LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL
Tuesday, 24th March, 1992
______
The President (The Hon. Max Frederick Willis) took the chair at 2.30 p.m.
The President offered the Prayers.
INDEPENDENT COMMISSION AGAINST CORRUPTION
Report
The President, in accordance with section 78(1) of the Independent Commission Against Corruption Act, tabled the report of the Independent Commission Against Corruption on an investigation into local government, public duties and conflicting interests dated March 1992.
BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE
Formal Business
The PRESIDENT: Order! As there are an inordinately large number of notices of motion on the business paper to be called over as formal business on each sitting day I propose in future to seek the leave of the House to call over general business notices of motion as formal business in globo. If objection is taken to the in globo procedure, I will call over notices of motion seriatim in the usual manner. Is leave granted to call over general business notices of motion Nos 1 to 43 inclusive as formal business in globo?
Leave granted.
The PRESIDENT: Is there any objection to general business notices of motion Nos 1 to 43 being taken as formal?
Mr Egan: Object.
The Hon. J. R. Johnson: Mr President, to clarify the announcement you have just made, should I take it that if a member objected to any matter between 1 and 43 - say No. 16 - being dealt with in that way the member would call the number and the question on that matter would be put separately?
The PRESIDENT: The procedure could be handled either way. If there were a general objection, I would go through the whole list seriatim; or a member could object to a particular number being dealt with in that way.
The Hon. J. R. Johnson: Mr President, with due respect, that may be a better method.
The PRESIDENT: It would depend on the circumstances and the desire of the member.
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"MANAGING THE PARLIAMENT" REPORT
The Hon. E. P. PICKERING (Minister for Police and Emergency Services and Vice-President of the Executive Council) [2.35]: I table for the information of honourable members a copy of a report tabled this day in the Legislative Assembly which is entitled "Managing the Parliament". This report has been prepared jointly by the Minister for the Environment and Deputy Director-General of the Cabinet Office, who propose significant changes in the administration of the Parliament. It is intended to put legislation before the two Houses this session to provide a vehicle for debating the report and the directions contained in it. As it affects all honourable members I commend the report for their reading.
Ordered to be printed.
PETITIONS
Forestry Commission
Petition praying that the Forestry Commission of New South Wales be reformed in accordance with the recommendations of the Public Accounts Committee and that the House urge the Government to act immediately for the good of our environmental heritage and the health of the plantation timber industry, received from the Hon. R. S. L. Jones.
Cat Desexing
Petition praying that because wildlife is threatened by predatory feral cats, and because unrestricted breeding of cats results in their destruction, starvation, injury and disease, there should be compulsory desexing of all domestic cats other than those with registered breeders, received from the Hon. R. S. L. Jones.
ADJOURNMENT DEBATE: MINISTERIAL REPLY
NRMA EXECUTIVE SALARIES
The Hon. E. P. PICKERING: During the adjournment debate on 11th March the Leader for the Opposition launched what could be described only as a fairly cowardly attack upon the reputation of the Chief Executive of the National Roads and Motorists Association, Mr John Lamble. In view of the attack that was perpetrated under parliamentary privilege, I thought it appropriate to read to the House a letter I have received in response to a statement by the Leader of the Opposition from Mr Don Mackay, who is the President of the National Roads and Motorists Association. The letter speaks for itself and I will simply commit it to the record. The letter, addressed to me and dated 12th March, reads as follows:
A story in the news media today discusses the extension of the appointment of the NRMA, Chief Executive, Mr John Lamble. This story follows comments made during a parliamentary adjournment debate yesterday. I can categorically state that there is nothing wrong or illegal in the extension of Mr Lamble's term. The extension was not a secret deal.
Mr Lamble will complete 25 years of service with the organisation on the 19.2.1993 and some time ago requested to retire on 28.2.1993. This was specifically confirmed by the NRMA Council at its meetings on 27.2.1992.
The Hon. M. R. Egan: How many months was that after the appointment was extended by the former chairman?
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The Hon. E. P. PICKERING: The House listened to the Leader of the Opposition in silence. Perhaps he might extend the same courtesy to me. The letter continues:
Mr Lamble's salary is reasonable, as compared to similar organisations. This has been verified by a survey in the Independent Monthly newspaper. In addition, the Hay Group of remuneration consultants estimated the NRMA CEO's salary level to be in the middle of the range for comparable organisations.
Both Mr Lamble and the organisation have contributed to the superannuation fund over the last 24 years and his entitlement is fully-funded.
To achieve the financial and membership success we enjoy, the NRMA needs the best and brightest executives. We have a policy of paying market rates to ensure these staff are not poached by our competitors.
In his time with the organisation, Mr Lamble has played a major part in the nett worth of the NRMA Insurance Group growing from $12 million to almost $1.2 billion, and premiums increasing in that time from $26 million to $1.1 billion. Similarly, he has overseen a continued growth in the NRMA membership, which now stands at 2.1 million. These achievements are outstanding and demonstrate the tremendous role John Lamble has played in the NRMA Group's success.
John has also played a large part in our successful investment strategy. The return on our investments allows us to offer the cheapest membership fee in Australia and offer competitive insurance premiums.
The Chief Executive Officer's position is a very important one, acting as a director of the 17 companies in the NRMA Group, with 4200 staff and managing $3.5 billion in assets.
The NRMA is the most financially secure insurance operation in Australia. Our financial reserves are far more than required by law. This ensures we will always be able to cover claims by our policyholders.
The NRMA would welcome discussions with the State Attorney General or any other MP or MLC, because we have nothing to hide.
The letter is signed, "Regards, Don Mackay, NRMA President".
RACISM
Matter of Public Interest
The Hon. P. F. O'GRADY [2.47]: I move:
That the following important matter of public interest should be discussed forthwith:
Racist attitudes in the community.
The Hon. E. P. Pickering: The Government agrees to the matter being debated.
Motion agreed to.
The Hon. P. F. O'GRADY [2.47]: Generally speaking, Australians have always been racist. First we were racist against Aboriginal communities. There is no doubt about that. Then we started on the immigrants who came here from Europe. Now we have moved to the Asian community. Today we, as a community, are still racist against all these groups. The question for us today is: do we care enough about what is happening to admit and discuss the problem so that we can start to take positive steps to help eradicate it? As the Prime Minister has stated, every person has a duty to do something to reverse the intolerable racism that pervades our society. Even the slightest
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hint of racism should be criticised at the outset. As members of Parliament, we must take the lead, together with community leaders, to rid our community of racism. We must take special precautions to help today's Koori and ethnic children. They deserve to grow up with some self-esteem and dignity.
This is a matter of the greatest public importance, because if we do nothing now in the face of overt racist comments from those who should uphold the law and set standards for the rest of the community, we are saying to every non-white: "That is your status in life. We gave it to you, but we will not fix it". We must accept the responsibility now - not tomorrow, not next year. Racism in New South Wales will not change while governments and community leaders sit back and do nothing. One place to start, and one that would certainly please many Koori leaders, is the Police Service. Attitudes recently exhibited by some members of the Police Service are a disgrace. They deserve the greatest condemnation, but they are only a fraction of a much wider problem. For many non-white groups, especially Kooris, the police are a constant presence in their lives. When one reads what has been said in many thousands of pages of reports, both State and Federal, during the past few years, one learns that simply being an Aborigine in New South Wales means that one is a target of the police. I cite as one example of that the Koori people who were travelling in a nice red car in Redfern earlier this month and were pulled over by police. The police admitted that they suspected the car was stolen because they were not used to Koori people driving such cars.
With attitudes such as that following them in their day-to-day lives, how can Kooris be expected to stay out of the police line of fire? They see persecution and double standards and have racist comments thrown at them everywhere. But we can do something about that if we want to. If we want Koori people to have something more than contempt for the Government and the Police Service, we as politicians must stand up and take immediate action. The inherent racism within the community and the failure of upper echelons to admit that the problem exists and face it head on lie at the very heart of the problem. Community leaders, including those in the Police Service, should do just that - lead. If they blame someone else and do nothing, they allow the ugliness of racism to continue and spread. I have to wonder how anything can be done about racism in the community when no one can get through to the people who have the opportunity to effect change through policy. In his report following the inquiry into the death of David Gundy, Commissioner Wootten stated that a continual complaint of Aborigines is of police harassment. They feel that Aborigines are targeted by police, are kept under special scrutiny and picked on for any pretext and sometimes none at all.
This morning I had handed to me some literature which is part of a campaign that is being run by some residents in Greystanes who oppose the establishment of a women's refuge, especially for Asian women who are the victims of domestic violence. The residents claim that the refuge being set up with Department of Housing assistance will be a front for a brothel. One resident complains about Asian women coming in to his "leafy quiet secure middle-class family area". He goes on to say that the refuge is "nothing more than a women's prison". A photograph of the resident with a four-year-old child appeared in a local newspaper. I suppose this incident will be the introduction of that child to community racism. We now have to try to do the right thing so that during that child's schooling years those wrongs are righted. Those who have suffered most at the hands of racists have been the indigenous people of this country. For 200 years they have suffered cruel and brutal treatment at the hands of white people. In the early days when they tried to group and defend themselves, they were mown down. When they tried to live as best they could in appalling conditions being treated like work dogs, we stole their children. When we bothered to mention them in our schools, we
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presented images of savages or of poor Bennelong.
In the 1990s we have the intolerable spectacle of some police officers proudly displaying racist attitudes. Many Koori kids have watched the farce of their relatives and family friends being called worse names by some police officers. When the person responds in similar terms, the kids see them being hauled off to the police station. Then there are court appearances, the conflicting versions of events, the inevitable fines or gaol. No wonder these kids grow up to hate the police and to get caught in the same vicious cycle. They see persecution, double standards and have racist comments thrown at them everywhere. All honourable members should know the following shocking facts. Koori children comprise almost a quarter of all children in New South Wales juvenile detention centres, and they are 25 times more likely to be arrested than are white children. Koori adults represent 14 per cent of the New South Wales prison population - an 80 per cent increase since 1988.
