTTI: An article in the Daily Telegraph of 27 February stated:

He [Dr Michael Eagleton] said an AMA report revealed officials had overestimated their elective surgery waiting list when the Carr Government came to office.

Obviously that is evidence of the release of such a document, and Dr Refshauge is clearly incorrect already. But it gets even worse. An article in the Sydney Morning Herald of 27 February, which outlined Dr Refshauge's response to the document, stated:

The Deputy Premier and Minister for Health, Dr Refshauge, denied the AMA's allegations and accused it of rushing out a flawed report because it was politically motivated "in the context of the Federal election".

If that is not sufficient proof that Dr Refshauge viewed the actuarial report prepared by the AMA, I suggest that the words contained in a letter dated 14 March signed by Dr Eagleton are. The letter stated:

I wrote to the Premier on February 27, 1996, advising him that I would be more than happy to provide him with the material which had been received in the Branch which supported the AMA's claims but only if he agreed to reconvene the Joint Parliamentary Committee investigating waiting lists and the parlous state of the public hospital system. I wanted to ensure that the material provided by the AMA would not be buried in bureaucracy at the Department of Health but would be examined by an appropriate bipartisan parliamentary committee. The Premier's office has now replied that the Parliamentary Waiting Lists Committee will be reconvened . . .

I have not lied to the Parliament, and Dr Refshauge should retract his claim. If it is possible for Mr Carr to tell the truth, as is reported in the editorial in today's Sydney Morning Herald, it is time Dr Refshauge followed his leader and did the same.


The Hon. J. P. HANNAFORD (Leader of the Opposition) [11.46]: I move:

1. That a Select Committee be appointed to inquire into and report on:

(a) the decision making processes followed by the Government in its consideration of the Report of the Commission of Inquiry into the Lake Cowal gold mine and associated facilities at Cowal West, West Wyalong, proposed by North Gold (WA) Limited;

(b) the adequacy or otherwise of any technical or other advice or information that became available to the Government following the Commission of Inquiry.

2. That notwithstanding anything to the contrary in the Standing Orders:

(a) the Committee is to consist of the following Members: Mr Macdonald, Mr Moppett, Revd Mr Nile, Ms Saffin and the mover;

(b) Mr Hannaford be Chairman of the Committee.

3. That the Committee have leave to sit during any adjournment of the House; to adjourn from place to place; to make visits of inspection within New South Wales and other States and Territories of Australia; and have power to take evidence and to send for persons, papers, records and things; and to report from time to time.

4. That should the House stand adjourned and the Committee agree to any report before the House resumes sitting:

(a) the Committee have leave to send any such report, minutes of proceedings and evidence taken before it to the Clerk of the Parliaments;

(b) the documents be printed and published and the Clerk forthwith take such action as is necessary to give effect to the order of the House; and

(c) the documents be laid on the Table of the House at its next sitting.

5. That on receipt of a request from the Committee for funding, the Government immediately provide the Legislative Council with such additional funds that the Committee considers necessary for the conduct of its inquiry.

6. That the Committee report by 31 May 1996.

The select committee will have a limited role. It will examine the decision-making process adopted by the Government with regard to the Lake Cowal goldmine project following the receipt of the report of the commission of inquiry. The select committee will not reopen the commission of inquiry nor inquire into environmental issues relating to Lake Cowal. It will examine the decision-making process and report to the Parliament in relation to that process.

What was that decision-making process? The Government received the report of the commission of inquiry and various government departments prepared reports on the proposal. The proposed select committee will simply examine the material, prepare a chronology of events and provide a written report on the decision-making process. Then, if all the decision-making processes were properly followed, the House could be informed of that fact. If the processes were not properly followed, or if matters required further examination, the committee would so state. I emphasise, however, that it would be a narrow inquiry.

Secondly, the committee would report to the House on the adequacy or otherwise of technical or other advice or information that became available to the Government following the commission of inquiry. I will refer in more detail later in my comments to the fact that the Minister for Urban Affairs and Planning, the Hon. C. J. Knowles, made it clear - as is proper - that the report of the commission of inquiry was only one piece of material that he would take into account when considering the matter. The commission of inquiry, as will be outlined in this debate, was very detailed. Having looked at the report, the Government may
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have asked for further technical reports. Having received further technical reports, the Government may have arrived at a decision based upon those reports. The Opposition wants to know what other technical reports there were.

It is not the intention that this committee should seek to usurp, or even duplicate, the environmental considerations process; but the House must be advised either that the reports received by the Government, if there were any, were adequate, or that other matters should have been dealt with. I am amazed at what has happened with this matter since yesterday. The Government has literally gone into a tail spin about this motion - and a similar motion on the business paper - which requires the production of the documents. Why? What is the Government so concerned about that it is not prepared to make public files relating to the consideration of a major project in this State about which significant ecological considerations need to be addressed? Why is the Government reluctant to detail this process to the Parliament? Why is the Government in a tail spin?

The Hon. M. R. Egan: Who is in a spin? No-one is spinning.

The Hon. J. P. HANNAFORD: I concede that the Leader of the Government in this House is not in a tail spin. In a few moments I will read what he has had to say about the proposed mine. But why are other members of the Government in a tail spin about this proposal? What are they hiding?

The Hon. M. R. Egan: Get to my comments while I am here.

The Hon. J. P. HANNAFORD: I will get to the comments of the honourable member in a moment. What does the Government have to hide? What concerns it about its management of this matter? Were the reports not prepared at the time the decision was made? Were decisions made by the Premier not based upon careful consideration of all the information that was available? Did the Premier direct Minister Knowles to make a decision about this matter for political reasons, rather than for reasons relating to his statutory duties? What was the nature of the consultation between the Premier's office, the Hon. I. Cohen and the Hon. R. S. L. Jones before the decision-making process took place?

What diary notes are there that provide the detail of any conferences held on the matter? Perhaps the Government does not want to release the diary notes of the various secretaries who attended such meetings. What was the nature of the meeting between Mr Baxter, the Premier, Minister Knowles, Mr Hawker and others when the matter was discussed? What was the nature of the draft report produced at that meeting? What do the minutes of the meeting reveal? Were the decisions of the Premier at any such meeting or meetings taken for purely political reasons without regard to the technical reports that were available?

I can understand why last night and today members of the Government were lobbying furiously in an attempt to stop this motion being passed by this House. What is the history of this issue? Perhaps I should start with the views and the actions of the Minister for State and Regional Development. On 29 April 1995 the Daily Telegraph published an article under the heading "New South Wales Gold Mine to cost $180 million" in which the Minister is reported as saying:

The NSW Government has indicated its support for the mine.

Minister for State Development Michael Egan said yesterday arrangements were already in place to coordinate various government agencies in the approvals process.

This development was embraced by the Minister for State and Regional Development as being among a number that supported his claim that "development was on its way in New South Wales" - the State in which one was able to invest because of the Government's method of coordinating investment projects. Why is the Government afraid to make all the documents available? What timetable was adopted for the process? What meetings took place in the lead-up to the preparation of the final report? When was the final report drafted in relation to the decision-making process? The Government should not be afraid to make public all these matters. The State development Minister said, "We will coordinate the various government agencies in the approvals process so that there can be certainty for investors when they come to deal with major projects in New South Wales." Was the process that was followed the most appropriate process? The Sydney Morning Herald of 15 April, after the decision was taken, reported Jane Robertson, the head of the Minerals Council, in the following terms:

The decision by Premier, Bob Carr, to veto the proposed mine at Lake Cowal brings into focus the planning minefield that companies must negotiate before getting a mine up and running.

Her comments, which are perfectly proper, bring into focus a suggestion of interference, if such interference occurred. The position must be clarified to reassure the people of New South Wales that no such interference occurred. On Easter Sunday the Premier announced on television that the proposal would be vetoed - a pre-emptory decision by him; it was not referred to Cabinet. The Premier was not even prepared to talk about it to the Minister for Minerals and Resources, the Hon. R. D. Martin. He left it to Minister Knowles to inform Minister Martin what was happening. No opportunity was provided to enable technical information that might otherwise have been available to be canvassed. A pre-emptory decision was made by a Premier who needed to be seen, for political reasons, to be on the front foot on a political issue. If the Government wants to reassure the mining industry that it can invest with confidence in New South Wales, it can do that only if the mining industry is certain that the process is not corrupt. That is a major concern in the industry at present.

Pursuant to sessional orders business interrupted.


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The PRESIDENT: I draw the attention of honourable members to the presence in my gallery of a delegation from the Zhejiang Provincial People's Congress, led by Mr Xu Xingguan, Executive President of the Standing Committee of the Zhejiang Provincial People's Congress. I point out to honourable members that Zhejiang Province is the sister province of the State of Western Australia in like manner to which Guangdong has a sister relationship with New South Wales.



The Hon. VIRGINIA CHADWICK: Has the Attorney General, and Minister for Industrial Relations sought to intervene to resolve the industrial dispute that has led to the ban on quality assurance reviews in the Department of School Education?

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: The extent of my involvement in that matter has been by way of discussion with and/or advice to the Minister for Education and Training. The honourable member is aware that this is a live question about teachers' salaries and the like, and I have had discussions with the Minister and his staff about this ban on quality assurance.


The Hon. VIRGINIA CHADWICK: I ask a supplementary question. Many of the 67 officers employed in the quality assurance unit of the Department of School Education are senior executive service officers who have not been able to work since October last year because of the bans. Is the Attorney General, and Minister for Industrial Relations able to inform honourable members what those officers have been doing since October and how much it has cost the taxpayers?

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: As presently advised, I cannot. I will refer that matter to the Minister responsible for a response.


The Hon. ANN SYMONDS: I direct my question without notice to the Attorney General, and Minister for Industrial Relations. What is the Government doing to address the issue of the management of HIV-AIDS in the workplace?

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: I thank the Hon. Ann Symonds for her very pertinent and important question. The Government and the WorkCover Authority have given anxious consideration to this issue. The WorkCover Authority has produced a code of practice for health care workers and other people in the workplace at risk of contracting HIV, hepatitis and other blood borne pathogens. The code of practice is a practical guide for the identification, assessment and control of occupational health and safety risks associated with blood or body fluids. Recent research has found that one in four health workers in Australian hospitals who were unsafely exposed to blood borne diseases such as HIV and hepatitis while at work did not report the incident. Under New South Wales occupational health and safety legislation all such incidents must be reported and appropriate measures must be taken to control the risks involved.

The code produced by the WorkCover Authority is designed to help prevent the transmission of HIV and hepatitis in the workplace. It will be particularly useful to those workers most at risk, such as health care workers, police, prison officers and emergency response workers. Employers should take all practical steps to ensure that consultation takes place with employees and their representatives on the development and establishment of safety procedures. Under the Occupational Health and Safety Act 1984 employers have the responsibility of ensuring a healthy and safe workplace. The code came into effect in March 1996 and was developed by WorkCover in consultation with industry groups and the Department of Health.

The publication, which sets out the code and other related information, is available through WorkCover offices. The booklet is titled "HIV and Other Blood Borne Pathogens in the Workplace". I remind the House that under recent amendments to the WorkCover legislation dealt with in this House in December the Government provided lump sum entitlements for workers who contract HIV-AIDS in the course of their employment. That was an innovative and appropriate means to address compensation for workers in that unfortunate and tragic situation.


The Hon. J. P. HANNAFORD: I refer the Minister for Community Services, Minister for Aged Services, and Minister for Disability Services to the question asked yesterday about compliance with public employment circular No. 96/21 relating to the evaluation of chief executive officer positions, and to his failure to answer the question. Will the Minister advise this House whether he gave approval for the removal and unattachment of the director-general of his department? If the Minister did not give approval, has he sought to ascertain whether the Acting Minister gave such approval and was such approval forthcoming? If there was no approval from the Acting Minister, who gave ministerial approval for the removal and unattachment of the director-general?

The Hon. R. D. DYER: In previous answers to this House regarding these matters I have disclosed that while I remained in hospital I had a conversation with the Premier. I identified the
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content of that conversation. The matters raised by the Leader of the Opposition are the subject of a preliminary inquiry by the Independent Commission Against Corruption. Yesterday morning I was interviewed regarding the matters before the ICAC. It is my intention that the matters be resolved by the Independent Commission Against Corruption, which, as its name implies, is an independent body set up under the Greiner Government and one presumably that the Opposition still supports. It is my view that the matters in question should be inquired into by that body. I have given a full and truthful statement to the Independent Commission Against Corruption about those matters. The matter will stand pending the outcome of the preliminary investigation by the Independent Commission Against Corruption.

The Hon. Virginia Chadwick: You still have not answered the question.

The Hon. R. D. DYER: I need no advice from any member opposite as to how I should answer questions in this House.


The Hon. J. P. HANNAFORD: I ask a supplementary question. In view of the Minister's refusal to answer the question and his indication that he wishes the matter to be investigated by the Independent Commission Against Corruption, is it his desire that the Independent Commission Against Corruption should therefore proceed immediately to a full inquiry of the matter?

The Hon. R. D. DYER: As the Leader of the Opposition should well know, it is not within my discretion, power or control to direct the Independent Commission Against Corruption as to how it should conduct an inquiry. Opposition members know that the Independent Commission Against Corruption under its own statute has extensive powers to inquire into matters referred to it, which is what it is doing with this matter. For the Leader of the Opposition to suggest that I would have any role in deciding whether the Independent Commission Against Corruption conducts a public inquiry is fatuous.


The Hon. A. B. MANSON: Will the Minister for Community Services, Minister for Aged Services, and Minister for Disability Services inform the House of his knowledge of a letter from Mr Michael Williamson, State Secretary of the Health and Related Employees Association, relating to disciplinary charges of staff at Peat Island?

The Hon. R. D. DYER: I advise the House that until yesterday afternoon I was not aware of the existence of a letter referred to in another place yesterday during question time. As honourable members would be aware, I was on sick leave at the time the letter was received in my office. To be specific, it was received in my office on 20 March. As is the normal practice with correspondence, the letter was despatched by my policy adviser, Ms Constantina Dertimanis, to the department. I stress that the letter was despatched directly to the department. The Acting Minister, the Hon. Gabrielle Harrison, did not see the letter.

[Interruption]

If members of the Opposition are a little patient, I will say something that was not said yesterday in the other place. An acknowledgment of that correspondence with a laser signature of the Acting Minister for Community Services, the Hon. Gabrielle Harrison, was despatched to Mr Williamson on 2 April. The significance of referring to the laser signature on an acknowledgment is that those acknowledgments emanate from the department and are not signed by the Minister or acting Minister of the day. The relevant point is that the correspondence does not come to the attention of the Minister.

The Hon. R. T. M. Bull: The Minister is trying to have it both ways.

The Hon R. D. DYER: I am not having anything both ways. I am referring to the correspondence from Michael Williamson to me as Minister for Community Services. The Leader of the Opposition and the Hon. Virginia Chadwick, both former Ministers for community services, know well that it has been the longstanding practice of the Department of Community Services to send out acknowledgments to correspondence, of which there are many hundreds each month, by the use of a laser signature.

The Hon. J. F. Ryan: Something about Peat Island would not have been drawn to your attention?

The Hon. R. D. DYER: It was not drawn to my attention because -

[Interruption]

The PRESIDENT: Order! Question time is not a process of interrogatories, as I have said before. The interjections will diminish considerably and the Minister will please get on with his answer.

The Hon. R. D. DYER: The point I am making regarding the correspondence from Mr Williamson is that it did not come to my attention because I was absent on sick leave and it did not come to the attention of the acting Minister because of the established procedures within the department. Upon hearing of the letter yesterday following question time in another place, I immediately instructed the Department of Community Services to prepare a response rejecting any suggestion that disciplinary proceedings against staff at Peat Island be postponed or waived. I have signed a reply to Mr Williamson's correspondence this morning in the following terms:

Dear Mr Williamson

I refer to your correspondence of 18 March 1996 requesting my intervention into disciplinary inquiries which have arisen from allegations about the mistreatment of residents and misconduct of staff at the Department of Community Services' Peat Island Centre.

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In relation to the Association's specific request to me, that all charges be dropped, I must advise you in the strongest terms that it is not possible to accede to this. Indeed it would be most improper for me to do so.

The steps to be followed in the disciplinary process are contained in the Public Sector Management Act 1988 and its regulations. The provisions of the Act ensure that the principles of justice and proper procedure are closely followed in disciplinary matters such as these and that staff are treated fairly and equally. The process must be rigorously followed and provides no flexibility to depart from due process. Variance from the process would make the outcome invalid at law.

I trust that this clarifies both the legal position and my own position as Minister in relation to this matter.

Yours sincerely

The Hon. Dr B. P. V. Pezzutti: It is enough to make you sick, isn't it?

The Hon R. D. DYER: What is?

The Hon. Dr B. P. V. Pezzutti: The whole thing.

The Hon. R. D. DYER: Yes. Quite frankly, I cannot believe that, having been flat on my back in hospital at the relevant time, I am being subjected to so much questioning. In addition to the letter that was despatched to Mr Williamson this morning -

The Hon. Patricia Forsythe: Did you sign it?

The Hon. R. D. DYER: Yes, it was personally signed by me. For the information of honourable members, four staff members have been charged already. One staff member has had charges dismissed, a further staff member has resigned, and investigations are continuing in relation to four staff. I assure the House and remind honourable members that I was the one who, in a political sense, launched the various investigations into Peat Island, of which there were six. It is absolutely ludicrous to suggest that I or any other member of the Government would not pursue the recommendations of an inquiry that I, as Minister, instigated.


The Hon. A. G. CORBETT: I ask the Minister for Community Services, Minister for Aged Services and Minister for Disability Services, representing the Deputy Premier, Minister for Health, and Minister for Aboriginal Affairs a question without notice. Will the Minister give consideration to a scheme by which families who must regularly visit or take their children to hospital over an extended period are given some discount on parking fees?

The Hon. R. D. DYER: I shall be delighted to refer that question to my colleague the Minister for Health. Clearly, in some circumstances it could become a burden on a family if regular attendance is required at a hospital. I shall communicate the Minister's response to the honourable member as soon as I receive it.

The Hon. Patricia FORSYTHE: My question without notice is directed to the Minister for Community Services, Minister for Aged Services, and Minister for Disability Services. While the Minister was on sick leave were any members of his personal staff aware of the Premier's actions in unattaching the Minister's director-general from his position as head of the Minister's department? Did such a person or persons pay the Minister the courtesy of telephoning him to advise him of what was occurring? Was the Minister's office or his chief of staff, Mr Greg Smith, involved in any way in the process?

The Hon. M. R. Egan: On a point of order. I am reminded of the points of order that were taken by the former Leader of the Opposition when he was Leader of the Government on the matter of anticipation. On today's Notices of Motion and Orders of the Day appears a notice of motion from the Leader of the Opposition that there be laid on the table of the House by 23 April 1996 all papers, including transcripts of conversations, et cetera. I make the point that when the Independent Commission Against Corruption was established, the then commissioner, Mr Temby, went to the Government and the Opposition - we have changed places since, and that will remain the case for a long time - and received an assurance from both sides that when matters were before that commission they would not be pursued in the political arena. It is in line with the commitment given by the former Government and by this Government.

The PRESIDENT: Order! The Leader of the Government will state his point of order.

The Hon. M. R. Egan: I have two points of order. First, the Opposition has reneged on an undertaking it gave to the Independent Commission Against Corruption. Honourable members can never trust the word of Opposition members. Second, the matter about which Opposition members are now asking questions has already been placed on notice. The question therefore breaches the rule of anticipation.

The PRESIDENT: Order! No points of order are involved.

The Hon. R. D. DYER: These matters are currently the subject of a preliminary inquiry of the Independent Commission Against Corruption. I have nothing to add to previous answers I have given.


The Hon. PATRICIA FORSYTHE: I ask a supplementary question. Will the Minister tell the House which section of the Independent Commission Against Corruption Act precludes him from answering these questions?

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The Hon. R. D. Dyer: On a point of order. It is a longstanding precedent in this House that the asking of a question calling for the expression of a legal opinion is out of order.

The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not a question of precedent. However, it is customary for Ministers who do not wish to voice legal opinions to simply say that it is not the role of Ministers to give legal advice.

The Hon. R. D. DYER: Mr President, if I may say so, you made the point succinctly. It is not my role to give advice to the Hon. Patricia Forsythe about the provisions of the Independent Commission Against Corruption Act. It is well known that the former Government enacted that legislation. However, as a matter of convenience, utility and public policy, irrespective of the provisions of the Independent Commission Against Corruption Act, it is obvious that the ICAC should be allowed to do its job unimpeded by the Opposition's attempts to muddy the waters in regard to this matter.


The Hon. JANELLE SAFFIN: My question without notice is directed to the Attorney General, and Minister for Industrial Relations. What action is the Government taking to provide greater protection to women who are subject to domestic violence?

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: The present scheme pertaining to domestic violence orders is worth defending. There is probably bipartisan support for that scheme, but I think it needs some fine tuning and adjustment. The Government will introduce in due course some amendments to the domestic violence system, which I anticipate will find broad support in the community, in particular, among those who regrettably have to use the violence protection system to protect their lives in public and in their homes. The Government will propose a number of recommendations to enable domestic violence orders to be achieved more expeditiously and to enhance the protection of those applying for them.

The Government shares the general public concern that the perpetrators of violent acts in domestic situations - usually, of course, husbands - should be ordered from the family home to ensure the safety of the victims of domestic violence who, of course, are usually the wives and children of the offender. The Government recognises that women need effective access to the court system if they are to use apprehended violence orders to provide them with protection from violence or the fear of violence in the home. In order to address the pressing needs of victims of domestic violence the Government is proceeding with a number of legislative and administrative initiatives that will greatly enhance existing mechanisms in the fight against domestic violence.

I will soon introduce legislation in this House that will contain a number of important reforms. That legislation will demonstrate the Government's commitment to the protection of victims. The bill will, among other things, require magistrates to justify their decisions when they decline to exclude violent offenders from the family home by giving reasons for not making such exclusion orders when they are sought by the applicant. Other amendments to the Crimes Act will ensure that all terms of telephone interim apprehended violence orders, including any orders excluding a defendant from premises, will remain uniformly in force for a period of up to 14 days, within which time the matter will be brought before a court for confirmation or dismissal.

The Government's proposed legislation will also require police to seek automatically AVOs on behalf of all victims of stalking and intimidation. At present, when a person is charged with stalking and intimidation, the police are only obliged to seek an AVO if the offender and the victim are in a domestic relationship. The Government's proposal will extend the availability of AVOs to all victims of stalking. It will not be a decisive test as to whether there is in existence a domestic relationship. The Crimes Act will also be amended to permit the Director of Public Prosecutions to appear in AVO proceedings. At present the DPP cannot appear in such proceedings, he has no power to act on appeals from AVOs and he cannot advise police in relation to those proceedings.

The Crimes Act will also be amended to require the District Court to consider a complainant's fear and apprehension at the time an AVO was originally sought. The court currently assesses the complainant's fear and apprehension only at the time it hears the case, which, of course, could be two or three months after the application was originally made. The Government, apart from introducing measures to bolster legislative protection of victims of domestic violence, has also moved to enhance women's access to the court system in domestic violence matters. An amount of $1.5 million has been allocated to fund a statewide scheme, the domestic violence court assistance program. The Legal Aid Commission administers this program and has called for applications from organisations to apply for funding under the scheme. Submissions are currently being assessed and the results will be known by the end of this month. The Government anticipates that more than 40 court assistance schemes will operate in local courts across New South Wales. This scheme will complement existing services provided by the commission for victims of domestic violence which include representing complainants in apprehended violence order matters, and providing grants of legal aid to applicants in such matters.

The Domestic Violence Advocacy Service, an independent community legal centre, is directly funded by the Legal Aid Commission. This service receives more than $250,000 annually to provide telephone advice and referrals to appropriate agencies and legal representation for women. Funding has also been provided by the Government to establish the first Aboriginal women's legal resource centre in Australia. A top priority for the
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centre is violence against Aboriginal women. The centre's inner city base will be fully operational by the end of June, and during the next year other centres will be established in rural areas.

The Legal Aid Commission also works closely with community legal centres to provide duty lawyer services in local courts which have a high incidence of apprehended violence applications. The Government's important legislative and administrative initiatives are a concrete demonstration of our concern to ensure that effective mechanisms exist in our legal system to safeguard the interests of victims of domestic violence. The New South Wales Government will continue to listen to the voices of victims of domestic violence and wherever possible provide support through the provision of appropriate legal protection and support services.


The Hon. R. T. M. BULL: I address my question to the Minister for Community Services, Minister for Aged Services, and Minister for Disability Services. What assurance can the Minister give the House that complaints made to his office, and dealt with by the ministerial correspondence unit, were not compromised as a consequence of the staff member known as T7 being employed there? What assurances can the Minister give that any investigation commenced as a consequence of T7's correspondence was not compromised? Has the Minister ordered a complete review of all such investigations?

The Hon. R. D. DYER: Last Tuesday I was asked a question by Reverend the Hon. F. J. Nile concerning T7 and as I recall I gave a detailed response to him regarding that matter, including my concern that T7 was found to be an officer of my department, given the unsavoury activities in which he was clearly involved. When it came to my knowledge that T7 was an officer of the department and also an employee within the ministerial correspondence unit, I was concerned. It must be recognised that T7 was not the officer in charge of the ministerial correspondence unit. I very much doubt that he was in a position to compromise any response prepared for my signature during the period he was within the department. The Department of Community Service has established a record security and management task force. The task force is reviewing the security of all the department's client files and will report back to me with recommendations as a matter of urgency. Unless I am mistaken, evidence was given, or at least it has come to my knowledge if evidence was not given, that it was the practice of T7 to stay back later than other employees. That is a matter of concern to me.

The Hon. J. P. Hannaford: It is a great concern in that particular unit, is it not?

The Hon. R. D. DYER: It is a matter of concern in that unit. However, I believe that the primary purpose of T7 remaining late was not to fiddle with correspondence being prepared for my signature or the signature of the Minister of the day but rather to access confidential client information which would evidently give him access to young children with whom he could seek to perpetrate his paedophilic activities. It is clearly unsatisfactory that T7 was an employee of the department and an officer attached for some time, although not always, in the ministerial correspondence unit.

The Hon. R. T. M. Bull: Is he now unattached?

The Hon. R. D. DYER: I gave an answer earlier in the week to the effect that he has gone, and I can assure the House he is not lamented by me.

The Hon. R. T. M. Bull: Is this issue of T7 an issue that you discussed with the Independent Commission Against Corruption?

The Hon. R. D. DYER: The Hon. R. T. M. Bull is now making flippant interjections.

The Hon. R. T. M. Bull: No, I think you are selectively answering questions.

The Hon. R. D. DYER: If the honourable member does not want me to answer his question on this occasion I may as well sit down. However, the Hon. R. T. M. Bull should know, and perhaps he does not, that T7 gave evidence before the royal commission and not before the ICAC. Much publicity has been given to the evidence of T7. In addition to what I have said about the record security and management task force that has been established to review the security of client of files, I also indicate to the House that the Department of Community Services - and so far as that is concerned, myself as Minister - will continue, and is committed to, working with the royal commission in whatever way is appropriate to address the specific issues as they are brought to notice before the royal commission and to ensure that all precautions are in place to protect clients of the Department of Corrective Services.

The Deputy Leader of the Opposition can be absolutely sure that I view this matter very seriously. I am very distressed that this person was found to be an officer of the department and furthermore an officer of the ministerial correspondence unit. However, I shall leave no stone unturned to ensure that such breaches of security in regard to sensitive client information, as might have occurred in the past at the instigation of T7, are not allowed to occur in future.


The Hon. J. R. JOHNSON: My question without notice is directed to the Attorney General, and Minister for Industrial Relations. Is the Minister aware of a recent decision of the Industrial Court sitting at Wollongong involving Southern Asphalters Pty Limited? Is the decision in line with the Government's policy of cracking down on unsafe work places?

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The Hon. J. W. SHAW: There has been a recent decision by His Honour Justice Hungerford of the Industrial Court of New South Wales delivered at Wollongong. His Honour imposed a penalty on the defendant employer, Southern Asphalters Pty Limited, of $85,000. The tragic incident occurred on 1 November 1993 when two men, a 20-year-old trainee operator and a 31-year-old batching supervisor, sustained serious burns to 95 per cent of their bodies. There was a significant breach of the Occupational Health and Safety Act 1984. The company pleaded guilty and the question before the court concerned penalty. The penalty imposed by the court would seem to indicate the court's view that the system of work operated by that company was inherently unsafe.

I hope that penalty brings home the need for employers and persons concerned in management to give greater priority to the safety of employees and members of the public in work places. The penalty reflects the serious nature of the offence and the tragic consequences of the defendant's failure. Employers in our community need to appreciate that section 15 of the Occupational Health and Safety Act provides an absolute obligation to maintain a safe working environment. There are no qualifications on that obligation. Employers are required by law, subject to serious penalties if they breach it, to maintain the safety of the working environment. It is true that certain defences lie under other provisions of the Act, such as section 65, when it is deemed by the court not to be reasonably practicable to observe the full measure of safety. The primary obligation needs to be stressed. The judgment of Mr Justice Hungerford in the case concerning Southern Asphalters Proprietary Limited is illustrative of the serious view taken by judges of breaches of that important obligation to maintain a safe workplace.


Reverend the Hon. F. J. NILE: I ask the Treasurer, representing the Premier, a question without notice. Will 114 spent nuclear fuel rods be transferred from the Lucas Heights research reactor by road and sea, by sealed safe container, to a uranium reprocessing plant in Dounreay, Scotland, where the enriched uranium will be safely extracted? Have Greenpeace radicals planned a series of dangerous disruptive actions to prevent the safe transfer of those 114 uranium rods by stopping the road transport, and/or stopping the container being loaded on to the ship, and/or preventing the container ship leaving port? What action has the Government taken to prevent Greenpeace creating a serious risk to public safety and public health so that the uranium rods can safely leave Lucas Heights and do not remain an ongoing potential risk arising from terrorist-style activity in New South Wales?

The Hon. M. R. EGAN: I am not aware of the issue to which Reverend the Hon. F. J. Nile has referred, but I will seek an answer to his question.

The Hon. J. H. JOBLING: I address my question without notice to the Minister for Community Services, Minister for Aged Services, and Minister for Disability Services, representing the Minister for Fair Trading, and Minister for Women. Is it correct that at the inquiry into the conduct of the Building Services Corporation, consumers were advised that if entitled to compensation their future consumer rights would not be affected? Is it correct that consumers were advised at the inquiry that offers of compensation would be made unconditional? Why has the Building Services Corporation now made offers of reimbursement with conditions designed to stop any further claims?

The Hon. R. D. DYER: I am unaware of the detail of those matters alleged in the question by the Hon. J. H. Jobling. However, I shall be delighted to refer the matter to my colleague, the Minister for Fair Trading, for an early response.


The Hon. I. M. MACDONALD: I address my question without notice to the Treasurer. Did misleading statements about a possible increase in the price of milk appear in the Sunday Telegraph on 31 March? Have those statements led to concern being expressed in the community? Can the Minister give the real facts?

The Hon. M. R. EGAN: I thank the Hon. I. M. Macdonald for his pertinent and important question. It is true that a report appeared in the Sunday Telegraph on 31 March claiming that milk prices would rise by 10¢ a litre because of a forced recycling scheme to be implemented by the Government. As honourable members know, a litre of milk sells for a maximum of $1.13, although I can buy it for $1.10. Sunday Telegraph readers were told that the dairy industry expected a price increase of nearly 10 per cent on one of the most basic food items and a staple item on any family shopping list. Despite the fact that the report was wrong, it has caused a great deal of concern in the community, particularly among low-income earners. It has also caused a great deal of embarrassment to the dairy industry. The Government has discovered that the Deputy Leader of the Opposition was the originator of this fabrication and that he attempted to hide his duplicity behind an industry association.

The Hon. R. T. M. Bull: Read what was said in the House yesterday.

The Hon. M. R. EGAN: Do not get so upset. This is the greatest prominence he has had since he appeared in the People, the Communist Party Hanoi daily. The Sunday Telegraph article entitled "Industry predicts milk price rise" states:

Milk prices will rise by up to 10 cents because of a forced recycling scheme, the dairy industry says.

The Executive Director of the Association of Liquidpaperboard Carton Manufacturers, Mr Gerard van Rijswijk, is quoted in the article as saying that milk prices will rise 10¢ a litre.

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The Hon. R. T. M. Bull: No, 5¢ to 10¢.

The Hon. M. R. EGAN: All right, 5¢ to 10¢, if the Deputy Leader of the Opposition wants it his way. Representatives of the dairy industry approached the Minister for Agriculture, Mr Richard Amery, and the dairy industry made it clear that it was not the source of the story and indicated its embarrassment at the comments attributed to its spokesman. Where did this scaremongering come from? A letter from Mr van Rijswijk to the Deputy Leader of the Opposition, which I provide to all honourable members, makes it clear that the story came from the office of the Deputy Leader of the Opposition. The letter reads in part:

Dear Richard,

The attached article appeared in the Sunday Telegraph over the weekend and seems to have created the impression that milk prices will increase "by up to 10 cents because of a forced recycling scheme". The comments were attributed to me, although I have made no statement to the media, nor issued a media release on the subject. As these statements appeared following our discussions, it would appear that they emanated from your office.

At no time has there been the slightest suggestion that the government's waste management legislation would lead to a general price increase of 10¢ a litre.

Clearly the honourable member or his staff have knowingly misrepresented the position of the dairy industry to score a cheap political point. I assure the House that the claim that milk prices will rise because of any new waste management policy is without foundation. The cost of individual milk packages is incorporated in the retail price of those packages and is not spread across all milk prices. The Deputy Leader of the Opposition has been shown to be twice duplicitous. He will never again get a mention in People, the Hanoi Communist Party daily. He will be scrubbed as an unreliable source.

[Interruption]

The DEPUTY-PRESIDENT (The Hon. D. J. Gay): Order! I do not need any help from the Hon. I. M. Macdonald, nor from the Hon. Jan Burnswoods. I call the Hon. Jan Burnswoods to order.

The Hon. M. R. EGAN: Since the Government came to office, increases in milk prices have been consistent with increases in the consumer price index. As a result of the Government's actions this State has the cheapest milk prices in Australia, outside Canberra. I call on the shadow minister for agriculture to apologise for his disgraceful actions. Instead of peddling lies to the Sunday Telegraph he should stick to the Hanoi Communist daily, the People.


The Hon. J. M. SAMIOS: I address my question without notice to the Attorney General, and Minister for Industrial Relations, representing the Minister for Police. Is the Minister aware of the serious concerns of Korean and Indochinese shopkeepers at the alarming number of robberies and break-ins of their premises in the Strathfield electorate? What steps are being taken by the Minister to provide sufficient bilingual and other suitably qualified police, to better ensure that the administration of law and order correctly reflects the needs of our multicultural society?

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: I will refer that question to the Minister for Police for a reply.


The Hon. DOROTHY ISAKSEN: Can the Attorney General, and Minister for Industrial Relations assure the House that interviews with suspects are now required to be electronically recorded by police and that appropriate equipment is in place to facilitate that requirement?

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: An important innovation in the criminal justice process is the requirement implemented last year that interviews of suspects must be electronically recorded by the police. That great development will mark 1995 as an important part of the evolution of our criminal law. When persons are suspected of involvement in serious criminal offences their interviews must be electronically recorded unless a reasonable excuse exists for not doing so. Honourable members may remember that the first bill I presented to this House as Attorney General was the Evidence Bill 1995. That was a great general legal innovation and a great achievement. The Evidence Act 1995 incorporated relevant amendments to the Crimes Act, and commenced operation on 1 September 1995.

The effect of that initiative is that statements taken by police of interviews that do not comply will be inadmissible in criminal proceedings against the suspect. My understanding is that the new regime is operating satisfactorily to the benefit of those concerned and to our system of justice as a whole. The anticipated benefits of electronic recording include introducing an element of accountability into interrogation procedures; removing the danger of verballing and similar problems, which have come sharply into focus as a result of disclosures by the police royal commission; and decreasing the number and length of the court procedure known as voir dire, which was designed to ascertain whether a confession was given voluntarily or whether malpractice was involved in obtaining the confession which rendered it inadmissible in evidence.

Voir dires in criminal trials are often lengthy, involving vast amounts of time spent cross-examining police and other witnesses to ascertain whether the alleged admission is in truth free and voluntary and should be admitted. Voir dires, trials within trials, should be minimised as a result of electronic recording of interviews with suspects. The anticipated benefits of electronic recording also include enhancing the ability of courts to assess the accuracy of testimony and credibility of witnesses, and increasing the number of guilty pleas being entered, which will result in fewer trials. After all,
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if an interview is electronically recorded it is undeniable, and one can reasonably expect the number of guilty pleas to increase because no opportunity is available to seriously challenge the veracity of the interview process.

The anticipated benefits include reducing police time in giving evidence in court and deterring false allegations of improper behaviour by police. Electronic recording of interviews is a mutually beneficial procedure. It benefits the police, although there was some police resistance to its introduction, and the criminal justice system. For the program to operate satisfactorily it is necessary to have in place proper equipment to allow interviews to be recorded. I am informed that electronic recording equipment is installed in 239 police stations, 143 courts and 10 office locations of the Director of Public Prosecutions. That means that it is now possible to electronically record all interviews of persons suspected of an indictable offence. The introduction of electronic recording of police interviews began under the former Labor Government and its full potential will be achieved under this Labor Government. It has been a great step forward in the criminal justice system.


The Hon. ELISABETH KIRKBY: My question without notice is directed to the Minister for Community Services, Minister for Aged Services, and Minister for Disability Services, representing the Deputy Premier, and Minister for Health. Is the Minister aware of an article in today's Sydney Morning Herald highlighting the alarming spread of hepatitis in Australia? Is he further aware that researchers have discovered seven different strains of hepatitis in Australia, with more yet to be identified? Is it a fact that hepatitis C is now the most common infectious disease in adults, infecting more Australians than HIV-AIDS? How many known cases of hepatitis in its various forms have been recorded in New South Wales over the past decade? Will the Government implement a wide-ranging health care campaign to tackle the virus?

The Hon. R. D. DYER: Clearly the various strains of hepatitis are a serious health problem throughout Australia. The honourable member asked detailed but important questions. I shall refer those questions to my colleague the Minister for Health so that a detailed response can be provided to her.


The Hon. Dr B. P. V. PEZZUTTI: Can the Attorney General, and Minister for Industrial Relations tell the House the cost of the report into dispute resolution and workers compensation being conducted by Sir Laurence Street? The Attorney General told the House on Tuesday that he had requested the report.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: As at present advised I cannot tell the House the cost of the report. I should think that all honourable members believe that we were getting value for money from Sir Laurence Street in his pursuit of a conciliation model for the workers compensation system. I understand - and I am sure that I am correct - that WorkCover reached an agreement with Sir Laurence about daily fees and the like, and I am confident that it is an entirely appropriate and reasonable arrangement.


The Hon. R. S. L. JONES: My question without notice is directed to the Minister for Community Services, Minister for Aged Services, and Minister for Disability Services, representing the Minister for Agriculture. When does the Minister intend to release a green paper on reform of the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act? Who or what is causing the delay?

The Hon. R. D. DYER: I shall be delighted to refer that question to my colleague the Minister for Agriculture, and I undertake to provide the Hon. R. S. L. Jones with a response as soon as possible.


The Hon. E. M. OBEID: My question without notice is addressed to the Minister for Community Services, Minister for Aged Services, and Minister for Disability Services. What changes have been made recently to an important advisory committee on issues about homelessness?

The Hon. R. D. DYER: The ministerial advisory committee on the supported accommodation assistance program and the crisis accommodation program is an important mechanism for community input on policies and programs affecting the homeless. A significant principle underlying the Government's approach to homelessness is recognition of the rights of homeless people. We aim to help them to become as independent as possible and to ensure that they have access to community resources. Community participation in these programs is an important element in the Government's social justice approach.

My colleague the Minister for Housing and I are extremely pleased about the level of interest shown in the advisory committee by community groups and individuals. The Minister for Housing has responsibility for the crisis accommodation program while the joint Commonwealth-State supported accommodation assistance program is administered in my portfolio. A broad range of people have been appointed to the ministerial advisory committee, which goes by the somewhat confusing acronym SAAP-CAP-MAC. I am confident that these people, drawn from both metropolitan and regional New South Wales, will provide the Government with valuable information and advice on community views. The chairperson of the ministerial advisory committee is Ms Annabel Senior, chief executive officer of Relationships
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Australia (New South Wales). Ms Senior brings to the committee her considerable experience in social planning and policy.

I congratulate the members of the ministerial advisory committee. For the benefit of honourable members, the committee members are Kay Elson from Sydney City Mission; Eileen Levitt from St Vincent de Paul; Yvonne Ship, the director of Cliff Cottages; Barbara Kilpatrick from the Warringah Womens Resource Centre; Rod Plant of Shelter New South Wales Co-op Limited; Mark Lack from the Bankstown Youth Development Service Incorporated; Patricia Fogarty from St Vincent de Paul in Deniliquin; Vivienne Llewellyn of Centacare; Enid Clegg from Wollongong Emergency Family Housing; Yvonne Wilson from the Kulkunna Cottage Womens Refuge in Griffith and Janice Poulson from the Manning District Emergency Accommodation Service. It is important that the committee has the opportunity to be involved in important social programs, such as the supported accommodation assistance program and the crisis accommodation program. I look forward to receiving advice on policy and planning from this well credentialed group of people.

The Hon. M. R. EGAN: I suggest that if honourable members have further questions, they put them on notice.


The Hon. M. R. EGAN: On 18 October 1995 the Hon. R. S. L. Jones asked me a question without notice regarding public housing. The Minister for Housing has provided the following response:

The Department of Housing has always sought to meet the critical housing need of people on low incomes in locations that maintain their community networks and support. This does not always translate to an even mixing of public housing throughout every suburb, but it does mean that the Department will seek an appropriate presence with value for money in most communities in NSW.

The Hon. M. R. EGAN: On 25 October 1995 the Hon. R. S. L. Jones asked me a question without notice regarding the East Circular Quay land acquisition. The Premier has provided the following response:

In 1994 the Prime Minister made an offer to the previous Government of $150M to contribute to the removal of the Cahill Expressway and provision of an underground railway. The offer was conditional on Circular Quay Railway Station and the City Circle line between Wynyard and St James Stations being relocated underground. A further condition was that the Commonwealth Government would receive the ownership rights to all the land sites released by the removal of the Cahill Expressway.

The Prime Minister's offer was not taken up by the previous Government. Moreover, the funding could not have been transferred to acquire the CML site at East Circular Quay as it was not offered as a grant to the State.

There has been an extensive process of public debate about the redevelopment of the East Circular Quay site, including a public ideas competition.

The Colonial Terraces Ltd (formerly CML) development of East Circular Quay, the "Bennelong Centre", was granted approval in September 1994. The development is proceeding in accordance with the planning guidelines for the site, established after a period of public consultation.

The design guidelines and principles for the development of the site include:

•maintaining an urban edge to the eastern side of Circular Quay and providing a sense of containment to the Quay;

•limiting the height of new buildings;

•using public land to achieve reduced building heights and enhanced public space; and

•providing specific view corridors, including from Circular Quay West either over or between buildings on the site to Government House and the Botanic Gardens.

The developer has purchased the roadway at Circular Quay East to allow pedestrian access and public space to be closely integrated into the development, and to assist in keeping the overall height of the buildings down by building on part of the former roadway.

Given the progress made on the planning and development of East Circular Quay, and the fact that site works have commenced, it is not practical now to pursue alternative proposals for this site.

The Hon. M. R. EGAN: On 25 October 1995 the Hon. Elisabeth Kirkby asked me a question without notice regarding regional development. The Minister for Agriculture has provided the following response:

Publicity released by Australian Co-operative Foods Limited (ACF) has claimed that the government has backed down on milk prices. There has been no backdown, because there was no commitment to raise milk prices to the level the processors wanted.

During the first week of the Carr Government representatives of the dairy industry wanted a rise in the price of milk to offset the effects drought was having on farm costs. They had sought a price increase from the previous coalition government but this was rejected.

There were no commitments that bound the Carr Government to an increase in the price of milk.

A rise of 2.4 cents per litre in the price paid to dairy farmers was approved and Milk Price Structure Review Committee was established in accordance with the requirements of the Dairy Industry Act. This Committee was chaired by Mr J Holloway, Commissioner for Consumer Affairs and consisted of representative drawn from consumers and members of the industry.

This Committee agreed that a formula based on the CPI minus a productivity factor could be used to set future milk prices. The government has accepted this recommendation. The Committee could not agree on a base price from which future changes would be calculated.
The most recent price changes set this base price. In setting this base price the government honoured a commitment to keep all government approved price rises and other charges within cost of living increases. It also took the opportunity to correct an imbalance in the farm price for milk.

This is now the new base price and all future increases will be determined by the CPI formula recommended by the Price Review Committee.

The government has some sympathy with the arguments presented by ACF in relation to their investment plans but in the past ACF has been able to pass on cost increases to the consumer by going to government to get a cost plus increase.

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This will change when the milk market is deregulated after June 1998. ACF will find the competition in the market is likely to be harder on them than a government approved price mechanism.

The Hon. M. R. EGAN: On 21 November 1995 the Hon. R. S. L. Jones asked me a question without notice regarding the Sydney Showground site development. The Minister for Transport has provided the following response:

As part of the assessment of the proposed film studio development at the showground a traffic and transport study has recommended measures to be taken to mitigate the effect of private vehicle traffic and promote access by public transport, walking and cycling.

Opportunities to retain the flexibility for future mass transit enhancements, including light rail, in the vicinity will be pursued where they arise.

The Hon. M. R. EGAN: On 21 November 1995 the Hon. Elaine Nile asked me a question without notice regarding Claymore youth services. The Minister for Housing has provided the following response:

The Department of Housing is actively seeking to address the needs of young people within Claymore. A "Whole of Government" approach is being adopted to address these issues including the advancing of the Estate Improvement Program. This will not only vastly improve the quality of life for the residents, but also increase local employment opportunities. Where possible, long term unemployed people will be given opportunities to work under the Commonwealth Government's Working Nation Initiative. Other strategies being pursued by the Department include regular meetings between local police, the residents and the Department, the provision of a facility for a youth centre and the linking with other agencies targeting young people currently operating within Claymore.

A Youth Focus Group has also been established to identify housing needs and to develop appropriate strategies for young people within the South Western Sydney Region, including Claymore.

The Hon. M. R. EGAN: On 22 November 1995 the Hon. J. H. Jobling asked me a question without notice regarding Enfield marshalling yard soil contamination. The Minister for Transport has provided the following response:

The majority of the community concerns which have been expressed about the Enfield Marshalling Yards are directed at National Rail over their proposed Intermodal Terminal. Some community members want to stop the development until the cumulative effect of road traffic and air pollution of all the industrial developments in the Enfield and Chullora areas are studied and the problems resolved. Freight Rail's Marshalling Yard will not contribute to road traffic since no goods will be loaded or unloaded.

Freight Rail's redevelopment has resulted in five stockpiles of soil being established on the site. Three stockpiles will be used by National Rail and two are surplus to requirements. As the stockpiles are completed, they are vegetated to prevent dust blowing from them. The last stockpile is still in use and has not yet been completely vegetated.

A sampling programme of material in the stockpile has been undertaken as part of the Environment Protection Authority's (EPA) construction conditions. The samples have been analysed in independent registered laboratories and the results demonstrate that the concentration of contaminants is below the intervention values set by the EPA. These values are the Dutch (MH SPE) 1994 criteria, which are accepted in many countries. By this definition, the stockpile is not contaminated.

The heavy metal concentration figures in the question came from samples taken from the stockpile by a local resident at Freight Rail's invitation. They indicate contaminant levels well below the EPA limits for industrial sites.

Freight Rail accepts that dust from any source could be a nuisance to residents and will have the remaining stockpile seeded and vegetated as soon as possible.

The Hon. M. R. EGAN: On 22 November 1995 the Hon. D. J. Gay asked me a question without notice regarding national truck registration fees. The Minister for Roads has provided the following response:

When the July 1995 commitment was made, all jurisdictions other than Western Australia were proposing 1 July 1995 as the commencement date for the introduction of national charges. After being elected to office, it became clear to the NSW Government that other States were not going to honour their undertakings made under the Heads of Government Agreement. The Minister for Roads indicated during his second reading speech for the Road Transport Legislation (Amendment) Bill, that the 1 July 1995 undertaking was met by the Australian Capital Territory and Queensland only, and by the Commonwealth Government for federally registered interstate heavy vehicles.

At the recent meeting of the National Ministerial Council for Road Transport, the Minister for Roads agreed, along with all other Ministers, to the introduction of national charges no later than 1 July 1996.

The NSW Government takes the very strong view that uniform charges means exactly that - national and uniform.

The national charges will result in gains for the NSW road transport industry, but the charges will result in a reduction in registration revenue to NSW.

This Government is prepared to introduce the national charges before 1 July 1996 on a national, uniform basis.

Discussions will take place with the South Australian Government and the Western Australian Government early in 1996.

If the other States agree to bring the introduction of the National Scheme forward, New South Wales is also in a position to do so.

The Hon. M. R. EGAN: On 4 December 1995 the Hon. Helen Sham-Ho asked me a question without notice regarding public housing waiting lists. The Minister for Housing has provided the following response:

The Department of Housing's waiting list has since 1992/93 increased by 7.8% from 81,833 to 88,199.

At present the waiting time for public housing in the Eastern and Northern Suburbs is nine years. However the Department has moved to a more needs based assessment process which means those with the highest level of need

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are housed first. The average waiting time for clients approved for priority housing in 1994/95 was seven months.

The Department is investigating a number of options to address the demand. These include a variety of head leasing options including the spot leasing of properties in the private sector. The Department has recently invited expressions of interest from private developers in relation to proposals for development and investment in public housing.

Within the funding terms of the Commonwealth/State Housing Agreement, the Department negotiates funding on a triennial basis.

A new Commonwealth/State Housing Agreement is currently being negotiated and therefore the funds for 1996/97 are as yet not known.

The Hon. M. R. EGAN: On 5 December 1995 the Hon. R. S. L. Jones asked me a question without notice regarding Crest Cadia Goldmine. The Minister for Urban Affairs and Planning has provided the following response:

Consent to any development will not be granted unless it is demonstrated that there will be no unacceptable environmental impacts.

While the proposed gold and copper mine is very large, it will be subject to the very rigorous environmental assessment from all the relevant government agencies. The assessment process also involves the three local councils (Orange, Cabonne and Blayney) that are directly affected by the project. If the proposal is given development consent, it will be subject to conditions that will be designed to minimise the environmental impacts.

There will be some 500 million tonnes of rock removed from the pit during the 12 year life of the mine. This comprises 230 million tonnes of ore and 270 million tonnes of waste rock.

The figure of 23.4 million litres (ML) per day is made up from 11.4 ML/day from Cadia/Cadiangullong/Flyers Creeks weirs; 10 ML/day of treated effluent from Orange Sewage Treatment Plant; and 2 ML/day (when required) from ground water local pumping.

The environmental impact statement (EIS) identifies a potential 3 ML/day from Blayney Sewage Treatment Plant that could be used to offset the need for water from one of the fresh water sources.

The ability of the region to sustain this level of water usage will be subject to very rigorous evaluation.

The EIS indicates that there are no endangered or Schedule 12 species that will be adversely threatened by the water requirements of the project. This advice is being verified as part of the assessment of the development application and EIS.

A Commission of Inquiry into the potentially devastating environmental and social impacts of the mine will be held. The Office of the Commissioners will shortly advertise procedures.

The Hon. M. R. EGAN: On 6 December 1995 the Hon. Elisabeth Kirkby asked me a question without notice regarding the Department of Fair Trading's engagement of a consultant. The Premier has provided the following response:

The consultant in question is Mr Colin Brown of Col Brown Consulting Pty Ltd. Mr Brown has a Bachelor of Arts degree (1st Class Honours, majoring in Accounting and Economics) from Macquarie University.

Mr Brown was appointed on 4 September 1995 by a high level Steering Committee which had been established at that time to oversight the amalgamation process for the Department of Fair Trading.

An early priority of that Steering Committee was the integration of the various disparate financial and accounting systems. Mr Brown was requested to submit a proposal and was subsequently appointed on the basis of his expertise, qualifications and experience in financial management, project management and managing organisational change.

The Hon. M. R. EGAN: On 7 December 1995 the Hon. D. J. Gay asked me a question without notice regarding Southern Highlands rail services. The Minister for Transport has provided the following response:

I am pleased to advise that, from February, CityRail proposes to double the number of through services to Sydney Mondays to Fridays. There will also be an extra shuttle service on weekday afternoons from Campbelltown to Goulburn.

Another significant improvement will be the re-routing of all through Southern Highlands services via the East Hills line instead of Granville. They will run non-stop between Glenfield and Sydney, which has the potential to substantially improve on-time running and will reduce journey times by up to 12 minutes. Most shuttles will also connect with trains on the East Hills line.

This government is committed to public transport and will continue to improve services, including those to the Southern Highlands.

The Hon. M. R. EGAN: On 7 December 1995 the Hon. M. R. Kersten asked me a question without notice regarding Broken Hill rail services. The Minister for Transport has provided the following response:

A passenger train service to Broken Hill will be introduced on a trial basis, the results of which will be carefully evaluated before final decisions are made about longer-term arrangements.

CountryLink will ensure that the service is widely advertised and promoted, and intends to introduce package tours in order to encourage people to use it.

The Hon. M. R. EGAN: On 7 December 1995 the Hon. D. F. Moppett asked me a question without notice regarding rural suicide. The Minister for Agriculture has provided the following response:

It was reported in the Standing Committee on Social Issues Report No.7 "Suicides in Rural New South Wales" that "Australia has one of the highest suicide rates in the industrialised world".

The Report on "Suicide in Rural New South Wales" contains a number of recommendations relating to the portfolio of the Minister for Agriculture. Responses to each relevant recommendation are included in the following section.

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The Government has taken a number of steps to address the recommendations outlined in the Report.

Recommendation 1

"That the Minister for Agriculture .....

• urge banks to mediate with farmers as soon as it becomes evident that financial hardship is occurring and not at the point of foreclosure; and

• continue to urge banking organisations to make reasonable allowances for the repayment of loans by viable farmers experiencing financial hardship as a result of the rural downturn and current drought".

The Farm Debt Mediation Act, and the role of the Rural Assistance Authority and Rural Financial Counsellors are addressing these issues.

Recommendation 2

"That the Minister for Agriculture negotiate with the Federal Minister for Primary Industries and Energy to ensure that the operation of the Rural Adjustment Scheme maximises positive and swift response to farmers' applications".

This is occurring on an on-going basis.

The transfer of the Rural Assistance Authority from Sydney to a country location, Orange, should also assist this process.

Recommendation 3

"That the Minister for Agriculture, in liaison with the Federal Minister for Primary Industries and Energy, ensure that funding for rural counsellors continue and that there be developed sensitive and locally-based campaigns to publicise the services provided by rural counsellors for farming families".

In both 1994-95 and 1995-96 the State Government provided 50% funding, matching that provided by the Commonwealth Government, to Rural Financial Counselling Services. This relieved the local communities of finding 25% funding which has been difficult during the drought.

The two Ministers and their departments have also worked together with rural communities to extend the number of services operating in NSW from 29 to 34 over the past 12 months.

NSW Agriculture and local community groups have undertaken a range of activities to further publicise the important service provided by the Rural Financial Counselling Services.

Recommendation 15

"That the Minister for Agriculture develop, as a matter of urgency, an assistance scheme for farmers, to enable farmers to utilise the services of the Department of Agriculture when disposing of their stock".

The State Government allocated $1 million to cover the cost of disposing of drought affected stock of no commercial value.

A 100% freight subsidy is also available where stock of no commercial value are transported to an abattoir, provided the cost of transport is less than the cost of on-site disposal.

Further

The reported increase in the rate of suicide in rural and remote areas, particularly by young males, is being linked to the loss of the family farm, high rates of unemployment, financial stress and hardship, family breakdown and feelings of hopelessness, depression and isolation. The current drought and rural downturn are exacerbating these problems within rural communities.

It can also be difficult in rural areas to get a true picture of the level of suicide as farm accident statistics may in fact be hiding suicide attempts.

In response to this situation the State Government and the Minister for Agriculture, through NSW Agriculture, has also supported a number of other initiatives. These include:

Rural Women's Network - working with other agencies to provide information, workshops, counselling and support. Examples are:

• Country Care Link - a confidential family support and information service for country NSW provided through a 1-800 line operated by the St Vincent's Sisters of Charity.

• Building Strong Communities project in the Orana/Far West Region - focuses on developing long term skills and community support in vulnerable areas.

• The Challenge of Change project on dealing with grief and loss in country communities.

Drought Support Workers - provide confidential family and community support through:

• providing emotional support where needed;

• assisting in developing local support networks;

• linking families with drought initiatives and support services; and

• making emergency cash payments to farm families in serious financial difficulties to assist in meeting household expenses.

While this program was specifically established to work with farm families affected by drought, it has by necessity often had to provide information counselling, support and referral to those contemplating suicide and other family members affected by suicide - attempted and successful.