Attempts are being made to change attitudes. In some areas, police are working with Koori communities to correct the overrepresentation of Kooris in custody but, unless we focus on the inherent racist attitudes, these will be token gestures only. For example, in September 1989 a conference for police was organised by the Office of Aboriginal Affairs, titled "The Over-representation of Aboriginal Youth in the Juvenile Justice System". This was an example of police and Koori workers trying to do something positive about their relations. But the pages of recommendations went unheeded. The conference sought a mere $15,000 to enable a statewide conference with Koori community input to be convened, but the organiser could not get a response from the Minister for Police. Such a conference, designed to seek endorsement from 100 Koori community leaders for the recommendation of the police conference, was a start in the right direction. The Government's only response was to rid itself of what it saw as an unnecessary portfolio. The Premier abolished his own job as Minister for Aboriginal Affairs. The Minister for Police and the police commissioner want us to believe that the police we saw on the "Cop It Sweet" program, and those who mocked the tragic deaths of Lloyd Boney and David Gundy, are part of a small group of racist police in the service - the bad apple syndrome.
[Interruption]
I will come to that.
The Hon. E. P. Pickering: You do not believe they represent every police officer in New South Wales?
The Hon. P. F. O'GRADY: No, certainly not. I do congratulate the police commissioner for taking an immediate stand on this matter in relation to the individuals involved. He at least recognises that the racist attitudes among these police officers are intolerable, but for some reason the commissioner, too, still clings to the bad apple syndrome. With that attitude I do not believe we can get down to the real problem. I am sure that, in his private thoughts, the Minister for Police knows the truth - that racism against Kooris is widespread in the community, and therefore it is also in the police force. The commissioner told us that police officers are just individuals from the community, therefore they represent the community view - and I accept that totally. I believe it is the responsibility of the Police Service to take action within that service to ensure that racist attitudes do not exist in the service and honourable members should recognise that, if racist attitudes are removed from the Police Service, this will filter
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through to the community.
Enough investigations and reports have been made to tell us the exact problem. In 1989, the Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research put together a report about what was perceived by white society as a "law and order crisis in outback towns". One of the report's authors, Chris Cunnen, told the Australian Broadcasting Corporation's "The Law Report" in August that there had been submissions from chambers of commerce, local shires, local businesses and other organisations in the region, and also petitions from individuals. What was found was that the content of the submission revealed an unmistakable degree of racism. In those towns there is a struggle. That struggle manifests itself in a range of areas, as part of a struggle against policing and behaviour and public order. On the other side, the struggle is within chambers of commerce and local shires, which want to impose as much control over the Aboriginal people in those areas as possible. The community needs to take on board the findings and recommendations which have already been made, and must demand that racist attacks by police on Kooris are treated seriously. Criminal or departmental charges must be laid when wrongs are discovered. The Human Rights Commission's National Inquiry into Racist Violence, tabled in Federal Parliament in April last year, found that 82 per cent of youths incarcerated in juvenile detention centres in New South Wales had been assaulted by police. In all these crises, the Minister for Police has been silent but he still expects these Koori children to have respect for the police. As the March 1991 regional report of the Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in custody stated:
The nature of police culture should be thoroughly studied and publicly discussed and examined.
Instead, in New South Wales the Minister for Police attacks anyone who questions any police action. He refuses to look at the issues and to ensure action is taken against those police who break the rules. He refuses to answer questions. I have to wonder how we can do anything about racism in the community when no one can get through to the people who have the opportunity to effect changes through their policies. Commissioner Wootten, in his report of the inquiry into the death of David Gundy, stated:
A continual complaint of Aboriginals is of police harassment. They feel that Aboriginals are targeted by police, that they are kept under special scrutiny, and "picked on" for any pretext and sometimes none at all.
Later, he stated:
. . . from an Aboriginal viewpoint, what happened to Mr Gundy could be seen as a classic example of police harassment, and as illustrating how, "no matter what you do, police will not let you alone".
Commissioner Wootten found that the police had failed to properly investigate Mr Gundy's death. Still nothing has happened. As far as the community is aware, no departmental charges have been laid against the police involved in the illegal raid on Mr Gundy's house, despite advice from counsel for the Crown Solicitor's office that charges should be laid. I find it unbelievable that a police inspector, John Burke, told the media that the Wootten report was "an entirely predictable outcome of a biased arena". Such comments highlight racism at the highest level of the police service. What is the community to make of such comments? A royal commission was set up in an attempt to discover why so many Kooris have died while in police custody and a New South Wales police inspector has dismissed it as biased. Even worse - and this is something which concerns me greatly - he said that he would never concede that there was a mistake on the part of the police. Comments such as this seem to bring praise for police from
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their fellow officers. I remember being totally disgusted when I read such comments.
Lloyd Boney also died whilst in police custody. The report into his death was highly critical of police. It found that they had failed to abide by police instructions, and had lied on oath to the inquiry. Departmental charges were again recommended. The commissioner was forced to complain that the police and the Government had failed to co-operate with the inquiry. Attitudes such as these engender racism in the community. People read the papers and watch the television news and some think: well, if it is all right for the police, the Minister for Police and the Government, it is all right for me. Yesterday the Minister for School Education and Youth Affairs urged anyone in schools or in the Department of School Education who had experienced racism to come forward. That is a laudable idea and something which should be extended. But, when the community sees Kooris dying and this Government doing nothing but praising police officers, why should anyone come forward?
Today the release is expected of a report by the Australian section of the International Commission of Jurists into Kooris and their relations with police in Bourke, Brewarrina and Walgett. Though I have not seen the report and cannot comment on it, I sincerely hope that this report is not ignored by the Government. The point that needs to be made today is that racism in any form is unacceptable; that racism, when it has been expressed in a formal sense by police officers or government officials, is something that should not be tolerated. The Goulburn Police Academy addresses such issues, but I believe one of the points which emerges from the last couple of weeks is that there needs to be follow-up work. One program cannot overcome the problem. The Government must ensure that the police, as representatives of the community, have regular updates on how to overcome racist attitudes which are in the community and which no one should pretend do not exist. These attitudes are widespread. I believe the community has to recognise that those attitudes are widespread; that they can only be overcome - [Time expired.]
The Hon. E. P. PICKERING (Minister for Police and Emergency Services and Vice-President of the Executive Council) [3.2]: It is unfortunate that today the Hon. P. F. O'Grady sought to introduce a motherhood motion which honourable members would accept without reservation, but in the first few seconds of his contribution turned the motion into a trojan horse to attack his pet enemy, the New South Wales Police Service. As I have said on many occasions in this House, the 17,000 employees of the New South Wales Police Service are a cross-section of the community they serve. Doubtless, some officers within that service, as in the community, have unacceptable attitudes on a range of matters, including racial prejudice. The Police Service was not assisted by the President of the Police Association who said on television that he was a racist. I submit the gentleman does not understand what is meant by the term, as a subsequent investigation revealed, but it was unfortunate that he said it on national television. However, under the chairmanship of Commissioner Avery in the past six years and his successor, Commissioner Lauer, the Police Service has tried valiantly to come to grips with the difficult problems it confronts in the community, especially problems associated with the deplorable conditions and circumstances in which many Aboriginal people live in the community. The Police Service of New South Wales did not create those conditions. The community of New South Wales created them.
The Hon. Ann Symonds: The police were the arm of government policy.
The Hon. E. P. PICKERING: The Police Service was an arm of government
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policy in a less than enlightened world. Recently, Commissioner Lauer reminded the community that it was not that long ago that the Police Service was used by the community to seize young Aboriginal children and take them from their homes. Clearly that did not help the community, the Police Service or the current situation. Honourable members cannot blame the Police Service as an instrument of government improperly used so many years ago. I would argue that today the Police Service is the most enlightened department of government with regard to this matter. It is the one department, whether it likes it or not, that must deal with the situation. Other departments can avoid their responsibilities. What distresses me is the way in which people, such as the Hon. P. F. O'Grady, do everything they can to denigrate the Police Service when it is really trying to do its best. I was pleased to read the comments of Kevin Waller published in the Sydney Morning Herald of 19th March, which read:
Did you know that there has not been a single death of an Aborigine in a police cell in NSW since 1987? Did you know that in the past three years there have been 24 deaths by suicide in NSW prisons, of whom only three were Aborigines? Do you remember that the Australian Royal Commissioner into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody was unable to isolate a single case out of 99 investigated where any police or prison officer was guilty of any crime in connection with the death in custody of any Aborigine? Did you know that the NSW Royal Commissioner, J. H. Wootten, QC, conceded that "Once Aboriginals are in custody, they do not die at a faster rate than other prisoners" and when in custody they do not suffer from discriminatory treatment?
One would never get the impression from the general debate surrounding the Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody that those statements are statements of fact. They are statements of fact contained in the report of the royal commissioner. I ask Opposition members to understand that the 13,000 sworn officers to a significant degree are highly dedicated, professional, mature, well-trained responsible police officers trying to do a job in what must be the most difficult circumstances. These officers are the most scrutinised group of people working for the public service. Every complaint made against them is the subject of a formal legal process. Complaints are fully and properly investigated not only by the department, but also by the Ombudsman. That does not suggest for one moment that some officers within the Police Service have not let down the side. I was most distressed at the behaviour of some officers during the "Cop It Sweet" program. However, I remind honourable members that one particular officer whose language was unacceptable during the filming of that program recently risked his life to rescue several people from incineration when their car collided and exploded. No one has given that officer any pats on the back for his action. No one seems to care that recently he almost died saving the lives of other people.
The Hon. Ann Symonds: That is not true.
The Hon. E. P. PICKERING: His actions hardly rated a mention in the press, but he was held up to ridicule by the community for swearing on television. That police officer received a valour award for his heroic actions. That is the other side of the equation. The Police Service has recognised the deplorable conditions in which large concentrations of Aboriginal people are living. Again, that is a matter to be deplored by all of us but it is a matter for which the entire community is responsible - certainly not the Police Service. The report of the Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody comprised 3,000 pages and contained 339 recommendations of which 80 were specifically related to the Police Service.
The Hon. Franca Arena: How much was spent on that inquiry?
The Hon. E. P. PICKERING: The cost of the Royal Commission was $40
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million.
The Hon. Ann Symonds: Are we enriched by it?
The Hon. E. P. PICKERING: I will allow the honourable member to make that decision. A working party was established by the department comprising senior officers from all command areas of the Police Service. They examined the recommendations in detail and on 25th July, 1991, submitted a report to the State Executive Group. The working party indicated that of the 80 recommendations specifically related to the Police Service, 22 had been fully implemented prior to the publication of the report, 45 had been partly or wholly implemented but required further consideration, and 13 required fresh consideration. On 4th October, 1991, a further report was submitted to the State Executive Group, which indicated that of the 80 recommendations 50 had been fully implemented, 21 had been partly or wholly implemented but required further consideration, and nine required fresh consideration. Therefore, of the 80 recommendations that related specifically to the Police Service, 65 per cent had been implemented and 26 per cent had been partly implemented.
The New South Wales Police Service has also put into place several initiatives over the past 12 months to boost the representation of Koori people in its ranks. The Police Service has an ongoing commitment to recruiting Koori people. At present 130 police officers have been identified as Australian Aborigines. The Police Academy has had one intake this year in January, and that class contained seven Aboriginal students. I have met these students. One is a 35-year-old man with five children who lives in Nowra. It is the second time he has tried to be accredited as a police officer. He failed on the first occasion on educational grounds. He has now completed a special training course in a technical and further education college, which was organised by the Police Service, and he has proudly come back to try again. When I met him last week his morale was very high, and I have absolutely no doubt that he will make it; he will be a very fine police officer. In the April intake, which is to occur shortly, there will be eight Aboriginal students. Nine of these 15 students will enter the academy through the emergency services preparation course, which is conducted in conjunction with TAFE. These bridging courses were established by the department to ensure that the main impediment to Aboriginal people joining the Police Service, namely, their generally low educational qualifications, can be reduced in its effect to ensure that they can compete with the rest of the population.
When I first became Minister, I went to Bourke and was appalled at the relationship between police and Aboriginal communities. I was asked privately by police to give them tear gas to be used in the event of a riot. That appalled me so much that the concept of Aboriginal community liaison officers was introduced to Bourke. Community liaison officers have done a marvellous job throughout the State. The relationship between Aboriginal communities and the Police Service in Bourke is now a 100 per cent improvement on what it used to be. There are now 31 Aboriginal community liaison officers employed within the Police Service. Four of these officers have been recruited in the past 12 months.
The Hon. Ann Symonds: Do they have cars?
The Hon. E. P. PICKERING: Yes, they do.
The Hon. P. F. O'Grady: All of them?
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The Hon. E. P. PICKERING: I assume that they do. I cannot be confident about that. Certainly those officers whom I have met have cars and radios. All I can say is that when I talk to patrol commanders about Aboriginal community liaison officers they generally say that they are worth 10 police officers because they do a marvellous job. They certainly enhance the interface between police and Aboriginal communities for a variety of reasons. It has been a marvellous program. It is an ongoing program, and one which I have supported -
The Hon. Ann Symonds: They need to have cars so that they can be fully mobile.
The Hon. E. P. PICKERING: I would be very surprised if they are not mobile. I will take the trouble to check whether Aboriginal community liaison officers all have cars where it is appropriate. The three officers in Redfern, I imagine, would not need cars because they simply walk from the station into the Aboriginal community. I doubt that they really need cars. I suspect that where cars are needed the Police Service would have provided them. If they have not been provided, the officers obviously would be less effective than the department would want them to be. I wish that the Hon. P. F. O'Grady would get the bee out of his bonnet with regard to the New South Wales Police Service. Any group of men and women 13,000 strong will always include some people about whom we are not all that thrilled.
I noticed only last week - and Reverend the Hon. F. J. Nile must have been appalled at this - that someone said that 15 per cent of ministers of religion are guilty of sexual assault upon women. I find that to be an appallingly stupid thing to say. I imagine that it is an outrageous lie that someone could say that ministers of religion are capable of assaulting women who come to the church of an evening to put flowers in the church. This provides a clear indication of how difficult it is for a police Minister or commissioner of police to be able to say to the Parliament, "Of my 13,000 men and women, there are 13,000 absolutely perfect human beings". That would be a stupidity. The Hon. P. F. O'Grady is very quick to pick up the odd transgression and blow it out of all proportion, as the rest of the community is prepared to do. He has not come into this House once to congratulate the Police Service on the sort of service delivered to his community. He has come to me on many occasions seeking support. He knows that. A sympathetic approach has been taken to the problems and a lot of work has been done. I do not see too much evidence of people coming to this Chamber and saying, "Thank you very much for a job well done". I do not see any evidence of it at all. [Time expired.]
The Hon. FRANCA ARENA [3.17]: I congratulate my colleague the Hon. P. F. O'Grady on bringing this important matter to the attention of the House and I support wholeheartedly what he has said regarding racism against Aboriginal people. I am happy that this debate takes place on 24th March, a day in the week of solidarity for people struggling against racism and racial discrimination, as noted by the General Assembly of the United Nations. Unfortunately, racism is a blight on our society. It is important that we identify it, discuss it and take the necessary steps to combat it. Racism is endemic to all societies and all groups, and it is sad and alarming to see groups which were discriminated against 30 or 40 years ago now discriminating against newcomers. The themes are the same - only the targets change. The words "reffos", "wogs" and "dagoes", for example, are now being replaced by "slopey-eyed" and similar niceties. We have to take a stand and ensure that we fight racism at every opportunity, because the effect of racism is alienation from our society, with all its grave consequences.
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At times complaints about racism might seem trivial to some people. I give as an example a case in which I was involved recently. A person rang a radio station and referred to the Sri Lankan cricket team as the "chocolates". Some people might think that the word "chocolates" is not offensive, but if people are allowed to get away with such name-calling it will only get worse. This is why the intervention of the Anti-Discrimination Board is important at an early stage - not necessarily for sanctions to be put in place but for assistance in helping to explain how offensive certain words can be. The matter of racial discrimination is quite serious in the area of talkback radio, where people are often allowed to express aggressive and insulting personal opinions, often incited by the host of the talkback show. There is no time for me to go into detail on the type of material often heard from luminaries such as Ron Casey, John Laws, John Pearce and Stan Zemanek. They seem to think that a radio licence is a personal licence to affront and insult some of their fellow Australians. Unfortunately, neither the Federation of Australian Commercial Television Stations nor the Federation of Australian Radio Broadcasters have developed self-regulatory codes of practice. I call on the Australian Broadcasting Tribunal to oblige them to do so.
It is not much use for the Anti-Discrimination Board, the Human Rights Commission and the Minister for School Education - as she did recently at Marrickville School; she promised to send some material but we have not seen it yet - to promote programs to combat racism in schools and in the community when one can hear commentators on radio getting away with racist remarks. The previous Labor Government, just before losing office in 1988, presented to Parliament a racial vilification bill. The Greiner Government then presented a partially modified bill in 1990. The Opposition was happy to support the racial vilification bill introduced in 1990. But it is now time to have a national Act of that kind to operate in every State of Australia to counteract racism. Any doubts about the amount of racism in our society would be dispelled by the 1991 report of the Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission titled Racist Violence. The report clearly identifies racial harassment, racist propaganda and racist harassment, including episodes of violence against Aborigines, Asian Australians, Arab Australians, Jewish Australians and any other group that can be imagined. We have in this country an organisation called the League of Rights, which promotes anti-Jewish propaganda and talks of a Jewish world conspiracy and the protocol of Zion. Members of this group are dangerous lunatics and, despite the fact that they have been denounced many times, they seem to find a way to continue their hateful work.
Of course, the more visible a person is, the more likely he or she is to be subjected to racial discrimination or racist violence. Visibility may be based on physical appearance, for example being Asian, or dress, for example wearing the hijab or Muslim women's headscarf. Indeed, Muslim women especially during the Gulf War suffered - but even today suffer - discrimination and racist attacks only because they wear different clothes. At times the discrimination is also at official levels. The Anti-Discrimination Board and the Ethnic Affairs Commission have received many complaints about the difficulties that certain communities have had in wanting to build a mosque, a buddhist temple or simply an Asian community centre. I will not go into details, but members will remember the recent problems with Campbelltown council. Just last week I was called by the President of the Vietnamese Women's Association, who was distressed by an article dated 17th March in the Parramatta Mercury, under the headline "Refuge, ‘sex haven'". This supposed sex haven will be a women's refuge for Indo-chinese women and children who are victims of domestic violence. The article states in part:
A close-knit Greystanes community claims a refuge opening next month in leafy Bolaro Avenue will become a haven for sex industry undesirables.
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Residents say the refuge, for Indo-Asian female victims of domestic violence, will be "a front for a brothel".
"Domestic can mean anything," says adjoining neighbour, Roger Cox, a TV actor.
"Places like these are used by women running away from pimps or seeking refuge from older men."
What do honourable members think of such garbage that is printed in the newspapers? It is a disgrace to journalism and to those who print the newspapers. Women and children who have been abused have to suffer such additional insult. My solidarity and support goes out to the Indo-Chinese Women's Refuge and to the Vietnamese Women's Association. They have all my support and I am willing to express that support in public and other forums. It is quite obvious from the newspaper article that racism is alive and well in that part of the world, as it is everywhere else. There are people in our community who take a stand against racism, and are attacked because of their anti-racist stance and not because of their ethnicity. One of those people who comes to mind is the Reverend Dorothy McMahon, who has been the victim of repeated attacks because of her courageous stance against racism. She was attacked by members of National Action, a neo-nazi style organisation.
The Hon. E. P. Pickering: And the police caught them for her.
The Hon. FRANCA ARENA: Yes, they did an excellent job, and I want to put that on record.
The Hon. E. P. Pickering: The Hon. P. F. O'Grady criticised them in this House because he said they were not doing an excellent job. In fact, the police put a lot of them in gaol.