Welfare Agencies - Government departments and the major welfare agencies have worked very closely to assist rural people during the present drought. Much of the success of this has been due to the establishment of the Drought Relief Coordination Committee for Welfare Services. This committee has also coordinated the distribution of $10 million provided by the State Government to assist needy farm families with household support.

NSW Department of Health - Rural Health Counsellors

The Department funded 19 rural health counsellor positions for 12 months in 1994/95. The rural health counsellors provide counselling and undertake health promotion activities. Their purpose is to assist farmers and families address issues such as stress, anxiety, suicide prevention, family breakdown, domestic violence and assault.

These programs, along with other similar government and non-government activities, have very likely contributed to a reduction in the level of potential suicides in rural NSW by helping people before they get to that extreme level of despair.

The Hon. M. R. EGAN: On 11 December 1995 the Hon. R. S. L. Jones asked me a question without notice regarding beachfront land at Longbeach, near Batemans Bay. The Minister for Urban Affairs and Planning has provided the following response:

The land in question was zoned 2(d) Residential in 1985 prior to the introduction of the Lower South Coast Regional Environmental Plan (REP) No.2 and The New South Wales Coast Government Policy (Coastal Policy). The land is capable of being subdivided and sold and its zoning is not altered by the REP and Coastal Policy.

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It is not known how much land along the NSW coast was similarly zoned prior to the introduction of REP No.2 and the Coastal Policy. Whilst the Government proposes to improve coastal planning and management through the making of a new improved coastal policy, the new policy would not alter existing zonings.

No useful purpose would be served in undertaking a study of similarly zoned land along the coastline as the zoning of these lands would not be altered by policies and REPs introduced after the zoning was effected. This Government is committed to ensuring that future zonings protect the visual and environmental integrity of the NSW coast.

The Hon. M. R. EGAN: On 11 December 1995 the Hon. I. Cohen asked me a question without notice regarding Sunsaver hot water systems. The Minister for Housing has provided the following response:

A review of all hot water heating systems is currently under way by the Department of Housing. It is the first time that such a detailed study has been undertaken and it needs to be thorough. The study is seeking to include all the considerations from initial capital cost, installation, operating costs, acceptance by users, depreciation, etc.

The final report is expected in May, 1996.

The Department is also seeking ways to incorporate environmental considerations in all its operations through an Ecologically Sustainable Development Policy (ESDP). The ESDP proposes the testing of solar hot water heating systems in public housing through a demonstration and monitoring program.

The Hon. M. R. EGAN: On 12 December 1995 the Hon. Patricia Forsythe asked me a question without notice regarding the school student transport scheme. The Minister for Transport has provided the following response:

The parents/guardians of students deemed ineligible by the criteria, may continue to appeal to the Department of Transport where they genuinely consider the health or safety of their child would suffer by not being approved for free travel. This appeal process has been in place since 1986 when the last changes were made to the criteria for free school student travel.

The Hon. M. R. EGAN: On 12 December 1995 the Hon. I. Cohen asked me a question without notice regarding Byron Bay development. The Minister for Urban Affairs and Planning has provided the following response:

The Byron Bay Shire Council is able to consider an application for development of the Club Med site north of Byron Bay, under its existing local planning provisions. The Council, as the local planning authority, has the responsibility to consider community concern and environmental impact as part of the assessment process. The Minister for Urban Affairs and Planning is also aware that the proposal is being significantly reduced in extent. In this regard, any environmental impact and community concern may be considerably lessened. In these circumstances, it is premature to indicate whether or not a Commission of Inquiry would be appropriate.

The Hon. M. R. EGAN: On 13 December 1995 the Hon. Elaine Nile asked a question without notice regarding the school student transport scheme. The Minister for Transport has provided the following response:

The Department of Transport notified the parents/guardians of students affected by the change in distance criteria for high school students prior to the commencement of the 1996 school year.

Bus operators have identified the students concerned, from their records, and they have provided the identified students names and addresses to the Department of Transport.

Parents/guardians of any student identified to be ineligible, were not left in limbo, and have received notification from the Department of Transport.

In previous years, eligible students did not receive notification of their eligibility at the end of the school year and simply received a renewed travel pass from the operator at the beginning of term 1.

Therefore most students were notified earlier than in past years.

The Hon. M. R. EGAN: On 14 December 1995 the Hon. I. Cohen asked me a question without notice regarding the Newcrest Cadia goldmine. The Minister for Urban Affairs and Planning has provided the following response:

I have been advised that the environmental impact statement (EIS) was exhibited between the 20 November and 22 December 1995. During the exhibition over 50 submissions were received from private individuals or groups.

The Department of Urban Affairs and Planning is assessing the development application with assistance from other relevant government agencies.

The Hon. Craig Knowles, MP has also directed that a Commission of Inquiry be held and appointed Dr Mark Carleton to hold the Inquiry. Material relevant to the Inquiry was exhibited between 12 January and 19 February 1996 with the public hearings to commencing on 5 March 1996.

The government has not made a gift of 4,200 million litres of water to Newcrest Mining. The government has only given the company an understanding to put in place a legal mechanism for allowing the company to seek a licence to obtain up to 4,200 megalitres of water.

The 4,200 megalitres of water is proposed to be obtained by the company acquiring an existing water licence and surrendering it and potentially pumping ground water into the Lachlan River. This will therefore not result in any increase in allocations so will be consistent with the water cap.

The development application for the mine proposal covers some aspects of the overall water needs. Assessment of the transfer of water will be the subject of a separate water licence application through the normal requirements of the Water Act.

The Hon. M. R. EGAN: On 14 December 1995 the Hon. Virginia Chadwick asked me a question without notice regarding the Sydney Market Authority. I am now able to inform the honourable member as follows:

ACIL and JLW were commissioned to undertake a study of the commercial management and the level of charges of the Sydney Market Authority (the Authority). This study commenced on 9 October 1995. It is anticipated that the findings of the study will be received by the end of February 1996.

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On behalf of the Cabinet Standing Committee on Micro Economic and GTE Reform, the Premier's Department has commissioned a study by Turnbull and Partners to investigate strategic options for the Authority.

The ACIL/JLW study was commissioned by Treasury, in consultation with the Authority, to determine whether the Authority earns commercial returns and whether the Authority's charging regime is commercially based. The study is intended to inform the annual negotiations between the Treasurer, the Minister for Agriculture and the Board of the Authority on financial performance targets as part of the Government's commercial policy framework for Government Trading Enterprises.

As principals of Turnbull and Partners, Messrs Malcolm Turnbull and Neville Wran have been personally involved in conducting interviews with stakeholders and are assisting the Government in considering the strategic options for the Authority.

The memo CS0002 issued by the Managing Director of the Sydney Market Authority, to all staff, on 18 October 1995 is correct.

The Hon. M. R. EGAN: On 14 December 1995 the Hon. Helen Sham-Ho asked me a question without notice regarding the employment of women of non-English speaking background. The Premier has provided the following response:

The NSW Government is aware of the current barriers faced by women of non-English speaking backgrounds in gaining access to employment and the associated isolation that this can cause.

To address the needs of women of non-English speaking background, the Premier has convened the Overseas Skills and Qualifications Taskforce.

The Taskforce will identify best practice ways of recognising and utilising overseas gained skills and qualifications and specific strategies targeted to assist women of non-English speaking backgrounds.

The Government provides a number of programs to assist unemployed people of non-English speaking backgrounds. These include the Skillmax Program, the Specialist Migrant Placement Officer Program and the Circuit Breaker Program.

To increase the participation of women of non-English speaking background in government decision making processes, the Government has established a Register for Women and for People of Non-English Speaking Background. The register will be consulted by all Ministers when vacancies occur on existing or new Government Boards and Committees and administered by the Public Employment Office.

The Government is committed to increasing the employment opportunities for women of non-English speaking backgrounds.

There are two women of non-English speaking background on the Women's Council. They are Ms Caroline Alcorso, who was specifically appointed to represent non-English speaking women, and Ms Cristina Cifuentes.

The Hon. M. R. EGAN: On 14 December 1995 the Hon. R. S. L. Jones asked a question without notice regarding the Wombarra drainage tunnel project. The Minister for Transport has provided the following response:

The State Rail Authority (the Authority) has undertaken extensive investigations and reviews of the Wombarra Drainage Project. In 1992, the Authority undertook an exhaustive analysis of the options and environmental issues of the project culminating in an environmental impact statement. This statement was open to comment from the community and government departments.

The project was subsequently designed by the internationally recognised consulting company, Snowy Mountains Engineering Corporation Pty Ltd.

Throughout this process all the major risks have been identified and effectively managed.

Subsequently, a series of concerns were raised which have been evaluated by highly competent and independent consultants who have identified any additional risks or faults to the original design.

The most recent independent review was completed in September 1995.

In the course of the rigorous investigation, design and review processes undertaken for the Wombarra Drainage Project, the Authority considers that the assessment of risk has been adequately and properly dealt with.

The Hon. M. R. EGAN: On 14 December 1995 the Deputy Leader of the Opposition asked me a question without notice about small business operations. I am now able to give the honourable member the following answer:

The Department of State and Regional Development is in the process of forming the New South Wales Innovation Council. The Council is to be a Ministerial advisory body operating under the terms of the New South Wales Science and Technology Council Act (to be amended appropriately).

The Council is to subsume as many of the roles of three pre-existing advisory bodies (the NSW Science and Technology Council, the Manufacturing Industry Advisory Council and the Technology Development Board) as are relevant to its Mission.

The role of the Council is to advise on potential programs and to comment on Government initiatives to promote public and private sector innovation. It is also to investigate issues which impact on its advisory function, and to provide intelligence from, and contact with, industry and the research community. The Council is to be made up of 15 members.

Further to the above, in August 1995 the then Minister for Small Business and Regional Development, the Honourable Carl Scully, MP, announced the formation of the NSW Innovation Advisory Centres for regional and metropolitan NSW. The services provided through these centres are designed specifically for small business inventors and innovators.

The NSW Innovation Advisory Centres were formed to provide a much needed advisory service to small business inventors and innovators.

The Commonwealth Government's Innovation Statement of 6 December 1995, made by the Prime Minister, also indicated considerable support for small business inventors and innovators, as follows:

• 150% Tax Deduction Program
• Competitive Grants Scheme
• Rural Research and Development
• Technology Support Centres
• Technology Expert Placements
• Encouraging Innovative Practice
• Innovation Culture
• Karpin Report Responses

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• Bank Equity Capital Scheme
• "Finance Ready" Program
• Matching Investors with Investees
• Trial Equity Market Program
• Bank Risk Assessment
• International Experts
• Superhighway Ready Program
• Tradeblazer Electronic Commerce Facility


The Hon. M. R. EGAN: On 14 December 1995 the Hon. Dr B. P. V.Pezzutti asked me a question without notice regarding the M4 Tollway. The Minister for Roads has provided the following response:

The Government has announced a $100 million program for the improvement of sections of the M4 Motorway between Parramatta and Penrith. This program provides for the construction of an additional eastbound and an additional westbound lane on that section of the Motorway, noise attenuation works adjacent to residential development, the provision of safety barriers and improvements to landscaping and drainage.

The program of works will commence in 1996 and is expected to be completed in 1999.

This improvement program applies to those sections of the road which are not part of the tollroad but which are operated and maintained by the State and free to all road users.

The Government will soon commence negotiations with Statewide Roads, the operator of the tollroad, with a view to that organisation undertaking similar and compatible improvements works on the tolled sections of the road.

The Hon. M. R. EGAN: On 15 December 1995 the Hon. R. S. L. Jones asked me a question without notice regarding Diesohol. The Minister for Transport has provided the following response:

Two buses currently use Diesohol. The results of their performance, while so far inconclusive, do not support the Honourable Member's emissions claims for the fuel. A further three buses commenced using Diesohol in January when another trial began.

The Department of Transport and State Transit Authority are jointly investigating the introduction of electric buses in the Central Business District.

Expressions of interest for the design, manufacture and supply of a limited number of electric buses will be called in early 1996.

The selected firms will then be asked to provide more detail in technical aspects.

The Hon. M. R. EGAN: On 15 December 1995 the Hon. J. F. Ryan asked me a question without notice regarding Olympic hotel accommodation. The Minister for Urban Affairs and Planning has provided the following response:

The Minister for Urban Affairs and Planning is aware that a development application (DA) for an 18 storey hotel/motel on Parramatta Road at Concord was refused by Concord Council in 1994. Council's refusal was based on the excessive scale of the development proposal and its adverse impacts on adjoining properties including overshadowing, loss of privacy, noise and traffic. The Land and Environment Court upheld Council's decision to refuse the DA on appeal from the applicant.

An adviser to the Minister for Urban Affairs and Planning has met with the proponent of the hotel/motel development. However, the proposal does not fall within the definition of an "Olympic Games Project" under State Environmental Planning Policy No.38, nor within the area covered by Sydney Regional Environmental Plan No.24 - Homebush Bay. Therefore, Concord Council remains consent authority and neither the Minister for Urban Affairs and Planning and Minister for Housing nor the Department of Urban Affairs and Planning have a role in determining a development application for the proposal.

The Minister for Urban Affairs and Planning has been advised by Concord Council that there are no proposals for 25 storey office towers in the area of the hotel/motel proposal. The nearest site, subject to preliminary discussions with Council about intensive development, is located at least 200 metres to the south west of the site of the hotel/motel proposal. This area is adjacent to Strathfield town centre and is subject to different planning issues and controls.

The Hon. M. R. EGAN: On 15 December 1995 the Hon. I. Cohen asked a question without notice regarding the Kurnell landfill. The Minister for Urban Affairs and Planning has provided the following response:

The subject land is within an area covered by Sydney Regional Environmental Plan (REP) No. 17 - Kurnell Peninsula. Sutherland Shire Council is the consent authority responsible for the control of development on land covered by the REP.

The land in question is zoned Special Development 7(b) in the REP and in this zone land uses such as tourist and industrial development are permissible. The land fill operation at present being carried out is also a permissible use with the consent of Sutherland Shire Council.

The Sutherland Shire Council has approved the application for the establishment of a depot for the receipt of excavated and selected demolition material on 6 September 1990. The development application was approved subject to a number of conditions which included a requirement for ground water monitoring. Sutherland Council is responsible for attaching the conditions of consent and ensuring compliance with those conditions. Neither the Minister for Urban Affairs and Planning nor the Department of Urban Affairs and Planning had any role in the determination of the application.

As the land is zoned to allow a wide range of development the landfill operation will enable the site to be developed further at a later date.

The Hon. M. R. EGAN: On 15 December 1995 the Hon. I. Cohen asked a question without notice regarding the Kurnell landfill. The Minister for Urban Affairs and Planning has provided the following response:

Most of the area of land referred to lot 1, being part of lot 144, deposited plan 815022, Beech Drive, Suffolk Park has been included in SEPP 14 under Amendment 11 gazetted on 22 December 1995. It is now Wetland 83a. The area included in the Policy is a melaleuca forest and sedgeland conforming with the policy criteria. The actions to be taken on the area of allegedly illegally cleared land to the north of the gazetted area are subject to negotiations between Byron Council, the developer Firebeach Pty Ltd and the Department of Land and Water Conservation.

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The Hon. R. D. DYER: On 25 October 1995 the Deputy Leader of the Opposition asked a question without notice regarding the track at Wentworth Park racecourse. I am now able to furnish the honourable member with the following answer:

Prior to the last election, the Minister for Gaming and Racing had received approaches from greyhound industry participants on the need for a larger one turn second metropolitan track to accommodate greyhounds not suited by the Wentworth Park layout.

Accordingly this issue was addressed in the Government's racing policy and the possibility of a greyhound racing track being established within the new Harold Park development was explored.

Following the conduct of a feasibility study by the NSW Greyhound Breeders, Owners and Trainers' Association into the transferring of its racing operations from Wentworth Park to Harold Park, the Association determined to remain at Wentworth Park. As the other metropolitan race club operating at Wentworth Park, the NSW National Coursing Association, was also not receptive to transferring its operations, Harold Park has been ruled out as a venue.

However, the Minister is still mindful of calls for a larger track and he has asked that the Greyhound Racing Control Board provide him with its advice, in consultation with the two metropolitan clubs, on the need and feasibility of establishing a new greyhound track in the metropolitan area.

The Minister will give further consideration to the matter following receipt of the Board's report

The Hon. R. D. DYER: I refer to the question without notice from the Hon. R. S. L. Jones asked on 23 November 1995 concerning national standards for organic and biodynamic products. My colleague the Minister for Health has advised:

The packaging and labelling of foods in New South Wales is subject to the Food Act 1989 which is administered by the Department of Health. Regulations made under the Food Act are elaborated by the National Food Authority (NFA) endorsed by the State and Territory Ministers for Health via the National Food Standards Council (NFSC) and adopted automatically and by reference in accordance with the National Food Standards Agreement.

The Australian Quarantine Inspection Service made application to the NFA in 1993 to include labelling of organic food in the Food Standards Code. The application was rejected by the NFA on advice from the Commonwealth Attorney General that it would be acting outside its powers were it to include a provision in the Food Standards Code making certification of an operator by a party outside the food standards setting system (ie a certifying organisation or AQIS) as a precondition for selling food as organic.

The Food Act 1989 provides a maximum penalty of $5000 or imprisonment for a term of six months, or both for any person who sells any article of food which is adulterated or falsely described.

The Hon. R. D. DYER: I refer to the question without notice from the Hon. Elaine Nile asked on 6 December 1995 concerning blood product importation. My colleague the Minister for Health has advised:

The Health Department advises that imported blood products or blood components may include the following;

(a) Foreign plasma for fractionisation by Commonwealth Serum Laboratories (CSL).

(b) The Commonwealth Therapeutic Goods Administration licensed selective specialised blood products.

(c) Fresh blood components

The Commonwealth Serum Laboratories fractionate foreign plasma from a number of overseas countries including Asian countries and New Zealand. When privatised in 1994 CSL underwent an audit by the Federal Auditor-General. That audit raised concerns relating to the quality and safety of plasma from foreign countries which was being fractionated by CSL for use in those countries. The Auditor General recommended a reappraisal of the CSL plant to ensure that there was no risk of contaminating Australian plasma with foreign plasma.

A meeting was held on 21 February 1996 with representatives from CSL, the Therapeutic Goods Administration, the Red Cross Blood Transfusion Service and the Australian Quarantine and Inspections Service (AQIS) to discuss the audit report. At this meeting it was agreed that all suppliers of plasma to CSL would conform to the Committee for Propriety Medicinal Products (European committee) guidelines which control the starting materials for the production of blood derivatives. Each consignment of imported plasma will be accompanied by a statement from the collection agency certifying that the plasma has been collected in accordance with the requirements of the British Pharmacopoeia Monograph entitled "Human Plasma for Fractionation". The meeting concluded that there was no need to amend the legislation and that the Australian plasma supply is at no risk of contamination with foreign plasma.

The Commonwealth Serum Laboratories conforms to the Australian Code of Good Manufacturing Practice for Therapeutic Goods. This code requires that foreign plasma is appropriately labelled, quarantined and processed separately from Australian plasma and then returned to the country of origin. The NSW Health Department advises that all foreign plasma and Australian plasma is retested by CSL for HIV, Hepatitis B and Hepatitis C and that all products from foreign plasma processed in Australia by CSL are returned to the sending country.

Selective specialised blood products manufactured overseas from plasma sourced overseas are available in Australia eg. Recombinant FVIII. Prior to being licensed by the Therapeutic Goods Administration, the product is fully scrutinised and evaluated for quality, safety and efficacy by the Administration.

The Health Department advises that no imported blood is being used in New South Wales.

In NSW the Human Tissue Act 1983 - Regulation provides that all donated blood must be tested for prescribed contaminants using approved tests including - Hepatitis B surface antigen, Hepatitis C antibody, Furman immunodeficiency virus antibody and Treponemo Palladium related antibody. If any blood is found by the tests to be positive for a prescribed contaminant, the blood must not be used for any therapeutic purpose without the approval of the Director-General of the Health Department and the container of the blood must be prominently labelled with the biohazard symbol.

The Hon. R. D. DYER: I refer to the question without notice asked by the Hon. J. F. Ryan on 20 November 1995 concerning a treatment program for stutterers at St Vincent's Hospital. My colleague the Minister for Health has advised:

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In recent years, techniques for the treatment of stuttering have improved and speech pathology services have become more readily available through community health centres and public hospitals with speech pathology departments. Intensive treatment programs are provided through Royal North Shore, Royal Prince Alfred and Bankstown-Lidcombe Hospitals.

The South Eastern Sydney Area Health Service advises that a review of clinical services at St Vincent's Public Hospital revealed a decreased demand for services of its Stutterer's Clinic. This is thought to be due to demographic changes and also to the overall improved service availability.

The Area advises that in view of the services available at other centres, the Clinic was closed in November 1995. The Hospital's Anxiety Disorders Unit, through which the Clinic was run, will now concentrate on its original and core role of providing treatment for anxiety disorders. Patients have been advised of the closure of the Clinic and of alternative available services.

The Hon. R. D. DYER: I refer to the question without notice asked by the Hon. Patricia Forsythe on 7 December 1995 concerning education programs dealing with the physical and psychological after-effects of female genital mutilation. My colleague the Minister for Health has advised:

Legislation making the practice of female genital mutilation illegal in NSW was proclaimed on 1 May 1995. The NSW Department of Health advises that a community education program is being oversighted by an Interdepartmental Committee on which the Department is represented.

Since the Committee is chaired by the Ethnic Affairs Commission, any questions concerning the program should be directed to the Premier as he has ministerial responsibility for the Commission.

The NSW Health Department advises that the Commonwealth Government will allocate $140,000 annually for 5 years to the Department. This funding is to support the NSW Government initiative and to develop training and education for health workers to assist those women and girls living in Australia who are at risk of, or have already been subjected to female genital mutilation, to minimise adverse health outcomes and psychosocial harm. The NSW Health Department is currently developing a proposal for utilisation of those funds.

The Hon. R. D. DYER: I refer to the question without notice asked by Reverend the Hon. F. J. Nile on 23 November 1995 concerning research by the tobacco company Philip Morris, and the implications of the leaking of this research on the Government's tobacco control activities. My colleague the Minister for Health has advised:

The NSW Health Department advises that there have been media reports regarding "leaked" research conducted by cigarette manufacturer Phillip Morris on the nicotine content of cigarettes, and the effect of nicotine on animals.

According to media reports in the United States this research likens nicotine to cocaine in some of its effects on the brain, and suggested that nicotine is an addictive substance.

This Government is committed to reducing the harm caused by tobacco use in this State, especially amongst young people. A major focus of the NSW QUIT Campaign over the next year will be on activities to prevent young people from starting smoking, including measures to prevent young people from having access to tobacco products. Also, the Government has provided additional funding of $5 million over five years for drug education in schools, including tobacco prevention education.

In relation to passive smoking in restaurants, clubs and hotels, the NSW QUIT Campaign will continue to promote awareness of the health risks of passive smoking. The Department is encouraging restauranteurs and publicans to implement smoke free policies and will remind them of the high level of public support for smoke free areas and smoke bans in restaurants, clubs and bars.

The Health Department has convened a taskforce to identify and assess a range of strategies, including regulation, for eliminating exposure to passive smoke in areas where food and beverages are consumed. This task force is due to report to the Minister for Health in the second half of this year.

The Hon. R. D. DYER: I refer to the question without notice asked by Reverend the Hon. F. J. Nile on 12 December 1995 concerning passive smoking, and in particular recommendations about the banning of smoking in cars carrying children. My colleague the Minister for Health has advised:

The NSW Health Department advises that the National Health and Medical Research Council's working party on the health effects of passive smoking released a draft report in November last year.

The draft report made a number of recommendations regarding the issue of passive smoking including that "legal prohibition of smoking in private motor vehicles during periods where minors are passengers should be considered by State and Territory governments". Also, the draft report recommended that "all States and Territories should adopt broadly based legislation dealing as far as possible with all exposures to tobacco smoke in enclosed or constricted public places".

NSW already has legislation in place to prohibit smoking where food is prepared. A taskforce has been convened by the Health Department to identify and assess a range of strategies, including non-regulatory strategies, for eliminating exposure to passive smoke in areas where food and beverages are consumed.

The draft National Health and Medical Research Council report states that "since the 1980s there has been a rapid escalation in the number of workplaces that have introduced restrictions of smoking in indoor work settings or made them entirely smoke-free". The Department has also advised that a range of other commercial enterprises, including major shopping chains such as Westfield Shopping Centres, have voluntarily adopted a smokefree policy for their premises.

The NSW Health Department is currently considering options, including non-legislative options such as public education campaigns, to reduce the exposure to environmental tobacco smoke of passengers in private vehicles.

The Hon. R. D. DYER: I refer to the question without notice from the Hon. Elisabeth Kirkby asked on 24 October 1995 concerning blood lead levels in Newcastle children. I am advised by my colleague the Minister for Health as follows:

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The Hunter Area Health Service advises that much work has been conducted over the past four years to define the extent and nature of the hazard in the lead affected community of North Lake Macquarie. The Health Department, through the Hunter Public Health Unit and the Newcastle Environmental Toxicology Research Unit, has ensured the ongoing availability of blood lead testing to identify children with elevated blood lead levels.

The Health Department advises that the National Health and Medical Research Council's blood lead goal for all Australians is 10 µg/dL (micrograms of lead per decilitre of blood). Ongoing surveillance of children (aged up to thirteen) in the North Lake Macquarie area reveals a mean blood lead level of 8.8 µg/dL, compared to 13.6 µg/dL in 1991. One of the most affected suburbs, Boolaroo, has a mean blood lead level of 11 µg/dL.

I am advised that a management plan has been prepared to deal with lead contamination in North Lake Macquarie. A project manager has recently been appointed to develop this into a plan of action for remediation work in the area. In addition, an Environmental Management Committee has been convened to oversee further work at North Lake Macquarie. The Committee has wide representation including government agencies, industry and the community.

In addition, the North Lake Macquarie Environmental Management Centre was officially opened on 9 November 1995. This Centre will be a "one stop shop" for work relating to environmental lead remediation in the area and will provide a site for regular meetings of community groups.

The property accommodating the Centre was donated by Pasminco Metals-Sulphide. Pasminco also donated $100,000 to commence the remediation work.

Remediation work to date has concentrated on residential properties which are closest to the Pasminco lead smelter and at Boolaroo school. The Department advises that Pasminco has purchased some adjacent properties, modified the smelter to decrease emissions and conducted other remediation work such as tree planting. In addition, the Health Department has funded a position at the Boolaroo Environmental Health Centre to deal with some of the local lead issues.

In November 1995 a $200,000 State Environmental Trust fund was given to the North Lake Macquarie Environmental Management Committee to commence remediation work in homes where children have high blood lead levels. Remediation work is to commence within the next 2-3 months on homes to reduce lead exposure to children.

The Hon. R. D. DYER: I refer to the question without notice asked by the Hon. Dr Marlene Goldsmith on 14 December 1995 concerning factor 8 coagulant supplies. I am advised by my colleague the Minister for Health as follows:

The Health Department advises that Factor VIII coagulant is available either as a recombinant product or as a plasma derived product. Recombinant Factor VIII is a genetically engineered product while Plasma Derived Factor VIII is produced from donations made in Australia.

In NSW Recombinant Factor VlIl is only available for routine prophylaxis for patients with haemophilia A who;

(a) have not been previously treated with plasma-derived Factor VIII

(b) are aged 18 years or less and are hepatitis C negative and currently receiving Factor VIII prophylaxis

(c) were born after Jan 1990 (following introduction of routine screening for hepatitis C) and are currently receiving Factor VIII prophylaxis and whose hepatitis C status is unknown (presumed negative).

The NSW Haemophilia Advisory Group is a committee of the Red Cross Blood Transfusion Service and includes members from hospitals which have a large number of patients with haemophilia. The Blood Transfusion Service advises that a number of members of the Haemophilia Advisory Group contacted recently were not aware of any patients with haemophilia being turned away from hospitals without treatment, for an acute bleeding episode or emergency surgical procedure, because of a shortage of factor VlIl. It noted that plasma-derived Factor VlIl would usually be used. However, it remains the task of the Haemophilia Advisory Group to assess in the light of available supplies of Factor VIII, the scheduling of elective surgical procedures for people with haemophilia throughout the State.

The Health Department has developed a three year strategy for the increased supply of Plasma Derived Factor VIII to attain the level of two International Units per head of population by July 1997. This level was agreed to by the States and the Commonwealth and this strategy involves Commonwealth funds under the present cost sharing arrangements.

The donation rate at the NSW Blood Transfusion Service has continued to rise over the last seven months. The overall donation rate has increased by 8% during July 1995 to January 1996, compared with the same period the previous year. The main increase has been in plasmapheresis donations which have increased by 75%. There was a 15% increase in plasma sent to the Commonwealth Serum Laboratories in January 1996 compared with January 1995.