The Hon. FRANCA ARENA: I salute the Reverend Dorothy McMahon for her courage, as I salute all the people who take a stand against all types of racism - people who are prepared to stand up and be counted. The reality is that in Australia we have a strong dichotomy. On the one hand, our very ethos, our national character, is to give people a fair go. On the other hand we still have deeply embedded in us the fear of the so-called yellow peril, the fear of being overwhelmed by cultures that we do not understand. Whilst we have overcome some of the overt racist attitudes and some of the fears of the past, I also believe that, deep down, some of us are still prisoners of deeply buried prejudices. Covert racism is as dangerous as the overt type. We abolished the white Australia policy but there is still, in many quarters, the white Australia mentality. We must overcome it and we must ensure that future generations of Australians have a more enlightened attitude to the issue of race. We can do it, and we can become a showplace for the rest of the world. We can show to the rest of the world that it is possible for people of different races and religions to live in peace and harmony. If we cannot succeed in Australia, there is little hope for the rest of the world. But we must be forever vigilant of racism and fight back at every opportunity.
The Hon. ELISABETH KIRKBY [3.26]: I support the motion by the Hon. P. F. O'Grady and take this opportunity to discuss racist attitudes in the community. Over the past few weeks the majority of Australians were appalled by the overt racist behaviour of some police towards Aborigines in the documentary "Cop It Sweet" and then only a few days later by the sickening footage of police officers parodying Lloyd Boney and David Gundy. It is not good enough to say that the police officers singled out are members of our community and only represent certain attitudes in society. Though
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most Australians do not hold such extreme and overt views, it is most important that at the start of Racial Harmony Week we are aware of racist attitudes and the many forms they take in the community. Over the past decade or so, government policy has been dominated by the concept of multiculturalism, which holds that interethnic differences can, if properly managed, enrich social cohesion, give all groups equal opportunity and thereby enhance Australian culture. However, if we are to analyse racism, true multiculturalism means that we must recognise three basic tenets: we must stress the importance of cultural understanding and communication between different ethnic groups: we must emphasise cultural competence and encourage cultural pluralism; we must demand cultural emancipation in education.
The most important thing to note is that multiculturalism tends to conceptualise racism as an expression of an individual's negative attitude or prejudice which is directed against another individual or a group of individuals on the basis of their physical or cultural characteristics. This individualised view of racism is significant but inadequate because that view holds that racists are the few so-called rotten apples in society. However, if we are to account for how people come to hold racist attitudes, if we are to understand how groups in society interact and if we are to acknowledge inferential racism, that is the assumptions that pass for common sense - we must grasp the concept of institutional racism. Racism is not limited to individuals but can underlie public discourses, policies and organisational structures such as the judiciary, the Parliament, the bureaucracy and schools. It has been argued that certain provisions of the Summary Offences Act are examples of institutionalised racism since they entrench, amongst other things, certain cultural ideas about what constitutes public and private space. Only this morning I received a letter from parishioners of St Vincent Catholic church in Redfern. That letter accompanied a petition which has 119 signatures. The letter speaks about institutional racism as follows:
. . . the very same in essence and in potential as what brought about the extermination of 6 million jews. In this fiftieth anniversary year of the Holocaust, let us honestly recognise elements here which are genetically related. What we have here is not just a set of attitudes faithfully reflecting those of society at large . . . we have a predominantly male system with a force capacity far exceeding the sum total of its members, and who perpetuate themselves. It is a closed system with its own private language and has the power to initiate and control members' attitudes. It condones jealously a smelting process whereby existing poisons are distilled and transformed . . . into more virulent and lethal forms.
That letter is important. If we are to understand this, we understand how racism tends to manifests itself in different forms over time. Recently writers have been pointing to the existence of new racism or racism that hides behind concepts of nationhood and patriotism. It tries to present the idea of an alleged unified cultural community with a minority culture proving a threat to social cohesion. For example, Professor Blainey, in arguing against so-called excessive levels of Asian immigration in Australia, was saying that Asians could not assimilate because of the cultural and physical differences between them and us. According to Professor Blainey they were too great to allow for assimilation. In other words, what he was really suggesting was that it is natural to feel hostility to alien groups. It has been pointed out that whilst proponents of new racism are broadly committed to an unprejudiced society they accommodate ideological beliefs that are based on racist assumptions and make statements such as "I am not prejudiced but . . ." or "some of my best friends are Aborigines or Asians or Jews but . . .". People hear such statements every day of the week. In 1967 Aborigines were given the right to vote and were counted in the census. However, there remains much
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institutionalised racism. Aborigines have the highest infant mortality rate, the worst health profile, the lowest educational outcomes and they are vastly overrepresented in the justice system. The Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody painted a bleak picture but as Sydney Morning Herald columnist Richard Glover, put it in an article on 6th March the most painful fact it made Australia face was this:
. . . these (mostly) young black men weren't being murdered by some fat thug of a bush copper; they were being murdered by us. Their lives were so grim - their imprisonments so enraging - that suicide became their best option.
Similarly, we should not merely be making scapegoats of the police officers caught by video cameras over the past few weeks. As Glover points out later in the same article:
What was most remarkable about `Cop It Sweet' was that the police knew they were being filmed, and yet still behaved in this way. There's only one explanation for that: they thought that this was acceptable behaviour; they thought it was the norm.
Even after all this time we have not been able to effect a reconciliation with Aborigines. There is not even bipartisan support. According to a survey published in today's Sydney Morning Herald, still only 65 per cent of those responding supported a treaty in principle and there are large differences of opinion between rural and urban people. There has been some improvement over the years but as we approach the United Nations Year of Indigenous People there is still much more to be done. What can we do? We must open up debate to challenge the authority and ideas of narrow groups. Facts must be disseminated to dispel myths. We should monitor and challenge the media when necessary as well as improve media access for ethnic groups. We must also work to improve laws: amending laws which institutionalise racism, tightening up the Racial Discrimination Act, and working towards national laws to prohibit incitement to racial hatred and racist defamation.
Policing procedures should also be improved, particularly those that relate to Aboriginal communities. In order to combat racism in the workplace equal employment opportunities principles can provide the basis for assessing job opportunities and power structures. We can also act against racism through education in terms of what is taught, who is taught, and who is teaching, and by promoting a social ethos conducive to racial harmony. In conclusion, I believe we should note the results of Mr Saulwick's poll published in today's newspaper. He said that most people who do not like the results of the survey attack the survey itself, shooting the messenger rather than dealing with the message. I believe we have to deal with the message implicit in the surveys. Whether we like to admit it or not, they show that there is still a large racist element in Australian society and it is our duty to combat it.
The Hon. I. M. MACDONALD [3.34]: I listened with interest to the contribution of the Minister for Police and Emergency Services to this debate. I think that he feels constantly embattled on this issue. On a number of occasions over the past two or three years very disturbing instances have been extensively raised by members in this Parliament. I refer to the shooting of David Gundy and other matters relating to racism in the police force. In my view it is not good enough that the Minister constantly seeks to apologise for these behaviours by referring to the number of officers in the police force and saying that the police are representative of the community. It is not good enough that because there is racism in the community the Minister is not shocked, alarmed or dismayed when actions of the police force display racism. Members of the police force are in a special position. They are not ordinary members of the community.
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Authority is vested in them to act lawfully and to treat members of the community lawfully. The Minister would agree that they should act scrupulously in all instances. Yet we have seen a number of examples of this not being the case.
In my time on the Select Committee upon Means of Improving the Police Positional Promotion System the Hon. R. T. M. Bull and I visited police stations in western Sydney. We were concerned at and disturbed by what we saw. At major police stations such as Cabramatta and Mount Druitt we saw many young officers working in overcrowded and appalling conditions handling major issues, often racially linked. We saw that there was a need for new measures, particularly in training and promotions. No action has been taken on the committee's recommendations on these matters. Like most members of this Parliament I was embarrassed - I think Australia was embarrassed - by the actions of New South Wales police as demonstrated in "Cop It Sweet" and in the film of an alleged party in 1989. They are terrible examples. The other day we learned that police in another State have comedians at their functions who make racist jokes denigrating the Aboriginal people. This is unacceptable behaviour in the police force. It is about time that the Minister did something real about it. It was pointed out in an article by Malcolm Brown and Tom Burton that following the screening of "Cop It Sweet" the police academy was "ruled off bounds to the media as police headquarters tried to control the controversy that has arisen from the documentary". They assert in the Sydney Morning Herald that there was a campaign to try to limit the damage from these instances.
Why were the police not more open and why did they not allow people at the academy to freely discuss the issues? It is up to the Minister to answer the assertion that police headquarters effectively ruled the academy out of bounds. The Hon. R. D. Dyer has pointed out that the number of resignations over the past four years has caused a shortage of experienced police officers and supervisors to look after the young police. That is also the conclusion of the Sydney Morning Herald in relation to this issue. In about 1989 we passed a racial vilification bill, which I spoke to. I think the Minister introduced it. It was a good bill but it has not tackled the issues that are being raised today. We saw overseas film footage of Los Angeles police whipping and belting a black in Los Angeles. That created such enormous embarrassment for the Los Angeles police force that the police commissioner was forced out of office. The police in Los Angeles are trying to tackle these problems; where are they being tackled here? The Police Association announced that it would set up a task force to look into the matter and that it would try to get a couple of the 31 or 32 community police to participate.
This problem can be traced back to the Government and the leadership of the Police Service. They have a duty to act in an endeavour to reduce this problem. I do not believe that the Minister has acted sufficiently strongly in tackling this issue. Every time these sorts of instances arise he immediately runs for cover and says that there are 13,000 serving officers and 17,000 in the Police Service that there is bound to be some rotten eggs. It is unacceptable for the Minister to have that sort of attitude. The Minister should be ensuring that proper and adequate training programs are put in place; and he should be taking stronger action against those who engage in this sort of behaviour. Like most honourable members, I am concerned and alarmed by these shocking instances. Even the Hon. J. Samios would have to agree with that statement. Those responsible for them should be rooted out of the Police Service. It is greatly disturbing that so many of these sorts of episodes are continuing to occur. Recently an article that appeared in the Sydney Morning Herald documented a long list of problems that the Redfern community had experienced due to what it perceived to be police harassment in Redfern. For
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instance, Mr Cec Patton, in dealing with the aftermath of the television program "Cop bit Sweet", listed a large number of instances in which there appeared to be police harassment in the Redfern area. Mr Cec Patton is reported as follows:
. . . police had been seen walking around The Block - the Aboriginal housing area bounded by Eveleigh Street, Hugo Street, Caroline Street and Louis Street as often as once every half hour.
This was in addition to the regular police surveillance from the few derelict houses in the area that are not owned by the Aboriginal Housing Community.
He claimed that during one of the recent murder investigations, several senior officers threatened Aborigines with a repeat of the raid in February 1990 -
The Minister has probably forgotten about that:
- in which 135 police swooped on 10 houses in The Block armed with guns and sledge-hammers.
"A lot of people left after those raids" Mr Patton said.
"They were just too terrified to stay."
"It's all part of their plan to get us out of Redfern . . . the Government wants to turn it into a new metro centre."
I am not sure whether those comments are necessarily absolutely accurate. However, they demonstrate totally that the Aboriginal community of Redfern believe that it is under siege from a police force that is meant to be protecting it; and that is a serious issue. This is a serious issue that has been raised by a leading member of the Aboriginal community who is saying that the Aboriginal community feels that it is under siege from the Police Service of New South Wales. It is quite clear that something must be done to address that matter. It must be addressed not only by the appointment of Aboriginal liaison officers but by the establishment of a whole range of programs across the Police Service that make it clear that the racist behaviour that has been demonstrated in the sorts of instances that have been detailed cannot be repeated, then finally start to effect a change in attitude. It is not good that the police force of this State should condone such action. I hope that the Minister, rather than remaining silent takes strong and effective action in an attempt to address these matters. What is needed is proper and effective training in the police force and with 500 recruits being trained each year, a constant review of that training. These instances are too frequent for it to be perceived that a problem does not exist. There is a problem, and it is the Minister's responsibility to do something about it. It is about time that he adopted a hands-on approach in an attempt to limit racism in the Police Service. [Time expired.]
The Hon. E. M. OBEID [3.44]: I commence my contribution to this discussion by saying that all of us who have come to this country as migrants, especially those of non-Anglo-Celtic background, have at one time or another witnessed some form of discrimination or racism. I am proud to say that I came here as a child. I have been in the school playground as a child. I have felt and witnessed the barbs and the name-calling; I have lived through that. I can honestly say that we have come a long way since I was a child in the 1950s. I can honestly say that regardless of who is in government, from the Wran Government to the Greiner Government, we have all made a strong contribution towards ridding society of racism and anti-discrimination. Now legislation is in place that deals with these issues. When 100,000 people from so many different cultures are brought into our country each year from all parts of the world, there is bound
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to be some local reaction. It is understandable that the local community will not understand newcomers who do not adopt quickly to the local ways.
I have watched and felt what has occurred in Australia since the 1950s and we can be proud of this country. We can be proud of the fact that ours is probably one of the most tolerant nations on earth. That is not to say that there will not still be barbs and that people will not still be called names such as "slant eyes" or whatever; that will still continue. The average person in the street can be very understanding if such a breach is committed, but there is no room for people in positions of authority, those in the legal fraternity, politicians and decision-makers of our country and nation not to have an understanding of the background and the culture of people from other countries. I wish to refer to a number of instances of people being hurt and stereotyped by such lack of understanding. There are bound to be a few rotten eggs in the police force. The majority of police officers do a very good job, and they do try to be understanding. It is unforgivable that Tony Day, the President of the Police Association, should make the sort of comments that he did on national television. He acknowledged that he was a racist and he spoke in particular against Aborigines and Arabs. He should be carpeted for making those statements. It provides a very bad example for our younger police officers.
The Hon. E. P. Pickering: It did not help.
The Hon. E. M. OBEID: It does not help the community. It does not help Aborigines or Arabic-speaking people to perceive the police as being even-handed when the President of the Police Association says these things on national television. In 1982 in a case involving a young Lebanese who carried a knife in the commission of a crime, a judge said openly, without qualifications, that if it was a Lebanese habit to carry knives we must get rid of it. The habit of carrying knives is not restricted to people of Lebanese extraction. If the judge had checked his facts, he would have found that Lebanese people do not carry knives. Yet every young person of Lebanese extraction on the factory floor, in the office and in the schoolyard was hurt and offended by those remarks. The barbs were there because a person in a position of authority reinforced a community stereotype. Another example was the Strathfield massacre. Before the police got their facts straight - and the Minister knows about this - they wrongly nominated a person of Lebanese origin as having committed the massacre. That opinion was published in the media, and I can assure honourable members that everyone in the Lebanese community was offended and horrified by the thought that anyone from their country of birth would commit such a terrible deed. That action by the police was irresponsible.
On occasions police officers have walked into the Lakemba mosque to attempt to resolve a dispute. They have not known the religious importance of taking one's shoes off when entering a mosque, a place of prayer. The police have walked into the mosque with boots on and the people responsible for the care of the mosque have had to uplift the carpet because it is sacrilegious for anyone to walk into the mosque wearing boots. That demonstrates a lack of understanding. Whether it is members of the police force, the judiciary or politicians, we must learn to understand each other and respect each other's cultural traditions. We live in a multicultural society. At one end of the scale we encourage the people of this nation to learn other languages and to preserve their own cultures. At the other end of the scale, we do not try to be more understanding and respectful of people from other cultures. I am greatly concerned by the use of the word "ethnic". The use of that word amounts to a form of discrimination.
The Hon. Franca Arena: We are all ethnics.
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The Hon. E. M. OBEID: We are all ethnic, but the word "ethnic" is used only in relation to non-Anglo-Celtic people. It is not used in relation to those who come from the British Isles. I often wonder when one stops being an ethnic. How long does one have to reside in this country before one is referred to as an Australian?
The Hon. D. J. Gay: One could become a republican.
The Hon. E. M. OBEID: That would not be a bad gesture. In itself the word "ethnic" is discriminatory. It should not exist because it differentiates between one Australian and the other. We are all Australians. Some of us have been here longer than others. Some of us are still learning the ways of Australia. The use of the word "ethnic" is divisive. I have noticed that a dangerous precedent is being set in the schoolyards of some of our most important private schools where parents pay a fortune to have their children educated. Children still refer to each other as Lebanese, Greek, Italian, Yugoslav or Serbian. These children are not new migrants. They are young children of school age. They are probably second-generation or third-generation Australians. For this to continue in schoolyards when we do not recognise that we are all Australians regardless of the country of origin of our parents -
The Hon. Franca Arena: The honourable member's paper is called Lebanese Australian. He recognises that he has a dual ethnicity.
The Hon. E. M. OBEID: I prefer to say that my children are Australian. It is as simple as that. My parents may have come from Lebanon, their origins may have been in Lebanon and their citizenship may be Lebanese, but my citizenship is Australian. I carry an Australian passport. I am no different from any person who comes from Britain, Scotland, Ireland or anywhere else. We are all Australian. The use of the word "ethnic" must be addressed. There will always be barbs and racial incidents will always be highlighted. But the community has matured -
The Hon. Franca Arena: But there are still problems.
The Hon. E. M. OBEID: Of course there are problems, but bigger issues are at stake. There will always be problems when people from diversified cultures come together. By speaking openly about it, the Government and the Opposition must work to eliminate any form of discrimination or racism. We have come a long way, but in the future the most important thing will be to eliminate the use of the word "ethnic".
The Hon. J. M. SAMIOS [3.54]: I am indeed happy to speak to this motion on racist attitudes in the community. I do so in the knowledge that the Greiner Government achieved an historic first in Australia with the passage in 1989 of the racial vilification amendment to the Anti-Discrimination Act which dealt with such matters.
The Hon. Franca Arena: It was introduced by the Labor Government.
The Hon. J. M. SAMIOS: I acknowledge what the Hon. Franca Arena says. The Unsworth Government introduced a bill which attempted to deal with this issue. However, the bill was introduced about three months prior to the election which resulted in the electorate sweeping the Greiner Government into office. The bill was merely tabled and not proceeded with. I do not think the Hon. Franca Arena would disagree with that.
The Hon. Franca Arena: For community consultation.
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The Hon. J. M. SAMIOS: Yes, to seek community consultation. There is a difference in introducing and actually passing legislation. The legislation was an historic first. I should also thank the Opposition for its support in the passage of the legislation and, indeed, the Hon. Franca Arena who gave the legislation specific support. The legislation, which emphasises conciliation and education, also provides for complaints to be dealt with by the Equal Opportunity Tribunal and for criminal prosecution for offences of serious racial vilification. The Government probably showed the greatest initiative in regard to the prosecution of serious acts of racial vilification, which is dealt with in section 20D. The reality is that the educational process and attempts at conciliation alone will not be effective unless those who would vilify know that at the end of the line there is recourse to prosecution should they not accept the mediation of other parties. The legislation was passed with the knowledge that although governments had to provide for the right of free speech, that right had to be balanced with the right to a dignified and peaceful existence free from racial harassment and vilification.
That concept is on all fours with Article 19 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights. Social tensions created by racist attitudes have been with us since the arrival of the First Fleet. They were there in 1859 when, as a result of increased Chinese migration, the Victorian Parliament passed the first Australian Act restricting immigration. In that instance it was restricted to one Chinese for every 10 tons of a ship's carrying capacity. That measure failed because the Chinese simply landed in other colonies. Such measures foreshadowed the Lambing Flats riots of 1861. Social tensions again surfaced in 1880 when Sir Henry Parkes, commenting on increased Irish immigration, said he wanted to maintain the existing proportion of Irish in New South Wales to ensure that English people and their descendants remained in the majority. In 1904 the royal commission on the migration of non-British labour, after examining whether there had been a preference in the hiring of non-British miners, found that there had definitely been a preference for Italians. In 1925 a royal commission reported on the social and economic effect of the increase in the number of aliens in north Queensland, who were mainly Italian. More recently, with the doubling of Australia's population in about the last 40 years -
The PRESIDENT: Order! Pursuant to sessional orders, business is interrupted for the taking of questions.