The agreed position at the Australian Health Ministers Conference was a four year strategy to achieve a supply level in accordance with the agreed international standards. Provision was made this financial year to make funds available for purchase of Recombinant Factor VIII.

The NSW Health Department has purchased $850,000 of Recombinant product over the last 12 Months and has advised that the State still has supplies of the Recombinant product. There have been problems with the supply of Plasma Derived Factor VIII from the Commonwealth Serum Laboratories and these issues are being addressed with the Commonwealth Government.

The Hon. R. D. DYER: On 15 November 1995 the Hon. Patricia Forsythe asked me a supplementary question about the Domestic Violence Advisory Service. The Minister for Fair Trading, and Minister for Women has provided the following response:

1. The Premier's Council for Women has met with the Premier. The Council will meet again with the Premier in June 1996 and again in December.

2. The Council has identified 6 objectives and established sub committees to develop action plans to achieve these objectives. The objectives are:

•reduce violence against women
•promote workplaces that are equitable, safe and responsive to all aspects of women's lives
•maximise the interests of women in micro economic reform
•promote the position of women in all aspects of society

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•promote access to and successful participation by women in all parts of the education and training system
•improve the health and quality of life of women in NSW.

The Hon. R. D. DYER: I refer to the question without notice asked by the Hon. Elisabeth Kirkby on 14 December 1995 about the Allandale Nursing Home. I am advised by my colleague the Minister for Health as follows:

The Hunter Area Health Service advises that Allandale Nursing Home will not close and will continue to provide a high quality of aged care services.

The Area Health Service has not said that there has to be an immediate reduction of at least 150 staff.

There are no plans to transfer the Allandale Nursing Home to the private sector.

The Hon. R. D. DYER: I refer to the question without notice asked by Reverend the Hon. F. J. Nile on 14 December 1995 concerning the Broken Hill Ambulance Service. I am advised by my colleague the Minister for Health as follows:

The NSW Ambulance Service advises that It is essential that a single ambulance co-ordination centre handles all incoming requests for ambulance assistance in a designated area. This is necessary to avoid duplication of services, provide additional resources as and when required, and to ensure the efficient management of emergencies and major accidents.

Requests for non-emergency ambulance transport must be authorised by a registered medical practitioner or a hospital, and are arranged by telephoning 131233, a statewide telephone number for booking non-emergency transport.

Since 1990 emergency 000 calls emanating from the Broken Hill area have been directed to the Dubbo Ambulance Co-ordination Centre.

The emergency 000 network is a highly reliable service operated by Telstra Australia. Triple 0 calls are answered in the first instance by Telstra operators at Manual Assistance Centres strategically located across the country. The Telstra operator ascertains the origin of the call and the emergency service required. Immediately this information is received, connection is made with the relevant service. In the case of the Ambulance Service, this is to the particular coordination centre via dedicated tie lines. These tie lines are tested regularly to ensure reliability.

The Carr Government has recently pledged $10.5M to the Ambulance Service of New South Wales for the installation of a Computer Aided Despatch system. This state of the art computer system will give the Service's network of coordination centres online access to detailed geographical information and facilitate faster despatch of ambulances to emergency cases. It will significantly enhance the front line care our Ambulance Service delivers. This pledge signifies this Government's genuine commitment to the health of the people of New South Wales. It is expected that this system will be commissioned within three years.

The Hon. R. D. DYER: On 12 December 1995 the Deputy Leader of the Opposition asked a question without notice about redundancy packages. The Minister for Agriculture has provided the following answer:

Yes. A voluntary redundancy package has been offered to the staff of NSW Agriculture. I can assure the honourable member that there will be no sacking or forced redundancies of any of NSW Agriculture's staff. This includes staff at the Regional Veterinary Laboratories at Wagga Wagga and Armidale, and the Biological and Chemical Research Institute, Rydalmere.

The Hon. R. D. DYER: On 12 December 1995 the Hon. R. S. L. Jones asked me a question without notice about the membership of fisheries steering committees. The Minister for Fisheries has advised:

My Department, NSW Fisheries does not record whether licensed commercial fishers are of Koori descent.

NSW Fisheries does not record whether offenders are of Koori descent.

I am not aware whether or not any steering committee members are of Koori descent.

As stated, NSW Fisheries does not record whether licensed commercial fishers are of Koori descent, however, commercial fishers are subject to the provisions of the Fisheries Management Act 1994, including section 287, which states that the Act does not affect the operation of State and Commonwealth Native Title Acts. Nothing the steering committees do can impact adversely on any native title claim.

Steering committees have largely been formed on the basis of nominations received for industry without reference to representation of socio-linguistic groups. Forming committees on any other basis would be a major step away from the current model, would require consultation with all stakeholders and possible amendment to legislation. At this time I do not propose to change the current model.

The Hon. R. D. DYER: On 12 December 1995 the Hon. I. Cohen asked a question without notice regarding Chain Valley Bay mine subsidence. The Minister for Mineral Resources has provided the following response:

Since the beginning of 1987, nearly 150 claims for compensation were lodged in the central area of Chain Valley Bay. Tilt did affect some dwellings and that was recognised when the claims were investigated. However, in only a few cases was the final tilt such that remedial measures were required.

A study by the University of Newcastle showed that the average tilt before subsidence (acceptable tolerance) in houses before mining was 4 mm/m.

At Chain Valley Bay those cases where remedial work was carried out included one instance where the tilt exceeded 8 mm/m.

In another cases, a two storey brick veneer dwelling was partially constructed when tilt affected it. The rate of tilt was only 3.2 mm/m, but relevelling was required so that the rest of the building could be constructed level.

In the other cases, the tilt exceeded 4 mm/m.

The Hon. R. D. DYER: On 13 December 1995 the Hon. M. R. Kersten asked a question without notice regarding rabbit calicivirus disease. The answer is as follows:

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The calicivirus are part of a large family of viruses containing many different groups. Alvin Smith of Oregon State University in the United States has confused rabbit calicivirus disease with different groups of the calicivirus family. Some members of one group of calicivirus can infect several species, though this is a natural ability of that virus and does not come about through mutation, as claimed by Alvin Smith.

Rabbit calicivirus belongs to a different calicivirus group and infects only rabbits.

Rabbit calicivirus is found in more than forty countries around the world and there is no evidence that it affects any animals other than European rabbits. There is no evidence that rabbit calicivirus affects humans.

In a three year study by CSIRO, 28 different species of animals were inoculated with large doses of the virus. None of those animals became infected with the virus or became sick from it. The species of animals that were tested were selected by Conservation Groups as being representative of groups of animals that were likely to come into contact with RCD if it is released. There is no evidence from the spread of the virus in South Australia that rabbit calicivirus has affected any animals other than rabbits.

The Federal Minister for Primary Industries and Energy is presently considering an application to have RCD declared a Biological Control Agent under the Commonwealth Biological Control Act. The Federal Minister will be making a recommendation on whether RCD should be declared a control agent to all ARMCANZ Ministers after considering this application. In considering the application he will be taking into account any human health and environmental concerns that the public may have regarding RCD.

There is little support from the scientific community for the claims made by Alvin Smith of Oregon State University. Enquiries by the CSIRO and other bodies indicate that Alvin Smith has little expertise or understanding of rabbit calicivirus and was not aware of the extensive research carried out in Australia on this virus.

The Hon. R. D. DYER: On 13 December 1995 the Hon. Patricia Forsythe asked me a question without notice. The Minister for Fair Trading, and Minister for Women has supplied the following answer:

There were a number of significant events, sponsored by the Department for Women during the period from October 1995 to April 1996, which were mentioned in the Calendar. These included the exhibition Out of Line: 25 Years of Women's Posters, Mitchell Galleries, State Library of NSW, August 1 to December 3 1995, jointly sponsored by DFW and the State Library; financial sponsorship for the Reclaim the Night March in October 1995 and both the sponsorship and organisation of the Anne Conlon Lecture held in October 1995; financial sponsorship of the 1995 Australian National Women on the Land Field Day in Orange in November; the Department for Women co-sponsored the major conference, `Women Shaping the Future' with RIPAA, ODEOPE and the Department of Training and Education Coordination, held in November 1995 and co-sponsored with RIPAA, a Post-Beijing Briefing for peak women's organisations and the NSW Public Sector in December 1995; and leading up to IWD on March 8 financial sponsorship for the IWD Co-ordinating Committee, and staging/coordinating key activities to celebrate IWD in the week beginning March 4.

Yes. The Department for Women has an extensive program to inform and promote women, and this includes the Women's Calendar which acts as a clearing house for information about women's activities/events in NSW.

The other programs are the Women's Information and Referral Service (WIRS) which has been established as a permanent service with recurrent funding, meeting a significant pre-election commitment to women; the Women's Information Network (WIN), launched on the 17 October 1995, a direct fax-to-fax system providing information on 200 subjects via a dedicated 1900 number; a quarterly newsletter which informs women about the work of the Department for Women and the Premier's Council. The first edition was published to coincide with IWD 1996; the Women's Grants Program, the focus for 95/96 being on Australia's commitments at the 4th UN Conference on Women at Beijing; and the Women's Register, (a joint initiative with the Public Employment Office), designed to increase the representation of women on government boards and committees.

The Government is committed to informing and promoting women as the above programs demonstrate.

The Hon. R. D. DYER: On 15 December 1995 the Hon. Virginia Chadwick asked me a question without notice concerning abalone fisheries. The Minister for Fisheries has provided the following response:

The amount of abalone will continue to be controlled by the quota system which allocates an equal share of the Total Allowable Catch (TAC) of 333 tonnes to each of the 37 endorsement holders. The TAC is set by an assessment of the best available scientific information.

The removal of the "two for one" scheme does not affect the quota system. Quotas will be set at the appropriate level to ensure the sustainability of the resource.

The policy was changed as the "two for one" scheme had failed to reduce effort and was unnecessary in a quota managed fishery. The "two for one" had also restricted the transfer of endorsements, and was the major impediment to the introduction of a rational management plan for the fishery.

The Department undertook an extensive consultation process with industry involving individual meetings with each abalone diver, a survey of opinions of all divers, and written submissions. The views and advice of the Abalone Management Advisory Committee and of the Commercial Fishing Advisory Council were sought. The Department received advice that the regulation could be lawfully changed.

Advice was also received from senior officers from the ANZ bank on the impact of the removal of the "two for one" on the bank's lending policy, and the serviceability of loans. This advice confirmed that the change would not affect the bank's policy towards abalone divers.

The Hon. R. D. DYER: On 15 December 1995 the Hon. R. S. L. Jones asked me a question without notice about meat products. The Minister for Fair Trading, and Minister for Women has supplied the following answer:

These questions fall outside my area of responsibility. I would suggest that they be directed to the Minister for Health.

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The Hon. R. D. DYER: On 15 December 1995 the Hon. Patricia Forsythe asked me a question without notice about the Domestic Violence Advisory Service. The Minister for Fair Trading, and Minister for Women has provided the following answer:

I refer to correspondence from the Kempsey Domestic Violence Court support Program to the Minister for Women dated 27 November and 11 December 1995, which will be known to some members opposite as they too have received copies. Does the Government consider there is a need for the service in the Kempsey region? Has the Magistrate at Port Macquarie written to support the program? Has the Minister yet given the program any guarantee of funding beyond April 1996? If not, when will the Minister respond to correspondence? Does the Government consider it adequate that four month before a program's funding ends, the provider has no idea whether the program has a future?

The Government considered the need for a properly coordinated state-wide Court Support Program to be sufficiently important enough to announce recurrent funding of $1.5 million in the 1995-96 budget.

Yes. The Minister received correspondence dated 29 November from Mr Stephen Jackson, the Magistrate at Port Macquarie Local Court. She responded to the issues he raised on January 3 1996. Other correspondence received in November and December 1995, in relation to funding for the Kempsey service, was also responded to in January 1996.

The Kempsey Court Support Service is currently funded through the Area Assistance Scheme, which comes under the portfolio of the Minister for Urban Affairs and Planning. The Kempsey Scheme, like others funded under AAS has been advised that funding on an interim basis is approved until April 31. Negotiations are currently being held between Urban Affairs and Planning and the Legal Aid Commission to extend the interim funding to May 31. Legal Aid Commission called for submissions for funding for the NSW Women's Domestic Violence Court Assistance Program on 29 February 1996. Applications for funding closed on 25 March. Organisations successful in gaining a grant will be funded from May 1 1996 to 30 June 1997.

Organisations in receipt of Area Assistance Scheme funding are well aware of the short term nature of the funding and accept funding for their respective projects on the understanding that it is not recurrent.

The Hon. R. D. DYER: On 26 October 1995 the Hon. Patricia Forsythe asked the Treasurer, Minister for Energy, Minister for State and Regional Development, Minister Assisting the Premier, and Vice-President of the Executive Council, representing the Minister for Fair Trading, and Minister for Women, a question without notice. The Minister has supplied the following reply:

The Labor Government's pre-election policies singled out both a Women's Budget Statement and a Social Justice Budget Statement to complement existing financial statements.

In the lead up to the preparation for the 95-96 budget, it became obvious that the Government's commitment to pursuing clear social justice objectives of equity, access and participation and the strategies to be outlined in the Social Justice Budget Statement negated the need for a separate budget statement for women.

Nonetheless, the Government did produce a document entitled NSW Women and the 1995 Budget. This document, released on 10 October provided a summary of budget gains for women, by portfolio, and was widely distributed throughout the community and to women's groups.

Copies of the document are available on request from the Department for Women.

The Hon. R. D. DYER: On 15 November 1995 the Deputy Leader of the Opposition asked the Treasurer, Minister for Energy, Minister for State and Regional Development, Minister Assisting the Premier, and Vice-President of the Executive Council a question regarding Flemington Markets. The answer is as follows:

(1) The Minister for Agriculture announced an implementation strategy of the Sydney Market Authority for the next 12 to 18 months on Thursday 14 March 1996. Interest groups will be involved and consulted during the development of the implementation of corporatisation. The Government has decided that the Markets will remain on their present location at Flemington.

(2) Yes. As part of the corporatisation plan it is proposed that the markets remain on the present site.

(3) The Minister for Agriculture has given an assurance that the Markets will not be privatised.

The Hon. R. D. DYER: I refer to the question without notice asked on 22 November 1995 by the Hon. Jennifer Gardiner concerning elective surgery waiting lists at John Hunter Hospital. My colleague the Minister for Health has advised:

* The Hunter Area Health Service has advised that reported claims that the elective surgery program is causing delays in emergency surgery at John Hunter Hospital are incorrect.

* The Government's waiting list reduction program has significantly reduced waiting times for all categories of elective surgery in the Hunter Area.

* The Health Department has advised that no patient in the Hunter Area is required to travel outside of the Area, for example to Sydney, for services that are available in the Area unless they specifically wish to do so. The Area advises that there are no arrangements for surgery to be done in Sydney.

The Hon. R. D. DYER: On 7 December 1995 the Hon. Patricia Forsythe asked the Treasurer, Minister for Energy, Minister for State and Regional Development, Minister Assisting the Premier, and Vice-President of the Executive Council, representing the Minister for Fair Trading, and Minister for Women, a question without notice. The Minister has supplied the following answer:

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The Women and Media Awards will not be presented in 1996.

This was an initiative of the previous Government and a review of its effectiveness came up with a number of negative findings. One of the key objectives of the Awards was to raise awareness of the positive portrayal of women in the print and electronic media. Media coverage of the Awards and the outstanding stories in each category, was extremely poor in both 1994 and 1995, thus defeating the main objective of having the awards in the first place.

Whilst the winners and short-listed entries were innovative and of high calibre, many entries consisted of very ordinary stories which happened to be on the subject of women and which perpetuated negative stereotypes.

The other consideration taken into account when reviewing the future of the Awards was the very resource intensive nature of the project. In the 1994-95 Budget it cost the then Ministry for the Status of Women approximately $60,000 to stage the awards, which included payment of $45,000 to consultants specifically engaged for promotion and organisation of the event. In addition, the project required the commitment of one and half full time project officers for five months leading up to the Awards event. Clearly after two years of having a Women and Media Awards it has failed to deliver acceptable outcomes for the investment of taxpayers' funds and on this basis could not be sustained by the present Government.

Journalistic excellence in the print and electronic media will continue to be acknowledged and rewarded by the Walkley Awards, which are highly regarded by both female and male journalists.

The Hon. R. D. DYER: On 11 December 1995 the Hon. Elisabeth Kirkby asked me about the vacancy of the district agronomist position at Dareton. The answer is as follows:

(1) The Minister is aware that the position of District Agronomist, NSW Agriculture, Dareton, which provided agronomic services to the Wentworth district, has been vacant since 7 February 1995, when the previous incumbent, Mr Craig Birchall, was transferred to Moree.

(2) The cost of District Agronomist services are, in general, funded through the budget of the Department, and are not directly funded through charges and levies.

(3) NSW Agriculture is continuing to provide agronomic services to the Wentworth farming community through programs such as Property Management Planning/Farming for the Future, Landcare and other community based programs, to ensure that the Government's policies on protection of rural lands are achieved.

Under the new action plan for the Department of Agriculture announced by the Premier on 21 March 1996, these matters will receive even more attention through initiatives to improve consultation within the Western Division and expand rangeland management projects.

The Hon. R. D. DYER: On 26 October 1995 the Hon. D. F. Moppett asked the Treasurer, Minister for Energy, Minister for State and Regional Development, Minister Assisting the Premier, and Vice-President of the Executive Council, representing the Minister for Health, a question without notice. The Minister has supplied the following answer:

* The Commonwealth is responsible for the funding and provision of aged care services. Commonwealth planning targets are to provide 40 nursing home places for every thousand people over 70 years of age.

* From information provided by the NSW Health Department, the 1991 census data indicate that there were 78 people over 70 years of age in Collarenebri and adjacent collection districts (representing 4.2% of the population). On this basis, Collarenebri is entitled to 3 nursing home places.

* Advice from the Commonwealth Government indicates that the Walgett Shire, in which Collarenebri is situated, is adequately catered for in terms of its planning targets.

* The Department advises that current use of six beds in Collarenebri Hospital to provide aged care is a local decision.

* The NSW Government is committed to the establishment of 50 Multi-Purpose Services in its first term. Preparation for a third round of Multi-Purpose Services is currently underway. Officers of a number of Departments have met to identify communities in which a Multi-Purpose Service is considered to be a priority. Expressions of interest will be called from communities early in 1996. Collarenebri will be considered in this process.

The Hon. R. D. DYER: On 15 November 1995 the Hon. R. S. L. Jones asked the Minister for Fisheries a question without notice. I am pleased to provide the following response from the Minister:

I am aware that Bega Valley Council has opened Lake Cuttagee and Wallaga Lake, and that Eurobodalla Council opened Lake Tilba, Lake Corunna and Lake Coila. I am also aware that these Councils and other coastal councils frequently open many coastal lakes on a needs basis.

The assertion that the opening of south coast lakes including Wallaga, Cuttagee, Coila, Corunna and Tilba has had a devastating impact upon fish stocks is unfounded. The opening of the lakes is likely to have had only a minor or insignificant impact upon fish populations both within the lakes and within coastal waters, generally. This is true for both juvenile and adult populations of Black Bream, Dusky Flathead, prawns and the fifty or sixty other fish species which regularly inhabit these estuaries.

These estuarine lakes naturally open to the sea on an irregular basis at a frequency varying from months to years. When the lake entrances are closed, water levels can rise to the point where they cause serious nuisance flooding of farmlands, roads, private property, public facilities and so on, as a result of inflows from the catchment. In addition, water quality can deteriorate as a result of stormwater flows and flooding of septic tanks and sewage systems, generating public health concerns.

When the lake entrances are open, water levels are reduced, water quality may be improved as a result of tidal flushing, and opportunities for fish movement between the lake and ocean are created. Since most fish and prawn species require access to the open ocean for spawning purposes, the periodic opening of coastal lakes

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is necessary for fish and prawn populations to become rejuvenated within them. Without periodic opening, populations of some fish species within the lakes (especially prawns) may become severely depleted after 18 to 24 months. Research conducted by my Department, NSW Fisheries, has shown that on average, intermittently opening coastal lakes have lower diversity of fish species than do permanently open lakes.

I am advised the Eurobodalla Council is not giving consideration to the opening of Brou Lake.

Local government councils are closely involved with the management of coastal lakes through the Estuary Management Process, and generally undertake the physical works necessary to open lakes. There are clear procedures set down under State Environmental Planning Policy No.35 which local councils need to abide by before taking action to open a lake. In each of the instances referred to above, my Department was consulted prior to the opening being undertaken. In the case of Wallaga Lake, a Departmental biologist was present to monitor the event.

It is clear that the management of coastal lakes, including the question of when they should be opened, is complex. There are a range of issues to be considered, including those of public health and safety, fisheries production and ecosystem protection. The decision to open a lake is necessarily a compromise between a range of competing interests. In general, NSW Fisheries has adequate opportunity to provide input into the decision making process on behalf of fish populations and fish habitats, as do other organisations such as the Department of Land and Water Conservation, the National Parks and Wildlife Service, the Environmental Protection Authority, local community groups, and commercial and recreational fishing organisations.

However, in view of the interest in this issue, it is perhaps timely that it is reviewed. I have therefore decided that the management of such ecologically-sensitive areas as the south coast intermittently opening lakes will be reviewed by my Department in the near future. I will provide you with further information as it comes to hand.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: Yesterday the Leader of the Opposition asked me a question without notice concerning staffing at Kogarah courthouse and the intentions of the Government regarding the future of the courthouse. There seems to be some misapprehension that this Government has instituted staff cutbacks at Kogarah courthouse, but that is not the case. The honourable member may have been referring to a previous reduction of staff at Kogarah from 14 to 12, which occurred under the previous Government when the second courthouse at Kogarah was discontinued. Court closures and staff reductions were so common under the previous Government that he may well have thought that the few vacancies at present existing at Kogarah courthouse were a continuation of those former policies. Let me assure the House and the people of the Kogarah electorate that the cutback policies of the previous Government will not be blindly followed by this Government.

I am advised that recruitment action to fill two vacant positions at Kogarah courthouse is being taken, and the review of staffing at Kogarah will be conducted having regard to the present levels of work and responsibility. Let me also assure the House and the people of Kogarah that the Government has no intention of closing the Kogarah courthouse. The passion of the previous Government for closing courthouses, which saw 40 Local Courts abolished during its term of office, will not be followed by this Government. In relation to the chamber magistrate service at Kogarah, I am advised that it is operating on an appointment basis, which is booked up one week ahead. The chamber magistrate conducts 10 interviews each day, and also assists victims of domestic violence on an urgent basis. Honourable members have to be cautious about giving credence to rumours that are false about whether a courthouse will close. In this case obviously there is no intention to do so.


The Hon. J. W. SHAW: Yesterday the Hon. M. R. Kersten asked me a question without notice about correspondence that had been sent to my office from Mrs Nola Mackay of Bourke concerning attacks on her family's premises. The matter had been taken up some time ago. I am advised that it has been the subject of previous representations from the very active honourable member for Broken Hill, and that the Mackay family has written to my department on a number of occasions in relation to the ongoing problems they have been experiencing. As I noted in my response yesterday, the problems raised by the Mackay family are largely policing matters relating to apprehending those suspected of breaching the criminal law, although a further issue raised with me by the honourable member for Broken Hill involves the Ombudsman's investigations of this matter. The policing issues raised by the Mackay family have been referred for the consideration of the Minister for Police. I have also referred the matters raised in relation to the Ombudsman to the Premier, who has ministerial responsibility for the Ombudsman's office. The House may be assured that I and the Government are concerned about the difficulties faced by the Mackay family, and that everything possible will be done to assist them.


The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 15 November 1995 the Hon. Virginia Chadwick asked me a question about contracting arrangements in the Department of School Education. I have been supplied with the following answer:

(1) The functions to be outsourced are cyclic maintenance for the department's school properties, AS400 computer operations and payroll computer processing (excluding payroll inputs and bureau services).

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(2) The savings to be achieved from outsourcing the identified functions from part of the $17 million identified as savings as a result of the Department of School Education restructure.

(3) Displaced staff will receive every assistance to obtain a suitable alternative position within the department, or to secure a position in another government department. The new departmental staffing establishment already reflects the impact of outsourcing theses functions.

(4) The identified functions to be outsourced will be progressively implemented during 1996 and will parallel the department's restructuring timeline.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 21 November 1995 the Hon. Helen Sham-Ho asked me a question relating to the gender imbalance in the legal profession. I can now inform the honourable member that two of the five new magistrates appointed by me since coming to power are women - Judith Fleming and Sharon Crews. To date I have only appointed one judge of the Supreme Court, a male.


The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 7 December 1995 the Hon. R. S. L. Jones asked a question concerning Boral timber. This question is similar in nature and in content to a question without notice asked by him on 20 November 1995. My response to this question is consistent with that given on 20 November 1995. The Minister for Land and Water Conservation has advised:

The Government's Forest Policy rescheduled logging from high-conservation value old growth forest, identified wilderness areas, and most lightly selectively logged forests and into regrowth forest, some lightly selectively logged forest and plantation forests pending an Interim Assessment by the Resource and Conservation Assessment Council. As a result, negotiations are being carried out with Boral and other long term wood supply agreement holders over their long term wood supply agreements for hardwood sawlogs.

As indicated in the Forestry and Conservation Reforms announced by the Minister for the Environment and the Minister for Land and Water Conservation on 13 June 1995, hardwood quota sawlogs are to be reduced by 30% from July 1996 in coastal regions (and 40% in the Eden Management Area) in order to bring the industry onto a sustainable yield basis. It should be noted that the Minister for Land and Water Conservation has previously stated that these reductions are intended to apply to long term wood supply agreement holders as well as quota holders. The reforms also included a 15% price increase in hardwood logs in recognition of the Government's desire to improve utilisation standards and to increase value adding in the timber industry.

Current hardwood quota sawlog supply commitments are intended to be maintained for twelve months to provide as much certainty as possible to the hardwood timber industry and to allow for the implementation of the restructuring of the industry. This will be followed by a 30% reduction in quotas (40% in the Eden Management Area), and where possible wood supply agreements, for the following twelve months.

This twelve month period prevents an abrupt dislocation of the industry and allows the opportunity to formulate new supply arrangements. Negotiations to vary log allocations, including those with Boral, aim to achieve the Government's Forest Policy objectives.

Importantly, the reforms will allow the development of processes which will lead to the progressive elimination of the quota system as a means of log allocation and, in the interim, allow existing quota holders to trade logs and quota allocations subject to defined conditions.

The eventual outcome under the Government's Forest Policy is a progressive industry with more resource certainty, and extracting the highest level of value for the logs produced in a deregulated market.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 20 November 1995 the Hon. R. S. L. Jones asked me a question about the Government's forest policy. The Minister for Land and Water Conservation has advised:

The Government's Forest Policy rescheduled logging from high-conservation value old growth forest, identified wilderness areas, and most lightly selectively logged forests and into regrowth forest, some lightly selective logged forest, and plantation forests pending an Interim Assessment by the Resource and Conservation Assessment Council. As a result negotiations are being carried out with Boral and other long term wood supply agreement holders over their long term wood supply agreements for hardwood sawlogs.

As indicated in the Forestry and Conservation Reforms announced by the Minister for the Environment and the Minister for Land and Water Conservation on 13 June 1995, hardwood quota sawlogs are to be reduced by 30% from July 1996 in coastal regions (and 40% in the Eden Management Area) in order to bring the industry onto a sustainable yield basis. It should be noted that the Minister for Land and Water Conservation has previously stated that these reductions are intended to apply to long term wood supply agreement holders as well as quota holders. The reforms also included a 15% price increase in hardwood logs in recognition of the Government's desire to improve utilisation standards and to increase value adding in the timber industry.

Current hardwood quota sawlog supply commitments are intended to be maintained for twelve months to provide as much certainty as possible to the hardwood timber industry and to allow for the implementation of the restructuring of the industry. This will be followed by a 30% reduction in quotas (40% in the Eden Management Area), and where possible wood supply agreements, for the following twelve months.

This twelve month period prevents an abrupt dislocation of the industry and allows the opportunity to formulate new supply arrangements. Negotiations to vary log allocations, including those with Boral, aim to achieve the Government's Forest Policy objective.

Importantly, the reforms will allow the development of processes which will lead to the progressive elimination of the quota system as a means of log allocation and, in the interim, allow existing quota holders to trade logs and quota allocations subject to defined conditions.

The eventual outcome under the Government's Forest Policy is a progressive industry with more resource certainty, and extracting the highest level of value of the logs produced in a deregulated market.

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The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 15 December 1995 the Hon. M. R. Kersten asked me a question about staffing at Bourke police station. The Minister for Police has advised:

The Minister for the Police has been advised that Bourke Police Station was not without senior police over the 1993 and 1994 Christmas periods as claimed by the Hon. Mark Kersten MLC. An examination of the rosters revealed that the Patrol Commander and Station Controller were rostered on duty for these periods.

The Patrol Tactician availed himself of two days additional leave from 27 December 1993 to 28 December 1993 and was on annual leave over the 1994 Christmas period.

The Patrol Commander was rostered on duty over the 1995 Christmas period and the Station Controller was on annual leave. This was the first time the Station Controller had taken leave over Christmas since being attached to Bourke in 1992. The Patrol Tactician position has recently been vacated and it is anticipated that this position will be filled late in January 1996.

The Minister for Police has been advised that the comment, "during which time houses have been firebombed, families subjected to terror campaigns", refers to incidents over the 1994 Christmas period. An adult male offender was responsible for the firebombing of houses in Bourke and he also made threats before being arrested and charged by police.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 21 November 1995 the Hon. D. J. Gay asked a question without notice about police numbers at Bowral. The Minister for Police has advised me:

The Honourable Member should be aware that it was the former Coalition Government who failed to build a new police station in Bowral, despite the fact that the then Premier was the local member.

Despite correspondence from the then Minister for Police to the then Treasurer (Mr Collins) and the then Premier (Mr Fahey), the project was not approved by the Coalition before the election on 25 March, 1995. Mr Fahey wrote to the former Minister for Police in February, seeking further information before he would approve the project. It is clear that the former Government and local member failed to ensure that the project would proceed.

Strangely, the former Premier was quoted in the District Times on 15 February, 1995 as follows: "To suggest that the station [Mittagong] is closing is rubbish - it has never been given a thought". This statement was clearly wrong in that the original Police Service proposal was to partially fund the new Bowral station via the sale of Mittagong. A Police Service briefing confirms this fact.

It was the former Minister who expressed his intention not to sell Mittagong via a Memorandum from his Senior Policy Adviser to the Commissioner of Police, dated 14 February, 1995. This of course was only one day before the former Premier was quoted in the local paper. Clearly, the sale was given "a thought" and was not discounted by the Premier, but the former Minister. The Minister for Police can only express surprise that the former Premier was not aware of the Mittagong proposal considering his keen interest in the matter.

The Minister for Police has approved liaison with Wingecarribee Shire Council to preserve options for the construction of a new police station in the future.

(2) (a-b) In March 1995, the actual strength of Bowral Patrol was 51 (including Highway Patrol Officers) and the number of officers actually available for duty was lower than this.

The Minister for Police is pleased to inform the Honourable Member that he has increased the number of police at Bowral Patrol. By 14 February, 1996 the Minister has been advised by the Deputy Commissioner of Police that there will be 54 officers stationed at Bowral Patrol.

In addition, the Minister of Police is delighted to advise that by 14 January, 1996 two General Support Officers will be stationed at Bowral Patrol. These personnel will mean that more police will be relieved from administrative tasks so as to be available for active policing duties.

The Minister for Police can assure the people of Bowral that police resources are constantly under review and that it is his stated aim to put more police where crime is worst. As part of this, the Carr Government will increase the number of available police by 650 by the end of 1998. The people of Bowral will get their fair share.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 22 November 1995 the Hon. Elisabeth Kirkby asked a question about Broderick School. My colleague the Minister for Education and Training has advised:

(1) The Department of School Education is extending its lease of Broderick House for an additional two years. This will enable the relocation of students to be done without rush and with sensitivity.

No matters will be moved in 1996, unless their parents request it.

All parents will be consulted about alternate placements before they are made.

Parents will be encouraged to visit alternate school sites before decisions regarding student placements are made.

A range of sites will be available to students and parents. These include other SSP schools, integrated units and integrated classes.

Where possible, students will be transferred to other locations in groups.

A relocation committee of parents, teachers and departmental officers meet fortnightly to discuss all questions regarding the relocation of students.

(2) The Department of School Education and the Department of Community Services are discussing the provision of specialised care for relocating students.

The quality of education provided for Broderick House students will be maintained in their new locations according to Department of School Education guidelines.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 25 October 1995 the Hon. J. F. Ryan asked a question about Broderick School. The Minister for Education and Training has advised:


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The Northcott Society owns the building occupied by Broderick House School for Specific Purposes and wishes to sell it. The Department has decided not to buy the building, given the $1 million purchase price and $300,000 needed to upgrade facilities to the required standard.

Options exist for the appropriate placement of Broderick House students in neighbouring SSP schools, special units in primary and secondary schools and integrated school settings for the more able students.

Each student placement will be negotiated with parents and parents will not be rushed.

To facilitate a gradual withdrawal from the Northcott Society premises which are to be sold, the Department has negotiated a new two year lease on the building with the option of a one year lease extension. This will mean all students can be placed in other appropriate schools at a time that suits then and their parents.

Parents will be able to visit alternative appropriate schools and discuss educational issues with the teachers at those schools.

Where possible, students will be transferred to other schools in groups.

Officers of the Department are meeting with parents each fortnight to discuss the best way forward.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 7 December 1995 the Hon. D. J. Gay asked a question about reduced numbers at Bundanoon police station. The Minister for Police has advised:

The former Government reduced the authorised strength of Bundanoon sector from two to one in June 1994.

Prior to the election, the Minister for Police advised a public meeting that they should approach their local member, the then Premier, about their concerns - that Bundanoon was entitled to a level of policing commensurate to the town's needs - and, as Premier he should be able to attend to those needs. He failed to do so.

A 24 hour police presence is needed. The Minister for Police is advised that a call diversion system via Bowral and/or Goulburn is capable of contacting the Bundanoon Officer when he is on patrol.

As these measures indicate, the Minister for Police is continuing to take steps to resolve the grievances the Bundanoon community experienced as a result of seven years of Coalition neglect.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 13 December 1995 the Hon. I. Cohen asked a question about development at Byron Bay. The Minister for Local Government has advised:

(1) The Minister for Local Government has received representations from residents of Byron Bay informing him of apparent intention of the Byron Shire Council to seek to acquire Crown land for the purpose stated.

(2) No.

(3) No.

(4) The Council may only acquire land by compulsory process in accordance with the Land Acquisition (Just Terms Compensation) Act 1991. Under that Act, the compulsory acquisition process usually commences with the giving by the Council of a proposed acquisition notice. Section 187(2) of the Local Government Act 1993 provides that the Council may not give a proposed acquisition notice without the approval of the Minister for Local Government.

While there are circumstances in which the giving of a proposed acquisition notice is not necessary, from the information available those circumstances would not appear to be applicable in the case referred to in the question.

In the case of Crown land where the native title rights and interests may be an issue, relevant provisions of the Commonwealth Native Title Act 1993 and the Native Title (New South Wales) Act 1994 must be observed, or any purported acquisition action taken by the Council could be invalid.

Particular provisions of those Acts apply where the purpose of the acquisition includes conferring interests in relation to land on persons other than the acquiring body. On the information available to the Minister, the Byron Shire Council proposes to sell the land referred to in the question, and this would make the action subject to those legislative provisions.

Another factor is that, under section 188 of the Local Government Act, the Council is prevented from acquiring land by compulsory process without the approval of the owner of the land if it is being acquired for the purpose of re-sale. In the case of Crown land, unless it is certain that native title rights and interests do not exist, the approval of the relevant registered native title holder of the land, as well as the relevant Crown agency involved, would be required before the land could be compulsorily acquired for the purpose of re-sale.

Having regard to the foregoing, it would be premature for the Minister to indicate whether he would approve any particular application which may be submitted by the Byron Shire Council for approval to acquire by compulsory process the land referred to in the question. It may be that, other considerations apart, acquisition of the land by compulsory process is prevented by section 188 of the Local Government Act.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 14 December 1995 the Hon. C. J. S. Lynn asked a question about an inmate of Goulburn gaol. The Minister for Corrective Services has advised:

It is assumed that the inmate referred to by the Honourable Member is Brett Clem Cross. At the time of the offence Brett Cross was classified as a maximum security inmate and was on segregation. Inmates are segregated from the general prison population when they have misbehaved. There is no special protection unit at Goulburn Correctional Centre, however, there is a protection area. Inmates on protection have expressed fears for their safety and have asked to be located to that area. The assault referred to by the Honourable Member took place when Cross and three other inmates rushed out of the segregation yard pushing an officer aside to get through a gate into the protection yard where they attacked two other inmates. Normal staffing levels existed in the segregation and protection areas at the time of the incident.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 10 October 1995 the Hon. Elaine Nile asked a question concerning the death of police officers at Crescent Head. The Minister for Police has advised:

The State Coroner, Mr D Hand, conducted an inquest into the deaths of Senior Constables Addison and Spears at the Kempsey Coroner's Court on 13 October 1995. Mr Hand found that Senior Constable Spears died of the effects of a

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gunshot wound to the head whilst Senior Constable Addison died of the effects of a gunshot wound to the chest. He commented that if the two officers had been wearing bullet resistant vest they still would not have been saved because of where the bullets entered their bodies.

Following the Crescent Head tragedy, the Minister for Police requested the Commissioner of Police to set up a Bullet Resistant Vest Committee to review the whole position of the issue and use of body armour to police. That Committee unanimously agreed that the current specifications for vests were entirely appropriate to police needs and protection and would be maintained as the minimum standard for future purchases.

The Committee determined that a total of 2,059 vests were required for distribution to and use by primary response vehicle crews. These crews are the most likely to first attend scenes and are the most vulnerable if violence ensues.

The obtaining of additional bullet resistant vests is the top priority for capital investment by the Police Service and it is anticipated that the successful tenderer will have completed the order within the financial year.

The Coroner found that a semiautomatic pistol is unlikely to have prevented the death of Senior Constable Spears who was killed in the early stages of the confrontation. Senior Constable Addison on the other hand was holding an empty revolver when he was shot dead. He had dropped his reload strip some six metres away in the dark. The Coroner speculated that the availability of additional ammunition in a semiautomatic handgun may have better enabled Senior Constable Addison to better defend himself.

The Coroner has made a number of recommendations to the Minister for Police and the Commissioner for Police and those recommendations are currently being carefully addressed by the New South Wales Police Service. In particular, Mr Hand recommended that "the question of the suitability of the present Police Service weapon being currently looked at by the working party set up by the Assistant Commissioner of Police be given urgent attention particularly as to the supply and issue of self loading weapon with magazine."

The working party will determine the general question of the suitability of the present police service weapon, taking into consideration:

• Whether the present issue service weapon is suitable or if a change is necessary.

• The type and specification of appropriate replacements, if replacement is recommended.

• Appropriate standards for the issue, safe custody and use of a new issue service weapon.

• The training required to effect the transition.

• The total cost of the introduction of a new service weapon.

The working party has commenced its investigation and has undertaken an extensive review of the firearm requirements of the Police Service.

Specifications for a replacement firearm are being developed and a Sub-Committee is examining the areas of ammunition, training and carriage.

The Minister for Police has asked the working party to complete its review as soon as possible.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 11 December 1995 the Hon. C. J. S. Lynn asked a question about Darren Leigh James. The Minister for Corrective Services has advised:

Darren Leigh James did not contact the periodic detention centre and advise that he was sick. Mr James is recorded as being absent without leave for the detention period in question.

Whether or not Mr James was found to be in possession of cannabis resin is a matter for the police and the courts.

Under the current Periodic Detention of Prisoners Act, any periodic detainee absent without leave is required to attend for a replacement detention period plus an additional penalty detention period. If absent without leave on three occasions the Department of Corrective Services takes action through the courts to have the sentence of periodic detention cancelled. Generally, a full-time custodial sentence is then imposed.

At present, Mr James is required to serve the remainder of his periodic sentence. If he is convicted of another offence he will be punished as the court determines.

The Minister has recently introduced a Bill requiring periodic detainees claiming illness to submit to an examination by a Government Medical Officer. The Bill also increases the penalty for breaching a periodic detention order from the current two weeks to a maximum of six weeks.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 13 December 1995 the Hon. D. F. Moppett asked a question concerning school competitions and cultural exhibitions. The Minister for Education and Training has advised:

Department of School Education Regions continue to operate, and in 1996 regional sporting competitions and cultural exhibitions will be managed and conducted in exactly the same way as in past years.

During 1996, extensive consultation will take place with a wide range of interest groups to determine future management and operation of all these activities. The Department's new structure includes a significant number of staff who will have responsibility for developing and managing sporting and cultural activities across the State.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 7 December 1995 the Hon. R. S. L. Jones asked a question about the protection of dingoes. The Minister for the Environment has advised:

Although the dingo is listed as `unprotected' under Schedule 11 of the National Parks and Wildlife Act 1974, the dingo is not declared a noxious species under the Rural Lands Protection Act 1989 as long as it remains on service land.

The National Parks and Wildlife Service considers the dingo to be part of the native fauna of NSW which it has a responsibility to conserve and aims to maintain existing populations of dingoes.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 14 December 1995 the Hon. Elisabeth Kirkby asked a question concerning discrimination in schools. The Minister for Education and Training has advised:

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With regards to the first part of the question the answer is, yes.

With regards to the second part the answer is, yes.

The third part is not applicable.

As to the fourth part of the question, the effectiveness of the policy is being monitored and it will be reviewed when necessary.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 19 September 1995 the Hon. I. Cohen asked a question concerning the environmental education policy of the Government. The Minister for Education and Training has advised:

The Department of School Education's Environmental Curriculum Statement, K-12, makes it mandatory for environmental education to be taught across all key learning areas. In implementing the requirements of the curriculum statement, schools can take advantage of the opportunities provided by the 19 specialist Field Studies Centres located throughout New South Wales.

Environmental Education has a high priority in New South Wales schools:

•a team in the Board of Studies is at present undertaking the development of guiding principles to inform syllabus developers on ways to infuse environmental education into the various syllabuses.

•a report of a quality assurance review on the status of environmental education in Department of School Education schools is due to be released in the near future.

Other activities taking place within the Department of School Education include:

•a revision of the Greening of Schools Program to reflect the holistic nature of environmental education at the school level.

•the collation of existing environmental education resources to form a data base to be placed on Internet.

•the revision of the field studies centre operation to ensure optimum use of their resources and to maximise the opportunity for schools to access their services.

•maintaining a close liaison with government agencies, environmental organisation such as the Gould League of NSW, community groups and various environmental projects such as Streamwatch in order to integrate them into environmental education programs in schools.

I wish to assure the Hon. Ian Cohen that the Department of School Education is giving environmental education a top priority in government schools.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 14 November 1995 the Hon. M. R. Kersten asked a question about Broken Hill gaol. The Minister for Corrective Services has advised:

The Minister, like the residents of Broken Hill, was gravely concerned about this incident and instigated a full inquiry into the matter.

As a result, the classification levels of the inmates and their placement at Broken Hill Correctional Centre, a medium security facility, were found to be appropriate given the nature of the offences for which they were sentenced and their progress through the correctional system.

At the Minister's instruction, the Department of Corrective Services also contacted the family of the man assaulted during the incident and offered all possible assistance.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 13 December 1995 the Hon. R. S. L. Jones asked a question concerning pollution on the Fairstar. The Minister for the Environment has advised:

1. The Australian Maritime Safety Authority (AMSA) is coordinating investigations into the source of the waste material which washed up at Evans Head. The Environment Protection Authority and, as the Minister for the Environment understands, the Waterways Authority are liaising closely with AMSA as these investigations continue. Should the investigations indicate that the waste came from the Fairstar, various actions may be instigated.

Where the dumping of waste takes place from an Australian ship outside the territorial sea of NSW, it may be an offence against the Protection of the Sea (Prevention of Pollution from Ships) Act 1983 (Cth), which is administered by the Commonwealth and enforced by the Australian Maritime Safety Authority. However, under international law and Commonwealth legislation, ships are able to dispose of certain garbage when a specific distance from land.

There may also be a role for the Clean Waters Act 1970 to be applied with respect to waste in local seas. This Act is administered by the Environment Protection Authority and penalties of up to $1,000,000 for corporations or $250,000 for individuals and 7 years gaol can be imposed for breaches of the Clean Waters Act 1970 under the Environmental Offences and Penalties Act 1989.

At this stage, the AMSA is conducting the investigation with a view to establishing liability under the Commonwealth Act.

2. As responsibility for shipping within NSW waters rests with the Waterways Authority, which falls within the portfolio of the Hon. Carl Scully, MP, Minister for Ports, the question is more appropriately directed to him.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 13 December 1995 the Hon. R. S. L. Jones asked a question about State forest fauna licences. The Minister for the Environment has advised:

1. The National Parks and Wildlife Service has issued a total of 47 Section 120 licences to State Forests of NSW. Forty five (96%) of these are temporary licences, and two (4%) are general licences.

2. All of these temporary licences were issued prior to the publication of the Revised (Interim) Schedule 12 to the National Parks and Wildlife Act in the gazette on 28 February 1992. Consistent with the provisions of that Act (as amended by the Endangered Fauna (Interim Protection) Act 1991), Section 120 licences issued before that date did not require a Fauna Impact Statement.

3. The savings and transitional provisions of the Threatened Species Conservation Act 1995 extend those licences to which Section 4 of the Endangered Fauna (Interim Protection) Amendment Act 1992 applied. This includes all the temporary licences issued to State Forests of NSW before 28 February 1992. Under the provisions of the Threatened Species Conservation Act, these licences will no longer be required once environmental impact statements are determined.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 20 November 1995 the Hon. Elisabeth Kirkby asked a question concerning gun control. The Minister for Police has advised:

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He was made aware of the poll conducted by the North Sydney Council.

The firearms legislation, as it presently stands, is a result of extensive deliberations by a Joint Parliamentary Select Committee on Gun Reform in 1991. The Government's policy on the ownership and use of firearms is embodied in the Firearms Act and Regulations. No changes will be made except on the basis of bipartisan recommendations by any future Select Committee on Firearms.

The present firearms and prohibited weapons laws endeavour to provide effective control of lawful access to firearms. There are severe penalties for the unlawful possession (imprisonment up to ten years in the case of pistols and five years for rifles or shotguns) and the criminal use of firearms (imprisonment up to 25 years).

Whilst the Government will not remove the right of law abiding private gun owners to possess and use firearms, criminal and irresponsible users will be relentlessly pursued and prosecuted.

The Government's Firearms Amnesty encourages unlicensed firearm owners to surrender their guns and prohibitive knives. The Amnesty will also encourage shooters to join the licensing system by waiving the licence fee until the end of June 1996 and a direct mail campaign will follow up expired licences.

The Amnesty has already resulted in the surrender of over 2000 weapons. The Minister for Police is confident it will also help to achieve more effective licensing of firearm owners in New South Wales.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 21 September 1995 the Hon. J. S. Tingle asked a question about the use of firearms. The Minister for Police has advised:

He has been advised that Mr Steve Palmer, the owner of the firearm responsible for the death of Dali Handmer Pleshet was breached for offences under section 7(2) and 12(1) of the Firearms Act 1989, shortly after the tragic incident.

Mr Palmer was a crucial witness in the manslaughter proceedings against Mr Shane Evans and therefore all matters against Mr Palmer were adjourned to a date to be fixed after the trial of Shane Evans for manslaughter.

The two firearms offences against Mr Palmer are now in the process of being re-listed before the Mudgee Local Court and the Minister for Police has been advised that the matter will be finalised in the next few months.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 14 December 1995 the Hon. R. S. L. Jones asked a question about flying foxes. The Minister for the Environment has advised:

1. The National Parks and Wildlife Service has not issued any licences to non-commercial fruit growers on the Central Coast to cull flying-foxes. All properties were inspected to verify that damage was being caused to commercial crops before licences were issued.

2. The claim that orchardists have advertised for shooters to assist in protection of fruit crops cannot be substantiated.

3. Licences are issued to landholders to cull protected fauna only when the grower can demonstrate that the animals are causing economic hardship. Shooting is used as a means of protecting crops from flying-fox attacks, but it is not possible, in the field, to discriminate between lactating mothers and other flying-foxes.

The issue of licences to shoot flying-foxes is not the preferred practice for the protection of fruit crops. The National Parks and Wildlife Service will be negotiating with NSW agriculture and industry to phase out shooting as a means of mitigating damage caused by flying-foxes.

4. No.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 20 November 1995 the Hon. I. Cohen asked a question concerning investment in forestry plantation. The Minister for Land and Water Conservation has advised:

These and associated matters have been discussed at length with the Honourable Member and have been considered in the Member's Estimate Committee Question On Notice, and also in my response to the Hon. Mr Jones' Question On Notice 277.

The expansion of hardwood plantations is a major component of the Government's Forestry Policy. The Policy includes a commitment to increase State Forests' hardwood plantation program to an establishment rate of 10,000 hectares per year by 1997/98.

The aim of the State Forests Eucalypt Plantation Program is to expand the area of productive forest by planting eucalypt plantations on non-forested private lands under joint venture agreements and on State forests and other Crown Lands as appropriate.

In the year ending 30 June 1995, 1,242 hectares of hardwood plantations were established under joint venture agreements with 60 landowners and a further 505 hectares were established on State forest and on land purchased as part of the Program. The majority of the areas planted were on the north coast in the Grafton - Casino area with smaller plantings near Kempsey, Taree, Gloucester and Bombala.

The aim of the plantation program for 1995/96 is to plant 3000 hectares of plantation predominantly by way of joint venture between State Forests and land owners. To date 31 joint venture agreements covering 1,389 hectares have been signed for the 1995/96 planting year.

State Forests consult regularly with officers of the Department of Land and Water Conservation and the Environmental Protection Authority in relation to the establishment of eucalypt plantations.

The Government has introduced State Environmental Planning Policy (SEPP) 46 to protect and manage native vegetation. Under the requirements of SEPP 46, clearing of native vegetation, unless exempt, requires that an application be made to the Department of Land and Water Conservation for consent to clear.

Where the exemptions under SEPP 46 are not applicable, State Forests will make an application to the Department of Land and Water Conservation for approval to clear native vegetation in the course of site preparation for plantation establishment.

The Mt Pikapene joint venture, as indicated earlier, has been outlined in my reply to the Hon. Richard Jones' Question On Notice 277 and also by correspondence directly with Mr Cohen.

It should be noted that Parliament has enacted the Timber Plantation (Harvest Guarantee) Act addressing key disincentives which inhibit the establishment of environmentally sound, bona fide plantations. The Act provides for the harvesting of suitably accredited plantations to be exempt from various planning and environmental assessment requirements. This exemption will provide landholders and potential investors with a guarantee that they will be able to harvest their plantation when it matures provided they adhere to a plantation

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harvesting code. The Act expressly prevents native forest from being reclassified as plantations and also provides for accreditation of plantations that conform with SEPP.

It is essential that broad community support be given to the plantation program to encourage landholders to enter into joint venture agreements. A significant increase in landholder participation is required to meet the plantation establishment objectives which are shared by the Government, the timber industry, and the environment movement.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 16 November 1995 the Deputy Leader of the Opposition asked a question regarding the safety of the Minister for Gaming and Racing. The Minister for Police has advised:

The Minister for Gaming and Racing, the Honourable J R Face MP requested Special Branch assistance for a scheduled visit to the Riverina area from 8-9 November 1995.

The Deputy Commissioner of Police has advised me that the use of Special Branch security liaison officer familiar with the Principal and his party, working with a local police officer, is a cost effective and efficient means of conducting a low level security escort. It meets one of the Branch responsibilities and reduces the need to divert local police resources.

The Special Branch security liaison role is of long standing and has been provided to members of present and past State and Federal Governments. Ministerial protection is part of the normal duties of the Special Branch.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 23 November 1995 the Deputy Leader of the Opposition asked a question concerning flooding of the Gwydir River. The Minister for Land and Water Conservation has advised:

The Minister for Land and Water Conservation is well aware of the rainfall and river flow situation in the Gwydir Valley over the past few weeks, and can assure the Honourable Member that he is honouring the Government's commitment for distribution of this water, despite intense pressure on the Department of Land and Water Conservation from the former Member for Barwon and others to do otherwise.

The once extensive Gwydir Wetlands have been severely affected by years of drought, which has been exacerbated by the priority given under the previous governments' for irrigation use of flow in the river. The Government's water reform package, announced in early September, included immediate measures to protect the wetlands from any further degradation by giving them a better share of any unregulated flow, which might occur in the Gwydir this summer.

At the same time, the Government recognised the plight of irrigators who were entering their fourth year without an initial allocation of water to establish a crop. The priority proposed for the wetland watering was waived to allow irrigators up to 60,000 megalitres for pre-watering of cropland if any river flows occurred during the critical time for crop planting. This allowance was reduced only when it was established that there had been enough rainfall to complete planting without further irrigation.

As a result of the recent river flow and these measures, the Gwydir Wetlands have received an inflow of over 100,000 megalitres, the quantity estimated as needed to avert the immediate crisis for its survival. For the balance of this season, any further natural high flows that might occur will be shared on a 50:50 basis between the wetlands and the irrigators. In addition, the rainfall has resulted in sufficient inflow into Copeton Dam to permit allocation of 10% of entitlement for irrigators, which will be invaluable for ensuring the survival of the current crops if there is no further rain.

The Hon. J. W . SHAW: On 7 December 1995 the Hon. Helen Sham-Ho asked a question about organised crime in Hong Kong. The Minister for Police has advised:

Whilst there are several schools of thought, there is no evidence to support or refute the suggestion that there will be an influx of organised criminals from Hong Kong in 1997. The current consensus within the New South Wales Police Service, based on ongoing intelligence assessments, is that there will not be a significant movement of these crime groups to Australia for the following reasons:-

• The remote physical location of Australia with a small population is not conducive to large scale organised criminal operations compared to Canada and the United States of America.

• Infiltration of Hong Kong based criminals to Australia on a large scale would cause territorial disputes and would destabilise existing criminal markets, and

• Immigration checks and balances would not allow any mass infiltration of organised criminals into Australia.

Australian law enforcement agencies are continuing to identify Hong Kong based criminals who visit or reside in Australia. The NSW police are vigilant in policing this area and there is an ongoing close liaison between the State Intelligence Group, Drug Enforcement Agency, Organised Crime Branch, Major Crime Squads and Patrols which have large scale Asian populations and with other law enforcement agencies including the Australian Federal Police.

The Honourable Member will recall that on 4 October 1995, The Minister for Police announced that Task Force OAK would become a permanent unit of the Organised Crime Branch. The unit would comprise 30 investigators and would be responsible for the statewide investigation of crimes committed against the Asian community including acts of violence, intimidation and/ or extortion. The unit has since been permanently formed and has established a regular interchange program with the Victoria Police Asian Crime Squad.

Recruitment is also currently in progress for 26 Asian Crime Investigators, fluent in spoken and written Chinese dialect and/or Vietnamese, who are to be deployed to the Drug Enforcement Agency, State Intelligence Group, Major Crime Squads and the OAK Investigation Unit. The placement of 3 of these investigators to the OAK Investigation Unit will bring that unit to full strength.

Other initiatives introduced with the Police Service include:-

• Involvement of the Drug Enforcement Agency in several joint agency operations including Task Force COLTSFOOT which is targeting the supply of drugs at street level in the Cabramatta area with assistance from the Australian Federal Police;

• Formation of the State Commander's Asian Crime Advisory Group to consider and develop policy and policing strategies relating to Asian crime and to make appropriate recommendations to the State Commander; and

• Formation of local Asian Crime Committees within Patrols which have large Asian populations; and

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• Asian Crime Intelligence meetings each month in Cabramatta attended by Patrol Intelligence Officers and analysts from other specialised areas within the Police Service including the Drug Enforcement Agency, State Intelligence Group and the OAK Investigation Unit to discuss policing activities and exchange information and intelligence.

The Minister for Police trusts the initiatives he has highlighted will assure the Honourable Member that the NSW Government is committed to eliminating Asian organised crime.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 11 October 1995 the Hon. Virginia Chadwick asked a question without notice concerning Hurlstone Agricultural High School. The Minister for Education and Training has advised:

(1) The State Rail Authority had proposed the acquisition of approximately 9 hectares at Hurlstone Agricultural High School as part of several proposed railworks in the vicinity of Hurlstone Agricultural High School, including a rail link to Badgerys Creek Airport.

Site meetings have been held since July to gauge the impact of the proposal on the school's current operation. A new proposal reduces the land to be acquired to 4.45 hectares from Hurlstone Agricultural High School and 1.73 hectares from Scots College land to the south of Hurlstone Agricultural High School. The impact of this new proposal is yet to be determined. Currently, the proposal is open for wide community consultation.

Following consideration of the revised State Rail Authority proposal by the school community at Hurlstone and a full assessment of the impact of the proposed route by the Department of School Education, advice will be provided to the Minister for Education and Training. No final decision will be made on the proposal until the end of the consultation processes that are presently being undertaken.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 6 December 1995 Reverend the Hon. F. J. Nile asked a question concerning the use of Hyde Park for functions. The Minister for Local Government has advised:

(1):
• The Sydney City Council has not adopted a formal policy for renting out Hyde Park North

• The Council has previously approved private use of parts of Hyde Park North for various events. Applications for such approval are currently considered by the Council using guidelines and standard conditions applying to street parades, marches, rallies and other public assemblies in Council-controlled places.

• The Council at its meeting on 11 December 1995 considered a report from its Cultural and City Services Committee proposing a draft policy specifically relating to private use of Hyde Park North. The Council did not adopt the draft policy, but decided to refer the matter back to the Committee for further consideration. The next meeting of the Committee is due to be held in February 1996.

(2):
• This would appear to be the effect of the draft policy, if adopted, although activities that would restrict general public access to more that half the Park would not be permitted. Also, the draft policy would exclude from private use paved pathways in the part of the park involved other than during the core hours of the event concerned; the Archibald Fountain and the pathway around its perimeter; and Sandringham Gardens.

(3):
• No discussions have been held with the Minister for Local Government, nor has the Minister given any approvals in respect of the matter. However, approval of the Minister is not required.

• It is relevant to note that Hyde Park is Crown land under the management of the Council as trustee. Crown land matters come within the administration of the Minister for Land and Water Conservation. The Council has noted that the endorsement of the Minister for Land and Water Conservation will be required for any proposal that alienates a majority of the Park, interferes with through access, or charges a fee for admission to any part of the Park.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 14 December 1995 the Hon. Patricia Forsythe asked a question regarding the Bondi Icebergs Club. The Minister for Land and Water Conservation has advised:

Waverley Council has recently advised the Minister for Land and Water Conservation, that it wishes to resign its office as Manager, Bondi Baths Reserve Trust.

There have been ongoing discussions between Waverley Council, Bondi Icebergs Club and the Department of Land and Water Conservation for some considerable time in an effort to find a solution to a number of matters affecting the Reserve, including the condition of the building.

The Government has been closely monitoring the situation, hoping that a resolution might be reached by the parties concerned.

However, in view of the decision by Waverley Council to seek release as trust manager the Minister for Land and Water Conservation has sought additional detailed advice from his department. He is not yet in a position to advise the Honourable member of a final decision in this matter.

The Hon. J . W. SHAW: On 13 November 1995 the Hon. Patricia Forsythe asked a question about jury bias. In response I refer to the answer I have already given in the Legislative Council, and add the following information. I have been advised by Dr Don Weatherburn, the Director of the Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research, that he is not aware of any studies that have been published or prepared in relation to the alleged bias of female jurors against female victims of domestic violence. The Jury Task Force established in my department is not familiar with any studies done in this area in Australia. I note that under section 68A of the Jury Act it is not legal in this State to speak to jurors about their deliberations without the permission of the Attorney General. I am unaware of any such permission having been granted by any of my immediate predecessors.


The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 21 September 1995 the Hon. Elisabeth Kirkby asked a question without notice in relation to Gregory Wayne Kable.
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I refer to the answer I have already given in the Legislative Council, and add the following information. Mr Kable lodged an appeal to the High Court challenging constitutionality of the Community Protection (Gregory Wayne Kable) Act prior to his release from custody. He was granted leave to appeal by the High Court. Mr Kable was granted legal aid in relation to his appeal. The Legal Aid Commission made this decision after consideration of an opinion from Sir Maurice Byers, QC. In granting special leave to appeal, the High Court acknowledged that this is a matter worthy of determination by it. Although the High Court noted that Mr Kable may be released by the time the matter is heard, it also acknowledged that he may still be the subject to the Act and so the question of constitutionality was not merely an academic question. It is estimated that the total cost of the appeal will be approximately $7,500.


The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 13 December 1995 the Hon. D. F. Moppett asked a question about Lake Eyre. The Minister for the Environment has advised:

1. Yes.

2. Yes.

3. The Commonwealth Department of the Environment, Sport and Territories began the assessment of the South Australian sector of the Lake Eyre basin for World Heritage values in 1995. The study area for both natural and cultural World Heritage values is limited to the wetland systems (primarily but not exclusively the Coongie Lakes, lower Cooper Creek system and the Goyder Lagoon systems), the Mound Springs of the great Artesian Basin, and the salt lake environments of Lake Eyre. No New south Wales lands are included in the study area.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 18 October 1995 the Hon. I. Cohen asked a question about licences for endangered species. The Minister for the Environment has advised:

The National Parks and Wildlife Service views any action which may impact upon threatened species very seriously indeed. Further, a criminal prosecution which carries significant penalties must be thoroughly and properly investigated. The investigation of the allegations against State Forests of New South Wales in the Pine Creek State Forest is proceeding in order to ensure that any future prosecution decision is based on the best available evidence.

The service is also currently involved in preparing a Koala Management Plan in conjunction with State Forests of New South Wales with a view to establishing an effective and clear basis for future protection of koalas in the area.

The National Parks and Wildlife Service and NSW State Forests are finalising the consultants brief for the preparation of the plan and an appointment of a consultant is imminent. Of course, during this period no logging has occurred in the Pine Creek State Forest.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 13 December 1995 the Hon. Elisabeth Kirkby asked a question about nature-based tourism. The Minister for the Environment has advised:

1. Yes.

2. The Director-General of NPWS has advised that the service is aware of a wide range of publications on nature based tourism. However, without a more explicit reference it can not be certain that it is aware of the report referred to by the Hon. Elisabeth Kirkby.

3. Without knowing what study the Hon. Elisabeth Kirkby is referring to, the Minister for the Environment can not state whether the NSW Government is considering undertaking a similar study.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 24 October 1995 the Hon. Elisabeth Kirkby asked me a question about legal services for migrant women. I undertook then to inquire into the precise timing of the report. I can confirm that I expect a report from the committee by the end of this year. If I may explain a little of the background of the committee and its work, the honourable member will appreciate that the timing of the report is quite appropriate.

The "Quarter Way to Equal Report" was released in October of last year. It was commissioned by the Women's Legal Resources Centre and funded by the Law Foundation. The report makes 53 recommendations for change to improve access to the legal system by non-English speaking people. It nominates at least 16 New South Wales organisations as having responsibilities to act jointly or independently under the recommendations. Some of these organisations are community organisations providing services to non-English speaking women, others are government agencies, such as my department, that also have a key role.

The implementation committee was convened at the beginning of this year in response to the recommendations of the report. It is an independent committee with expertise in the area of service to non-English speaking women, comprising six members of the community and a representative from my department. Under its terms of reference the committee is to coordinate responses from agencies and organisations as to their adoption of the report's recommendations and steps so far taken to achieve implementation. Where recommendations are opposed the committee is to seek appropriate alternatives for achieving the relevant aims of the report. It was estimated at the outset that the committee's task would take at least nine months.

The committee first met on 16 March. In the past seven months it has conducted 10 meetings. It has sought information on the implementation of the report's recommendations from the 16 State
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organisations referred to in the report. Naturally, it took some time to obtain responses, and these required due analysis by the committee. Since the beginning of September the committee has sat weekly in order to interview representatives of the respondents. It is anticipated that this phase of the committee's work will be completed by mid-November. Once this process is complete it will be in a position to report to me on its findings and to make its recommendations.

As I have previously said, the committee's work involves a broad analysis of social and legal problems in its examination of difficult policy issues. It is not a task that could be or should be completed hastily. The committee comprises some members of the community who are giving their time on a voluntary basis. They are working tirelessly on this important matter. I am satisfied that the committee's report cannot be expedited.


The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 21 November 1995 the Hon. R. S. L. Jones asked a question without notice about Northparkes Mine. I have been advised by the Minister for the Environment as follows:

• Yes.

• The Government is very concerned over the recent bird deaths that have occurred at the Northparks Mine and is determined to ensure that similar deaths do not occur. The company involved is ceasing to process gold at the mine thereby eliminating further cyanide use.

• The tailings dam, which is part of the water recycling system of the mine, is used to prevent slurries containing cyanide from discharging to the environment. As an outcome of the Northparkes incident the EPA is considering the need to place limits on cyanide levels in tailings dams used by gold mine.

• It is believed that the greater than normal influx of birds at the tailings dam is because of the drought displaced birds seeking new habitat.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 25 October 1995 the Hon. J. M. Samios asked a question without notice about security for the Olympic Games. The Minister for Police has advised:

On 8 June 1995, the Premier issued a Memorandum directing all statements about the Olympics and Paralympic Games should be made by the Minister for the Olympics or the Premier.

Accordingly, an appropriate response to this question must be sought from either the Premier, or our colleague, the Minister for Olympics.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 20 September the Hon. Elaine Nile asked a question without notice about paedophiles. The Minister for Police has advised:

The Police Service is not in possession of any information or intelligence to support these allegations, and there is no current investigation concerning the allegations. Should intelligence be forthcoming, at any time, the Police Service will conduct a full and proper investigation.

The Police Service is committed to the detection and investigation of child abuse. There are currently 14 Child Protection Investigation teams and two Joint Investigation teams working in partnership with the Department of Community Services as a unified front against child abuse. Other initiatives include an extensive intelligence network throughout the State and community awareness programs such as "Operation Paradox".

The Minister for Police has recently announced the formation of a Child Protection Enforcement Agency. An implementation team has commenced work to establish the Agency by the 1st January, 1996. That Agency will have the capacity to aggressively and proactively target paedophile activity, and will establish direct liaison with Federal child protection investigators.

It might be noted that a newly formed task force has commenced to investigate particular paedophile activity, although not related to this issue.

Finally, it should be remembered that the Royal Commission will be investigating alleged links between police and paedophiles. It was the Labor Party who voted to establish the Royal Commission and we will await the findings on this matter with interest.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 12 October 1995 the Leader of the Opposition asked me a question without notice. In response to the honourable member's question I have caused inquiries to be made into the matters raised. I can confirm that Peter Hilton James Newman failed to appear in Griffith Supreme Court to answer a charge of murder on 19 July 1995 and that His Honour Justice Grove did order that a bench warrant issue for the arrest of Newman on that charge. I can further advise the House that there is no record on the court papers or with the Central Warrant Index of that bench warrant ever having been issued and Justice Grove has no recollection of signing such a warrant. I am unable to state why the warrant was not issued, other than administrative oversight by those responsible for doing so. I can inform the House that Justice Grove has now signed the bench warrant for Newman and it has been forwarded to the Central Warrant Index.

However, I can also indicate that on 19 July 1995 there was already a warrant in existence for the apprehension of Newman for the breach of his bail conditions. That warrant had been taken out on 11 July 1995. Inquiries also reveal that Newman did not appear at Griffith Court as he was already in custody in Queensland on that date and this was known to the police and to the officer of the Director of Public Prosecutions handling this matter. Inquiries with Rockhampton gaol indicate that Newman is facing serious charges in both the District Court and the Magistrates Court. He has not been convicted of an offence and is being held on remand only. He was due to appear in the District Court at Emerald on 16 October 1995, and is due in Rockhampton Magistrates Court on 6 November 1995. Finally, I can advise the House that I have written to the Hon. Paul Whelan, MP, Minister for Police, and asked him to raise with the police commissioner Newman's extradition to New South Wales to face this serious charge.

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The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 12 October 1995 the Hon. Elaine Nile asked a question without notice about Reef Beach. The Minister for the Environment has advised:

The new Mayor of Manly, Ms Sue Sacker has certainly expressed the view that Manly Council is opposed to the designation of Reef Beach as a nude bathing beach.

While the Manly Council was elected to serve the interests of the Manly area the State Government was democratically elected to serve the interests of both Manly and the broader NSW electorate. The State Government's policy expressed prior to the election was to declare Reef Beach as a beach for nude bathing because of its long history as a beach designated for this purpose.

It is interesting to note that a recent report in the Sun Herald quoted Ms Sacker as using a police report which referred to eight (8) alleged incidents of offensive behaviour in the Manly area as an argument in support of the beach's as a clad bathing beach. The article failed to point out, however, that five (a majority) of these offences actually occurred while the beach was a clad beach.

The Government recognises that individuals in the community have a right to commune with nature in a natural state. The Minister for the Environment has received numerous items of correspondence from ordinary members of the community who represent the views of families, including mothers and children, who support nude bathing in certain areas.

Most beaches in NSW would tend to attract a voyeuristic element by the mere fact that people are either unclad or wear swimwear. The people that have made representations to the Minister of the Environment in support of nude bathing, are opposed to voyeurism in any form and are keen to pursue their legitimate pastime in a responsible manner.

Rather than support nude bathing on every NSW beach the Government is moving to restrict these passive recreational activities to certain designated beaches. Cabinet will deliberate on the issue in the near future.

I thank the Honourable Member for her question.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 13 December 1995 the Hon. Patricia Forsythe asked a question without notice about Reef Beach. The Minister for Local Government has advised:

The Government's commitment to reintroduce nude bathing at Reef Beach will require an amendment to the Local Government Act 1993.

The Government is currently reviewing the nude bathing status of a number of beaches including beaches within Sydney harbour.

The Government will take all necessary steps to advise the public when a determination is made on the matter.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 7 December 1995 the Hon. R. S. L. Jones asked me, representing the Minister for the Environment, a question without notice about Reef Beach. The Minister has advised:

The Government's commitment to reintroduce nude bathing at Reef Beach will require an amendment to legislation.

The Minister for the Environment recently made a submission to Cabinet on this matter and Cabinet is currently reviewing the nude bathing status of a number of beaches including beaches within the Sydney harbour.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 7 December the Hon. Elaine Nile asked me, representing the Minister for Police, a question without notice about police resignations. The Minister has advised:

The Executive Director, Human Resources has provided the following response.

The Annual Report of the New South Wales Police Service records that in 1994/95 a total of 299 police between and including the ranks of Senior and Probationary Constable resigned. Inquiries made of Queensland Police Service indicate that during that same period 22 former New South Wales police were inducted into Queensland Police training classes and 11 serving New South Wales police resigned to join the Queensland Police Service.

The annual report also demonstrates however, that total separations (excluding death) were 379 in 93/94 and 365 in 94/95. That means, in total, fewer police voluntarily left the Police Service in 94/95. In relation to resignations, past experience indicates that resignations at junior levels increase when there is a general improvement in alternative job opportunities, as has occurred in the last 12-18 months.

In the 1994 calendar year, a total of 3,395 police officers applied under the Merit Based Promotion System for 240 Sergeants' positions. During the 1995 calendar year up until November, a total of 2,532 officers applied for 332 such positions. Promotion prospects, as these figures indicate, have improved in the last 2 years.

Nevertheless the Government and the Police Service constantly monitor resignation rates within the Service and continually embark on new initiatives to encourage police officers to stay and seek advancement in the police profession. Recently, permanent part-time work has been introduced for police officers and improvements have been made in the availability of child care facilities for their families. New ways of structuring and facilitating career streams for police and of appropriately remunerating them are also being examined by the Service.

I trust this allays the Member's concerns.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 13 November 1995 the Hon. I. Cohen asked a question without notice about traffic noise. The Minister for Roads has advised:

If the Honourable Member wishes to submit the unspecified `new criteria' to the Government it will be given consideration.

The RTA's noise barriers are designed in accordance with road traffic guidelines. In this regard, the RTA employs the most common method of defining night time noise that is used around the world. It should be noted that NSW is the only State in Australia with a night time noise level objective that is more stringent than the objectives used in a number of countries including the United Kingdom, France and the United States of America.

The RTA rejects the assertion made in the question that there was any "deliberate rigging" of any traffic noise criteria.

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Ultimately, however, the Premier is the Minister responsible for the administration of the Public Sector Management Act 1988 and it would be for the Premier to decide if a special inquiry should take place under Section 82(2) of the Act.

The RTA is currently reviewing its traffic noise policies to ensure that the policies remain appropriate and that they continue to facilitate efficient and effective noise attenuation works.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 14 December 1995 the Hon. R. S. L. Jones asked me, representing the Minister for the Environment, a question without notice about kangaroo harvesting. The Minister has advised:

There is no evidence to indicate that kangaroos contribute to the staple diet of foxes. The National Parks and Wildlife Service is identifying key conservation areas which have high populations of rabbits and foxes and is developing strategies to protect native species should increased predation from foxes occur. This has not always been the case following heavy myxomatosis kills in the past.

As part of this monitoring process the service will be looking at macropods including the vulnerable and threatened brush-tailed and yellow-footed rock wallabies.

At this time there is no perceived need to review the commercial quota. There are no provisions within the Kangaroo Management Programme for quota review at any time throughout the year.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 7 December 1995 the Hon. R. S. L. Jones asked a question without notice about Tweed Shire endangered fauna. The Minister for the Environment has advised:

1. On 5 October, 1995, the Director-General of National Parks and Wildlife granted a General Section 120 Licence to Ray Group Pty Ltd to take or kill endangered fauna for the proposed Searanch residential subdivision within the Tweed Shire.

2. Yes. However, the licence ensures 57% (approx. 170 ha) of the Searanch site is to be transferred to the Tweed Council as land zoned 7(l), environmental protection zone (habitat). All home range and feed trees of the koala are to be retained. A management plan is to be developed for the glossy black cockatoo and the Queensland blossom bat habitat within the Searanch site. A Searanch Community Koala Management Committee has been established.

3. Yes. All measures have been taken to ensure that the development is undertaken in an environmentally sensitive manner.

4. A detailed decision report has been prepared by the National Parks and Wildlife Service including a thorough assessment of the potential impacts on endangered fauna and measures to minimise the impact on these species.

5. Yes. On 24 November, 1994, the Ray Group Pty Ltd applied for a General Section 120 Licence for a proposed residential subdivision at South Golden Beach. Subsequently, an amended subdivision plan, for 99 residential lots dated 12 September 1995, was submitted to Byron Council. As a consequence of the passing of the Threatened Species Conservation Act 1995, a licence is no longer required from the service for developments authorised by the Environmental Planning and Assessment Act. However, the Director-General now has a concurrence role for developments likely to significantly affect the environment of Threatened Species where a development consent is required from Council under the Environmental Planning & Assessment Act.

6. Yes. As part of General (Section 120) Licensing, impacts endangered fauna are thoroughly assessed. As stated previously, a licence is no longer required and therefore, the National Parks and Wildlife Service will continue to work cooperatively with Council on this matter. Any impact on the environment of (7b) lands is for the Department of Urban Affairs and Planning to determine unless threatened species are affected.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 13 December 1995 the Hon. I. Cohen asked a question without notice about State environmental planning policy 46. The Minister for Land and Water Conservation has advised:

SEPP No. 46 was introduced by the Government on 10th August 1995 as the first of a four phased strategy to achieve improved vegetation management in NSW. The second phase, and running concurrently with the SEPP, involves a period of extensive community consultation to determine modifications to the SEPP or perhaps specific native vegetation legislation (third phase).

As part of the review process, the Government has been involved in extensive consultation with farmers, through the NSW Vegetation Forum. This process has already realised some significant amendments to the SEPP, including the removal of the four specified native grasslands areas from the SEPP's application, pending the development of Regional Native Grasslands plans. This approach is consistent with the Government's long term goal and final phase of its strategy; that is, to achieve improved native vegetation through the co-operative processes of Total Catchment Management.

The Minister for Land and Water Conservation does not consider this accelerated program (now due for completion by mid 1996) as pre-empting the review process. Rather, the consultation period will still extend for some ten months and it is consistent with the Government's stated position that it will consult with and listen to community views and perceptions, particularly those of the rural sector, to ensure that long term vegetation management strategies are the result of a joint Government and community effort.

The Honourable Member may be assured this Government remains committed to the protection and sustainable management of the State's natural resources.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 20 November 1995 the Hon. S. B. Mutch asked me, representing the Minister for Police, a question without notice. The Minister has supplied the following answer:

The Commander, South Region has advised him that as at 7 December 1995, the following situation existed in the St George District in relation to Sutherland Shire Beat Patrols:

Sutherland - authorised strength (14)
- actual strength (14)

Miranda - authorised strength (8)

- actual strength (8)

Cronulla - authorised strength (14)

- actual strength (11.6)
(includes 1 part time)

Engadine - authorised strength (7)
- actual strength (6)

Beat Police are tasked daily with their duties which includes the patrolling of shopping centres within local suburbs and liaising with proprietors of the businesses within those centres.

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The Minister for Police understands that on 27 October 1995, the Acting Patrol Commander acquainted Mrs Brackstone, the President of the Gymea Chamber of Commerce, with the beat police staffing levels and the policing of the Gymea shopping area. Mrs Brackstone expressed her satisfaction with the police response.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 15 December 1995 the Hon. Elaine Nile asked the Minister for Community Services, Minister for Aged Services, and Minister for Disability Services, representing the Minister for Education and Training, a question without notice about TAFE staff reductions. The Minister has advised:

Firstly, the Government is not cutting TAFE positions. The 359 permanent positions are made up of 269 from the TAFE/DTEC Corporate structures, 28 from TAFE Training Divisions, 45 abolished positions in DTEC local and regional offices as a result of the recent State Budget and 17 deleted SES positions. The cuts have predominantly an administration focus on head office, and, have arisen from a streamlining of functions which were duplicated across both TAFE and DTEC. Institutes have not received any reduction in staff as a result of this restructure. Indeed, they have gained staff with the development of some functions such as staff development. No delays are anticipated during the enrolment period.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 13 November 1995 the Hon. Dr. Marlene Goldsmith asked me, representing the Minister for Education and Training, a question without notice about TAFE staff reductions. The Minister has advised:

(1) The restructuring of the Department of Training and Education Co-ordination and the NSW TAFE Commission has identified a number of areas in which there is significant duplication between the two departments. Predominantly this has occurred in the area of policy formulation, planning, resource allocation and corporate services. The restructure has enabled these activities to be significantly streamlined and some 359 positions will be abolished. These will be converted into teaching positions in the TAFE system, thereby expanding the provision of courses to students.

It is the Government's intention that any staff displaced will be offered voluntary redundancy. There will be no forced redundancies. The restructuring will enable NSW to reduce a major area of wastage in the system.

(2) The Carr Government has given an election undertaking that the resources released from the restructuring process will be redirected to the creation of 5,000 additional student places in the NSW TAFE system. This will create a significant increase in the availability of vocational education and training to students and will also increase the level of employment of TAFE teachers.

(3) The Government has pursued the restructuring process through an extensive consultative process with the unions, staff and industry and community stakeholders and will continue to consult in the implementation phase of the restructuring. The Carr Government remains committed to reforming the NSW vocational education and training sector, which is something the Coalition government avoided undertaking, thus contributing to an on-going waste of resources in a sector where there is a growing demand for training and `second chance' education.

The Minister for Education and Training assures me that he has met repeatedly with representatives of the Teachers Federation over recent weeks on a variety of matters, including the TAFE restructure.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 14 November 1995 the Hon. Virginia Chadwick asked me, representing the Minister for Education and Training, a question without notice about teachers' salaries. The Minister has advised:

In relation to the first question, given the member is purporting to quote the Premier, the Minister assumes she knows the answer.

In relation to the second question the NSW Teachers Federation has claimed salary increases totalling 12% in 1996.

The Minister proposed to the Teachers Federation that a detailed examination of the claim should proceed through the commencement of negotiations between the Teachers Federation and the various employers of teaching staff.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 6 December 1995 the Hon. Helen Sham-Ho asked me, representing the Minister for Education and Training, a question without notice about school terms. The Minister has advised:

(1) The Government has a proposal to modify the current arrangements for the four term year. The proposal is based on principles which include: as far as possible terms of equal length; and, the term one holiday not automatically determined by the date on which Easter falls.

(2) The Easter period is an important time for local tourism. The proposal should not adversely affect the tourism industry given that Easter will fall on all but two occasions within the proposed term one holidays in the period to 2005. In addition, lengthening the term one vacation to two weeks should assist tourism.

(3) The New South Wales Teachers Federation and the Parents and Citizens Association of New South Wales have supported the principle of Easter not determining the term one holidays. The Minister for Education and Training is aware of their opposition to one of the principles in the proposal that there should be no reduction in the number of teaching days.

The Chief Executive of the Tourism Task Force has expressed some initial concern that tourism at Easter might be affected.

(4) The proposed calendars and survey forms have been distributed to a large number of groups including all government schools, parents and citizens associations, school councils and tourist industry groups. Responses are due in by the beginning of March 1996. These responses will inform the final decision as to the future structure of the four term year.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 23 November 1995 the Hon. I. Cohen asked me, representing the Minister for the Environment, a question without notice about Tomago sandmining. The Minister has advised:

The Government will introduce a bill to amend the Environmental Planning and Assessment Act 1979 (EP&A Act) to deem development consents issued prior to the

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commencement of the EP&A Act in September 1980 to be part IV consents within the meaning of the EP&A Act. Developments with such consents will then qualify for general (Section 120) licences under the National Parks and Wildlife Act, 1974.

There will be no investigation into other licences.

The Director-General of National Parks and Wildlife issued the licence. Action will be taken as indicated above.

The question relating to existing use rights in relation to the Environmental Planning and Assessment Act should be referred to the Minister for Urban Affairs and Planning, and Minister for Housing, the Honourable Craig Knowles MP.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 11 December 1995 the Hon. Jennifer Gardiner asked me a question without notice abut the restructure of the Department of School Education. The Minister for Education and Training has advised:

The Department of School Education recently considered applications from employees seeking placement in positions at their current level in the Department's new structure.

Extensive interviews were not necessary in these circumstances. Many interviews were conducted by telephone.

In a small number of cases, staff who attended a face-to-face interview may have been required to travel. Costs associated with these were kept to a minimum.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 16 November 1995 the Hon. Elisabeth Kirkby asked me, representing the Minister for Police, a question about bullet-resistant vests. The Minister has advised:

On 5 December, 1995, the State Contracts Control Board approved a tender from ADI Services for the supply of 2059 bullet resistant vests for the Police Service. Delivery of the vests will commence in February.

Tenders were called and assessed by an Evaluation Committee including a ballistics expert, a police officer who wears bullet resistant vests on a regular basis and an official from the Police Station.

The Commissioner of Police has advised the Evaluation Committee selected the recommended tenderer based on their judgment as to the best combination of safety characteristics. The ballistic characteristics specified exceed the internationally accepted United States National Institute of Justice standard. The vest also satisfies the additional requirement to resist a .22 magnum projectile.

The Minister for Police is advised that the ballistic standard, that is the capability of the vest to withstand the impact of a projectile, is not only characteristic of a vest that bears on its safety.

The extent to which it covers the body, its weight, and the ease with which it can be put are amongst the practical attributes to be balanced when reaching a decision.

There is no single measure of safety, but bearing in mind all of these factors, the Evaluation Committee selected the recommended tenderer based on their opinion as to the best combination of safety characteristics.

The Minister for Police is aware that it has been alleged that the ceramic plate within the recommended vest can crack if dropped. The Minister for Police asked the Commissioner to investigate these claims. He confirmed that safety of the officers was the primary concern when the vest was selected by the Evaluation Committee and that the allegation concerning the ceramic plate is a characteristic of these devices in general.

All vests require careful handling, storage and maintenance. Police officers are aware, and are constantly reminded, that this is the case. Written instructions on care and handling are issued with each vest.

On changing shifts, written records covering the condition of all equipment and vehicles are made. With the forthcoming issue of vests, specialist officers will provide training in their care and use.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 14 November 1995 the Hon. R. S. L. Jones asked me, representing the Minister for Education and Training, a question without notice about the Department of Training and Education Co-ordination Vocational Guidance Service. The Minister has advised:

The Vocational Guidance Service provided a counselling and information service to unemployed people wishing to access further education and those wishing to improve their employment status.

Over the seventy years since the Inception of Vocational Guidance the role and direction of the Service has undergone change. Years ago the majority of the resources were channelled into school counselling and more recently the Service moved into providing career and employment related counselling and assessment services for unemployed people.

Career advisory services and counselling services are operating, nowadays, through a number of public and private organisations throughout NSW. School careers advisers, TAFE counsellors, university prospective student advisers, university student counsellors, Commonwealth Employment Service (CES) occupational psychologists, TAFE information officers and private providers all focus on career advice or vocational counselling.

Career Information can be accessed from the CES Careers Reference Centre and the Job and Course Explorer program (JAC). The CES Careers Reference Centre is a self help centre which is in effect a specialist education in training and occupation library. The JAC system is a program which is designed to be used by an individual as an interactive self help system. Information on more than 500 occupations and 300 courses of study can be accessed through JAC.

With these services currently available and the huge increase in Commonwealth funding for employment programs under the "Working Nation" package and similar increases for training programs the withdrawal of Vocational Guidance Services will not have significant impact on the level of unemployment.

More funding will allow New South Wales to open new doors to both the unemployed and those wishing to expand on their existing skills.

Information on employment opportunities and unemployment assistance programs is available from the Commonwealth Employment Service.

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The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 13 November 1995 the Hon. J. F. Ryan asked me, representing the Minister for Education and Training, a question without notice about vocational guidance service funding. The Minister has advised:

The Vocational Guidance Service provided a counselling and information service to the unemployed people wishing to access further education and those wishing to improve their employment status.

Over the seventy years since the inception of Vocational Guidance the role and direction of the Service has undergone change. Years ago the majority of the resources were channelled into school counselling and more recently the Service moved into providing career and employment related counselling and assessment services for unemployed people.

Career advisory services and counselling services are operating, nowadays, through a number of public and private organisations throughout NSW. School careers advisers, TAFE counsellors, university prospective student advisers, university student counsellors, Commonwealth Employment Service (CES) occupational psychologists, TAFE information officers and private providers all focus on career advice or vocational counselling.

Career Information can be accessed from the CES Careers Reference Centre and the Job and Course Explorer program (JAC). The CES Careers Reference Centre is a self help centre which is in effect a specialist education training and occupation library. The JAC system is a program which is designed to be used by an individual as an interactive self help system. Information on more than 500 occupations and 300 courses of study can be accessed through JAC.

With these services currently available and the huge increase in Commonwealth funding for employment programs under the "Working Nation" package and similar increases for training programs the withdrawal of Vocational Guidance Services will not have any significant impact on the level of unemployment.

More funding will allow New South Wales to open new doors to both the unemployed and those wishing to expand on their existing skills.

Information on employment opportunities and unemployment assistance programs is available from the Commonwealth Employment Service.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 12 December 1995 the Hon. R. S. L. Jones asked me, representing the Minister for Minister for Land and Water Conservation, a question without notice about the former Director-General of the Department of Water Conservation and Land Management. The Minister has advised me:

The Department of Land and Water Conservation was formed by the merger of the former Department of Conservation and Land Management and the former Department of Water Resources along with the Water Services Policy Division of the former Public Works Department.

Mr Warwick Watkins was the Chief Executive Officer of the former Department of Conservation and Land Management and with the establishment of the new Department, there were naturally not as many Chief Executive and Senior Executive Service positions.

Mr Watkins was placed on the unattached list and is presently working in the Premier's Department.

The Hon. J. W. SHAW: On 14 December 1995 the Hon. I. Cohen asked me, representing the Minister for Land and Water Conservation, a question without notice about the Wombarra drainage tunnel proposal. The Minister has advised:

As the Minister for Land and Water Conservation, he does not have the powers to require a catchment management study be carried out as a prerequisite to approval for work on the Wombarra drainage tunnel project.

Questions without notice concluded.


The Hon. R. T. M. BULL: I wish to make a personal explanation.

Leave granted.

The Hon. R. T. M. BULL: During question time the Hon. I. M. Macdonald asked the Leader of the Government a question regarding an alleged misrepresentation of industry position on the pricing of milk. I wish to read onto the record a memorandum I received from the Association of Liquidpaperboard Carton Manufacturers Incorporated signed by Mr Gerard van Rijswijk, dated 27 March 1996, which states:

SUBJECT: MILK PRICE RISES RESULTING FROM GOVERNMENT WASTE POLICY

* Consumers will pay for the Government's new waste policy through higher milk prices.

* Submissions to the NSW EPA on the Industry Waste Reduction Plan close on Friday, March 29.

* The Government expects the plan to include a commitment by industry to subsidise recycling - it is government policy that recycling collection costs be transferred to the consumer through the price of the product rather than solely through Council rates.

* The Minister for Agriculture is considering the inclusion of a levy on milk O.3 cents per litre to cover these cots. This cost will be inflated by margins and taxes - and means that the consumer will pay extra for their milk because of recycling - a cunning way of hiding the true cost of recycling. The alternative would be for councils to put recycling costs onto rate notices. Couldn't this extra money go to farmers?

* The Government's legislation also calls for the return of glass bottles although this cannot be supported on environmental or waste saving grounds.

* This would require an investment of between $3-4 million by the dairy industry, in new packaging and washing equipment for a pack that is not considered viable. Government wants to add to these costs by forcing the industry to run an advertising campaign promoting glass.

* Glass sales represented 1.5% of the milk market when glass was deleted last December. Consumers do not see it as a convenient form of milk packaging.

* Industry estimates that milk in glass will cost an extra 5-10 cents per litre without any additional environmental benefit.

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* The dairy industry is concerned that demand for bottles will drop away after their introduction, as happened in Perth when they were forced back on to the market, and they will be left with useless equipment.

* Funds collected by the dairy industry will go to prop up those collectors who have not moved to more cost-efficient collecting systems - a case of public money being used to subsidise private collectors.

* Consumers should object to milk being taxed in this way to prop up the government's inefficient approach to waste management.

* Recycling collection costs should not be hidden in milk prices or other product prices, but openly identified on council rate notices so that consumer knows exactly what those costs are and they can be kept under control.

I thank the House for its indulgence in allowing me to put that on the record. Members on the other side will know that I do not make things up or misrepresent industry concerns. This is fact; this is a quote directly from Mr Gerard van Rijswijk. I am happy to deliver copies of this document to members' offices.

[The Deputy-President (The Hon. D. J. Gay) left the chair at 1.07 p.m. The House resumed at 2.30 p.m.]


The Hon. J. P. HANNAFORD (Leader of the Opposition) [2.30]: Why is the Government avoiding any examination of this issue? We do not need to examine the material considered by the commission of inquiry; we must look forward. What were the findings of the inquiry? I should like to draw the attention of the House to some aspects of those findings. The report was prepared by William Simpson and Kevin Cleland, the Chairman and Deputy Chairman respectively of the Office of the Commissioners of Inquiry for Environment and Planning. I am sure the House would acknowledge that there are no two people who are more eminent or held in greater respect in the community for their ability to handle these types of inquiries with skill and independence. They have extensive experience in environmental assessment and planning. I worked with both men and assure the House that one would be hard pressed to find more experienced people in this field. In the executive summary to their report they said:

On weighing and balancing the scientific and technical evidence before the Inquiry we are satisfied that the impact of the Lake Cowal Gold Project on the environment of Lake Cowal will be low and will not be ecologically significant in the short or long term.

The report goes on to make this following interesting comment:

The contrary views of some parties are not supported by the evidence.

That comment must be emphasised when considering the subsequent direction that was taken when dealing with this report. The summary continued:

Nevertheless, the Company and government agencies consider that the remaining risk and uncertainty requires extensive monitoring procedures to ensure the mine and associated facilities maintain a low environmental impact and if variations occur they are quickly detected and remedied.

In the summary the commissioners make the following important comments - around which, it is now clear from papers subsequently made available, this issue revolves:

The main issue which remains in dispute, other than whether the mine should be approved or not, is the allowable cyanide concentration in the tailings discharged after processing the ore. The Department of Urban Affairs and Planning, Environment Protection Authority, National Parks and Wildlife Service and parties opposed to the mine forcefully argue for a lower criteria than is proposed by the Company and the Department of Mineral Resources.

This issue raises significant matters in relation to conservation and the level of protection required for native wildlife, particularly birds and including threatened species. We have considered the evidence at length having regard to ecologically sustainable development which requires the effective integration of economic and environmental considerations in decision-making, and the national and international conservation significance of Lake Cowal which highlights its sensitivity. We have concluded that a maximum cyanide level of 50 mg/L CN(WAD) as proposed by the Company should apply to the tailings discharge. We also recognise the need for the conservation of biodiversity and ecological integrity to be assured at Lake Cowal. Consequently, we recommend that as well as the extensive monitoring proposed by the conditions of consent the Company fully fund a waterbird conservation program to be undertaken jointly with the National Parks and Wildlife Service.

The summary concludes as follows:

We are satisfied the Lake Cowal Gold Project will bring positive economic and social benefits to Bland Shire and the State and that it will not compromise the recognised national and international conservation values of Lake Cowal in the short or long term, subject to the conditions of consent we recommend to control and mitigate potential environment impacts.

The issue at hand is to examine the process and to have available the necessary documents to do so. Those documents can only be made available in full to the House if they are produced according to a resolution of the House. I move:

That this debate be now adjourned to a later hour of the sitting.

Question put.

The House divided.

Mr Bull Rev. Nile
Mrs Chadwick Dr Pezzutti
Mrs Forsythe Mr Ryan
Miss Gardiner Mr Samios
Mr Gay Mrs Sham-Ho
Dr Goldsmith Mr Rowland Smith
Mr Hannaford Mr Tingle
Mr Kersten
Miss Kirkby Tellers,
Mr Moppett Mr Cohen
Mrs Nile Mr Lynn

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Dr Burgmann Mr Obeid
Mr Dyer Ms Saffin
Mr Egan Mr Shaw
Mrs Isaksen Ms Staunton
Mr Johnson Mrs Symonds
Mr Kaldis Tellers,
Mr Macdonald Ms Burnswoods
Mr Manson Mr Vaughan

Mr Jobling Mrs Arena

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Motion agreed to.

Debate adjourned.


The Hon. J. P. HANNAFORD (Leader of the Opposition) [2.46]: I move:

That there be laid on the Table of the House by 23 April 1996 all papers relating to the Government's consideration of the Report of the Commission of Inquiry into the Lake Cowal gold mine and associated facilities at Cowal West, West Wyalong, proposed by North Gold (WA) Limited, and the determination of the consent to the project.

Earlier today the House considered a motion relating to the establishment of a select committee to investigate this matter. In part I have addressed the background of the Lake Cowal project, so I will not burden the House by restating it. However, the next step is the need to examine the documentation that the Government considered before coming to its decision on the issue.

The Hon. M. R. Egan: That is it there.

The Hon. J. P. HANNAFORD: The Treasurer waves a document titled "Director-General of Planning's Report to the Minister Recommending Refusal to the Application for an Open Cut Gold Mine at Lake Cowal". He waves that at the House and says, "That is it there." I will deal with the extent of the Government's consideration of this matter. The initial cost to get the project up and running was estimated to be $177 million. Some $14 million has been expended on the preparation of the project to date, as I understand it. The economic benefit of this project was so great to the State that the Minister for State and Regional Development announced he would use his ministerial powers to seek to have the coordination of all agencies to move the project forward. The value of gold to be derived from the project is estimated at $1.2 billion.

As I understand it, the value is put at $1.2 billion in accordance with a protocol between the mining industry and the stock exchange as to the basis upon which values of projects are estimated and therefore announced in the marketplace. The protocol requires the minimal provable value to be stated so as not to mislead the marketplace. Those Government members who have dealings in these areas would be familiar with that sort of protocol and the reasons for it. Sources within the Department of Mineral Resources estimate that the value of this project is closer to $2 billion. That statement has not been accepted by North Gold (WA) Limited, the proponent company, because it is inconsistent with the protocol.

We are dealing with a project worth $1.2 billion. We must take into account its ecological impact. We must ensure that regard is had to ecological principles. If there is a threat of long-term damage to the environment, we should not entertain such a project. When the report of the commission of inquiry is examined in detail all those issues will be considered. Experts from the departments and from around the world have appeared before two commissioners, who have listened to the evidence and cross-examined the experts on their views. It has been a thorough process. The commissioners issued the following statement after having heard all the evidence:

On weighing and balancing the scientific and technical evidence before the Inquiry we are satisfied that the impact of the Lake Cowal Gold Project on the environment of Lake Cowal will be low and will not be ecologically significant in the short or long term.

The commissioners then made this most significant observation:

The contrary views of some parties are not supported by the evidence.

There can be no equivocation about that statement. No-one challenges the capability or integrity of those experienced commissioners. We must assume that the Government, subsequent to receiving the commissioners' report, received other technical information. Further analyses must have been undertaken by various agencies and provided to the Minister - information which revealed that the report was not one to which credence could be given. Earlier the Minister said that the report by the Director-General of Planning was the only report. A close analysis of that report reveals that it is no more than an internal review by the Department of Urban Affairs and Planning of the report by the commission of inquiry. There is nothing in that document to indicate that there has been consultation with any other interested parties. Was there further consultation with the Environment Protection Authority? Were the views of the National Parks and Wildlife Service obtained? Was the Department of Mineral Resources given the opportunity to comment on this report?

Did the department elicit any views which warranted further consultation with the proponent? Nothing in this report suggests that that occurred. As I understand the Minister's statement he said that nothing further occurred. Clearly the decision that
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was taken was an arbitrary one. Let us ascertain whether that was so. Why is the Government afraid to table these documents? This House and the community will judge the Government on that decision. I do not believe that there was no further consultation. Meetings were held between the Premier, the Minister and other relevant officers. I am sure that departmental officers kept diary notes of those meetings. Were there other meetings? If diary notes were kept, they should be made available to the House. The House is entitled to know whether or not proper procedures were followed.

As I said earlier in debate on another matter - and I will not refer to that speech in great detail - the mining community is concerned about this Government's approach to major sensitive projects. This project was lauded by the Minister for State and Regional Development. The Government initiated coordination of all government agencies, but there is no statement from the Minister to suggest that there was ultimately any such coordination of government agencies. The Government encourages companies to "come to New South Wales and embark upon an independent assessment process". The independent assessment process in New South Wales is highly regarded internationally. But yesterday that process was placed under a massive black cloud. Major investors are wondering whether or not to proceed with their proposals.

North Gold, the proponent in this proposal, sought an interview with the Premier to discuss the future of its Cadia Mine - a mine that has been embraced by this Government. The Premier refused to meet with the managing director of that company. The Premier has indicated that he does not wish to speak to the managing director of that company about mining proposals. The Premier peremptorily announced on television that he was vetoing a major development, but he is not prepared to speak to the managers of one of the biggest goldmining companies in Australia. One would have expected the Department of Urban Affairs and Planning to gather the views of all relevant agencies after receiving this report. Is the Department of Mineral Resources happy with the report or does it want to vary some of the matters referred to in that report? Does the Environment Protection Authority want to express a view about matters in that report? Does the National Parks and Wildlife Service have a view on any of the references? The report states:

Consequently, we recommend that as well as the extensive monitoring proposed by the conditions of consent the Company fully fund a waterbird conservation program to be undertaken jointly with the National Parks and Wildlife Service.

Would the National Parks and Wildlife Service like to participate in such a program? I assume that the Government would have consulted that body. The community is entitled to know whether such consultation has taken place. Debate has focused on the quantities of cyanide in the Lake Cowal area. The internationally accepted standard is 50 milligrams per litre. The Department of Urban Affairs and Planning, the Environment Protection Authority and the National Parks and Wildlife Service advocated a lower percentage, that of 30 milligrams per litre. I should have thought that the Government, having received and looked at the report, would have had further consultation with the Department of Mineral Resources to ascertain whether it supported a maximum level of 50 milligrams or the lower maximum of 30 milligrams per litre advocated by the other agencies. If there was to be continuing support for the 30 milligrams maximum, and that was to be the figure put to the Minister, I should have thought that the proponent would have been consulted to ascertain whether it would accept such a cyanide level. It is quite possible that the company would have accepted such a quantity. The commission of inquiry reported:

There was extensive detailed and complex scientific and operational information on this issue put before the Inquiry by [the agencies referred to]. The major submissions in regard to relevant cyanide levels were however put by the EPA and the Company. The information base used by the EPA and the Company was similar, both using scientific research and field data from American and Australian sources. It is the interpretation of the data and the approaches to achieving the aim of zero bird deaths due to cyanide toxicity in which they differ.

That is the only issue - there was no variation with regard to the technical information. The only differences are the approaches to be taken in achieving the aim. The report, on pages 44 to 47, is most revealing so far as the levels of cyanide are concerned. The commissioners looked at all of the issues in great detail and then made the following comment:

Referring to the precautionary principle, the evidence is that neither the EPA's nor the Company's approach to the required cyanide level in the tailings discharge is likely to give rise to a "threat of serious or irreversible environmental damage" given the operational and management controls to be designed into the system and the final hazard and risk studies to be undertaken.

The precautionary principle advocated by the Department of Urban Affairs and Planning and other agencies is addressed by this inquiry, and in relation to that principle a clear finding is made. In the report now circulated by the Leader of the Government is the precautionary principle adopted? No, not necessarily. The report concludes:

. . . these risks cannot be totally eliminated unless mining does not take place.

No longer is the principle the precautionary principle, it is the total elimination principle - a new approach adopted by the Department of Urban Affairs and Planning. I wonder whether there were meetings in relation to this matter which gave rise to the development of the totally new elimination principle which is now to be adopted for projects of this nature in New South Wales. The mining industry will go into a tail spin similar to that which
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the Government is in at the moment when it reads the report circulated - but not tabled - today by the Minister. The industry will ask, "Is a total elimination principle to be adopted in relation to Cadia or any of the other mines?"

The Hon. M. R. Egan: Mr President, we have been listening to the Leader of the Opposition for a long time -

The PRESIDENT: Order! Does the Leader of the Government wish to take a point of order?

The Hon. M. R. Egan: Yes. The Leader of the Opposition is not talking to his motion, which relates to the tabling of documents. He is dealing with the substantive issue of the proposed Lake Cowal mine.

The PRESIDENT: Order! I agree with the Leader of the Government. The Leader of the Opposition is digressing significantly from the specifics of the motion. Therefore, I uphold the point of order. The Leader of the Opposition will direct his comments to the specifics of the motion.

The Hon. J. P. HANNAFORD: It is important that the documents be tabled. The circulated document shows that a new principle is being adopted in relation to dealing with major projects. The community needs to know whether the appropriate processes were followed. Public confidence in the planning processes in New South Wales must be restored. There is major public concern that the processes were not followed on this occasion. That confidence will be restored only when these documents are tabled. It is to be hoped that an examination of these processes will assure the investing public that it need not be concerned with investing in New South Wales because all the principles were followed and no external issues were taken into account. If the Government hides these documents, it will only reinforce the public's concern that there is something to hide about this process and there was something wrong in the way it was handled and, consequently, the public should be concerned about further investing in such projects in this State. I commend the motion to the House.

The Hon. M. R. EGAN (Treasurer, Minister for Energy, Minister for State and Regional Development, Minister Assisting the Premier, and Vice-President of the Executive Council) [3.07]: I move:

That the question be amended by omitting all words after "1996" and inserting instead "by the Leader of the Opposition, all papers relating to the Opposition's consideration of all matters considered by the 51st Parliament."

The Leader of the Opposition seems perplexed, so I will explain what the amendment means.

The PRESIDENT: Order! I suggest the Leader of the Government address the Chair and not the Hon. B. H.Vaughan.

The Hon. M. R. EGAN: The amendment that I have moved seeks to amend the motion moved by the Leader of the Opposition in the following way:

That there be laid on the table in the House by 23 April 1996 by the Leader of the Opposition, all papers relating to the Opposition's consideration of all matters considered by the 51st Parliament . . .

The document that I published today entitled "Director-General of Planning's Report to the Minister Recommending Refusal to the Application for an Open Cut Goldmine at Lake Cowal" is the document upon which the Government's decision not to proceed with the Lake Cowal project was taken. There is the report of the commission of inquiry and there is the report of the Director-General of Planning to the appropriate Minister. This report contains the recommendation to the Minister for Planning, who has to make the decision, and that was the advice upon which he acted. If there is a power in this House to order the tabling of documents, then it is a power that should apply to everyone.

The Government will then examine all the private diaries of the Leader of the Opposition, his notes to his colleagues, his letters to constituents, his letters to Liberal Party fund-raisers and their letters to him. The Opposition will be ordered to lay all its papers on the table of the House. This absurd power exists only in the imaginations of the Leader of the Opposition and certain other members of this House. Crown law officers advise that this House has no power, by motion or by resolution, to order the tabling of any documents. That advice was given by Crown law officers and others to the Standing Committee on Parliamentary Privilege and Ethics, to which a matter similar to this was referred late last year.

The Government will soon receive the report of that committee. I am sure it will not uphold the drivel often spoken by the Hon. Elisabeth Kirkby in this House. However, I am sure it will uphold a commonsense position. If the Opposition believes it can force one, two or three members of this House to table documents relating to telephone conversations, private discussions, and advice given to them by public servants, if they are prepared to throw overboard all public policy considerations of good administration and good government, then that principle must be taken to its logical conclusion. And that is, every conversation its members have ever had on the telephone for which a diary note exists, every letter they have ever written, every piece of paper that has ever come into their possession, will become the property of this House.

As I told the Leader of the Opposition when he tried to obtain information on the Fox proposal and about veterinary laboratories, there is an important public policy principle that must be upheld. This Government is going to uphold the Constitution of New South Wales and uphold the public interest. We will see how the Leader of the
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Opposition squeals when his dirty dealings with his fund-raisers are brought out into the open. The Government has nothing to hide. The honourable member can apply under the Freedom of Information Act for whatever information he wants, and provided it is within the law he can get it. If he does not get what he is after, he can take his case to the courts. That is provided for in legislation introduced by the coalition when it was in government. Under the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act the Opposition can get documents belonging to us, but, unfortunately, we cannot get documents belonging to the Opposition.

The Hon. J. P. Hannaford: They are not your documents; they are public documents. They are the documents of the Government of New South Wales and, therefore, the documents of the people of New South Wales.

The Hon. M. R. EGAN: The Leader of the Opposition was talking about notes taken by Ministers of their telephone conversations. If the Opposition can obtain notes taken by Ministers of telephone conversations, I want to know what the Leader of the Opposition says to Peter Collins over the telephone. I want to know what he says to the Hon. D. F. Moppett on the telephone. I want to know what his constituents say to him on the phone and what he says to them, because I do not trust him or his ethics as far as I can throw him. I would love to see all his dirty dealings. The Government is proud to release the document upon which the Government's decision has been made. I published it today for anyone who wanted it, and anyone who reads it will know that the Government made the right decision.

The Hon. ELISABETH KIRKBY [3.14]: I am now the only member of the Australian Democrats sitting in this Chamber. I have discussed this matter with advisers to my Federal colleagues and with members of our Federal Executive. The Australian Democrats believe in accountability. They are under great criticism at the moment because although they have been fighting for accountability, it has now been suggested by certain sections of the media that they oppose everything the newly elected Liberal-National Government is doing. That is not true, because Federal Parliament has not sat and no-one is in a position to know what my Federal colleagues intend to do when Federal Parliament resumes. A motion has been moved by the Leader of the Opposition requesting the tabling of documents by the Government relating to Lake Cowal. That has been met by an amendment moved by the Leader of the Government, who by so moving is trifling with this House. He knows that very well. It is a significant political ploy.

The Hon. M. R. Egan: It is exactly the same principle.

The Hon. ELISABETH KIRKBY: It is not the same principle, because you are the Leader in this House of the duly elected government of the day.

The Hon. M. R. Egan: And you are a duly elected member of this Parliament. Why shouldn't people know of all the correspondence you receive and discussions you have that leads to your making decisions?

The PRESIDENT: Order! It is not for the Minister to indulge in interrogatories with the member who has the call.

The Hon. ELISABETH KIRKBY: The duly elected government of the day must be accountable to the people, and it must be accountable to the people through the Parliament. The Leader of the Opposition has requested that papers relating to Lake Cowal be tabled. The Leader of the Government is well aware that I proposed an amendment to the motion, and that amendment was brought to his attention by my office earlier this morning. The amendment, which I now move, is in the following terms:

That the Question be amended by the addition of the following paragraphs:

(2) It is a sufficient compliance with this Order for the Minister to table the documents required by delivering them to the Clerk of the House.

(3) The Clerk is authorised to permit any Member of the Legislative Council, but no other person, to inspect all or any of the documents.

(4) No person, including a Member, may publish or copy any document or part of a document without an Order of the House.

Concerns have been raised with me by various environmental groups that if those papers were made publicly available, information would be given to the relevant mining company, which is in the process of contesting the Government's decision in the Supreme Court. After having already spent $15 million investigating the proposals for a goldmine at Lake Cowal, the company is hardly likely to give up the fight without further legal consideration through the Supreme Court. If it fails in the Supreme Court, I am sure it is wealthy enough to take the matter to the High Court. I suspect that that is where this matter will end up. I am not anxious, and certainly have no desire, to give a mining company a free kick. That is why I moved the amendment. If the documents are tabled with the Clerk and if the Clerk is permitted to allow only members of this House - not members of the Assembly or any other person - to sight them, and if those members may not publish or copy part of the document without an order of the House, confidentiality will be preserved. That means that those documents will be available only to honourable members of this House.

If honourable members were to breach the provisions of such a serious motion, they would abuse the privileges of the House and they could be dealt with by the Standing Committee on Parliamentary Privilege and Ethics. It would not be possible for them to publish or copy the documents, or for any information to fall into the hands of the mining company, without serious repercussions. I
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intend to move an amendment, which hopefully will be supported, because I understand the concerns expressed by environmental groups about this matter. For the Leader of the House to suggest that calling on the Opposition to produce all documents that existed during the life of the Fifty-first Parliament, including those relating to all conversations between staff of the previous Government and interested groups is the same thing is a nonsense, because the process of accountability is in the hands of the Government. Unless the government of the day follows due process, and unless it is accountable, this Chamber and this Parliament might as well be abolished and the State ruled by edict from the Executive. Regrettably, that has been happening.

The present administration was elected in March 1995. This House sat for only 33 days in 1995 and then adjourned properly for the Christmas break. It was meant to resume on 15 February to debate problems with workers compensation and a massive package of industrial relations reforms and other necessary measures. However, the House was not able to resume on 15 February because the Premier had decided to prorogue the Parliament, which he did. Not only did he abort the debate on industrial relations and other important legislation; he aborted the work of all the committees and made it impossible for matters to be raised in the House by way of questions, matters of public importance and the adjournment debate. In other words, he took into his hands control of the State and the elected representatives of the people of New South Wales had no opportunity to carry out their duties. That was the result of prorogation.

After a four-month recess - a totally ridiculous recess for which we were paid by the people of the State - honourable members still cannot carry out their valuable committee duties. What are they being paid to do? The answer depends on the party to which they belong. They were probably paid only to campaign for their Federal colleagues for the Federal election on 2 March. The Parliament has resumed. The Government amendment, that a proper request for the government of the day to table papers should be denied, is trifling with the House and insults the powers of the House.

By requesting the Government to table all the documents, I have tried to ensure that no advantage will be given to the mining company which is so desperately distressed about the Government's decision. If the Government relied on only one document - if it is the one that I received today and the one to which the Leader of the Opposition referred - the people of New South Wales are entitled to ask why. The document contains some significant dates. It was signed by the Director-General of the Department of Urban Affairs and Planning on 2 April and countersigned on 3 April with an indecipherable signature. The Premier announced his decision on 6 April on the Sunday program. Are we to believe that the only document relied on by the Premier was the one signed off by the Director-General of the Department of Urban Affairs and Planning on 2 April?

We are entitled to know what other documents the Premier based his decision on because he made his decision public on a television program less than four days after the director-general signed the document. As I made clear today in a letter to environmental groups, the mining company is not entitled to examine the other documents on which the Premier relied. I propose that the documents on which the Premier based his decision be tabled in the House, that only honourable members of this House - not staff members or members of the Legislative Assembly - be entitled to view them, and that no one, not even honourable members of this House, be allowed to publish or copy them. That would respect the confidentiality of the documents. I consulted my Federal colleagues on this matter because it is common practice in the Senate for confidential documents to be tabled with the Clerk of the Senate. Such documents are not available to anyone except the senators.

The Hon. M. R. Egan: But the senators can reveal them.

The Hon. ELISABETH KIRKBY: No, such documents cannot be revealed by the senators except by order of the Senate. I have included in my amendment the words "without an order of the House" because I am attempting, by all means at my disposal, to get the documents tabled confidentially. I ask honourable members to consider my amendment because it will meet the Opposition's concerns, as well as those of the environmental movement. It will also meet the concerns of the Government that documents it does not wish to make available for public scrutiny are not made available to the public.

The Hon. M. R. Egan: But in that sense you are a member of the community; you are not a member of the Executive.

The Hon. ELISABETH KIRKBY: I am a member of this House, elected in my own right to represent the people of New South Wales on behalf of my party, and I am prepared to abide by the standing orders of this House and the rules and regulations laid down by the Standing Committee on Parliamentary Privilege and Ethics. I will not abuse my position in this House. I will respect the confidentiality of any documents tabled with the Clerk of this House.

The Hon. M. R. Egan: I simply ask whether the Hon. Elisabeth Kirkby is seeking to amend the motion or my amendment, because I would certainly accept it as an amendment to my amendment.

The DEPUTY-PRESIDENT (The Hon. D. J. Gay): Order! In answer to the question raised by the Leader of the Government, I have taken advice that if the amendment of the Leader of the Opposition is agreed to, the amendment of the Hon. Elisabeth Kirkby is not relevant to his amendment. Her amendment would only stand on the original motion of the Leader of the Opposition.

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The Hon. D. F. MOPPETT [3.30]: In view of that ruling I may need some guidance in a moment. Having listened to the Hon. Elisabeth Kirkby, I move:

That the amendment of Ms Kirkby be amended by omitting paragraphs (3) and (4), and inserting instead:

(3) Where in the Minister's opinion, the reasons for which must be tabled at the time this Order is complied with, the publication of any document or part of a document to be tabled under this Order is privileged and should not be made public, the documents, clearly identified, are to be delivered to the Clerk in a sealed package.

(4) Where any document is tabled under paragraph (3):

(a) the Clerk is authorised to permit any Member of the Legislative Council, but no other person, to inspect all or any of those documents; and

(b) no person, including a Member, may publish or copy any of those documents or part of a document without an Order of the House.

I would like to explain why the Opposition is in sympathy with the proposed amendment of the Hon. Elisabeth Kirkby. All honourable members would agree that when the matter goes before court we would not feel comfortable if it were contended by any party or any member of the public that these procedures had given a free kick to the mining company. I want to make it clear to the Hon. Elisabeth Kirkby that the reason for this debate is that the mining companies have been dealt a devastating blow or kick, free or otherwise: it was not free to them, it has cost them a lot of money. The debate about the future of the Lake Cowal proposal needs to be seen in context to understand the significance attached to it by the Opposition.

No doubt the Government's decision has been regarded by the public and the mining community as pre-emptory and arbitrary. The reports in the media seem to suggest that the only rationalisation was that the Premier had decided to overturn the recommendations of a properly constituted inquiry because he wanted to punish the company for the death of some birds at the Northparkes mine. He called into question the company's environmental record. That is not a proper reason to make a decision of such fundamental significance to the mining industry in New South Wales, particularly the auriferous mining sector, which promises to be so very important to this State.

For the last decade the development of the industry in Western Australia was thought to have eclipsed the pristine position of New South Wales as the gold-producing State in the Commonwealth of Australia. All honourable members will be aware of the historical antecedents: the discovery of gold at Ophir changed the history of this nation. Gold was important to all sorts of places, including Broken Hill, which has a very worthy representative in the House: it was people searching for gold in the area who found the silver-lead deposits at Broken Hill. Gold exploration and mining have been fundamentally important to the economy of Australia and New South Wales.

Gold is a unique metal and its extraction is not a simple process. The original gold finds were placer deposits, in other words deposits of the metal gold. For the major part of this century gold has been extracted by the cyanide process. That process made possible the extraction of traces of gold through hard rock, but also allowed the reworking of old tailings in many parts of the State. Many stories have been told about cyaniding for gold in all parts of the Commonwealth. Anyone prospecting for gold in an area of this State where it is known to exist would be aware of reasonable standards when seeking to prove a deposit, assess its potential for economic development, develop surveys and assays, and prepare to comply with legal and statutory requirements for environmental protection. This afternoon the Leader of the Opposition talked about whether a cyanide concentration of 50 parts per million was acceptable, or whether it could be negotiated down to 30.

In America or other parts of the world cyanide concentrations might be as high as 5,000 parts per million. Ponding operations in New South Wales could be working at close to 1,000 parts per million of cyanide. That is really pushing technology to the point where the pursuit of any worthwhile deposit in New South Wales must become uneconomical. Mention has been made of a significant deposit that is still in the stages of being assessed - Cadia mine east of Orange - and also of a deposit in the north of the State that is further back in the preparation of an estimation of its value. Why would anyone spend large sums of money assessing the size and assay strength of an ore body and preparing to satisfy legislative requirements if at the end of the day, after due processes have been followed, the Government can arbitrarily say no because at another site, whether or not connected with the company involved, through a breakdown in the security of their processes - not the fundamental process at Lake Cowal - some birds have been poisoned?

It is interesting that other sites have much higher concentrations of cyanide than Northparkes. In fact, wildlife have settled on those ponds and are breeding successfully. To recoil from the mention of cyanide use is to say that we do not want any goldmining in New South Wales. That perception is untenable, but unfortunately it can be extended to any form of mining. Mining companies accept that these days the community believes that mining approval confers great privileges but also immense responsibilities upon any company seeking to develop a mineral ore body. Mining outcomes must be predictable otherwise that industry will move on like a migratory bird to other parts of the world and we will be left standing empty-handed.

I shall now explain why the Opposition is pursuing its amendment to the proposal of the Hon. Elisabeth Kirkby. The Opposition is not just seeking to determine whether due process has been followed in the making of a decision that is
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cataclysmic for the company and for the mining industry generally. Indeed, the Opposition wants to satisfy the public that due process has been followed. Perhaps there are sensitive documents, which could be privileged, that may have had the unwanted impact referred to by the Hon. Elisabeth Kirkby, that is, of prejudicing further court proceedings and placing at a disadvantage those who wished to oppose the legal process pursued by the mining company.

The basic tradition of equal legal access to all parties should not be compromised, but it seems silly that there should be all-embracing access to all documents. Therefore, the Opposition, by its amendment, has set out a process whereby documents that should properly be in the public domain are tabled normally and documents clearly designated as privileged - not all the documents, as proposed by the Hon. Elisabeth Kirkby - are dealt with as such. The proposed Opposition amendment to the amendment foreshadowed by the Hon. Elisabeth Kirkby should be considered if the latter is brought forward in the House this afternoon.

The Hon. I. COHEN [3.42]: I have found it interesting that members in their contributions have both canvassed the mining issue and attempted to work out exactly what the Parliament can do to give credit to a process that seals up the possibility of leakage of information to the public. I listened with great interest to the amendments proposed by the Leader of the Opposition and the Hon. Elisabeth Kirkby to create a procedure to table information for honourable members of this House without making provision for a paper trail to assist those who seek to take court action on the matter.

Regardless of remarks made so far, it is clear to me that the terms of reference and the push for a review of the Minister's decision provide a vehicle to enable the company to pursue court action for that review. It is a political witch-hunt to overcome a proper outcome based on the merits of the evidence. I am opposed to that type of process. It is obvious that I support the Government on this issue. I am very concerned that various honourable members have proposed amendments and believe in good faith that the process will be watertight when in actual fact the documents could be examined in the House and the information could be given anecdotally. Obviously the matter will be discussed - nothing official, of course - but in the end the mining company, in preparing for the impending court case, through freedom of information legislation could gain relevant documents to use in other forums. I certainly do not think that is the intention -

The Hon. D. F. Moppett: What is there to hide?

The Hon. I. COHEN: It is not a case of having anything to hide, as the Hon. D. F. Moppett suggests; it is a case of not allowing misinformation to be misused in the public domain, which is of immense concern to me. There has been much hullabaloo about the decision and about the way the Premier made it.

The Hon. M. R. Kersten: Hullabaloo?

The Hon. I. COHEN: Yes, hullabaloo. It was obviously a decision of the Minister for Urban Affairs and Planning through due process in the bureaucracy. Mr Carr's comments in the media were obviously made after the event. The commission of inquiry is an apparatus of the Minister, who set it up in the first place. So many people see it as some sort of judicial process outside the parameters and powers of the Minister. Many people disagree with the decision, not least those in the environment movement and scientific community. We submit that the Lake Cowal wetlands and associated wildlife are simply too valuable nationally and internationally to be put at risk. The Australian Heritage Commission's official statement of significance states:

Lake Cowal is one of the most significant waterbird concentration areas in NSW. It is an important site for migratory birds, and supports a high diversity of bird species with 172 species recorded in the area, including a breeding population of 82 species.

The Hon. D. F. Moppett: Do you realise that at one stage it was dry for 30 continuous years? They are talking about a creek, not the Macquarie or Lachlan rivers. It is on Bland Creek.

The Hon. I. COHEN: I understand the comments of the Hon. D. F. Moppett. However, I have visited Lake Cowal many times. I have seen it in its magnificence and local species in their magnificence. I cannot possibly agree with anyone who argues to the contrary, despite a claim that the area was dry for many years. I know that is not the case.

The Hon. D. F. Moppett: Like it is now.

The Hon. I. COHEN: No, it is not. I was there only a couple of days ago, as the Hon. D. F. Moppett would be well aware. I saw the lake: it was far from dry and had the most magnificent array of 200 or more pelicans. I have never seen anything like it in my life. As we approach the 2000 Olympics that area will be of international significance and will make money for local areas, if only members of the community pull their heads out of the sand and look to the future for the real value of that wetland area. The China Australia migratory bird agreement, CAMBA, and the Japanese Australia migratory bird agreement, JAMBA, have established the excellent value of that area. An extract from those agreements states that bird species which breed in the area and which are listed in schedule 12 of the New South Wales National Parks and Wildlife Act 1983 include magpie goose, which is listed as rare and vulnerable, and the freckled duck, which is listed as threatened.

The Hon. D. F. Moppett: We do not contest that; you can leave all of that out. We are not talking about damaging the lake.

The Hon. I. COHEN: That is good. It is beyond me how anyone could propose using the area around the lake for an industrial complex,
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which would have such an adverse impact, but refuse to acknowledge its massive impact. To ensure there is no impact, I suggest honourable members consider another issue altogether, the future tourist potential of Lake Cowal and its surrounds. The executive summary of the commission of inquiry states that the proposed mine will cost $183 million to develop, and will employ 180 staff and have a life of about 11 years, which is a very short span in considering a sustainable industry for the area. When the mine has ceased to operate, the wetland values will have been degraded, and residents of West Wyalong will say that the Government should have investigated the long-term consequences. This project will not create sustainable employment for future generations and it could possibly destroy an invaluable wetland area.

Sodium cyanide used in the gold extraction process is obviously highly poisonous to humans and animals by ingestion or absorption through the skin. On contact with acids or water, the toxic inflammable hydrogen cyanide gas is liberated. It has been well established that ingestion of cyanide in the water and the liberation of gas was partly responsible for the recent massive bird kill at Parkes. It might be of value to think about the bronchial problems and skin lesions that elderly people in the Parkes area have been suffering in recent times. A precautionary principle in dealing with these issues is necessary. I commend the people in the Department of Planning for having undertaken that precautionary principle in deciding not to go ahead with this exceptionally dangerous project in such a sensitive area. The potential effects of the project have not been sufficiently investigated so that it could be said that such an industrial development would not harm the area. An extract from Douglas Partners, consultants to the Department of Urban Affairs and Planning, stated:

Indeed, the instances of bird deaths on tailings dams are often the result of inhalation of hydrogen cyanide gas, rather than drinking sodium cyanide contaminated water.

The Hon. M. R. Kersten: Does the honourable member want all mining banned?

The Hon. I. COHEN: Mining should not take place in areas of high ecological significance. Why take the risk? To go headlong into a short-term industrial project that has the potential to ruin the long-term viability of an area without the appropriate environmental controls in place, as many governments have done in the past, is nothing short of vandalism. The recent Ramsar convention in Brisbane was told that 60 per cent of wetlands in developed country have been destroyed. We have an international obligation to maintain these areas. The pollution and/or salination of Lake Cowal would impact on fish populations, agricultural and water supplies. Quite a bit has been said about the mining process and the massive areas that could be developed to act as a sump to perhaps solve the salination problem to a certain extent. Unfortunately, if the project goes ahead, history will show that it will make the salination far worse. The impact of salination on that area would be far worse in terms of employment and such like than if the mine does not go ahead. The people who consider that the Government's decision was inappropriate should suggest other industries that would be sustainable for far longer than the 11 years projected by the mining industry.

The Hon. J. H. Jobling: On a point of order. The motion requires the laying of all relevant papers on the table. Mr President, as a previous point of order was taken in this regard, I ask you to direct the honourable member to return to the scope of the motion.

The Hon. M. R. Egan: On the point of order. Certainly I did take a point of order earlier, but I think the Hon. J. H. Jobling may have been absent from the Chamber when the Hon. D. F. Moppett canvassed the Lake Cowal project far and wide. The honourable member went into great detail about the merits of the project, of mining generally, and the effect of the project on the local environment. The Hon. I. Cohen is simply responding to the lengthy comments made by the Hon. D. F. Moppett.

The DEPUTY-PRESIDENT (The Hon. D. J. Gay): Order! I uphold the point of order. I feel that the Hon. D. F. Moppett was equally out of order but no point of order was taken. The honourable member should return to the motion.

The Hon. I. COHEN: I hope I have cleared up a number of issues. It is unfortunate that I have not been given the latitude to develop other arguments, including one on alternative industries for the area. As I said earlier, I am extremely suspicious of the direction being taken in this debate. It goes far beyond what is coming across on the surface.

[Interruption]

I remind the Hon. D. F. Moppett that the hoofed animals and current land practices being undertaken in many areas under the auspices of his party are preventing water running into the ground. If they kept to a regime that is to be presented by the Greens -

The DEPUTY-PRESIDENT: Order! I ask the honourable member to speak to the motion, and I ask the Hon. D. F. Moppett not to lead him astray.

The Hon. I. COHEN: A number of issues in relation to the response of the Department of Planning to the report of the commission of inquiry need to be investigated in greater depth. The commission of inquiry has devoted some 85 per cent of its time to pro-development reactions to its investigation. It is appropriate that the department has reacted in the way it has. It is also appropriate and understandable that there may be a way to resolve the situation other than through a select
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committee. However, I will support the proposed amendment of the Hon. Elisabeth Kirkby only on the condition that no paper trail is made available to the company that wishes to undertake legal action. If I can be assured of that I will support the amendment. I have been advised - and I cast no aspersions on the honourable member - that documents could find their way into the hands of people with a particular agenda and that this may have consequences on future court actions.

Reverend the Hon. F. J. NILE [4.00]: The Call to Australia group supports the motion, which states:

That there be laid on the Table of the House by 23 April 1996 all papers relating to the Government's consideration of the Report of the Commission of Inquiry into the Lake Cowal gold mine and associated facilities at Cowal West, West Wyalong, proposed by North Gold (WA) Limited, and the determination of the consent to the project.

These papers must be tabled to give honourable members an opportunity to study them. I believe that a select committee of inquiry should be established. Extensive investigations conducted by the commission of inquiry resulted in a report comprising more than 100 pages. The commission of inquiry, which was headed by William Simpson as chairman, and Kevin Cleland as deputy chairman, heard evidence that included scientific and detailed evidence from the Department of Urban Affairs and Planning. The report states:

Our report canvasses the various conservation, environmental, developmental and social issues brought before the Commission of Inquiry. We have weighed and balanced these aspects of the proposed development and are satisfied, subject to compliance with the strict conditions we recommend, that conservation and environmental considerations do not preclude you granting consent to Lake Cowal Gold Project.

After this extensive inquiry the commission agreed that the Minister should grant consent. It is scandalous that the Premier recently announced that the project had been quashed and would not proceed. The Minister for State and Regional Development has spearheaded a campaign to increase jobs in this State.

The Hon. M. R. Egan: Very successfully too.

Reverend the Hon. F. J. NILE: The Treasurer has been campaigning to encourage companies to invest in industry in our State and so provide jobs. He has been doing that successfully and achieved a great deal, for which I congratulate him. But as the Premier has closed down this project, every company will be saying, "What is the point of conducting commissions of inquiry in New South Wales?" Thousands of dollars are spent on these inquiries. Scientific inquiries are conducted and lawyers are hired to present the evidence. Every company involved in inquiries spends hundreds of thousands of dollars, maybe millions, presenting its case. In the case to which we are referring the company and those opposed to the company's project presented their evidence. The umpires made a decision, but Mr Carr overruled it. The reason for that is clear, as reported in the Sun-Herald on 14 April:

Mr Cohen revealed he and Upper House Democrat MP Richard Jones had been key players in the mine's rejection . . .

Why would Mr Carr take notice of the mine's submissions or meet its requests? I do not know whether I should refer this article to the Independent Commission Against Corruption. Was a deal done? Did Mr Carr oppose the goldmine proposals because the Hon. I. Cohen and the Hon. R. S. L. Jones did something for him? This deal has a ring about it. A deal was done in relation to the duck bill and other legislation in this House. Commissions of inquiry should be allowed to present their decisions, and those decisions should be upheld. Are the Greens conducting these inquiries and determining what is happening in this State? That is what the Premier and the Hon. I. Cohen are doing.

The Premier is putting himself above commissions of inquiry and scientific inquiries. What does the Hon. I. Cohen want? If he agrees to this project it will go ahead, but if he vetoes the project it will not go ahead. I believe in democracy and in open inquiries. I do not believe in deals being done behind closed doors. I do not believe one or two members of Parliament should determine the way in which this State should be developed. We must have legal, open and public inquiries and we must respect the decisions that are made. I spoke to community representatives from West Wyalong, who said to me that they were prepared to accept the decision of the commission of inquiry. If the commission said there was to be no mine they would have accepted that decision. However, the Hon. I. Cohen and the Hon. R. S. L. Jones do not accept the umpires' decision.

The Hon. I. Cohen: On a point of order. Reverend the Hon. F. J. Nile is not speaking to the amendment.

Reverend the Hon. F. J. NILE: On the point of order. I was about to conclude by saying that after extensive inquiries, documents should be tabled so we can determine the reason for Mr Carr's decision.

The DEPUTY-PRESIDENT (The Hon. D. J. Gay): Order! Reverend the Hon. F. J. Nile will confine his remarks to the motion.

Reverend the Hon. F. J. NILE: I reiterate that this is an important issue. A project such as this would have benefited this State by creating many jobs and boosting our economy. It would have assisted the people of West Wyalong, who have their backs to the wall. Over a period of 10 years the population in West Wyalong has decreased from 8,000 to 7,000 as a result of the drought and the recession. This project would have created 180 on-site jobs and about 230 ancillary jobs in the region. West Wyalong has one of the lowest
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income levels in the State - enough reason to show a bit of compassion and concern for the people in that community. I support the motion that the documents be tabled.

The Hon. PATRICIA STAUNTON [4.09]: I speak against the motion and the amendment moved by the Hon. Elisabeth Kirkby.

The Hon. D. F. Moppett: As long as you accept mine.

The Hon. PATRICIA STAUNTON: I do not support the amendment of the Hon. D. F. Moppett. I share many of the sentiments of the Hon. I. Cohen. He said that the move by Opposition members in calling for the tabling of these papers was nothing more than an attempt to divert attention from the real issue, which is the decision by the Government to protect a universally acknowledged lake of great international significance to this State. It seems that in filibustering its way on this question of process the Opposition is very happy to see the potential destruction of Lake Cowal and associated wetlands. On the question of process and on the merit of this issue the Opposition is being led by the National Party, which is quite happy to sacrifice the Lake Cowal wetlands, and indeed the potential destruction of 170 species of birds. If the Hon. D. F. Moppett wants to talk about planning process let us talk about the planning process under the previous Government and the way in which that Government handled matters such as the M2. The Leader of the Opposition, Mr Peter Collins, said on Radio 2GB on 10 April in relation to this matter:

For the Government to override it (the commissioner's report) I think is a very serious blow to the planning process. It is a corruption of the planning process

The previous Government held its own commission of inquiry into the M2 tollway. What did it do about it? The commission of inquiry recommended against building the M2 motorway.

The Hon. D. F. Moppett: What has that to do with this motion?

Hon. PATRICIA STAUNTON: If the Hon. D. F. Moppett wants to talk about process I will talk about it and remind him that his government took absolutely no notice of the commission of inquiry's report; indeed, it overrode it. That was the previous Government's attitude to process; force it through. The Ministers of the day, Mr Bruce Baird and Mr Robert Webster, acted corruptly in approving the M2; that was its approach to process. The Hon. D. F. Moppett mentions process now but the bottom line is that the Opposition, led on this issue by the National Party, is quite prepared to allow a cyanide tailings dam the size of 450 football fields to be built on the shores of Lake Cowal.

The Opposition has soiled hands on the question of process, and before it seeks to talk on that subject with any sense of credibility I suggest it look at its own record - and I refer particularly to the M2. This is simply nothing more than a red herring to give support to the company in any legal proceedings it takes on this matter. This is about propping up the company in any proposed legal proceedings, if that is what it is contemplating, and doing it in the most destructive way possible. The Opposition wants to know why this decision was made. It has been given the information but seemingly it is not prepared to accept it. The Opposition had the commission of inquiry report, which said -

The Hon. D. F. Moppett: It said the project could go ahead.

The Hon. PATRICIA STAUNTON: It said:

The Commissioners of Inquiry have recommended approval of the mine proposal and have found that there are no environmental aspects of the proposed development which would preclude the Minister granting development consent, subject to conditions of consent. These conditions include allowing a maximum level of cyanide at the entry point to the tailings dams of 50 mg(CN_WAD/L) (parts per million). This condition is not supported by the Department of Urban Affairs and Planning, the Environment Protection Authority and the National Parks and Wildlife Service who recommended a much lower level in order to reduce the risk to wildlife in the Lake area.

Pursuant to sessional orders business interrupted.

The Hon. J. P. HANNAFORD (Leader of the Opposition) [4.15]: I move:

That this debate be now adjourned until a later hour of the sitting.

Question put.

The House divided.

Mr Bull Mr Moppett
Mrs Chadwick Mrs Nile
Mrs Forsythe Rev. Nile
Mr Gay Dr Pezzutti
Dr Goldsmith Mr Samios
Mr Hannaford Mrs Sham-Ho
Mr Jobling Mr Rowland Smith
Mr Kersten Tellers,
Miss Kirkby Miss Gardiner
Mr Lynn Mr Ryan

Mrs Arena Mr Manson
Dr Burgmann Mr Obeid
Ms Burnswoods Ms Saffin
Mr Cohen Mr Shaw
Mr Dyer Ms Staunton
Mr Egan Mrs Symonds
Mrs Isaksen Mr Vaughan
Mr Johnson
Mr Jones Tellers,
Mr Kaldis Mr Corbett
Mr Macdonald Mr Tingle

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Question so resolved in the negative.

Motion negatived.

Debate adjourned pursuant to sessional orders.


The Hon. R. D. DYER, by leave: I wish to make a personal explanation. On Tuesday of this week I was asked a question by the Hon. Patricia Forsythe regarding the regrading of the position of Director-General, Department of Community Services. In answering that question I said:

Since the position of Director-General of the Department of Community Services was last reviewed in 1989, well before Mr Semple was appointed - indeed, it was when Mr Vern Dalton was the director-general - the department lost responsibility for juvenile justice.

Later that day, in response to a further question from the Hon. Patricia Forsythe, I made the following statement:

Honourable members will be interested to know that under the administration of the previous Government Mr Semple's appointment was made on the basis of a statement of duties that had not been updated since 1989. The Opposition is embarrassed that it did not bother to update the statement of duties.

This morning I was advised that those statements are incorrect, and I apologise to members opposite. As I stated to the House, the Public Employment Office attached, in its correspondence to me dated 16 October 1995, a statement that indicated it was the current statement of duties. It was on this basis that I made the statements I have just referred to. I now know that was not the case and a new statement of duties for the Director-General, Department of Community Services, was confirmed by Mr R. Humphry, then Director-General of the Premier's Department, on 19 August 1991. The Public Employment Office advises that it has no copy of the 1991 position description in its files. I make it clear to the House that at no stage prior to today did the Director-General of Department of Community Services or anyone else - including the Public Employment Office - inform me of the existence of the position description of August 1991.


Motion by the Hon. M. R. Egan agreed to:

That this House at its rising today do adjourn until Tuesday 23 April 1996 at 2.30 p.m.

Motion by the Hon. M. R. Egan agreed to:

That the review under section 32 of the Protected Disclosures Act 1994 be referred to the Committee on the Office of the Ombudsman.

Message sent to the Legislative Assembly advising it of the resolution.

The Hon. M. R. EGAN (Treasurer, Minister for Energy, Minister for State and Regional Development, Minister Assisting the Premier, and Vice-President of the Executive Council) [4.30]: I move:

That this House grants leave to officers assisting the Royal Commission into the New South Wales Police Service to inspect the in-camera evidence taken before the Committee on the Independent Commission Against Corruption on condition:

(1) That the evidence is inspected at Parliament House;

(2) That any information obtained be used by the Royal Commission to pursue appropriate further inquiry without revealing to any other person other than the Royal Commissioner and officers of the Royal Commission, the contents of the in-camera evidence; and its content not made public;

(3) That before adducing into evidence of the Royal Commission any evidence taken before the Committee on the Independent Commission Against Corruption, the Royal Commissioner, His Honour Justice Wood, seeks the leave of the Legislative Council.

The royal commissioner has requested access to the material covered by this motion. The Carr Government has supported the royal commission from its inception. The Labor Party supported the establishment of the royal commission and the extension of its terms of reference to cover alleged links between police and paedophiles. It is important that the royal commission have access to all the material it needs to ensure that it is supported in its vital endeavours. I urge honourable members to support the motion.

The Hon. J. P. HANNAFORD (Leader of the Opposition) [4.31]: The Opposition supports the motion. Such material should be made available to the royal commission to allow it to continue its excellent work.

Motion agreed to.

Message sent to the Legislative Assembly advising it of the resolution.


The Hon. M. R. EGAN (Treasurer, Minister for Energy, Minister for State and Regional Development, Minister Assisting the Premier, and Vice-President of the Executive Council) [4.33]: I move:

That this House do now adjourn.

The Hon. J. F. RYAN [4.33]: I have some important questions regarding an organisation in the Liverpool area called South West Lebanese Australian Association. Recently a Liberal Party colleague, Counsellor Tom Glavich, asked Liverpool City Council to account for a number of grants made to this association over the past four
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years, including the circumstances surrounding a ratepayer-funded subsidy of $2,539 given to the association in 1993. It appears that Liverpool City Council has been helping the association in a number of other ways which fall outside existing policies for assisting community groups and which were not public knowledge until a series of articles appeared recently in a local newspaper.

The association claims to have 300 members, to offer assistance to members of the Lebanese community in the Liverpool area and to run Saturday morning language classes at the Sadleir Public School. The association did not have office space until 1993 when it was given accommodation in Liverpool City Council owned offices. However, it seems that, unlike all other community groups that lease space from Liverpool council, the association has not paid rent for its accommodation for more than three years. In 1992 the association sought and appeared to receive $1,949 from Liverpool council, through the efforts of the former mayor of Liverpool, Mark Latham, for unpaid phone bills and garbage collection charges.

In February, the Deputy Mayor of Liverpool, Counsellor Alex Sanchez, arranged a donation of $2,000 to the association. I have copies of the three most recent financial statements of South West Lebanese Australian Association - as an incorporated association it is obliged to file financial statements with the Department of Fair Trading - which were evidently prepared by a private accounting firm. The income statements do not refer to the donations and the statements of liabilities do not refer to the unpaid rent. However, the statements list three grants totalling $8,108 for 1992, 1993 and 1994. I have checked with both the Ethnic Affairs Commission of New South Wales and the Federal Department of Immigration and Multicultural Affairs, and neither of them has any record of making such grants. Something is wrong with the financial statements.

I am further advised that the association, outside the four-person committee headed by Mr Ali Karnib, has no voting members. Obviously questions need to be asked about the relationship between the association and Liverpool City Council. The association, which is accountable to no-one, has enjoyed much better treatment from Liverpool City
Council than have other community groups. It has enjoyed the use of council-owned office space rent free for three years and has had its garbage and phone bills paid by ratepayers. There is a possible explanation for the relationship between the association and Liverpool City Council. The association's leader, Mr Ali Karnib, is one of five Lebanese community leaders who claim that they control 200 votes in Liverpool branches of the Australian Labor Party. Mr Sam Bargshoon, a Lebanese community leader, claimed last month in a local newspaper that "we are the most powerful group in the ALP. Whoever wins preselection needs our community's support."

Have ALP members of Liverpool City Council been throwing ratepayer funds at such organisations without proper scrutiny in order to boost their efforts for ALP preselection? Mr Latham helped the South West Lebanese Australian Association in 1994 when he contested the Federal seat of Werriwa. The State member for Liverpool, Mr Lynch, who defeated Mr Peter Anderson for preselection by only nine votes in 1994, helped the association with office space in 1993. Mr Sanchez, who is busy obtaining the numbers to take over from Ted Grace in the Federal seat of Fowler, helped the association by donating $2,000 in February. The Minister for Fair Trading, the Minister for Local Government and the Minister for Ethnic Affairs, together with Liverpool City Council, need to ask questions about what the association does and how it spends its money.

I am not criticising the Lebanese community in Liverpool. Lebanese are fine, decent people, and obviously I do not suggest that supporting the ALP is wrong. However, if the Lebanese community receives public funds, it should properly account for those funds, as all other communities groups do, including those that help people with disabilities and people with ethnic backgrounds. Such organisations need to account for public money and to adhere to proper scrutiny. Any suggestion that councils are helping such organisations for the purpose of assisting political careers is improper, and such a practice must be stopped.

Motion agreed to.

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