QUESTIONS WITHOUT NOTICE
______
QUIT FOR LIFE POSTER AT NORTH SYDNEY OVAL
The Hon. M. R. EGAN: My question is directed to the Minister for Health and Community Services. Why was the Quit for Life poster of the Department of Health not displayed at North Sydney oval last Saturday? Was the Minister or his department responsible for this capitulation to the tobacco lobby?
The Hon. J. P. HANNAFORD: I am pleased that the Leader of the Opposition reads the newspaper and that he is able to correctly identify what should be the first question today, based upon the advice conveyed by the newspapers. Obviously, however, the Leader of the Opposition does not bother to listen to the radio or watch the television, because if he did he would have heard the deputy director-general of the department deal with this matter in some detail. I am pleased that the honourable member has raised the issue of health promotion because it is a very important issue. In fact, so much so that the department has this year budgeted for in excess of $21 million to be spent across the
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State on health promotion matters.
The Hon. M. R. Egan: Why was the poster not displayed at North Sydney oval on Saturday?
The Hon. J. P. HANNAFORD: If the honourable member will listen, he will acknowledge the opportunity that he has given me. This issue has given the Government an opportunity to highlight the health promotion activities of the department. It gives the Government some opportunity to acknowledge that health promotion is a very important part of the department's program of reducing illnesses within the State. This year the Government is pursuing three major programs. One was the Me No Fry program which honourable members will recall was given a very high profile over the summer period. Another program is the Quit for Life program, in relation to which the Government is undertaking major promotional activities; and also a nutrition program. Had the honourable member taken an interest in the issue of health promotion and nutrition - which I believe he does not - he would be aware that, recently, the Government launched a high profile fruit consumption program, and a high profile vegetable consumption program has also been arranged. Had the honourable member taken any notice of what occurred over the weekend - as I know he would not have done - he would know that on Saturday the Government had arranged a major fruit consumption promotion as part of the nutrition program.
The Hon. M. R. Egan: There was a press release in the Minister's name.
The Hon. J. P. HANNAFORD: I will deal with that matter. If the Leader of the Opposition wants an answer, he should listen to the answer; if he does not, he should do as his colleagues sometimes do: issue a press release concerning something unrelated to what has taken place in question time. Last Sunday's sponsorship was organised some time ago. It was a promotion entitled "Fruit - there's nothing like the original". Honourable members will be aware that that is the basis of a high profile television and media promotion being undertaken at the present time. My department had organised not only a large number of departmental staff to be at the North Sydney oval last Saturday, but also a number of children from the Tea Gardens Primary School to participate in this.
The Hon. M. R. Egan: What about the press release organised for you?
The Hon. J. P. HANNAFORD: Let us deal with one issue at a time. The Leader of the Opposition asked about Saturday. We will deal with Saturday. On Saturday a fruit nutrition program was organised. For some reason or other, an instruction was given - from an officer within the department, but not one of the directors - for the erection of a sign totally unrelated to Saturday's health promotion program. As the director-general indicated, he had never been apprised of any promotion on Saturday, other than the fruit nutrition program. A draft press release was prepared for a subsequent promotion. That release was apparently being canvassed with the North Sydney club organisers, and was released by someone. It was a draft press release which was never forwarded to senior officers within the department; nor had it been approved by my office. The Quit for Life promotion was never approved for North Sydney oval. It was not part of last year's program and has not been approved for part of this year's program. It is a matter that was being considered by officers within the health promotion division of the department, but it had not gone beyond that particular division.
Whether or not the program is brought to me by the department is a matter to be considered by the department, and by me if it is brought to me by the department.
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The Government has a three-year sponsorship relationship with the North Sydney Bears, and this is the second year of the program. As part of that program, the Government buys advertising space during the course of football matches at North Sydney oval. I am pleased to note also that from time to time members of that football team participate in health promotion programs being launched by the department. Last year, for instance, at a school in Ultimo I launched a program aimed at discouraging smoking among children in which the captain of the Bears participated together with members of the Sydney Kings.
The Hon. M. R. Egan: Why did you not have the guts to put up a Quit for Life poster at North Sydney oval?
The Hon. J. P. HANNAFORD: The Leader of the Opposition asked that question. As I indicated, it is a matter for the department in consultation with the club. In respect of that particular part of the program, there had never been such consultation. Until there is such consultation on particular programs and the department makes a decision as to what will be its sponsorship, it is not for me to intervene.
QUEENSLAND-NEW SOUTH WALES ELECTRICITY GRID
The Hon. R. T. M. BULL: I address my question to the Minister for Planning and Minister for Energy. Will the Minister inform the House what progress is being made with the Queensland Government concerning the electricity grid connection with New South Wales?
The Hon. R. J. WEBSTER: As honourable members will be aware, our Premier and the Premier of Queensland announced last November that they had agreed on a feasibility study into interconnecting the electricity grids of the two States. Honourable members should be in no doubt that this is a major step forward in interstate co-operation. It has major implications in terms of saving money, boosting efficiency and in helping the environment. It is important to the ambitions of all governments, State and Federal, in promoting a national electricity grid. An interconnected electricity system, bound by the rules as proposed by the National Grid Management Council's draft protocol on grid management, will be a major step forward in microeconomic reform. It can lead to the deferment of new generating plant; and honourable members should be aware that a major new power station can cost more than $2 billion. It should lead to true competition in the generation of electricity, which means requirements for new power stations will be subject to market forces between States, between fuel sources and between private and public generators.
Lower electricity prices are vital to the national well-being, and important in the encouragement of new industries. Interconnection with Queensland would mean new transmission line and substation works capable of adequately meeting the electricity transfer requirements of a truly national grid. Pacific Power has begun its initial studies for an interconnection. A range of options involving up to 800 kilometres of transmission line for the interconnection are under examination. I give the House my assurance that Pacific Power will consult closely with the public as the options for the interconnection are developed. The process will mean that the options are canvassed thoroughly before any final route decisions are made. Clearly, some difficult decisions need to be made, and Pacific Power is working to have a preliminary feasibility study prepared by May. Let there be no doubt that this is a project of major national significance. Its initial cost could be as much as $300 million, but the benefits that will flow from fewer power
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stations, increased competition and a truly national grid will be well worth it.
It appears that the Prime Minister, Mr Keating, and the Premier, Mr Greiner, are at one on this issue. If there is to be any opposition to the concept of a national electricity grid, it will come from the beleaguered Victorian Government, which is entering into a somewhat farcical arrangement with a private sector buyer to finance its folly in the Loy Yang power station. That Government may find itself in the embarrassing position of having to reduce power prices at some point in the future from the level at which it negotiated contracts, which will be a continuing drain on the Victorian taxpayers, as were the Victorian Government's follies in the past few years. I am sure all members on the Government benches will agree that it is imperative that Opposition members do not have the opportunity to do the same sort of vandalistic damage to New South Wales as was done by their colleagues in Victoria.
PSYCHOTROPIC DRUG ADMINISTRATION
The Hon. ELISABETH KIRKBY: My question without notice is directed to the Minister for Health and Community Services. Will the Minister confirm that on 16th November, 1991, he wrote me a letter about the administration of psychotropic drugs to people with disabilities living in institutions? Will the Minister now inform the House whether the following proposals have been implemented: consideration of the appointment of associate professors in two of the State's medical schools; and consideration being given to the feasibility of establishing an academic centre for research and training in developmental disability? Has the Minister been able to make any progress in this matter, and if not why not?
The Hon. J. P. HANNAFORD: I do not recall the actual contents of the letter of 6th November, but I do know the issue to which the honourable member adverts. The issue is of some concern to me, particularly as it was drawn to my attention during certain meetings with members of the New South Wales Council of Intellectual Disability. I recall that the council sent a circular letter to all members asking them to support me in my efforts to overcome this particular problem. A working party was established comprising Dr Ryan, the medical adviser to the Department of Community Services, and Dr Noel Wilton, the director of Mental Health Services within the department, to review the approach that should be taken to the issue of psychotropic drugs and put forward proposals on what can be done. Considerable work has been done by the working party. Recently I was given a preliminary proposal which I have reviewed and about which I asked for more information.
The department has taken a number of initiatives to overcome the extent to which psychotropic drugs are being used. Recently I became aware of the high usage of such drugs at the Strathallen centre, in Kenmore, Goulburn. The department commissioned a psychologist to embark upon a program of reducing the drug usage at that centre. As a result, the usage of drugs at the centre is now half of the level of the next highest drug usage in the State. I have forgotten the nature of the descriptor used, but I remember a figure of about 125 units as the level of drug usage per patient now being allocated. I was most concerned to find that in some centres the level of drug usage was as high as 400 of those equivalent units. Part of the problem is the inability to get suitably qualified medical practitioners to work with the professional staff to assess patients individually and to reduce the amount of drugs being taken.
I have asked the department to examine ways and means of assessing the
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individual needs of patients and to put in place proper monitoring and review procedures to assess patients' reaction to drug withdrawal. The department has proposed the establishment of a chair on this subject at one of the universities. I have said informally that though I support that approach I have to find the several hundred thousand dollars necessary to fund such a chair and I do not have those resources within my present budget. It has been suggested that the chair could be funded from the savings that will accrue from the reduction of drug usage. That proposal will be examined. It is my desire to establish such a chair so that more doctors will have a better understanding of the drug dosages and the use of drugs when dealing with patients with disabilities.
ST VINCENT'S HOSPITAL
The Hon. B. H. VAUGHAN: I direct my question without notice to the Minister for Health and Community Services. Has the Minister entered into negotiations with St Vincent's Public Hospital with a view to that hospital moving to the western or southwestern suburbs of Sydney?
The Hon. J. P. HANNAFORD: I understand that an announcement about this matter is to be made by St Vincent's hospital medical executive, Sister Maria Cunningham and Mr Jim Dominguez, as to its long-term intentions. Recently I met the executive of the Catholic Hospitals Association and during the course of discussions the board of St Vincent's hospital indicated its support of the Government's efforts to pursue different approaches to achieve finance for investment in public hospitals. The board indicated its support for the efforts the Government was making to achieve private investment in a public facility at Port Macquarie; to expedite the provision of public health facilities by using different financing approaches to achieve that aim. I understand that St Vincent's Hospital is interested in establishing an additional campus, thereby keeping the hospital and its services where they are. We will consider an additional campus so that the special services identified with St Vincent's Hospital can be provided elsewhere and there can be developed an appropriate network. That is an initiative of St Vincent's Hospital. I have indicated that if such a proposal is put we will look at working with St Vincent's Hospital in order to achieve such a result. The board indicated that it was its desire to move to western Sydney to be able to assist the Government in addressing the health needs of that region. If this were to occur, it would be welcomed certainly by every member of the House because there is absolutely no doubt that the outstanding quality of services and care provided by St Vincent's Hospital would be welcomed by people in western Sydney. As I indicated, it is an initiative of the St Vincent's Hospital board and one that is still being considered by its executive. I expect that the board will make an announcement at an appropriate time.
SCHOOLS INTERACTIVE VIDEO TECHNOLOGY
The Hon. D. F. MOPPETT: My question without notice is to the Minister for School Education and Youth Affairs. The Premier announced yesterday a plan to link all schools by interactive video technology by the year 2000. Will the Minister explain what this is? How will this initiative work? How will New South Wales schools, particularly rural schools, benefit from this initiative?
The Hon. VIRGINIA CHADWICK: It is true that the Premier made an announcement yesterday that it is our aim to link schools, through interactive technology, not just to assist schools in rural New South Wales but to be able to provide quality material; to show the best exemplary practice of teaching and hence improve standards of teaching; and to provide access to choice of subjects for all children in schools
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throughout New South Wales. Given the particular interest of the Hon. D. F. Moppett in rural New South Wales, it is fair for him to look to the importance of technology in rural New South Wales. I hasten to add that the use of technology in our schools can benefit all students. One area in which technology is particularly relevant is the study of languages. Honourable members would have noted that the Premier yesterday also highlighted his interest in the Government's commitment to furthering the study of languages, and particularly Asian languages. Some of those languages - Russian, Korean and Chinese, for example - are not areas of current popular study across New South Wales. Therefore, we do not have the professional teachers, resources or infrastructure to be able to translate immediately that vision into a reality.
Technology will provide us not only with a mechanism to make a very important inroad into that area but also the capacity to provide quality material and lessons, sometimes via technology. We are aiming at broadening choice in the number of subjects on offer and raising standards. It is a high aim; indeed, we want our standards to be world-class. Technology will provide us with one mechanism to do so. It is fair to ask whether we have set ourselves a realistic aim. I am pleased to say that yesterday the Premier publicly committed about $5 million to the specific area of interactive technology; indeed, he recognised that to link all schools and all technical and further education systems over a period will necessitate the investment by the public education system of schools and technical and further education colleges above what we are already contributing in the order of $30 million. We are looking at a significant investment. If one looks at what we have already achieved since 1988, one could say that we have set ourselves a realistic objective.
The honourable member - indeed, many other honourable members and particularly those from rural New South Wales - is well aware of the advances we have made in linking a number of our country high schools. This has brought real choice to children in country New South Wales. Whether that happens to be through cluster developments within existing schools or the use of technology in distance education, significant inroads have been made. One should visit some of the schools where funds have been injected to look at the use of computer technology in providing choices in the areas of arts and industrial design. The use of technology in our schools has gone way beyond the simple use of computers and word processors. We have made a significant investment. There will be further investment in this area. The aim is not just to improve choice and access, important though they may be, but also to allow us to take the best practice and materials to all students so that our standards can be world-class.
DEPARTMENT OF COMMUNITY SERVICES GRANTS PROGRAM
The Hon. R. D. DYER: I ask the Minister for Health and Community Services a question without notice. Did a consultative meeting occur with affected groups regarding the Department of Community Services grants program earlier this year, and were proposals for changes to the program outlined at the meeting of the department's Deputy Director-General, Mr David Marchant? What are the funding implications of proposed changes to the program, and is it the Government's intention to impose funding cuts of some $30 million this financial year?
The Hon. J. P. HANNAFORD: The answer to the last part of the question is, no-and I say that emphatically. As to the first part of the question, there has been an ongoing review, as the honourable member would know, of the community services grants program. I have indicated to the House that one of the first steps that need to be taken is to address needs-based funding. A report is being prepared on how to identify
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needs in particular areas. That report is nearing finalisation. It seeks to develop a formula by which needs of particular areas can be assessed. The report will be put out so as to pursue public debate on the proper benchmarks that should be used in assessing community need for financial assistance in various groups. We will then look at a finalisation of that document so that the community can be advised of how best to assess community need with a view to allocating funds to a geographic area for the various programs pursued. Following that there will be a need to look at the way in which funds will be allocated to particular community groups in order to address the identified need. Obviously, that is a separate issue that will be dealt with under a separate additional program.
The Government makes a major contribution to community service organisations in the State. It has allocated some $41.2 million in the past year in order to provide assistance to community groups throughout the State. The most significant proportion, about $10.5 million, provides assistance for families in stress and crisis. The next most significant amount, about $7 million, assists disabilities groups within the State. The Government's major and ongoing commitment to funding community organisations has been acknowledged by leading community groups and charities. Those charities have congratulated the Government on its approach to funding community organisations and in particular last budget's allocation of a $10 million recession package. Recently major organisations, together with the New South Wales Council of Social Services, met the Premier and seven other Ministers to discuss the needs of community organisations. Those major organisations told the Premier and Ministers that was the first time to their knowledge that any State government had met all the organisations in that way. It was the first time that all Ministers responsible for human services delivery had sat down with all these groups to discuss their needs. For the first time NCOSS had been brought in with such groups, and that level of consultation was welcomed by those organisations.
That is another illustration during a recession of the Government's commitment in community service to consult with groups, to seek to recognise their needs and to meet those needs. In the last Budget the Government allocated $10 million to community groups in New South Wales to assist people in need. Of that amount $2 million was a cash grants program. The Government's commitment to providing assistance to community groups to meet community needs may be compared directly with the commitment of the Federal Government. In the One Nation statement the Federal Government announced the allocation of $5 million to provide assistance to the whole of Australia. What is the Labor Party's level of commitment to people in need through work done by community organisations?
The Hon. R. D. Dyer: Last year you underspent by $62 million.
The Hon. J. P. HANNAFORD: The honourable member knows that is fundamental garbage. After the budget was delivered the honourable member brought in a document so phoney that even members of the press gallery were not prepared to run with it.
The Hon. R. D. Dyer: You gave that figure in the estimates.
The Hon. J. P. HANNAFORD: That paper, which the honourable member could not read properly, was out of a document circulated by the department. The honourable member peddled completely wrong figures. All those funds were committed for expenditure and were expended.
Page 1688 OMBUDSMAN INVESTIGATION OF POLICE SERVICE INQUIRY
Reverend the Hon. F. J. NILE: My question without notice is directed to the Minister for Police and Emergency Services and Vice-President of the Executive Council. Is it a fact that the Ombudsman's office has just commenced an investigation into the actions of the New South Wales Police Service in regard to its commendable inquiries concerning the alarming incitement of illicit drug use in the University of Technology Sydney student handbook, which has now been sent to another 46 university student unions? In view of the Ombudsman's recent complaints concerning his heavy workloads and shortage of funds, how can this unnecessary investigation of the New South Wales Police Service be justified by the Ombudsman's office and staff?
The Hon. E. P. PICKERING: I have to concede I am unaware of the particular complaint alluded to by the honourable member. However, he and most honourable members would know that under the laws of this State any allegations made against police have to be the subject of a proper investigation oversighted by the Ombudsman's office. I am assuming, from the honourable member's question that someone has complained about the activities of a drug enforcement agency that properly looks at whether or not the law has been broken in the distribution of a handbook at the university which, from my reading of that document, clearly set out to encourage young people to try illicit drugs. That would seem to be a highly undesirable state of the nation. I have not received the report from the Drug Enforcement Agency about the status of that investigation. Clearly, that is not my role but I have no doubt that the Drug Enforcement Agency will do the right thing in that regard. If a complaint has been made, it will be handled in the way in which all complaints are properly investigated and reported on by the Ombudsman.
SYDNEY (KINGSFORD SMITH) AIRPORT THIRD RUNWAY
The Hon. D. J. GAY: My question without notice is directed to the Minister for Planning and Minister for Energy. Can the Minister please explain what is being done to monitor and manage the impact of the third runway's construction on Botany Bay and any small furry animals that may inhabit the bay?
The Hon. R. J. WEBSTER: Mr President, it is good to see you back so that my colleague the Hon. D. J. Gay once again is able to ask me questions. Construction of the third runway is targeted to commence in July 1992. I know that will please all honourable members, especially those who live near the flight path. The Greiner Government has been concerned to ensure that strict environmental standards are met on the construction of the runway. It is therefore suggested that an environmental management plan be prepared for its construction and operational phases. The agreement to prepare a plan was subsequently embodied in the final environmental impact statement for the runway and recommended by the Federal Department of Arts, Sport, the Environment, Tourism and Territories in its report to the Commonwealth Government. The overall aim of the plan is to protect, restore and where appropriate enhance the environmental qualities of Botany Bay. It will pay special attention to the water qualities and the aquatic and terrestrial habitats of the flora and fauna in relation to any impacts of the third runway. Today the draft of stage one of that plan goes on public exhibition.
The Hon. Franca Arena: How long will the runway take to be built?
The Hon. R. J. WEBSTER: The honourable member will have to ask her Federal colleagues - and in particular her factional leader Laurie Brereton. The management plan has been prepared by the Federal Airports Corporation in close consultation with the New South Wales Department of Planning.
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The PRESIDENT: Order! There is far too much noise during question time. Hansard must be having extraordinary difficulties in hearing members with the call.
The Hon. R. J. WEBSTER: The specific purpose of this management plan is to manage any impacts on Botany Bay arising from the construction and operation of the third runway. I must emphasise that this management plan applies only to impacts directly attributable to the runway. It does not cover past or future development. A technical working party has been established to assist the Federal Airports Corporation and the Department of Planning in the preparation of the plan. This group is made up of representatives from the Federal Airports Corporation, the Maritime Services Board, the National Parks and Wildlife Service, the departments of planning and State development, New South Wales Fisheries, the Environment Protection Authority and the Water Board. The plan is being prepared in two stages. The stage which goes on exhibition today for three weeks focuses on the pre-construction and construction phases of the runway. It establishes the standards and procedures for managing impacts associated with the runway's construction. It also assigns responsibilities for implementation, monitoring, reviewing and remediation programs. This stage needs to be finalised before construction begins in July 1992. Stage two will deal with the longer term effects associated with the operational phase of the runway.
The Hon. Franca Arena: Does it say how long it will take?
The Hon. R. J. WEBSTER: Ask Laurie Brereton. The preparation of the environmental management plan is being overseen by a management committee made up of a representative of the State Government and a representative of the Federal Airports Corporation. The exhibition of the draft plan is a requirement of the Commonwealth Government's approval of the runway. There will be a three-week exhibition period after which the plan will be finalised to enable construction to begin in July. This Government is taking responsible measures to manage the impact of the third runway on the environment of Botany Bay, and of course it will continue to do so through the construction and operational phases.
SWIMMING POOL FENCING LEGISLATION
The Hon. J. W. SHAW: I ask the Minister for Planning and Minister for Energy, representing the Minister for Local Government and Minister for Cooperatives: does the Minister acknowledge that an urgent decision is required from the Government with respect to swimming pool fencing legislation and the revisions that the Government is proposing to make to that legislation so that pool owners will know their rights and duties in the next few months? When will the Government announce a decision in this respect?
The Hon. R. J. WEBSTER: The answer to the first part of the question is, yes. The decision will be announced soon.
WESTMEAD CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL SITE ASBESTOS
The Hon. ELAINE NILE: I direct my question to the Minister for Health and Community Services. Is it a fact that James Hardie asbestos fillings have been discovered on the proposed site of the Royal Alexandra Hospital for Children at Westmead? What action is being taken to make the site perfectly safe? Will the Government make a special grant of $1.5 million to make the site safe from asbestos hazard so that the children's hospital does not have to absorb heavy unexpected site costs within its budget?
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The Hon. J. P. HANNAFORD: Asbestos has been identified on the site but I am not in a position to say whether it is from the James Hardie plant which operated in the Parramatta region. Remediation work is taking place to secure the site but there should be no long-term health concerns in the area. The honourable member can be assured that the Government is committed to the completion of the hospital as soon as possible. In order to facilitate that hospital being constructed as quickly as possible in accordance with the schedules I recently gave delegated authority to the Public Works Department to ensure that the decisions that need to be taken in relation to that hospital can be taken and taken quickly so that the hospital, which is budgeted to cost close to $300 million, will be able to be constructed in accordance with the timetable. I strongly support the project because it arose following my inquiries into health in western Sydney. As a direct result of that work the hospital board approached the Government with a view to relocating it to Westmead rather than reconstructing it at Camperdown. So I have every interest in making certain that the hospital is completed as quickly as possible and within budget. If additional funds have to be made available, the department will make them available.
The Hon. Elaine Nile: You will -
The Hon. J. P. HANNAFORD: As far as I am aware, it comes out of the Government's budget. As I said, we have several hundred million dollars committed to the project. I assume that will cover the asbestos. If not, I will let the honourable member know.
POLICE ATTENDANCE AT LIVERPOOL COUNCIL MEETING
The Hon. J. F. RYAN: My question is to the Minister for Planning and Minister for Energy, representing the Minister for Local Government and Minister for Cooperatives. Is the Minister aware that the Labor Mayor of Liverpool called police to eject a Liberal Party alderman from the council meeting last night? Is it true that the only reason that police were called was that the alderman persisted in asking the mayor a question during a party political debate which had been initiated by the mayor himself? Will the Minister undertake to make inquiries as to whether the use of police to uphold a mayoral ruling on a point of order was an appropriate use of the mayor's discretion?
The Hon. R. J. WEBSTER: We all know that the mayor of Liverpool was the man who was dudded by his boss, Bob Carr. Bob promised him the seat out there and in the end dudded him, and well honourable members opposite know it. The mayor has been acting strangely ever since. The sort of behaviour that the honourable member referred to is to be expected of the mayor but is unacceptable. I undertake to my honourable colleague that I will refer this matter to the Minister for Local Government and Minister for Cooperatives for his very strong views.
LOOK AT ME NOW HEADLAND DEMONSTRATOR PROSECUTIONS
The Hon. JAN BURNSWOODS: I refer the Minister for Police and Emergency Services and Vice-President of the Executive Council to his answer to my question on 11th March relating to the decision whether or not to proceed with charges against protesters at Look At Me Now Headland. Will he confirm that he and the police wanted the charges dropped but that the wishes of his National Party colleagues prevailed?
The Hon. E. P. PICKERING: It is obvious that the honourable member simply does not understand the operation of the law. It is outrageous to suggest for a moment that I as police Minister would have any right at law to influence the police department
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as to whether a person should be charged or not charged with an offence. The day I try to pull such a stunt I would be on the front page of the Sydney Morning Herald because the police department would put me there, and quite properly so. The day a politician tells police who will be charged there is a police state. I do not think anyone opposite wants that. Certainly nobody on this side wants it. It is a ludicrous proposition to suggest that National Party members can get to the Commissioner of Police to tell him who will or will not be charged.
The Hon. J. R. Johnson: It used to happen in Queensland.
The Hon. E. P. PICKERING: It might have happened under the Labor Government but it certainly does not happen under this Government. Let me assume for a moment that the honourable member does not understand these important matters. I give her the benefit of the doubt and accept that she acts from a position of simple ignorance. In the spirit of not wishing to compound her error I will not give the long and considered reply I might otherwise have been tempted to give.
MICALO ISLAND DEVELOPMENT
The Hon. R. S. L. JONES: I ask the Minister for Planning and Minister for Energy: is it a fact that massive disturbance to the acid sulphate soil on Micalo Island by the development which you have approved will be extremely damaging to the surrounding estuarine environment, according to scientists? Is it also true that the general manager of the New South Wales Sugar Milling Co-operative Limited wrote to you and the Premier, the Deputy Premier, the Minister for Agriculture and Rural Affairs and the Minister for the Environment on 28th February asking you not to approve this development? Were you aware of these matters when you opposed the democratically elected Maclean Shire Council and approved this development?
The Hon. R. J. WEBSTER: I become very angry when the Hon. R. S. L. Jones gets up in this House and constantly misrepresents the facts. The truth is that a commission of inquiry was called into the proposed development on Micalo Island. Evidence was given by various eminent and learned scientists, who all had differing opinions; but the consistent view that came through very clearly in that inquiry was that the development was possible. The Hon. R. S. L. Jones can hold up a piece of paper as much as he likes, but the point is that it was possible to develop that island and to deal with the very real problems of soil degradation and so on on that island and also have a development. As I said in this House last week and I will keep saying it; this Government is for jobs and for the environment and the two are not mutually exclusive. After hearing some of the drivel that is espoused in this House by the Hon. R. S. L. Jones and the rubbish that the Hon. Delcia Kite spoke tonight we may as well all go and live in a cave. The truth is that we have to work out ways to cope with these problems. It is not just a question of having this zero growth concept that the honourable member and his fellow travellers continually espouse. In that case we would never do anything. Instead of having 10 per cent unemployment we would have 50 per cent unemployment in a few years time, because there would be nothing mined, there would be nothing chopped down and there would be nothing built.
The Hon. R. S. L. Jones has deliberately set out to misrepresent the facts about Micalo Island. The truth is that we had an impartial commission of inquiry which took evidence from everybody involved in that development, from the proponents of the development right through to the Valley Watch, or whatever they call themselves, up to the environment group and everybody in between. At the end of the day they came down
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with a recommendation that the development should go ahead with at least 85 conditions. They were very onerous conditions which deal with all of the matters raised by the honourable member and a few more as well. That developer must meet those conditions in stages or the development cannot continue. To suggest that I have done anything irresponsible is absolutely wrong. We have to establish and reinforce a process for considering sensitive development in this State, otherwise we will be left behind, not only as a State but as a nation. The commission of inquiry process, which is my right under legislation, has been around in this State since 1979. Anyone would think that the various things that I have done, the State environmental policies and using ministerial powers are something new, when the truth is that Paul Landa introduced this legislation into this House back in 1979.
[Interruption]
The relevant sections of that Act that the honourable member refers to and which Premier referred to in his speech yesterday were in the Act in 1979 and have been in place ever since. All we are doing is using the power vested in the Minister to make decisions of straight and reasonable significance, because it is very clear from some very curious decisions of councils over a long period of time that some councils look at the world through a very narrow pipe with no thought for the wider implications of the decisions they might make as exponents of the "Not in my backyard" syndrome. I am not prepared to stand by and see environmentally sensitive developers not go ahead in this State because we do not have a proper process for such development. The Government is not willing to do that. That is why the Premier made the announcement yesterday. That is why I accepted the recommendation of the commission of inquiry into Micalo Island, lock, stock and barrel, as I did in relation to the commission of inquiry at Balmain and other commissions of inquiry, and why I will continue to make decisions as planning Minister, to enable jobs to be created in New South Wales, something that many members in this House have forgotten.______
The PRESIDENT: Pursuant to resolution, it being 4.55 p.m. the House will now proceed to Government House to present the Address in Reply to the Speech of Her Majesty the Queen on the opening of the session.
HER MAJESTY'S SPEECH: PRESENTATION OF ADDRESS IN REPLY
The House proceeded to Government House, there to present to the Governor their Address in Reply to the Speech Her Majesty had been pleased to make to both Houses of Parliament on opening the session.
The House having returned,
The President reported that the Address in Reply to Her Majesty's Opening Speech had been presented, and that His Excellency had been pleased to give thereto the following reply: