Full Day Hansard Transcript (Legislative Assembly, 23 October 1997, Corrected Copy)

Mr Speaker (The Hon. John Henry Murray) took the chair at 10.00 a.m.

Mr Speaker offered the Prayer.

Bill introduced and read a first time.

Mr SOURIS (Upper Hunter - Deputy Leader of the National Party) [10.01 a.m.]: I move:

That this bill be now read a second time.

Honourable members have just witnessed an extraordinary sequence of events outside Parliament House involving a group of people from Bardwell Park, Arncliffe, Bexley and associated suburbs who have come to Parliament House to exercise their democratic right to sit peacefully in the gallery and listen to a member of Parliament deliver a second reading speech on a bill that will directly affect their urban amenity and welfare, and indeed their emotions, family, investment and everything they stand for. The Carr Labor Government has declared these people to be part of a demonstration in order to prevent them from being present in the gallery to hear this speech.

I cannot believe what I saw outside Parliament House. Members of the group were placed in the embarrassing position of having to ask members of Parliament to come downstairs immediately and bring four people at a time into Parliament House as their guests. Opposition members had to go through that performance in the foyer so that the group could sit in the gallery to listen to a speech. I have not known that procedure to occur often in this place. The people in question were not violent: they had not spread out into the street, blocking the traffic. There was no reason for the police to be called. All that was needed was for the Minister for Roads to acknowledge their presence. If he does not want to do that, that is not a problem, but he could at least sit in this House and listen to the second reading speech. After all, this bill concerns one of the Government’s most significant road projects for the State of New South Wales.

Where is the Minister for Roads? He is not present in the Chamber. Was it necessary for him to send a message saying, "We have to deal with the mad lot out there in the street, these people who are a threat to democracy. I know, we will declare them black. We will put a ban on them and we will give the Opposition 15 or 20 minutes and see if they can get them in, one at a time." Well, Opposition members got them in one at a time, and the Opposition is pleased and honoured that they are present in the gallery of the Legislative Assembly of New South Wales listening to this speech, which is their democratic right. They do not appear to be posing a threat to democracy.

Mr Price: On a point of order. The practice that has been referred to is not novel. It was introduced by the former Government and has nothing to do with the Carr Government.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! No point of order is involved.

Mr SOURIS: The Australian Labor Party is absolutely desperate. It looks as though there will be a series of interjections and that points of order will be taken in an attempt to put me off my stride. I do not care how long it takes me to complete my speech. The people who have come to listen to it today will hear it. The honourable member may just as well sit there - solitary representative of the Labor Party that he is - and listen to some commonsense.

Mr E. T. Page: Your numeracy is not very good.

Mr SOURIS: Oh, the Minister for Local Government is in the Chamber. I will give members opposite another five minutes to see if they can raise a crowd. This is important because you will lose the seat of Rockdale at the very least and Labor had better take notice.

Mr E. T. Page: I am the member for Coogee. Your geography is not much good, either.

Mr SOURIS: There is no point in the Opposition showing how much it feels the pain of what Labor is doing to these people. It is fairly obvious.

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Mr E. T. Page: Why don’t you stick to the facts.

Mr SOURIS: Keep quiet! The purpose of the M5 East Motorway Bill is to restore the proposed route for the M5 East motorway to its original route, the road reservation that has been the preferred option for the past 46 years. This would ensure that residential areas on and surrounding the Carr Labor Government’s preferred route, announced by the previous Minister for Roads, The Hon. Michael Knight, were not subjected to the adverse effects of the M5 East motorway. The Government has refused to listen to the concerns of residents, many of whom feel so strongly about the issue that they are present in the public gallery today. They are welcome. Of real concern to the residents of Arncliffe, Bardwell Park, Bexley, Canterbury, Earlwood, Hurstville, Kingsgrove, Rockdale and Turrella is the Carr Labor Government’s refusal to stick to the original route proposed in the 1994 environmental impact statement that ensured that the M5 East motorway would be built in the Wolli Creek Valley on dedicated Crown land known as the Motor Transportation Reserve.

The Government’s decision in November 1996 to build the motorway through residential areas has caused undue anxiety and anger amongst local communities and has made it imperative for the future of the affected communities that the coalition’s bill is passed by this House. Many residents in the area of the motorway bought their homes secure in the knowledge that the road reservation that has existed for the past 46 years would be used for the M5 East motorway. The problems caused by the Labor Government’s proposed route for the M5 East motorway and the need to reroute the motorway to the road reservation is best summed up in a media release issued by the M5 East Community Co-ordination Group. It states:

The purpose of this "truth-in-planning" Bill is to prevent the kind of unjust disruption now being faced by these residents, who bought homes on the express basis that they would be well away from the Road Reservation but now find that the freeway is to be built right through their suburbs, and - in many cases - under their homes. These residents now face:

•having their quiet residential streets turned into a construction zone for 3 years, with dust, noise, dirt and vibration 16 hours per day

•likely cracking and moisture problems to homes caused by construction of the tunnel and consequent altering of the water table; a phenomenon which the RTA acknowledges was not considered in its EIS

•a series of "hot pipes" built under their suburbs, carrying unfiltered exhaust fumes from the tunnel to the exhaust chimney at Turrella

•loss of value of homes

•loss of peace of mind, knowing that a freeway runs under their homes.

The M5 East Community Co-ordination Group and the bill have the support of the honourable member for Rockdale, if he is true to his word and was not lying when he was reported in the Daily Telegraph of 12 February.

Mr Moss: You do not have my support.

Mr SOURIS: The honourable member for Canterbury is feeling the pain as well. I am pleased to see him in the Chamber. The article states:

Mr Thompson said that he wanted the route to go under the Wolli Creek where land has been reserved since the 1950's. "My personal stance is to support to the fullest extent their -

that is his constituents -

position to the authorities that are making the decision," Mr Thompson said.

The need for a new environmental impact statement is now urgent if the July 2000 completion date set by the current Minister for Roads is to become a reality and the very real concerns of the local communities are to be addressed. The dramatic deviations from the supplementary EIS announced by the present roads Minister and released in late 1996 have not had the desired effect of silencing opposition to the proposed route of the M5 East, and the concerns of residents need to be addressed in an open and accountable way. As to the urgent need for a new EIS, the honourable member for Canterbury has echoed my calls for a new EIS. In his recent contribution to the Address-in-Reply debate in this House he said:

An issue of great concern is the proposed chimney stack at Henderson Street, Turrella. Some argue -

the Premier and the Minister for Roads -

that an additional environmental impact statement about the chimney stack is not needed because the 1994 EIS dealt with it. The problem is that the 1994 EIS also dealt with the location of a chimney stack in Earlwood. The current proposal allows for only one stack to be located at Henderson Street, Turrella. To my way of thinking one chimney stack will have twice the amount of emissions of two chimney stacks. For that reason, I cannot understand how it can be argued that another EIS is not necessary because the Henderson Street proposal has already been dealt with. It has indeed been dealt with, but in a completely different context. I hope that a further EIS will be prepared in relation to the proposed chimney stack at Turrella, but my main concern is that the stack should be relocated.

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I hope that the honourable member for Canterbury, who has just heard his own words, will, in a very short time, vote in the appropriate fashion in support of his constituents. This matter is of such significance that the Leader of the Opposition has been involved since it became a community concern. The Leader of the Opposition has been to local residents’ places and parks and has addressed their rallies. This morning he spoke to the peaceful gathering of residents outside Parliament House and addressed many of their concerns. Perhaps the Leader of the Opposition does not know that after his peaceful discussions with the people the Labor Party pulled a stunt of declaring those people black, declaring their rally a demonstration, to impede their right to participate in the normal democratic process by sitting in the gallery to listen to my speech. It is unbelievable! The Leader of the Opposition is in the Chamber during debate on this important bill. Coalition members of Parliament were asked one at a time to sign in four of these dreadful demonstrators so that they could enter the gallery.

Mr Collins: The Labor Party is running scared.

Mr SOURIS: The Labor Party is running absolutely scared. Whilst the honourable member for Canterbury and the honourable member for Rockdale have made the right noises, I guarantee that they will not vote with the coalition and that their statements on the need to change the Government’s proposal for the M5 East motorway will be nothing but hollow rhetoric. One at a time they will deny what they have said publicly on many occasions and their comments will count for nothing. They will vote with the Government, loyal and faithful to their ALP masters forever. The decision to reduce the number of stacks from three to one massive stack has failed to alleviate community concern that a 25-metre high by 15-metre wide stack located in a residential area, spewing raw exhaust emissions containing carbon monoxide, benzine and lead into the valley will be detrimental to the local environment and to the health of residents exposed to the raw exhaust fumes. The Labor Government consistently refuses to release technical and scientific advice that it says proves once and for all that the concentrated raw exhaust emissions from four kilometres of tunnel carrying an extra 57,000 cars a day will not have an adverse effect on the health of residents living near the stack, first and foremost, and will result in the local environment becoming a no-go zone.

The exhaust stack will pump out raw exhaust emissions. Why the Government has refused to seriously investigate technology that would scrub the major pollutants from the exhaust fumes is an anomaly that must be rectified. There can be no excuses for a supposedly environmentally conscious Carr Government to pollute the environment with the concentrated exhaust emissions of more than 57,000 cars a day. The Minister for Local Government should have a little more concern for the local government areas that will be so adversely affected. He is the Minister for Local Government in name only. Watch him vote the bill down; watch him vote against the residents later. One after the other he and the members who represent the electorates where this dreadful roadway will be placed will betray their constituents and vote loyal to the core with their ALP masters.

Ms Ficarra: They think it is a safe Labor seat. Not any more.

Mr SOURIS: They do indeed think that it is a safe Labor seat. But the Opposition will remind them during the course of construction over the next two years exactly how safe it is and why they should never have taken the people of the area for granted. The hot shafts that will carry the exhaust fumes from the tunnel have the potential to leak raw exhaust emissions into the surrounding environment. But more importantly, people will be put at risk from the exhaust emissions that will leak insidiously into their homes over the life of the motorway. That is totally unacceptable to the coalition, but the Labor Government refuses to address the issue.

Mr Moss: What is your solution?

Mr SOURIS: Well might the honourable member for Canterbury ask what is the Opposition’s solution. He asked the question and he will get the answer. Go back to the 46-year road reservation promised to these people for a long time. If the honourable member does the right thing by his constituents the problem will be solved.

Mr Moss: Exhaust fumes right through Wolli Creek; an open road right through the Wolli Creek. What a wonderful alternative!

Mr SOURIS: Keep fighting the residents and they will get your measure. The location of the hot shafts containing poisonous gas remains a mystery. Where will the shafts leading from the roadway tunnel to the huge chimney be located? Under whose homes, under which roads? They will probably be about three metres square - not little tubes - and over the life of the roadway will leak poison into the surrounding soil.

Mr Rumble: Since when has the National Party been interested in the environment?

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Mr SOURIS: Since when have I been interested in the environment? I am only too pleased to respond to these interjections to ensure that such comments from the Carr Labor Government are put firmly on the record for all to see. Keep making those interjections, lads; they will all appear in Hansard and, one after the other, will come back to haunt you.

Mr Rumble: It is just like Luna Park.

Mr SOURIS: The honourable member for Illawarra is a very slow learner. Another serious implication of the Carr Government’s preferred route has been brought to my attention by lawyers acting on behalf of affected residents. A letter received from Papanicolaou and Antoniou, a law firm, puts the Government on notice that natural springs may exist in the sandstone along the Government’s preferred route and as a result 178 homes may be structurally damaged by the tunnel. The letter states:

We have been informed that should the borer cut through natural springs there is a real danger that a significant number of substantial homes which have been constructed on clay will suffer structural damage. The natural springs feed the clay soil which causes it to expand. Should the borer cut through the natural spring stopping the flow of water it will impact upon the clay causing it to dry and as a consequence shrink. This will significantly undermine the foundations.

A further problem that will arise is that if the springs are diverted or the veins damaged the water pressure will result in new veins being created and the water escaping via other routes. This of course will lead to homes suffering moisture problems which presently they do not have.

This type of damage is not limited to residences above the tunnel alignment. Residences which are a considerable distance from tunnel alignment will also be affected . . .

On present information available to us the majority of homes situated in Bardwell Road, Churchill Street, Barnsbury Grove, Stotts Avenue and Bernard Avenue have been constructed on clay.

The writer telephoned the Project Manager, Mr Mal Cross at the Roads and Traffic Authority on 16th September, 1997 and was advised that the Authority only became aware of this problem when advised by Mr Bateman.

When questioned by the St George Messenger, the Minister for Urban Affairs and Planning - another vital ingredient to this horrible mess - said that legal reasons prevented him from commenting. If this project was so sound and secure I should have thought that the Minister for Urban Affairs and Planning, the watchdog of planning in this State, would be happy to endorse it and could have expressed a measure of confidence that the Carr Labor Government was doing the right thing, but he declined to do so. After all, the Carr Labor Government is intending to ram through the project before the Olympics. Construction seems imminent. This new development makes the Government’s preferred route for the M5 East even more unpalatable for local residents. It also highlights the need for a new environmental impact statement to address this issue.

Highlighting the depths to which the Carr Labor Government has sunk to keep residents in the dark about the proposed route for the M5 East and the adverse effect it will have on the lives of residents is the case of the Asproukas family, the first residents to be offered compensation by the Carr Government as a direct result of its misleading campaign. Mrs Asproukas has publicly revealed that when she and her husband were considering purchasing a home in Churchill Street in October 1996, at the height of the speculation over the M5 East, they sought advice from the Roads and Traffic Authority on the road plan. After the RTA told them that the property would not be affected, they bought the property for $280,000. Just five days later the then Minister for Roads, Michael Knight, announced his plans for an alternative M5 route.

With final papers yet to be exchanged, Mr and Mrs Asproukas again sought RTA advice, and on 11 November 1996 were reassured in writing that the authority had no proposals that required any part of the property. The Government was still telling these people that they had nothing to worry about even after this grand announcement. The Asproukas family completed the purchase on 16 November. On 22 November 1996 they inspected maps at the RTA office and found that their home was in the path of the tunnel.

The Labor Government’s decision to reroute the road through residential areas wrought havoc on the lives of hundreds of residents who, until November 1996, believed that the motorway was to be built on the road reservation and never thought that their elected New South Wales Labor Party representatives would sell them down the river to placate the green vote. It is no wonder that, on behalf of affected residents, the Leader of the Opposition has taken such a prominent role in this significant issue. It should be of significance to the Government that the Leader of the Opposition is leading on this debate wherever possible. The Opposition has elevated this issue to a number one priority. I sincerely hope that the Labor Government will take note of those facts.

[Interruption]

I do not think that it will take notice. I am just pointing it out. The Leader of the National Party has
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entered the Chamber, which signifies the importance of this debate. The Leader of the Opposition and the Leader of the National Party are present in the Chamber to lend support to the residents living in the affected electorate. Now will they take some notice of us? Now will they hear the message? I doubt it.

Mr Collins: They will on 27 March 1999.

Mr SOURIS: On 27 March 1999 the Leader of the Opposition will extend the hand of congratulations to a genuine representative of the people who will represent the residents properly in this House.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! People in the public gallery will refrain from clapping.

Mr E. T. Page: On a point of order. The Deputy Leader of the National Party refuses to address his remarks to the Chair. People in the gallery responded as they did because the Deputy Leader of the National Party was addressing the gallery and not, as the forms of the House require, addressing the Chair. I ask you to remind him and the Leader of the Opposition of the forms of the House and to direct him to address his remarks to the Chair.

Mr Armstrong: On the point of order. The interest that the Deputy Leader of the National Party has shown in this subject has drawn one of the fullest galleries for this time of the morning for a long while. The Minister would do well to remember that the public is entitled to hear the full debate and that the Deputy Leader of the National Party is endeavouring to expand the debate in light of the fact that the Government wants to contain it, constrain it and deny the public its rights.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I uphold the point of order.

Mr SOURIS: I draw to the attention of honourable members an advertisement that appeared in the Sydney Morning Herald on 30 January. The advertisement is an open letter from the Mayor of Rockdale, Peter Bryant, to the Minister for Roads:

Dear Minister,

Our community (and the State) needs the M5 East but not at any price. The Council, and the citizens of Rockdale WILL NOT ACCEPT the proposal by the RTA to locate the M5 East in a tunnel under our homes and with health endangering pollution stacks near our children’s bedrooms.

We want to know the truth about the quality of the air from the ventilation stacks and only internationally respected standards will be accepted by our residents. Your commitment to air quality will be judged by the emissions from the Sydney Harbour Tunnel . . .

On Wednesday, 22 January 1997 the Councillors of Rockdale City Council unanimously demanded:

* That the M5 East tunnel follow the original route set aside more than 40 years ago. Why should the residents have the value of their homes plunge because the RTA now chooses to build the tunnel under their homes?

* That the health of children and the frail aged not be put at risk so the RTA can save a full dollars.

This letter is from Rockdale council, and I just hope that the honourable member for Rockdale is in his room listening to the audio broadcast. No doubt he is skulking away at this moment instead of attending the Chamber when so many of his constituents are present. The letter continued:

That any exhaust stack MUST be located in non-residential areas and exhaust gases MUST be scrubbed and filtered.

That the lives of the Citizens of Rockdale are worth more than the few lousy dollars that will be saved by this unhealthy RTA bureaucratic 3% cost saving proposal.

Minister the council and the citizens of Rockdale will not accept the current proposal. Only you can save us from this intolerable situation.

A very interesting point is made by Rockdale council about costs. We can all remember the present Minister for Roads saying, when the project was estimated to cost $520 million, that an extra $20 million, or whatever the figure was, would be required to put the tunnel completely under the Wolli Creek road reservation. He said that money did not grow on trees and asked which other road projects the Opposition was offering to cancel. The figure has now grown to $620 million according to this year’s Budget Papers, with potentially up to $80 million for compensation to acquire the homes above the road tunnel. So the total cost of the project is now around $700 million - and we really have not started construction yet.

The project has not encountered any problems, and pressure to meet the 2000 Olympic deadline has not seriously affected the construction schedule. We have not got anywhere near the final figure yet. So if it was a bit rich to spend $20 million so that the people of the area would not have to suffer all the adverse environmental impacts, I would have thought that the prospect of the cost of the project reaching $700 million and climbing would of itself be enough for the Government to reconsider the project and go back to the original budget to save local residents the unbelievable agony that they are going through.

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Pursuant to sessional orders business interrupted.

Mr SOURIS: I seek leave to move a motion to suspend standing orders to allow me to complete the remaining three pages of my speech.

Leave not granted.

Debate resumed from 7 December 1995.

Mr E. T. PAGE (Coogee - Minister for Local Government) [10.34 a.m.]: It is rather interesting how a crisis suddenly arises when people -

Mr Armstrong: On a point of order. Mr Speaker, it is good enough to play both sides. The Minister failed to address you at the start of his speech. If the Minister wants to play it hard with this side, as a Minister of the Crown he should observe the correct protocols and processes of the Parliament.

Mr E. T. PAGE: On the point of order. What the Leader of the National Party said is true: I did not use the words "Mr Speaker," but that is not required in the standing orders. What is required is that the member with the call address the Speaker. I was looking at you while I was talking, which was addressing you. So there is absolutely no substance in the point of order.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! The Minister may continue.

Mr E. T. PAGE: Mr Speaker, it is interesting that when coalition members went into opposition they suddenly found all sorts of problems about procedures and legislation that were overlooked when they were in government and could have done something about them.

Mr Armstrong: On a point of order. Mr Speaker, the matter before the House this morning has nothing to do with the processes or procedures of previous governments. Not only has the Minister of the Crown ignored your ruling; he has completely flouted it.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is no point of order.

Mr E. T. PAGE: The bill proposes that in future voters will be required to produce identification before they can cast a vote in a New South Wales State election. Presumably, this will also apply to local government elections, although that is not spelled out in the legislation. This would put our electoral system at odds with the Federal electoral system. In the past governments have aimed to make electoral systems as consistent as possible. There has been talk about scams, and not long after the Hon. Nick Greiner became Premier he asked the electoral commissioner to prepare a report on multiple voting. As usual in such situations, there was no evidence of a significant level of multiple voting.

One major reason that it appeared that people had voted twice was that an electoral clerk had made a mistake in crossing off names. The previous Premier had a shock-horror attitude about this, but what was done in the subsequent six years when the coalition was in government? Absolutely nothing. The coalition could have passed this legislation through the lower House at any time during its seven years in office, but it did not. It is not an issue and it has never been one. Now the coalition is just trying to cause problems to undermine public confidence in the electoral system. There has been reference to the electoral roll at the cemetery.

Mr Jeffery: That is where you get all your majority from.

Mr E. T. PAGE: That is your excuse why the coalition cannot knock me over in what should be a safe Liberal seat. I certainly hope the coalition continues to be so unrealistic and continues to put up appalling candidates in the eastern suburbs to knock me off. The aim of the bill is to require all voters in New South Wales to produce some form of identification prior to voting; and it prescribes a great long list of acceptable identification. This would only complicate the voting system and ensure that some people who may not be particularly well organised in their social life would forget to take their identification and would not be able to vote on election day. The bill would add a further layer of administration to the process and certainly would not guarantee electoral security. The fact that a person produces one of the prescribed forms of identification does not of itself prove that he or she is the person whose name is on the document.

The only two documents that include a photograph are a driver’s licence and a passport. The other documents have just a name or an address - sometimes not the current address - but do not
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identify the person presenting the document. A Medicare card has only a number and a name or names, but no address; it has nothing to correlate the information on the electoral role that will be crossed off by a clerk to ensure that I am indeed the Ernie Page who lives at 8 Marion Street, Coogee. This bill will cause significant and unnecessary confusion and delay for voters on polling day. Failure to produce identification will not necessarily result in a person not being able to vote, because he or she can make a declaration under section 106.

Mr O’Farrell: On a point of order. I am concerned that students of Muirfield High School are missing this debate and the hard work of their local member, the honourable member for Baulkham Hills.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is no point of order.

Mr E. T. PAGE: The students certainly have not missed much. The Government opposes this bill because it would impose unnecessary requirements that would likely cause delay and confusion. The bill is inconsistent with Federal Government legislation and the current local government system. No evidence was given in the second reading speech of a problem with multiple voting, which was highlighted in the report by the former Electoral Commissioner to Premier Greiner. The former Premier was obviously impressed by the integrity of the system at the time, because he did nothing to change it. This Government agrees with former Premier Greiner that the current system is efficient, that it has no anomalies that are worth worrying about. Therefore, no doubt with former Premier Greiner’s concurrence, the Government opposes the bill.

Mr O'FARRELL (Northcott) [10.43 a.m.]: It is interesting that the students from Muirfield High School understand something that the Minister for Local Government does not: that when they become voters their only check on members of Parliament will be a fair electoral system; and conversely that if the electoral system is not fair, and people are able to vote fraudulently, their say in the affairs of this State and this nation will be diminished. I am sure that is something the students are taught at school; it is just a pity that it is not taught in Sussex Street.

Mr E. T. Page: You did nothing for seven years, you accepted the system, you said it was all right.

Mr O’FARRELL: The point, of course, with the interjection of the Minister for Local Government is that he seems to accept that there is a problem, but his argument for not fixing it is that the former Government did nothing about it for seven years. There are many things that the coalition got wrong whilst in government, and many things that it could not get around to doing, but that is no reason to let the electoral system continue to suffer from fraud or to continue to ensure that people can vote without producing at least the sort of identification that the students from Muirfield have to produce when they rent a video from their local Video Ezy. It is pleasing that the students from Muirfield High School are in the gallery today. Muirfield high was in the electorate of Northcott when it was represented by Bruce Baird. The school now has as its local member the hardworking member for Baulkham Hills, who is a strong supporter of a decent, clean and fair electoral system.

The Minister for Local Government essentially gave three reasons why this bill should not proceed. This bill seeks to ensure that people - whether it be Barry O’Farrell, Ernie Page, Paul Gibson or Wayne Merton - who turn up to cast a vote are the persons they claim to be. Currently there is no proper check to ensure that that is the case. The Minister’s first reason was that in some way the bill would affect people who cannot get their social life together, who might be out all night and forget to bring some identification to the polling booth. The honourable member for Coffs Harbour, very sensibly, has prescribed about 15 items of proof of identification. Most honourable members would have three of them in their wallet.

Our voting system is critically important and if people cannot organise their social life to the extent of attending the polling booth once every four years with the required proof of identity, they are not taking the voting system seriously; and the entire electoral system certainly should not have to suffer as a result. The second reason was that the bill would add bureaucracy to the process. Coming from a Labor Minister, that is a bit rich. Every day in this place unnecessary regulations, rules and other devices are enacted that add to the cost and number of bureaucrats in this State. If people were whether they would prefer to see increased bureaucratisation in local government and in the various areas of State or Federal government, or in the electoral system, they would strongly support increased bureaucracy in the electoral system.

Voters know that every four years in this State and every three years federally their only check on honourable members is at the ballot box. It is important that voters have that check; otherwise
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parliaments could end up doing what the Labor Party headquarters in Sussex Street does every other day: engage in abuse of power. The third reason given by the Minister for opposing this legislation is that the proof of identity documents listed in schedule 1 to the bill are not sufficient because they do not contain photographs. Australia’s system for issuing passports is among the safest and most secure in the world. Most of the proof-of-identity documents prescribed in this bill also apply when one applies for a passport; they show a name and address, but they do not include a photograph. If that identification provides a secure passport system, surely it can also provide an honest and open voting system. Similarly, the documents prescribed in the bill are required when one opens a bank account or takes out a tax file number.

The great pity about this legislation is that it has been introduced not because of problems with the electoral system generally, or because of some idealism about the electoral system, but because the Government did not accept earlier legislation introduced by the honourable member for Coffs Harbour which, as he admitted in his second reading speech, would have been far better legislation. The only reason that legislation did not pass through this House, as you well know, Mr Speaker, is that you used your casting vote to vote against it. The Speaker used his casting vote to vote against a bill that would have ensured that people would not have to produce proof of identity on polling day, but, like when they joined the local Video Ezy store, would produce proof of identity when first enrolling to vote. That would have been far superior legislation than this bill. I acknowledge that this bill will result in some extra bureaucracy at polling booths on election day, that it will take people longer to vote.

Mr Fraser: We have got the staff there already; we can do it.

Mr O’FARRELL: In any event, that is a small price to pay. In an ideal world I certainly would prefer his earlier legislation. In the past couple of weeks the Parliament has debated legislation relating to a redistribution of seats in this House.

Mr Fraser: Tell us about the equity in that.

Mr O’FARRELL: As the honourable member for Coffs Harbour asks, many of us wonder about the equity of the legislation that has gone through both Houses to reduce the size of this House from 99 seats to 93 seats.

Dr Macdonald: It is an old Liberal tradition.

Mr O’FARRELL: I have no idea why the honourable member for Manly is attacking me. I am one of those in the Liberal Party who argue that the seat of Manly ought to be retained under the redistribution, and I will continue to do that. I want to ensure that the electorate of Manly continues to be represented in this House. In fact, I want to ensure that the electorate of Manly is better represented by having a Liberal Party or National Party member in this Parliament. The importance of a redistribution is that, among other things, it ensures that electorates in this State are of the same size. It essentially upholds the principle, which we hold dearly in our electoral process, of one vote one value. But, as I say, unless we have legislation such as the bill we are now debating, there can be no certainty at all that the votes cast will be reflected in the distribution of seats in this House.

Honourable members will recall that at the last State election 52 per cent of the electorate voted for the coalition and 48 per cent voted for Labor - fewer than two busloads of voters would have changed the election result. When it comes to 70, 100 or 140 votes, in an electorate with 38,000 voters, determining which side wins the seat, one starts to realise that the result could be influenced not by large numbers of suspicious votes, that it would not require fraud on a massive scale, that it would not require thousands, or even hundreds, of voters to misrepresent themselves. The result could be influenced by as few as 30, 40, 50 or 60 fraudulent voters. And that is not hard to do in selected seats, which will always be the major battleground of elections.

Most members have scrutineered at elections time in and time out, and I am sure they have all seen curious things. I am sure that members who worked at polling booths during The Entrance by-election - when, I am prepared to accept, the honourable member for The Entrance had a handsome victory - will agree that some pretty curious individuals turned up to vote. At one polling booth three people who had allegedly died in the previous six months came in to vote, but as soon as the Hon. J. H. Jobling challenged them they shot out quicker than the honourable member for Port Jackson shot out of the Premier’s office when she tried to get a ministry.

Fraud and the potential for it continue to exist within our electoral system. As legislators we should do all we can to ensure that we have a fair, open and honest electoral system. If we do not, we will not be honest, open and accountable to the
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electorate, we will traduce the democratic traditions from which we have benefited, and we will leave ourselves open to potential abuse. I firmly believe, as I am sure the Minister for Local Government believes, in the merits of democracy and a system that allows the community to choose the people who govern them, and the opportunity, if necessary, to throw them out. We should be doing everything we can to ensure that the voters’ will prevails.

Mr IEMMA (Hurstville) [10.56 a.m.]: This bill turns on its head a democratic tradition that this State and this country have cherished: that the right to vote at elections should be free and open, and that people should not have obstacles placed in their path in registering to vote. We have witnessed the difficulty of many minority groups in the United States who, for many decades, have faced obstacles, legislative and otherwise, in firstly getting onto the register to vote and then actually casting their vote.

It surprises me that a National Party member, adhering to National Party philosophy, would seek to obstruct individuals from casting a vote at an election. Far from upholding any democratic tradition, this legislation strikes at the heart of the basic democratic principle that people, regardless of their origins, education and background, have a basic, fundamental, human and democratic right to register and cast their vote in an election. This legislation reverses that tradition and reverses the onus that people have a right to vote. Under this legislation people have to prove that they have a right to vote. And the legislation comes from the National Party - it places an obstacle in the way.

The honourable member for Coffs Harbour said this legislation is designed in such a way that anyone wishing to cast a vote in New South Wales at a State election will be required to present proof of identity. That reverses that very basic democratic principle we have always adhered to: that people have a free and unfettered right to register to vote and then to vote. What is the basis of his concern? Has he produced evidence that our electoral system has great problems? Has he produced evidence of wide scale fraud? No, he has not. His basic premise, like that of the Opposition, is that when they look at electoral reforms they are always looking at ways of making the system more difficult for people to vote; they are always looking at making it more difficult for people to get to the ballot box. Witness the sorts of reforms that we have seen from the coalition when it has been in government. The ticks and crosses legislation is an example. That certainly did not make it easier for people to cast a vote; it made it more difficult. When the coalition was in government it brought in zonal electoral systems whereby the vote of a person living in the city was worth only half the vote of a person living in the country.

Now we have a variation of something that the honourable member for Coffs Harbour has tried before: voter ID. Once again this proposal is designed to make it more difficult to vote, because the coalition can never accept that when it is defeated in an election, that is a fair and reasonable result. No evidence of electoral fraud has been produced. In the upper House on 19 September 1995 the Hon. J. H. Jobling asked the Treasurer, the Hon. M. R. Egan, a number of questions on notice relating to electoral fraud, including irregularities in voting and multiple voting. In response, an official from the New South Wales Electoral Office provided instances of electoral fraud in New South Wales elections, particularly the 1995 election. He concluded:

No other examples were detected nor was any evidence received establishing fraudulent voting.

As the Minister said, most multiple voting resulted from clerical errors being made by polling clerks when checking the rolls. The list of multiple voting instances in marginal and sensitive seats shows that in Badgerys Creek the figure was 12; Blue Mountains, 11; Broken Hill, three; Coffs Harbour, 23; Drummoyne, 34; Gladesville, 13; in my electorate of Hurstville, 11; Kogarah, 14; Manly, 25, which is an interesting figure; Murwillumbah, six; Northcott, 22; Penrith, eight; Sutherland, 11; and The Entrance, eight. About 3.5 million votes were cast at the 1995 elections. If the incidence of multiple or scam voting is such a problem the Court of Disputed Returns can be petitioned. Persons with evidence of widespread fraudulent voting, multiple voting or ghosting voting can petition the Court of Disputed Returns.

[Interruption]

I am talking about the basis of this legislation. The Labor Party won the seat of Badgerys Creek by 103 votes. If there were 105 or 110 instances of multiple voting or of dead people suddenly voting, that would be a basis on which to petition the Court of Disputed Returns; and the judge would uphold the petition and order a new election. What evidence do members opposite have of the present system being fundamentally flawed? They have not produced any evidence. They simply want to reverse the onus so that those accused of fraudulent voting are guilty until proven innocent. They do not want people to have the right to vote until they prove their identity.

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It is not surprising that the National Party has put forward this proposal. National Party members always talk about the fact that the coalition parties received 52 per cent of the two-party preferred vote, the Labor Party received 48 per cent of the vote, and the Labor Party is in government and the National Party is not. The way to fix that - the National Party would never propose this - is simple: introduce an electoral system based on proportional representation and multimember electorates. Such a system was adopted by the Tasmanians a long time ago and by the people of the Australian Capital Territory not so long ago. The National Party would never agree to that system because under the present system it received 11 per cent of the vote and about 20 per cent of the seats. In debates on electoral reform coalition members never get to the heart of their problem, that is, that their votes are locked up in certain geographical areas in this State: National Party votes are locked up in the country and Liberal Party votes are locked up on the north shore.

The solution is to introduce a system such as the Hare-Clark system adopted in Tasmania or the Robson rotation system adopted in the Australian Capital Territory. Whilst Liberal Party members are keen to have such a system, it will never see the light of day because National Party members are not keen on it. One way to fix the system is to reform the basis upon which people vote, not to reverse the free and unfettered right of people to cast a vote. The proposal that should have been included in the bill is that the party that wins 50 per cent of the vote should get 50 per cent of the seats, not that the onus should be on people to prove their identities in order to vote. Members opposite want to disfranchise all those hippies on the north coast who do not vote for the National Party.

This bill will not make the electoral system cleaner or fairer; it will simply disfranchise a large number of people by placing in their path obstacles to a free and unfettered right to vote in elections. I refer to the elderly in particular. The National Party has a particular set against the elderly, as evidenced by its total lack of support for what this Government is trying to do to reverse the Federal nursing home policy. This bill is about reversing the longstanding, time-honoured democratic principle that people have an unfettered and free right to register to vote and to cast their vote.

Mr R. W. TURNER (Orange) [11.05 a.m.]: The honourable member for Hurstville spoke for more than 10 minutes but he said absolutely nothing. The Minister for Local Government said that winning seats by five, 10 or 100 votes is not the issue. The honourable member for Hurstville missed the point when he said that winning a seat by fewer than 100 votes is not the issue because the seat was not won by foul means. This bill relates to multiple voting - people registering more than once under various names and then casting multiple votes. The honourable member was wrong when he said that that has not happened and cannot happen. People registering to vote are not required to produce identification; to be registered they simply need to provide a name, address and occupation.

It is well-known that I send out welcome-to-the-electorate letters when people move into my electorate. The number of letters returned to me marked "Not at this address" is amazing. It shows that my electorate of Orange, like many others, has a floating population. It is easy to rort the electoral system because not enough checks are made of people who come and go. Sometimes it can take time for my welcoming letters to be returned. When they are returned, what checks are made to find out whether the person named ever lived at the given address or had simply moved on? At election time a swinging seat could effectively be won or lost by people who travel around the electorate to cast multiple votes. This is probably easier to do in the city than in the bush because of the vast distances between polling booths in regional New South Wales. In some cases people register their names, or the names of recently deceased persons, at every booth and then cast their votes; they can cast up to 20 votes.

The honourable member for Hurstville said that the electoral rolls are checked once vote counting has been completed. What happens if it is found that deceased people have voted or people have voted five times? The officers of the State Electoral Office cannot find deceased persons or persons who have registered at a specific address. In some cases five or six people with similar names may live at the same address. What can be done if an infringement notice is sent to an address but the person is not there? In the meantime votes have been counted and a member has been elected.

There are many instances of electoral fraud. Unions use fraudulent voting methods to influence a swinging seat in Labor’s favour. It happens not only in State and Federal elections but also in local government elections. To register to vote in local government elections one simply needs to visit the council chambers with a witness, and no check is made of the witness. People can provide any name
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and be registered. Indeed, as the counter is not always staffed by the same people, they can return many times over a number of months to register. People can register a number of times and be entitled to vote more than once.

The Electoral Commissioner, rather than local government, is now in charge of elections, and that has made it more difficult to check on voting. But even at the local government level voters’ names can be cross-checked. More than one person registered at an address and not entitled to vote has voted. That person is not at the address and consequently does not pay a fine because that person does not exist. But a vote has been registered which, in many cases, can make all the difference to the result. The honourable member for Hurstville said that the bill will take away people’s democratic rights and make voting more difficult. That is hogwash! How many people who are entitled to vote would not have more than one form of identification? In this day and age people have drivers’ licences, Video Ezy cards, Medicare cards, Bankcards, Visa cards, et cetera.

Anyone who wants to go overseas seems to be able to produce adequate identification to obtain a passport. This morning as I was coming to this place on the ferry I was thinking about people who buy ferry tickets, bus tickets and theatre tickets, which are used once only. They are punched, cut in half, or in some other way marked so that they cannot be used again. If there is a will there is a way to produce a form of identification to be used once only on voting day. No double dipping would occur. It seems plain and simple to me. I cannot understand why, in this day and age of electronic voting, we cannot introduce a system of electronic voting. I do not agree with the assertion that such a system would cause bedlam on voting day and dramatically increase the workload.

Computer voting may be introduced in the near future. It can be done if we want it done. If we continue to give excuses as to why it cannot be done, it will not be done. This fraud cannot be allowed to continue. No-one knows how many times it occurs or what percentage of the vote is involved, although the honourable member for Hurstville came up with multiple voting figures of five here, 22 there, 30 there - but that is not what the bill is about. It is about the hundreds of people who have voted more than once because no checks are made. Many seats are decided on a handful of votes, which may make all the difference as to whether a particular person is elected. As a result of the inability to check whether a voter has voted more than once, the result may not reflect the will of the majority of the people.

Mr NAGLE (Auburn) [11.14 a.m.]: When one introduces a bill into this House, the first thing one should do is present the evidence to show that a mischief has to be rectified. When the honourable member for Coffs Harbour introduced this bill he produced not one iota of evidence to show that rorting had occurred in New South Wales in any circumstances or on such a scale as to warrant the introduction of this type of legislation. The honourable member for Coffs Harbour had the opportunity to present to this House and have recorded in Hansard the evidence to prove that there was a good reason that his bill should be passed by the House. That evidence would be empirical, factual evidence showing, electorate by electorate, systemic corruption in regard to voting thereby necessitating voters to produce some form of identification, such as a driver’s licence. The bill even mentions a death certificate.

The production of such documents would place an enormous burden on the people of New South Wales during an election. The honourable member for Orange has only been in this place for five minutes. If he were to come to my electorate and see the long queues of people waiting to vote on election day he would realise what a burden it would be for them to have to produce some form of identification. If the honourable member for Coffs Harbour could show me, electorate by electorate, evidence of widespread rorting in New South Wales I would be willing to re-examine the legislation. When he introduced this bill he quoted from some article written in a newspaper by Frank Hardy about the Yellow Brick Road, and all this other nonsense he goes on with, as a basis for proving that the Labor Party is involved in widespread electoral rorting and corruption. He has wasted the time of the Parliament by introducing this bill based on something that Frank Hardy wrote in a newspaper article. The honourable member for Coffs Harbour did not even identify the article.

Mr Fraser: You are wasting the time of this Parliament, not me.

Mr NAGLE: The honourable member for Coffs Harbour had his chance to speak, but now it is my turn to speak. In a democracy I should be entitled to say what I have to say without continual interruptions from the honourable member for Coffs Harbour. He once called me unAustralian because I look after 38,000 families in New South Wales. The honourable member for Coffs Harbour said that because Frank Hardy wrote this article Frank Hardy would know about widespread corruption in the
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Labor Party. The Australian Encyclopaedia says of Frank Hardy that he is a well-known author who was born in Victoria on 21 March 1917. He left school at the age of 13 and worked as a fruit-picker, road-construction worker, seaman and grocer. The entry goes on to say:

He became a member of the Communist Party in 1939, and served in the Australian Army from 1941 to 1946. His writing career began at the age of 27 . . .

He wrote Power Without Glory, which was loosely based on the Wren era in Victoria. The honourable member for Coffs Harbour said that as Frank Hardy was a member of the Labor Party he would know what went on in relation to election rorting. Frank Hardy was never a member of the Labor Party. He never joined the Labor Party. He was a member of the Communist Party. He campaigned vigorously against endorsed Labor candidates. If any rorting was going on it would have been in the Communist Party. In every election, except in 1943 and 1946, the vote for the Communist Party was 2 per cent or 3 per cent.

[Interruption]

This is a democracy and I am addressing the House. I am entitled to address the House without you rudely interrupting me.

Mr ACTING-SPEAKER (Mr Gaudry): Order! It is the province of the Chair to maintain order in the House. Members will cease interjecting.

Mr NAGLE: The 1943 and 1946 elections were the only elections in which the Communist Party in this country ever got more than 7 per cent or 8 per cent of the vote. In all other elections it polled about 1 per cent or 2 per cent of the vote. Yet the honourable member for Coffs Harbour has relied on an unidentified article by Frank Hardy, having given the House no intimation of when it was written, as the basis on which this House should impose upon the people of New South Wales the burden of having to prove their identity when they vote on election day. The honourable member would have to persuade the Government of the day that there was a real problem or a mischief to be rectified by presenting evidence that at the last election, or the election before last, on a seat-by-seat basis, widespread corruption occurred. If the honourable member does not want to target widespread corruption, he should examine what happened in marginal seats to determine the voting patterns. He should consider the voting pattern in his electorate, marginal Liberal-National party seats and marginal Labor seats to discover whether there has been widespread corruption.

The seat of Manly was won by about 170 votes and Badgerys Creek was won by 107 votes. The coalition had 14 days in which to lodge an appeal against the declared result in the seat of Gladesville if it had evidence of ballot rorting. It said it had all the information, but it never lodged one appeal against the result in any of those three seats. If the coalition had been able to prove rorting in those seats the Court of Disputed Returns would have overridden the results and ordered fresh elections. But it could not be proven, because there was no rorting. This nonsense legislation, based upon Frank Hardy’s article in a newspaper, would impose an enormous burden on people.

Mr ACTING-SPEAKER: Order! The honourable member for Oxley will have an opportunity to contribute to the debate. He will remain silent.

Mr NAGLE: The more Opposition members squeal as the knife cuts into them, the more it becomes apparent that they know this is the truth of the matter. This legislation is about disfranchising a large number of elderly voters, ethnic voters, and people who may not have a driver’s licence. My electorate has a large ethnic community and many women do not hold a driver’s licence because the husbands do the driving, as is their tradition. Ethnic women would turn up to vote with an Australian citizenship certificate.

Mr ACTING-SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Oxley to order.

Mr NAGLE: Ethnic women would turn up to vote with an Australian citizenship certificate and no evidence that the person carrying that certificate is a person who is eligible to vote. What would happen to all the people who could not produce identification? They would be disfranchised and told that they were ineligible to vote. This reminds me of the amazing situation that occurred at the last election, in which ticks and crosses were outlawed for voting for the lower House but allowed for the upper House. In my electorate of Auburn the informal vote rose from 2 per cent to 7.5 per cent, because people put either a tick or a cross; they did not understand the voting system.

Some time ago, during similar debate about the electoral system, it was said that people of ethnic
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origin who do not understand what they are doing when they go to vote should be deprived of the right to vote. Why should they be deprived if they do not understand the intricacies of a parliamentary system which does not allow ticks and crosses? The disallowance of ticks and crosses was not well advertised by the former Government, which won the election by two seats by doing away with ticks and crosses. If there is any rorting in the electoral system it emanates from the Opposition. The basic tenet of National Party and Liberal Party members is that they were born to rule and they will use any method that they can use to ensure they rule.

I call upon the honourable member for Coffs Harbour, who wants people to produce their licence or passport to the electoral officers before being allowed to vote, to prove one element that is essential to acceptance of this bill: that there is widespread electoral rorting in this State. He cannot meet that test. The figures speak for themselves. When I went to vote at the Regents Park polling booth on election day there was a line of about 30 people; they took only 12 minutes to lodge their votes because of the effective electoral officer working there. If each elector had to produce identification, that line would have been longer. Some people may decide not to vote if they have to stand in line in pouring rain or wait for any time before voting. In a democracy it is essential that all eligible voters are able to cast their votes.

Recently I spoke with people from the United States of America who said they envied our system of compulsory voting. In the State of California 36.4 per cent of enrolled voters actually voted and the governor was elected with 18.2 per cent of the vote. That is really a shame. That State is rife with corruption; it is so bad that numerous anticorruption bodies have been appointed to try to weed out electoral, political and bureaucratic corruption and fraud. We do not want that in this State. Australia has two things that set it above the most other countries in regard to the level of corruption; Australia does not have as much corruption as Malaysia, Indonesia, China and Peru. The two things that keep this country free from corruption are compulsory voting in a fair voting system, and question time. Those two great instruments have become an integral part of our fair voting system.

The burden that the Opposition seeks to impose on people by way of this bill will discourage 5 per cent or 10 per cent of people not to vote. That might not seem to be so bad, but the Opposition may well disqualify another 10 per cent or 15 per cent of voters. That latter group will include the elderly, widows, and people of ethnic origin, who may forget to take their identification to the polling booth. Effectively those people will never cast a vote for representative government. In this Chamber enormous power is wielded by members of Parliament and by the Executive. That power should be curbed by the right of the people to freely and without hindrance cast a fair and honest vote every three or four years without being called upon to produce identification.

Mr Fraser: This bill will stop Labor’s branch stacking.

Mr NAGLE: The honourable member for Coffs Harbour mentioned branch stacking. The difference between his party and my party is that Labor allows its rank and file to select its candidate and in his party candidates are appointed by a controlling bureaucracy.

Mr Jeffery: On a point of order. The honourable member for Auburn has made a false accusation about the National Party method of preselection. We do have a rank and file selection of candidates.

Mr ACTING-SPEAKER (Mr Gaudry): Order! No point of order is involved.

Mr NAGLE: In my party candidates have to attend at least three branch meetings a year in order to be identified and properly credentialled, whereas in the National Party they have to pay $50 to get a vote. Someone who is rich enough can pay enough people to buy the vote. We will not have that inflicted upon the people of this State. I will repeat it so that the new member for Port Macquarie can understand. He is an intelligent, bright man; I saw him interviewed on Statewide. Honourable members have heard many points of order raised by the honourable member for Oxley; they leave a lot to be desired.

If the Opposition had factual evidence of widespread corruption and rorting in the electoral system of this State, the Government would act to make sure it would never occur again. The Opposition’s bill is a move to rip off the people, to disfranchise perhaps 20 per cent of the electorate by imposing an enormous burden on them, when there is not one ounce of evidence to show that there is a need for this legislation. There is no mischief to be rectified; there never was. The House should reject this bill.

Mr OAKESHOTT (Port Macquarie) [11.29 a.m.]: I will pick up on a couple of points raised by the honourable member for Auburn and the
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honourable member for Hurstville. In the last 10 minutes the honourable member for Auburn asked the Opposition to prove that electoral fraud is occurring. The Opposition cannot prove that electorate-by-electorate because it does not have those statistics. The system does not allow for that. That is exactly the point the Opposition is seeking to make. The bill seeks to put in place a system that will allow for proof of electoral fraud to be obtained and presented.

As to the Labor Party itself, I refer the honourable member for Auburn to incidents at Port Macquarie McDonald’s involving the honourable member for Cabramatta and the honourable member for Fairfield, and I encourage the honourable member for Auburn to read his own Labor document Abuse of Power. If those incidents were not playing with the system, I do not know what is. The honourable member for Hurstville argued that it is a human and democratic right to vote unfettered and unchallenged. It is a strange argument that people have both a right to vote and a right to defraud the system.

Pursuant to sessional orders business interrupted.

Ms NORI (Port Jackson) [11.30 a.m.]: I move:

That this House:

(a) congratulates the Telstra NSW Regional Small Business of the Year winner, Nowra Chemicals, and the regional category winners, Agrigrain, The Hunter Resort, the Stetson Steakhouse and Saloon Bar and Australian Lock Company, winner of the 1997 Telstra NSW Small Business of the Year and the other State category winners, Hans Hulsbosch, Photo Waste Management and Audio Sound Centre; and

(b) supports the continuing contribution by the small business community to NSW employment and economic growth.

Last month I had the opportunity to present the 1997 Telstra-Regional Small Business Awards and - later the same day - to represent the Government at the New South Wales Small Business Awards. The awards are widely regarded as a prestigious accolade for Australian business. They recognise the great contribution made by innovative and dynamic regional small business to the growing New South Wales economy. I know that honourable members on both sides of the House will join me in congratulating the finalists in both the regional and State awards. With more than 256,000 small businesses operating in this State, even to make the final is a great achievement. To establish a successful small business, one must first have a good idea. But it takes more than a good idea to make a successful business. It requires well-honed business skills to drive those good ideas into the marketplace and to realise that vision - the sort of vision shown by the finalists and winners of the awards.

As Parliamentary Secretary for Small Business I have visited many small businesses outside Sydney in the past 18 months. I genuinely say that I have come to have great respect for the entrepreneurship and sheer hard work of so many businesses in the bush. In recognition of the extra challenges faced by regional businesses I shall give the House some background on the regional award winners. The Government, through the Department of State and Regional Development, was a sponsor of the awards. I understand that the honourable member for Northern Tablelands instituted the awards some time ago; they are a good idea. In the category of business with fewer than 10 employees the winner - and also the regional west winner - was Agrigrain. Agrigrain was established in Narromine in 1983 by a group of enterprising local business people to buy and resell locally grown grain. Agrigrain in its first year of operations handled 5,000 tonnes of grain. Today the business handles more than 120,000 tonnes of grain a year, employs seven, and has greatly increased its range of activities. Agrigrain has successfully tackled both the export and import replacement markets. I extend congratulations to the owner, Mr David Ringland.

In the category of business with fewer than 50 employees the winner, and regional winner for the Hunter region, was the Hunter Resort. The Hunter Resort is a secluded 80-acre estate in the heart of the Hunter Valley that offers guests four-star accommodation and the opportunity to stay at a working vineyard. Since 1991 the resort has been owned and operated by a brother-and-sister team, Karina and Phillip Hele. The resort was also a finalist in the 1997 New South Wales tourism awards for excellence. Regional Small Business Entrepreneur of the Year was awarded to Graham and Marlene Manvell from Tamworth’s Stetson Steakhouse and Saloon Bar. I attend the Tamworth music festival most years and I can recommend that business.

Mr Scully: Do you wear a stetson?

Mr Jeffery: Or an Akubra?

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Ms NORI: I wear an Akubra and I go bootscooting. Although the Manvells started their business only in 1993, its unique character and great success have already led to franchised outlets. It is a credit to a regional small business to have reached the stage at which it can be franchised. The winner of the category of manufacturer with fewer than 60 employees, and regional winner for the Illawarra, was Nowra Chemicals. This business is a family-owned chemical manufacturing company that was established in 1977 with a staff of only two. Today it employs 36, and produces a wide range of cleaning products for industry and specialised products for the food industry. I am delighted to inform the House that Nowra Chemicals also won the overall regional category winner as the 1997 Telstra-New South Wales Regional Small Business of the Year. It is a delight to have the success of a regional, family-based business recognised by such an award. The contribution by Nowra Chemicals to the local economy and employment is to be applauded.

The State awards also present a great story for the regions. The overall winner as New South Wales Small Business of the Year was the Australian Lock Company from the Illawarra. The Australian Lock Company was also winner in the category of manufacturer with fewer than 60 employees. In 1982 Brian Preddey, a master locksmith and founder of the company, invented a locking system that was virtually 100 per cent pick resistant and gave absolute key and system security. Today his factory in Fairy Meadow employs 44, turns over $6.8 million a year and manufactures security systems recognised as among the best in the world. That is of great credit to a regional company. Each of the award winners has an impressive story to tell.

The winner of the business with fewer than 10 employees category was the Audio Sound Centre in Artarmon. After an extensive career in location sound recording, working for Channel 10 and Channel 9, Geoff Grist decided to establish his own professional audio solutions company. Geoff and his wife, Belinda, began hiring out sound equipment from their lounge room. Today the Audio Sound Centre employs nine staff and turned over more than $3 million in the last financial year. The more one has to do with small businesses the more one realises that some do start off very humbly, often operating out of a room in the family home. Through sheer hard work, determination and innovation they improve their position, employ more people and even export. That is of great credit to the ingenuity and guts of the people who are willing to take that risk.

The winner of the business with fewer than 50 employees category was Photo Waste Management. The company began operating in 1987 with one employee and today employs 37 people. It has an annual turnover of $5.3 million and has as customers multinational companies such as Kodak. Photo Waste Management specialises in assisting customers in effectively managing waste products from the photographic, X-ray and graphic arts businesses. Small Business Entrepreneur of the Year was awarded to the graphic design company Hulsbosch Pty Ltd. Hans Hulsbosch, who was born in the Netherlands, moved to Australia in 1979 and for five years worked as senior art director at Clemengers. During that time he identified a gap in the market and in 1986 set up his company with capital of $300. Today his company employs 17 and has a profit of $2.7 million. Telstra should be congratulated - as should the other award sponsors, Optus, Qantas and the Department of State and Regional Development - for their continuing support of these highly regarded awards. Tonight the winners of the Australiawide awards are to be announced in Adelaide and I am sure honourable members will join me in wishing the New South Wales businesses that will be represented there the best of luck.

Mr CHAPPELL (Northern Tablelands) [11.40 a.m.]: I join with the honourable member in extending congratulations to this year’s winners of the Telstra-New South Wales Regional Small Business of the Year Award. I also congratulate those participants who will not receive the accolade because every business that takes part in the awards is a winner at least in attitude. I congratulate the major sponsor, Telstra, and the other sponsors who put their names, and their money, to these awards. By doing so they are promoting one of the nation’s best assets, the small business entrepreneurs who are out there having a go, building wealth for the nation and finding new and better ways of doing business. The Department of State and Regional Development has carried on a tradition which I am proud to have established when I was Minister for Small Business and Regional Development in the former Government.

At that time I recognised that although many of the companies nominating for State small business awards were regionally based, they were able to compete with major companies and other companies that were city-based and had the benefits of a larger marketplace, a better skills base for selecting employees and so forth. I thought at the time that if they were able to do that, if they were
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able to compete at the big end of town and win consistently, as they were doing, perhaps they were worthy of recognition in their own right. I recall hosting the first awards function, a cocktail party before the awards ceremony, on level 38, the top floor, of the former State Office Block. The participants were lit up like Christmas trees and pleased to think that, as a group of regional businesses, they were being given the opportunity to come to town and show their wares, join with one another, share the experience of their success and egg each other on to do even better.

That is the special nature of these award ceremonies. Similar awards are held at regional level and are sponsored by the existing State and regional development boards. An award ceremony was conducted in Armidale recently for the New England and north-west regions. The awards are important because they give the winners an opportunity to come together and support each other, and enjoy their success. It is tough in the marketplace and very competitive, and these business people often feel very lonely and isolated as they struggle on. In particular the awards give the owners and managers of small businesses an opportunity to pat their staff on the back and say, "We are a team. Without you we could not have done it." The camaraderie and spirit shown by the companies on awards night is something one has to experience to believe. It does wonders for everyone involved, for the company, for the industry, and also for the community of which they are part. Very often these businesses are operating in a back street of a town where no-one knows about them.

During my term as Minister for Small Business and Regional Development I travelled around the State and I encountered all sorts of weird and wonderful businesses operating successfully in the back streets of country towns, virtually unknown to anyone in town. I could name business after business that I located in that manner. Those businesses were getting on and doing the job. They were employing two, five, perhaps 15 local people and were delivering the goods. They did not spend time waving flags in the local community, they were just getting on with the job. I remember, late in my ministry, visiting Manilla and seeing a run-down shed - I am not quite sure what the building had been used for 100 years ago, but it was a very old building. In that building a company was making high pressure fire hoses that were being sold nationally and internationally. It was absolutely state-of-the art equipment but the state of the building on the outside disguised what was going on inside. However, the business was successful and achieving great results in a tough, competitive but isolated market.

Business award ceremonies bring to the fore those businesses that are having a go. In my home town of Armidale last year the regional small business of the year, Petals Network, took on Interflora, a one-only business in its field, but Petals Network has gone from strength to strength. Not only did it win the Regional Small Business of the Year Award, it also won the State and National Small Business of the Year Awards, merely by taking a service, analysing it, pulling it to pieces, putting it back together again and doing the job better using the latest technology. Anyone, anywhere can succeed: the awards give us an opportunity to recognise that potential. I particularly recall to mind an engineering firm in Newcastle that won the State small business award some years ago. It was involved in the production of high pressure vessels, hyperbaric chambers. Not only did the company win at New South Wales and national levels, it was producing a product which was by far the best in the world. In fact, the company did so well at producing its product that several international standards had to be rewritten to accommodate it.

That product was developed in a shed in a back street in a suburb of Newcastle, but it could just as easily have happened in a small country town. Those are the great success stories upon which Australian entrepreneurship and ingenuity have flourished for many years. Such success should be recognised by government in particular, and also by commerce and banking. One of the things that can hold these companies back is limited access to venture capital and finance when they need it. They need recognition by the financiers. A small business that is growing very quickly can get into difficulties with its cash flow. That does not indicate lack of opportunity or activity, merely that the business is growing so quickly that its needs are greater than they might otherwise be. I always made a point of speaking to bankers who attended award ceremonies. Often they would sponsor the award nights and I would say to them, "You have to get out there into the factories as Ministers and others do because you have to have a feel for just how successful these people are and how genuine their needs are."

It may be that those businesses do occasionally have a cash flow problem but it is a good problem because it arises from growth and success. I constantly made the plea to the banking sector and to the financiers, and I make it again today, that they need to understand small business better, so that they can serve small business better. We can all
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gain from that, particularly by way of creation of jobs and profits for Australia. I want to bring to attention one other business, because it proves the point that a range of wonderful things come out of small towns. Just above Armidale is the town of Guyra. Recently the town’s abattoir was closed and everyone was sad about that. However, one Guyra business won the Regional Small Business of the Year Award. Ruddweigh Australasia makes electronic measuring scales and equipment in a little shed on the side of the road. As one drives through Guyra one can see the name "Ruddweigh" on the door. That company exports electronic scales to 36 countries and it is now making inroads into the South American market.

Mr Armstrong: They are weighing in very well.

Mr CHAPPELL: They are indeed weighing in very well. Accepting the award for the company on award night, Sally Thomson said that her parents had had a great idea, and had put a great deal of persistence, energy and creativity into the business over the years, as had the company’s loyal staff, but that it was the team as a whole that had brought success. That is a message from which we can all take heart. If the professions, commerce and trade in Australia could adopt the principles, the determination, the creativity, the sheer guts and hard work that go into running a successful small business, this country would be very much economically stronger than it is at present. These people are putting their own livelihoods and family investments on the line to produce a better product in a smarter way. They are the lifeblood of the country and they deserve these awards.

Ms MEAGHER (Cabramatta) [11.50 a.m.]: I know that members on both sides of the House will take great pleasure in seeing the ingenuity and perseverance of the small business community recognised and rewarded. The Telstra small business awards are among the most important awards on the small business calendar. They play an important part in recognising and promoting the economic achievements of small to medium enterprises to the wider community, as well as serving to promote individual achievement. I believe the 1996 overall winners, King Communications, received additional orders worth $1 million after its triumph last year. As well as helping to facilitate small business networking, these awards also give businesses an opportunity to benchmark their own performance and critically assess their accomplishments, future goals and directions. Importantly, they provide an insight into what makes a small business successful.

The key to success in small business lies in combining creativity and entrepreneurial prowess. It is about recognising opportunities, managing risk, tackling problems, being flexible, persevering to the end and being able to work with other people. These awards highlight the strengths and virtues of small business. These virtues include: specialist knowledge and expertise that enable small business to be highly customer focused; an ability to keep pace with changes in the marketplace; a well developed understanding of what the customer requires, which enables small business to tailor products and services to meet changing demands, which gives them the ability to uncover and develop niche markets; and the total service provided by small business, with timeliness, variety and individual attention representing real value for money to the customer.

The economic significance of the small business sector to this State is immense. Small business is the core of the New South Wales economy. More than 256,000 small businesses operate in this State, accounting for 95 per cent of all enterprises. They provide 46 per cent of the State’s non-agricultural sector employment, a total of 879,200 jobs. Small business is the only sector of the Australian economy where there is net employment growth. In the 1995 financial year the small business work force in Australia grew by 6.4 per cent or 225,000 jobs. The dynamic nature of small businesses means that they are among the first to identify and service new or changing demands, particularly in newly identified niches in finance, property, business services, wholesale and retail trade, hospitality and tourism.

The sustained growth of the Australian economy will be led by individuals who have the ingenuity and commitment to build competitive businesses. Those people who recognise their own strengths, capabilities and knowledge have already gained a competitive edge. Australia needs many of these new dynamic entrepreneurs to consolidate its position in an increasingly dynamic world. The message that comes from the Telstra small business awards is that Australia is forging ahead through the small business arena. New ideas are being capitalised on. Better business practices are being implemented and the message is one of opportunity and optimism for Australia’s future. Indeed, New South Wales small business is ready to meet the challenge. Some 52 per cent of small businesses in this State responding to a recent survey indicated positive expectations for the economy in the year ahead. I understand that Qantas, Ericsson, Ernst and Young, Business Review Weekly and the Daily
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Telegraph gave generous support to the awards program in 1997. Our thanks are due to them, and our congratulations to the finalists and winners.

Mr PEACOCKE (Dubbo) [11.54 a.m.]: I am delighted to support this motion. Many years ago, in 1989 when I was Minister for Business and Consumer Affairs, the small business awards were initiated and I think the Daily Telegraph was the leader in getting them going. The reporter who prepared a small business column for the Daily Telegraph and I cooked up the idea of having the awards. It was with some trepidation that we in the Department of Business and Consumer Affairs made an annual donation of $10,000 a year to the award, and I am pleased that that has continued. Small business in Australia is the one bright light, as previous speakers have said, in providing more employment. Small business will become more important as time goes by because as middle management of larger corporations are retrenched, they will end up in small businesses.

Recognition of the small business awards is important because it highlights and encourages the efforts of small business to do what they do well. To be of real and lasting value, small business in Australia has also to play another role, that of becoming ultimately big business. Not all small businesses will become big businesses. Many businesses, particularly smaller entrepreneurs, like to be small but some are on the way to becoming big businesses. Governments at all levels, Commonwealth, State and local, should assist businesses to make the quantum leap from small to big, as that transition is difficult for many entrepreneurs. Some years ago in Boston I saw a friend of mine who worked with a large accountancy firm that had specialised in helping big business. His firm did the accounts for big corporations but there were so many mergers and takeovers that their client base began to diminish. They decided to look at up-and-coming small business firms and were amazed at what they found. Their business expanded dramatically because they were able to help small firms bridge the gap between small and big.

In Australia we should do the same and facilitate growth. Government should get off the back of small business, and develop a culture not of obstructing small businesses but of facilitating their growth and survival. Never in its history in Australia has small business faced more obstacles to success than it faces today. Not the least of those is the dramatic and ruthless growth of big business into monopolies and oligopolies. Big business has long since forgotten its obligation to use small business. Small business has the classic role of being the distributor for large business. Sadly, many big corporations forget that and therefore give benefits to similar large businesses, for instance in retailing, at the cost of the small business entrepreneur. There are many great features about small businessmen. Not all of them are big and not all of them are bad.

Ms Nori: And not all of them are men, either.

Mr PEACOCKE: That is true. It is pleasing to see the great growth of women in small business. Women in business care for their employees. They do not have the heartless number approach of some big corporations.

Mr Scully: Like John Howard and Peter Reith.

Mr PEACOCKE: No, they are facilitating the growth of small business by getting off its back. But your lot in Canberra recently created another problem for them by not passing the unfair dismissal legislation. I am pleased that the Minister raised this issue because it is the greatest deterrent to more employment in small business, next only to workers compensation and other on-costs. I congratulate Telstra and all the other organisations that have supported the truly worthwhile small business of the year awards. We should follow through more and give as much assistance as we can to the little guys in society to help them become big business.

Mr HUNTER (Lake Macquarie) [12.00 p.m.]: I am pleased to speak in support of the motion moved by the honourable member for Port Jackson. Small business makes a very significant contribution to the New South Wales economy and to job and wealth creation. According to business registration figures there are 256,000 small businesses in New South Wales. If the multitude of businesses operating under an owner’s name, and therefore not required to be registered, were added to that figure, the number would be even greater. Small businesses make up 97 per cent of all enterprises operating in New South Wales and provide 879,000 private sector jobs. The Telstra small business awards result from a close working partnership between Telstra, other private sector sponsors and supporters, and the Government. The awards recognise the efforts of individual organisations that are leading the way in demonstrating that competitive businesses can be built by innovation and commitment.

During the past 10 years most new jobs created in New South Wales have been in small business, particularly in those organisations employing fewer than 10 people. It is expected that small businesses will continue to be the predominant source of future job growth in the State. To assist
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this growth, Government support and commitment to small business is demonstrated through a number of initiatives, such as the regional business development scheme; the AusIndustry scheme, in association with the Federal Government; expansion of the very successful women in business mentor program; the creation of agribusiness and export advisory programs; and the funding of organisations such as business enterprise centres. In 1997-98 the Department of State and Regional Development allocated $5.9 million of this State’s budget to small business development.

As a member of the Joint Standing Committee upon Small Business, I congratulate the honourable member for Port Jackson on the great work she is doing as parliamentary secretary, particularly her emphasis on the needs of small business. All committee members, especially Government members, realise that she has a great future in this Government. Not long ago she visited the Lake Macquarie electorate and launched the Toronto prospectus, a document that provides business people interested in establishing business in the region with detailed information about Toronto and surrounding areas. She was very well received by the local chamber of commerce and many small business people because her reputation had preceded her.

A significant proportion of the budget allocation of $5.9 million for small business development is being used in the delivery of advisory and information services to starters in business and to new businesses. Through the Small Business Development Corporation the Government is actively exploring issues affecting growth companies in order to identify and support those firms that have the potential to contribute to jobs growth. The Government values the contribution small businesses make to the community, and is committed to increasing accessibility to and the range of resources available for businesses to achieve commercial success. Because of their size, small businesses are confronted with special challenges, such as competition from big businesses with tiered management structures and in-house specialists on hand. In this respect it is particularly pleasing that large organisations such as Telstra have demonstrated a commitment to a program that encourages and rewards excellence amongst regional small businesses. Today I join with other members to congratulate not only the winners of the awards but all those who entered and took part in the awards night.

Mr R. W. TURNER (Orange) [12.05 p.m.]: Today it gives me much pleasure to congratulate Telstra on its regional small business awards. I also congratulate the honourable member for Port Jackson on the role she is playing supporting regional small businesses. Telstra is not the only organisation that recognises the importance of regional small businesses. Throughout the country there are a range of business awards, from city awards to village community awards. The organisations associated with those awards should be congratulated on the efforts they make to recognise small businesses in their regions. Last Saturday evening I attended one of the social events of the year in Orange when the Orange Chamber of Commerce, sponsored by NZI Insurance, presented its business awards in front of approximately 650 people. More than 300 nominations had been made for awards. Whilst companies are finding it tough in Orange at the moment, a lot of small business owners use the awards as a form of reward to their staff.

Last Saturday night a special award was presented to a manufacturing company in Orange, Joma Engineering Pty Ltd. During the years the proprietors of Joma Engineering have had more than their share of problems. Last year the company went under, but the staff took over the company and it is now flourishing. I congratulate them on their efforts and on winning this manufacturing award. The Chamber of Commerce at Orange recognises not only businesses in Orange but those in surrounding areas. The chamber often presents awards to farming enterprises, to vineyards and so on. Many service industries in country New South Wales are closing, and I refer particularly to local post offices and banks. But small towns of only 150 or 250 people are demonstrating their resilience by taking over those services. For example, the corner store might take over the franchise for the post office, or for a bank or credit union. Country business people are determined to stay in business. Without such resilience small towns will die.

Businesses often look for government support but because of the bureaucratic red tape involved they give up or they find they are not eligible. I am proud to be part of the Orange small business community - a community with diversified business interests. One business venture involves the production of lucerne cubes for export to Japan. Down the road from my business a company is exporting Australian wild flowers to South-east Asia. Other businesses include conducted tours of central Australia. Big companies, and especially multinationals, are not interested in small jobs. As a consequence many small transport companies have trucks travelling thousands of kilometres a week to support and serve other small businesses. Whilst it is
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necessary for major companies such as Telstra to recognise businesses on a State or national basis, it is also equally important for us to acknowledge that country cities and villages also support regional small businesses and that without those businesses regional New South Wales would die.

Mr Armstrong: Mr Acting-Speaker -

Mr ACTING-SPEAKER (Mr Mills): Order! In accordance with standing orders, the next speaker to be called is the mover in reply.

Mr Armstrong: On a point of order. I wish to participate in the debate as a member of this Parliament.

Mr ACTING-SPEAKER (Mr Mills): Order! Standing orders are clear on this matter. Under Standing Order 118 the Chair is unable to give the call to the honourable member. However, that does not preclude the Minister from moving a motion to suspend standing orders, should he so choose.

Motion, by leave, by Mr Scully agreed to:

That standing and sessional orders be suspended to allow the Leader of the National Party to speak to the motion for five minutes.

Mr ARMSTRONG (Lachlan - Leader of the National Party) [12.10 p.m.]: I thank the Minister for Roads and the Government for their indulgence in allowing me to speak to this motion. I join with other members in complimenting Telstra on making these small business awards. I congratulate those who participated, both the winners and the entrants. It is important to recognise the value of these awards in the broader community, particularly the small business community in country New South Wales. Much government work suppresses and depresses the people of New South Wales. The tendency is to penalise people by legislating for what they can and cannot do. Indeed, the Parliament is obstructionist.

It is invigorating to talk about something positive. Many speakers this morning pointed out the value of small business. I shall make a couple of additional points. In most suburbs and country towns small business involves buying and selling. Some people go backwards financially; others tend to diversify their businesses. However, they are moving money and people. Small businesses operate most effectively. They give young people their first jobs, in which they learn the basic disciplines. They offer opportunities to people who have been relocated with a partner. Often partners of professional people or public servants who relocate to the country have difficulty finding employment in a new location. Small business often provides the vehicle that allows them to participate in the community and to earn a living.

Small businesses are truly multifunctional; they are multifaceted training, employment, business and money generators in the broader fabric of society. In addition, small business people provide much of the character of our country towns. Most importantly, they are frequently called on to support not only local charities but many government businesses. When the local hospital runs short of funds what is the first thing that happens? Someone knocks on the door of the local business houses. When organising the annual agriculture show someone again knocks on those doors. When an appeal is launched after a person loses his or her house someone knocks on the doors of the business houses. Small business people demonstrate their good natures by continually make a contribution and seldom asking for anything in return.

Only last week the Parkes-Forbes Business Enterprise Centre held its first black-tie dinner to present its BEC awards. The guest speaker was the ABC woman of the year, Mrs Barbara Scott from Gilgandra, who is an outstanding small business person. It was marvellous to see about 30 small business people receive their awards. Those in their mid-fifties and early sixties who received awards had big grins on their faces like schoolkids on speech night. It was one of the greatest things that had happened to them. I feel good knowing that these people, who had served the community so unselfishly over the years, had had a minute in the limelight. It was one of the more successful functions I have attended recently.

This motion has bipartisan support. The Government has a responsibility to continue to support small business, and I am sure it will. It is incumbent on the Government to recognise that small business needs more assistance, particularly in changing the character of business. Small business needs support in the areas of payroll tax, workers compensation costs and regulations, and unfair dismissal laws. I realise that the Federal Government is responsible for unfair dismissal legislation, but I must refer to it in this debate. Those three areas severely inhibit small business. Small business needs a Minister with an acceptable profile. I urge the Government to think seriously about appointing the honourable member for Port Jackson as the additional Minister. She has enormous appeal to small business. She has colour and flair, and small business people like her. There is no choice between her and the suggested alternative, the honourable
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member for Clarence, who lacks colour and a profile in the community; he has not sought to capture small business. I note that my suggestion has bipartisan support. Even the people in the gallery are nodding their heads. We have polled those good people and they have said, "Come down, Sandra. We want you as the next Minister."

Ms NORI (Port Jackson) [12.15 p.m.], in reply: As there was an additional unexpected speaker in the debate I shall be brief and confine my comments to thanking those who participated. I thank the House for its indulgence in allowing the motion to be reordered for today. Small businesses across regional New South Wales will take heart from the fact that the House has taken the time and trouble to consider the important role they play in the New South Wales economy. The House wants to support small businesses and bestow an accolade on them for their contributions. I thank honourable members who participated in the debate.

Motion agreed to.

Debate resumed from 16 October.

Mrs BEAMER (Badgerys Creek) [12.17 p.m.]: I speak in support of the amendment moved by the Minister for the Environment. I want to refer to the major environmental issue affecting my electorate - the proposed second airport site, which has cast a pall over my electorate, given its potential impacts on the people of western Sydney. Building a second airport capable of accommodating 30 million passengers a year will have the most significant environmental impact on the people of western Sydney of any issue. The Federal Government’s environmental impact assessment process has to date given little consideration to a whole range of crucial issues which are fundamental to an informed decision. The Federal Government has been told on numerous occasions that the environmental impacts need to be comprehensively addressed before a decision about the second airport is made. The draft EIS summary states that

. . . the research to date does not provide sufficient information to quantify accurately many of the suggested impacts of noise in particular sensitive groups.

However, in regard to noise impacts the summary concedes as follows:

. . . could be significant as many people would experience noise levels that would exceed Australian Standards".

The air quality issue probably affects most people in western Sydney. The draft EIS summary downplays the potential impact of a second airport on air quality. The Commonwealth’s assessment failed to take into account potential national environmental protection measure standards for fine particle pollution, which indicates that it is totally underestimating the impact on the surrounding area. For the people of Badgerys Creek this State Government has set about providing strong air quality monitoring stations, which the previous Government was trying to stop or disassemble. It was crucially important to the people of Badgerys Creek to have this information available, that it be accurate and that it be documented so that the impacts on the environment could be truly assessed.

Under this proposal at least the State Government can show the Federal Government that western Sydney cannot cope with the kind of pollution about which we are talking. The Federal Government has ignored the importance of ozone as a regional issue in Sydney and its role in the development of photochemical smog is outrageous. Water quality is another issue that impacts on my electorate. Scant attention has been paid to the potential impacts on water quality around the proposed airport site. Statements about the impact of development on the watershed are vague and the impact on ground water was not considered. In short, the Commonwealth has wasted much time and money considering airport site options and has produced virtually no results. A further major omission from the Federal Government’s draft EIS summary is the management of solid wastes from construction works.

The extensive earthworks involved in construction would generate a significant amount of waste. This is a major environmental concern, but the Commonwealth has chosen to omit this issue entirely from consideration. The Federal Government has totally ignored the real impacts from any of the three options - A, B, or C - for the people of Badgerys Creek, Penrith, St Clair and other areas surrounding the airport site. The Federal Government has repeatedly been advised of the vital importance of comprehensive environmental data and its rigorous assessment. I congratulate the State Government and the Minister for the Environment in particular on the way they have examined the real issues of air quality in the Sydney Basin by compiling comprehensive data. As a community we will be able to assess those impacts and say that the Sydney Basin cannot withstand them.

Mr HAZZARD (Wakehurst) [12.22 p.m.], in reply: I assure the honourable member for Badgerys
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Creek that the coalition would be at the forefront of any battle to make sure that a second airport at Badgerys Creek has all the necessary environmental safeguards. Certainly the coalition is concerned to make sure that air quality issues in western Sydney are given absolute priority, that water quality issues are given absolute priority and that noise issues are given absolute priority. The problem at the moment is that the New South Wales Government is playing stupid politics with people’s lives. The State Government knows that the Federal Government quite openly proposes Badgerys Creek as the second airport. I suggest that the New South Wales Government be more sincere and less involved in playing games, and talk to the Federal Government about addressing some of these issues. If not, I assure the House that after March 1999 the coalition will talk to the Federal Government about whatever option is chosen for a second airport or whatever options are taken to expand Sydney’s air transport capacity.

The coalition will be at the forefront talking to its Federal colleagues to make sure that those issues are considered. I know the honourable member for Badgerys Creek does not like playing political games and does not want to sacrifice people’s lives and cause them to be unduly worried about proposed changes to their immediate surroundings. I encourage her to try to step aside from the sort of rhetoric and silliness demonstrated by the Premier and other Ministers and have some substantive discussions. I am sure the Federal Government will be happy to discuss the issues with her if she writes to it. Has the honourable member written to the Federal Government? Is she able to table copies of those letters? She has not done that. She has been a bit naughty. If she had written those letters, she would have had more credibility in this House on this topic.

Mr Armstrong: It is in the mail.

Mr HAZZARD: As the Leader of the National Party said, the letter from the honourable member for Badgerys Creek may be in the mail. She should send the coalition a copy because it would love to read what she said. The Minister for the Environment has moved an interesting amendment. I should like to read the first paragraph, which states:

[That] this House recognises the Carr Labor Government’s frankness in releasing available data from the metropolitan air quality study on the health and environmental impacts of air pollution on the environment and on human health.

What does that mean? It means that this State Government led by Mr Rhetoric, Mr Stupidity, Mr Carr, wants members of this House to pat it on the back because it is being frank with the people! The coalition is surprised if there has been a level of frankness from this Government with the people. Is that not what governments are supposed to do? Is that not what this Government is supposed to do? Is the Government not supposed to be honest, truthful and frank with people? The coalition sees no reason to support the amendment to the motion. In fact, the coalition is stunned at such stupidity. The coalition knew the Government was stupid, but did not realise that it would put in writing that when it is frank with the people it should be congratulated. The coalition does not congratulate the Government, because this motion confirms to the people of New South Wales that the Government is not normally frank with them and that it is happy to lie and to be deceptive.

Ms Allan: Sour grapes.

Mr HAZZARD: There are no sour grapes. The Minister knows her colleagues do not tell the truth and she too has been a bit naughty from time to time, including the episode at Wallis Lake when she blamed the local council for the hepatitis A outbreak.

Ms Allan: Sour grapes. You don’t like being in opposition.

Mr HAZZARD: For the first time the Minister has said something accurate! The coalition does not like being in opposition. In just over 500 days the coalition will not be in opposition; it will be again on the government benches. The people of New South Wales have woken up to the fact that the Government is deceptive and that it is not frank; that it comprises a bunch of lying graduates. The Government is a progressive group of liars that get better and better. The Opposition opposes this amendment because, unfortunately, it paints an incorrect picture the Government.

The Government has not consulted the people. It has done nothing for air or water quality. It has done nothing to address toxic land problems or to address a host of issues. As I mentioned in a debate last week, I have brochures piled high on my desk from environmentalists announcing public forums to criticise the State Government for its inactivity, its stupidity and its lack of commitment to the environment. The Minister is not considered to be committed to the environment. Premier Carr has been shown as having nothing more than a superficial approach to the environment. The Opposition has a commitment to improve the environment and will carry that commitment to government in March 1999.

Amendment agreed to.

Motion as amended agreed to.

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Mr ARMSTRONG (Lachlan - Leader of the National Party) [12.27 p.m.]: I move:

(1) That this House condemns the Government for misleading the people of New South Wales into believing that there exists a surge in development in New South Wales solely through the efforts of the Labor Government;

(2) That this House recognises the previous coalition Government efforts in facilitating development and investment in this State prior to 25 March 1995;

(3) That this House commends the coalition Government for its role in facilitating projects such as:

(a) Walsh Bay development;

(b) Woolloomooloo Finger Wharf development;

(c) Sydney Casino;

(d) AT and T;

(e) FOXTEL pay TV headquarters;

(f) American Express; and

(g) City West development;

which the current Government is wrongfully claiming as its initiatives.

Despite the fact that this motion has been on the business paper for some time, it is as relevant now as it was when it was first moved. Simply put, investment in New South Wales has been stalled since Labor won government in March 1995. The Carr Labor Government has scared off potential investors. But what would one expect from the enviro-nazis such as the Minister for the Environment and the Minister for Land and Water Conservation, who have taken to the statute books and ripped away any desire or reason to invest in New South Wales.

Ms Allan: On a point of order. It may be appropriate for the Leader of the National Party to use those types of expressions, but it is not appropriate for him to do so in this House. I take offence at his expression. Even if my point of order is not upheld, it should be noted that this is not the appropriate place for such expressions to be used about me or the Minister for Land and Water Conservation.

Mr ACTING-SPEAKER (Mr Mills): Order! The Chair did not hear the expression and the Minister has not specified what it was.

Ms Allan: Hansard will have recorded the term "enviro-nazis". It is an increasingly popular term amongst people who are critical of environmental issues. It is not an appropriate term to use when referring to people’s human dignity. I take offence at that comment.

Mr ARMSTRONG: On the point of order. I am pleased that the Minister explained that the expression she objected to was not "ripping away any desire or reason to invest in New South Wales". She has now identified that she objected to "enviro-nazis". That expression is in common usage in the broader community, it is understood by the community, and indeed it is a term that is recorded in Hansard. Therefore, the expression is in order and clearly meets the situation.

Mr ACTING-SPEAKER: Order! Though I understand that the term may be considered offensive, I rule that it is not unparliamentary. I do not uphold the point of order.

Mr ARMSTRONG: The former Olympic chief, Mr Rod McGeoch, raised the alarm before the Standing Committee on State Development when he said that the Government should capitalise on the Olympics and encourage investment opportunities. He criticised the Premier and former Prime Minister Keating for not seizing opportunities to put the State and the country ahead. The Government needs to put New South Wales back on a sure footing, to create jobs for young people and to restore confidence in the State’s economy. How is business reacting to comments from the Premier that we need to "cap our population growth to help reduce the enormous impact" that people are having?

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for State Development is present in the Chamber. She and the Premier, the Minister for State and Regional Development, the Minister for Land and Water Conservation and the Minister for the Environment promote the State. But the Premier said, "No, we have to cap the population." That is a contradiction in terms. Cabinet needs to address the issue and decide who determines Government policy on these matters. The Premier has been hijacked by the doomsayers who would lock up the State and throw away the key.

We need to go back to basics; we need a Premier to lead, not to travel around the globe like a frustrated foreign affairs Minister. After 31 months, with numerous trips under his belt, the Premier is yet to understand the need to get back to the basics of good government and to clearly encourage investment. When the former coalition Government took office in 1988 it established the Department of State Development. Despite Labor’s best efforts at
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that time to derail that initiative, the coalition had outstanding success in bringing real investment opportunities to New South Wales. The list of companies and corporations which were brought to New South Wales under the former coalition Government reads like a who’s who of the current business world.

It is worth recording some investments that the former coalition Government drew to New South Wales: the Minehunter project at Newcastle; Tomago Aluminium smelter, worth $600 million; British Aerospace-Ansett Flying College at Tamworth, $6.5 million; ICI relocated its research and development facility to Cessnock from Melbourne; the Australian Newsprint Mills at Albury, $120 million; the Australian Technology Park, Eveleigh, a project valued at $300 million with 6,000 jobs created - and that has been hailed by the current Government. Major companies that have set up national headquarters in Sydney include Optus, BT Australia, Vodaphone, Cathay Pacific - with a total investment of $2.7 billion and 3,500 direct jobs for New South Wales.

This matter is important because, despite all the froth and bubble, Labor has achieved nothing. It has very few runs on the board. In the face of lower inflation and a booming property market, the Government has had to raise taxes to cover its economic mismanagement. The effects of those taxes are yet to come to haunt the Government. A short article in the Daily Telegraph showed that the September occupancy rates for four-star hotels dropped by more than 10 per cent last year while five-star hotels dropped by 0.5 per cent. Despite the need to resort to taxes such as the bed tax and poker machine tax, the Treasurer recently conceded that, far from the State budget moving to surplus, it is currently running at a deficit of over $350 million.

Put simply, the State is claiming to be actively encouraging investment but is putting a new tax on the industries which are championed by business and by governments nationally and internationally as having the biggest growth rate. One can go to any business conference or lunch and listen to a visiting lecturer from overseas. If one asked the lecturer, "What is the future of Australia?" he would reply, "Tourism." But the Government has imposed a direct tax to suppress and dampen tourism in this State. And, guess what? It’s working! The official figures show that New South Wales is losing out on tourism because of the bed tax. The Australian Labor Party conference rejected the desperate bid by the Premier and Treasurer to privatise the electricity assets. The economic situation will only get worse. The Government will be forced to continue to raise taxes which will force business to go to other States. The Treasury briefing paper states:

. . . if the State is to maintain its commitment to high priority expenditure in education, health and other areas adverse fluctuations can only be managed by cuts in other budget programs, borrowings or tax increases.

Those are not my words, that was the Treasury advice to the Government. That advice says that unless things change, there will need to be cuts in other budget programs, borrowings or tax increases. No wonder business is going elsewhere. It is worthwhile outlining some opportunities lost to other States: Foxtel customer services is moving to Melbourne, resulting in the loss of 1,000 jobs; Westpac has moved its $200 million loan centre to South Australia; Bankers Trust established a new regional operations site in Adelaide; Cathay Pacific national headquarters has been moved to Melbourne; Esso moved from Sydney to Melbourne; and Schweppes made Melbourne its regional headquarters.

Other international companies which are establishing regional headquarters in Melbourne include Air International; Campbells Soups; Chiquita Foods, which moved to Victoria from Auckland; L. M. Ericsson, which established its research and development facilities in Melbourne; Hella, VDO and Oracle. Some recent investors establishing in Melbourne include Hakubaku, a Japanese food- processing company, which announced an $18 million Udon noodle manufacturing plant in Ballarat; General Motors and Cerebos, which moved from Parkes to Victoria because the Victorian Government has successfully created a major food- processing centre in central Victoria at the expense of New South Wales.

Today talks were held to try to save the Edgell cannery at Cowra, in the central west. A group of local farmers wished to take over that cannery, but the productivity from that and another cannery that was subsequently built in the same town but which closed down will now benefit Victoria. Victoria has done New South Wales like a dinner. New South Wales is losing, because it is not only failing to attract new business but is losing existing business. I seek an extension of time.

Mr ACTING-SPEAKER (Mr Mills): Order! Standing Order 118 does not allow for extensions of time. However, the Leader of the National Party will have an opportunity to speak in reply for five minutes.

Mr ARMSTRONG: There is a desperate need to revitalise the Government’s activities. That is one
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reason that the Opposition supports the honourable member for Port Jackson becoming the next Minister for rural New South Wales; we want somebody who has some imagination and wants to get out and do things. We do not want another old hack like the honourable member for Clarence should he get the job. [Time expired.]

Ms NORI (Port Jackson) [12.37 p.m.]: It is a pity that the Leader of the National Party is the only member of the coalition to be in the Chamber during his contribution. I am glad that the Opposition acknowledges that the people of New South Wales think that the Labor Government has created a surge in development throughout the State. At least we agree about one thing, but I am amazed that the Leader of the National Party would move a motion like this. His party claims to represent the bush. However, all of the projects mentioned in this motion are in Sydney - in fact, they are all in my electorate. How kind of the Leader of the National Party to work so hard for my electorate, but what a pity about the bush.

It is no wonder that Government members come across so many people from the regions who are disillusioned with the National Party. The Leader of the National Party did not consider one project in the bush to be worthy of mention. Since I became Parliamentary Secretary for Small Business I have made dozens of visits to the regions, and they have not been social visits. The Government has hosted consular visits and trade delegations to promote regional development initiatives, launched new investments, and taken part in seminars, conferences and local business meetings to highlight the diversity of skills, products and opportunities in regional New South Wales. The State Government has been working to get people partnered and linked so that new business initiatives and investment can take off, or be retained, in the State.

I will admit that the Government’s task in the regions has not been easy because the Howard Government has cut, slashed and burnt the services and programs that were the lifeblood of the National Party’s supposed heartland. The Leader of the National Party should be attacking the Howard Government as hard as Government members have been. The Leader of the National Party would be doing that if he cared about the people of the bush and the people of this State, but he does not care. Under the Howard-Costello team Australia has taken an effective $300 million cut in regional development, and by next year the cut will be $450 million. Less than $1 for each person in New South Wales is left in the Federal Government regional budget. Those figures show where the interests of the Howard Government lie, and they are not with the people the National Party claims to represent.

I shall detail a few of the measures the Government has put in place to achieve a productive partnership with the people of New South Wales. The Government has set up a special unit in the Department of State and Regional Development to make sure that businesses throughout the State understand the economic opportunities of the 2000 Olympics. It is holding Olympics business opportunities seminars across the State to let businesses know the details of Olympics tendering. The Government is working with private enterprise, through the Olympics Business Roundtable, on a range of problems to help companies reap the benefits from the Games. That work includes bringing 200 business leaders from the world’s top companies to New South Wales, including the regions, so that they know about the diversity of exporting and export-ready firms in this State with which they can do business.

The Government is also showcasing Australian high-tech industry around the world in an intensive campaign in the lead-up to the Olympics, and beyond. It has established a web site so that visiting business people can make a "virtual" visit to the regions if they cannot go there in person. The result for regional companies is that so far regional New South Wales has won more than $70 million worth of Olympic-related projects - and that figure is growing all the time. As part of the Government’s regional partnership with business, it has placed 12 Agribusiness advisers throughout the State and is putting five experienced export advisers out there as well, to help regional businesses to sell their products overseas, diversify, grow and employ more people.

The Government is setting the climate for New South Wales to do business, and already the economic figures show the results. The State economy has performed strongly in the past year, in spite of the Howard Government’s national economic environment. As at June 1997 this State’s unemployment rate was one of Australia’s lowest. New South Wales exports have had strong growth during the year, with merchandise exports increasing by more than 6.2 per cent. Substantial expenditure has also been made on investment - it is up by more than 6.8 per cent. That means that the State economy has expanded, with the gross State product increasing by 3 per cent in the year. I should have expected the Leader of the National Party to be hanging his head in shame at what is going on with the Howard Government in Canberra.

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Honourable members should consider the deal on regional telecommunications infrastructure the people of New South Wales received from the Federal Government. All honourable members know about the Regional Telecommunications Infrastructure Fund - RTIF - the slush fund set up by the Howard Government to get the support of Senator Harradine and Senator Colston for the sale of Telstra. What was the story on that? The people of regional and rural New South Wales were short-changed by $40 million in that grubby deal. Of the total $250 million package, Tasmania gets $58 million - more than $207 per head of population living in rural and regional areas in that State. Queensland gets $53.1 million - more than $30 per head in the rural and regional areas. What happened for New South Wales, thanks to Howard and Costello? Rural and regional New South Wales gets just $37.4 million, which amounts to $19 per head. What a sleazy deal!

What did the Leader of the National Party do about that? He just rolled over, he just let the Federal Government do that. Honourable members should consider what happened in Lachlan, the electorate of the Leader of the National Party. Based on population, the central west should have received almost $7 million. However, it was short-changed and received just over $3 million. New England and the north-west missed out on $3.9 million; the Riverina missed out on $3.1 million; the Murray missed out on $2.4 million - the list goes on. The National Party should be ashamed; it has not stood up for its people. National Party members should be protecting their electorates from the hits they have taken under the Howard Government, rather than moving petulant motions such as this.

In contrast, the State Government continues to provide better services for the people of New South Wales, in spite of all the cuts inflicted by the Howard Government in health, education and other areas. The New South Wales State Government is still pushing ahead. What happened with the sugar industry? The National Party deserted the north coast and stood by while the Howard Government supported the takeover of the New South Wales sugar industry by Queensland. That has been the style of the National Party all the way along - National Party members sit there, roll over and do nothing. Luckily, the people in the bush have a State Government, if not an Opposition, that cares about what happens to them. The range of measures put in place by the Government has helped bring about - as was so kindly put by the Leader of the National Party - a surge in development in New South Wales.

The Leader of the National Party is wrong in thinking that the Government claims all of the credit for the surge in development. The Government has enlisted this State’s business people as its partners and allies in growing the New South Wales economy, and business people have responded magnificently. A cultural change is taking place in regional New South Wales. Many regional businesses now realise that they do not have to be big and they do not have to be located in the city to export. The Government has set up the innovators web site to encourage innovators from all over New South Wales to keep in touch with information about venture capital, patents and so on, to help them make their ventures commercial. The Government has run Olympic seminars. It has encouraged regional businesses to tender for Olympic Games construction and other work, and it is succeeding.

The Government has run seminars in the bush on infrastructure for telecommunications, trying to make sure that the businesses in the bush understand the value of electronic commerce and using the Internet for finance and banking purposes. The Government is trying to get to the bush the message that one has to be on line or out of business. It appointed five export advisers to try to help farmers diversify, export their product, make more profit and employ more people. That is what it is all about and that is what the Government has been doing. The Leader of the National Party can put up his little list of achievements - which are all in my electorate - until the cows come home, but the runs are on the board and it is this Government that scored them, not the failed coalition. The Leader of the National Party is reflecting on past glories, but he is in opposition now. This Government has a record that it can be proud of - and watch out, because there is more to come.

Mr SCULLY (Smithfield - Minister for Roads, Minister for Public Works and Services, Minister for Ports, Assistant Minister for Energy, and Assistant Minister for State and Regional Development) [12.47 p.m.]: I thank the honourable member for Coffs Harbour for yielding to me. I am somewhat astounded that the Leader of the National Party should refer to Walsh Bay. As Minister for Public Works and Services I have a strong interest in and responsibility for managing Walsh Bay. I remind the House of the sad story of Walsh Bay under the administration of the Greiner and Fahey governments. In moving this motion the Leader of the National Party has engaged in Stalinist, revisionist history. It is necessary to correct the
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record lest anyone believe the fantasy of the National Party that the former, discredited Government was responsible for the decision to develop Walsh Bay. The record must be set straight, but I do not have to rely on someone’s recollection: it will be enough if I quote from a 1994 report of the Property Services Group entitled "Walsh Bay - Future Directions". The report stated:

Proposals for the disposal and major redevelopment of Walsh Bay were originally instigated by the MSB in 1985 using a competitive tender process.

That was under the previous Labor Government. The Leader of the National Party expects honourable members to believe that Walsh Bay was an initiative of the former Government. He wants this House to commend him for facilitating Walsh Bay. What did the former Government actually do to facilitate the Walsh Bay redevelopment? When the Greiner Government came to office the Maritime Services Board tender process for Walsh Bay was almost completed. The coalition inherited a process. It changed that process, but the changes led to the Independent Commission Against Corruption. The 1994 report of the Property Services Group also stated:

The ICAC investigation has identified substantial evidence of irregularities in the actions of public officials involved in the tender. The irregularities commenced when the Department of State Development became involved in the assessment of tenders and negotiations on the lease of Walsh Bay.

What the Independent Commission Against Corruption inquiry established was that the new Government had selected two of the tenderers and set up a bidding war. This bidding war was contrary to the rules of the tender, it was contrary to accepted standards of probity and it resulted ultimately in Walsh Bay, like so much of New South Wales, lying fallow for the entire life of the Greiner Government. The sad story of the mismanagement of Walsh Bay by the former Government does not stop there. The irregularities identified by the ICAC included serious breaches of confidentiality which led to one of the tenderers learning of the other tenderer’s bid. The same financial adviser on the deal was used by the successful bidder and by the Department of State Development - a clear and appalling conflict of interest. The contract signed between the former Government and the selected developer allowed the developer to withdraw from the tender if it was not 100 per cent satisfied with the conditions of consent - also an appalling compromise of the independence of the planning process.

The ICAC report set out just how the tender process for the disposal of Walsh Bay should have proceeded and the Labor Government has rigorously followed that process. A probity auditor has been in place and the Independent Commission Against Corruption has been consulted regularly throughout the process to ensure that the number one priority of probity is followed. Honourable members should compare that to the disregard for probity, incompetence and mismanagement of the redevelopment of Walsh Bay by the former Government. Its tardy, shabby handling of Walsh Bay cost the redevelopment of this historic and important region of the city’s waterfront almost 10 years, during which time this important yet fragile heritage asset has deteriorated further. When the coalition came to office, the original tender was almost concluded. I am pleased to inform the House that in the very near future negotiations with the preferred developer will be concluded. The revised scheme for the redevelopment, which draws on proposals arising from the intervention of the Government Architect and the internationally acclaimed heritage architect, Phillipe Robert, will then be put before the Department of Urban Affairs and Planning and the Heritage Council.

I am reminded of a comment made to a colleague of mine by an Opposition frontbencher during an unguarded moment. He said, "It is only Labor governments that build the big things around the State. If you want to get on with things you need a Labor Government to do it." One only has to think of the Sydney Harbour Bridge, the Opera House, Darling Harbour, the Olympics site, the Pacific Highway and the Eastern Distributor. The list is a mile long. Whenever the big projects are involved, it is always a Labor Government that makes the tough decisions and gets the projects on the deck, constructed and opened. This motion is dishonest. The Liberal and National parties should congratulate the Government on its record on Walsh Bay and apologise for its own record. The Government should be congratulated on its record on the finger wharf and the $250 million in presales. That money is in the can and the project is on the way.

Mr Armstrong: You did not do that. You did not sell one unit. You had better ‘fess up.

Mr SCULLY: The motion is misleading and it should be rejected. [Time expired.]

Mr FRASER (Coffs Harbour) [12.52 p.m.]: I have great pleasure in supporting the motion of the Leader of the National Party. What honourable
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members have heard today is a great deal of rhetoric, firstly from the next aspirant for a frontbench position, the honourable member for Port Jackson, and secondly from the Minister for Public Works and Services. They have attempted to convince members of this House and the people of New South Wales that Labor was the instigator of projects that were put in place during seven years of coalition government. In the course of this debate we should be examining not what the Government claims to have done but what it has done in regional New South Wales. It has absolutely ruined development in country areas.

I will start with the timber industry. The Government came to office and bowed to a group of Greens. It did not examine the productivity of one of the most magnificent industries in New South Wales, an industry that renews itself and was being logged sustainably at the rate of 1 per cent. When Labor came to office it decided to close down the timber industry, with the subsequent loss of hundreds and hundreds of jobs in the bush, many of them in the electorate of Clarence. The honourable member for Clarence has remained silent on this issue, despite the loss of numerous jobs in Clarence. With the assistance of his colleagues from the Right, he has put himself forward as the next Minister in charge of regional development and growth in country areas. He knows what this Government has done in his electorate but he has kept his mouth closed.

Labor has ruined job prospects in Clarence. The list of developments set out in the motion moved by the Leader of the National Party - Walsh Bay, Woolloomooloo, the Sydney Harbour Casino, AT&T, Foxtel, American Express and the City West Development - were all initiatives of the former coalition Government. They were initiatives which had the support of business and would have given New South Wales a future. As the Leader of the National Party said only a few minutes ago, under Labor State Forests and the Department of Agriculture have been downgraded in country areas. In the electorate of Clarence the Grafton office of New South Wales Fisheries has now been downsized, New South Wales Agriculture has been downsized and the timber industry has been downsized. In the electorate of Clarence 400 NorthPower jobs have disappeared. The income from those 400 jobs supported the local stores, service stations and clubs, and the major stakeholders, such as Woolworths, who employ local people. The wages that were coming into the community each week have disappeared. As a result regional development in country areas is shrinking.

Small towns are crying out for assistance but, under Labor, the education office in Coffs Harbour has been closed, which will take even more jobs from the area. The Government has to look after Harry, so it has indicated it will relocate the education office to Grafton. But it is a smokescreen. One person, the Director of Schools for the region, has to take care of the needs of an area from Nambucca Heads almost to the Queensland border. As I said, 19 jobs in the education field have disappeared from Coffs Harbour. This Government has clearly signalled to regional New South Wales and to business that companies should not invest in New South Wales because they will receive no assistance from the Government. The Government is closing down country New South Wales. It is dumping on regional centres and downgrading hospital facilities and educational facilities in regional New South Wales.

This morning I spoke to my colleague from Broken Hill in another place, who told me that 22 TAFE jobs in the electorate of Broken Hill have been lost overnight. Labor has suggested that it is responsible for development in New South Wales when in fact it has been responsible for a lack of development. It is seeking the assistance of minority groups to stifle development in New South Wales. The Government is encouraging Jeff Kennett to pinch every major initiative from this State. Foxtel and 1,000 jobs have been lost to Melbourne: Westpac and a $200 million investment have been lost to South Australia; Bankers Trust and 300 jobs have been lost to Adelaide; Cathay Pacific has moved its headquarters to Melbourne; Schweppes has moved its regional headquarters to Melbourne; and Esso has moved to Melbourne. The list goes on and on. This Government is scaring business out of New South Wales. [Time expired.]

Pursuant to sessional orders business interrupted.

Motion by Ms Harrison agreed to:

That leave of absence be granted to the member for Ashfield on Thursday, 23 October 1997 on account of a subpoena to appear before the Special Commission of Inquiry being conducted by Commissioner Nader, QC.

Mr NAGLE (Auburn) [1.00 p.m.]: I wish to comment on the collation of evidence taken at the biannual visit to the Parliament of the Hon. B. S. J. O’Keefe, Commissioner, Independent Commission
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Against Corruption. The work of the Independent Commission Against Corruption in a delicate area of activity in our society is not easy, but under the leadership of Commissioner O’Keefe the commission does a fine job. There have been arguments in committee about formal process, as Commissioner O’Keefe would agree, but the Government fully supports the Independent Commission Against Corruption.

The collation of evidence is a result of the committee’s continuing work to monitor and review the operations of the ICAC. It could not be stated otherwise than that the ICAC is held to a high standard of accountability by the committee, as is evidenced in the collation of evidence before the House today. It contains written answers to questions put to the commission by the committee and the evidence of Commissioner O’Keefe at public hearings on Friday, 25 October 1996 and Tuesday, 17 December 1996. It was an interesting time when Commissioner O’Keefe was put through his paces by questions from committee members, in the full spirit of the obligations imposed upon the committee by section 64 of the Act. The collation of evidence is a record of the twelfth and thirteenth meetings between the committee and the ICAC Commissioner since the inception of the ICAC in 1989. It will, together with previous reports released by the committee, form the basis for the committee’s forthcoming full review of the operations of the ICAC.

Significant discussions were held in regard to operations Sturt, Talisman, Yabbie, Weave, Yalta, Sublime, Quantum and Visual. I am always fascinated how the ICAC thinks of these names for its dealing with allegations of corruption. For example, Operation Weave concerned the police air wing. Commissioner O’Keefe made an opening statement which reflected the work not only of the commissioner but also the staff of the ICAC, who should be congratulated on their hard work. In part, that opening statement reads:

Can I say that the year that has just passed has been the busiest year that the commission has had in its history. The unit productivity of individuals in the commission has been higher than at any previous time, this notwithstanding that the budget is lower and that the number of employees is lower than the peak of employees.

There are some negatives. The negatives may indicate that we have not been sufficiently effective in conveying our message as to the nature of the organisation, its scope, purpose and what its functions are. Could I refer in particular to an editorial in today’s Daily Telegraph. That editorial is a little like the curate’s egg. Part of it is right and good and part of it is very bad and quite wrong, wholly wrong, badly wrong and one wonders how anybody can get it so wrong.

Most people do not know that the ICAC is not a prosecuting body. The honourable member for Northcott would know from his experience as a member of the committee that the work of the ICAC is difficult. It is not popular work. It is a bit like the decision-making procession of politicians. There is always an up side and a down side. You cannot please all of the people all of the time. The work of the Independent Commission Against Corruption, particularly in professional education about corruption prevention, is important.

Because prevention is better than cure, young people have been targeted by the ICAC. They are the citizens and the decision makers of the future. The ICAC does a lot of wonderful work in the school system and universities in formulating projects and structuring education so that people will realise that there is no profit at the end of the rainbow through corruption. The ICAC has been most effective in tertiary and professional education. The poster competition in 1996, a resounding success for the ICAC, was hosted by Casula power house, and Parliament House exhibited the competition posters from 9 October to 25 October 1996. Over 500 entries from young people were submitted and the judges on the committee chose 45 finalists. That is the type of work the ICAC is doing, in addition to its investigations and public inquiries.

I will not go into all the detail of the work of the ICAC except to say that the collation of evidence and the accountability mechanisms are attended to twice a year at the request of members of Parliament. Committee meetings can be traumatic for anyone, including the Commissioner of the ICAC, but they are effective. The committee cannot interfere in operational matters or matters to do with the Operations Review Committee, but it looks at the functions and role of the ICAC. A review now taking place over the next 12 months will give insight into the community’s view of the ICAC. Our committee is working well with the ICAC in regard to that review.

I note that present in the gallery with the honourable member for St Marys are chief executive officers from a number of Northern Ireland councils, as well as representatives of the local enterprise development unit. They are: Mrs A. McGinley, Mr William Beattie, Mr N. Hardy, Mr J. McAllister, Mr N. McGuckin, Mr V. Eakin, Mr J. McKinney, Mr J. Sayers and Mr J. Doherty. Assisted as my ancestors were by the British to leave Ireland 150 years ago, never to see their homeland again, I am proud to be the first of their descendants to return there. I welcome our guests from Northern Ireland to the
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Parliament and hope they enjoy a delightful lunch and question time. I commend the collation of evidence to the House and hope that the committee will have further reports on the good work done by the Independent Commission Against Corruption.

Mr DEPUTY SPEAKER: I assure our guests that their names have not been written into the report on the Independent Commission Against Corruption, but they certainly will be recorded in Hansard.

Mr LYNCH (Liverpool) [1.08 p.m.]: I wish to comment on one of the matters the committee raised with the commissioner, and that is the issue of false and malicious complaints made to the commission. It is obviously important to encourage the reporting of reasonably held complaints and beliefs about corruption. There are very strong public policy grounds for that. There are equally strong public policy grounds for discouraging false and malicious complaints. The commissioner has noted the rise in the number of complaints received by the commission in the lead-up to and at the time of local council elections, State elections and Australian Labor Party preselections. More often than not, they are associated with the claim in the media that matters have been referred to the ICAC by the opponent of someone contesting an election or preselection. The aim is almost invariably to damage the candidate, regardless of the merits of the allegation, indeed usually in defiance of the merits of the claim.

There are a number of steps that I should have thought would be taken in relation to that. The response that strikes me as the most obvious would be to insert an additional provision in the legislation to make it an offence to make a false and malicious complaint to the ICAC. That is currently not a criminal offence. There seems to be strong public policy grounds for that to be the case. Another suggested course of action is for the commission to indicate it will not investigate any complaint that is made at the same time as a press release is made. That means that if there is an allegation of corruption - certainly if the complaint is founded and there are prosecutions arising therefrom - it ought to be made to the ICAC without the publicity that would naturally flow. It seems to me that course of action ought to be well and truly investigated. The committee is reviewing the Act and it seems to me those matters ought to be dealt with in some detail on that occasion.

Report noted.

Mr SHEDDEN (Bankstown) [1.10 p.m.]: The review of regulations report of the Regulation Review Committee concerns the most fundamental ground, that is, whether or not a regulation complies with the objects of the Act under which it was made, because if it fails to comply it is ultra vires and invalid. Early this year a delegation from the Regulation Review Committee attended the fourth Commonwealth conference on delegated legislation held at Parliament House, Wellington, New Zealand. The committee was surprised to find that the Regulation Review Committee of New Zealand, while having this term of reference, did not consider it in its examination of regulations but preferred instead to leave the entire matter to the courts.

The delegations from Australian committees were eager to respond that it is the starting point and that if the regulation is invalid there is no use considering other grounds until that issue is resolved. In the view of the Regulation Review Committee it would be impracticable to leave the entire matter to the courts as many regulations would be left in doubt until if and when it is litigated. Although in a technical sense it could be said that if the regulation is invalid the committee has nothing to consider as the purported regulation is invalid from the start, practically a court judgment is required to conclusively establish invalidity as it is often a matter on which there are differing legal opinions.

Indeed, the Compensation Court rule referred to in the report demonstrates that court rules can be found to be invalid by a committee. When the committee considered the rule it noted that it conferred on the court the power to make practice notes which prevail over court rules to the extent of any inconsistency. The committee wrote to Justice M. W. Campbell, Chief Judge of the Compensation Court, stating that it is a form of sub-delegation which would have to be authorised by the enabling Compensation Court Act 1984 before it could legally be made.

The committee also stated that the rule did not include an explanatory note although such notes have been adopted for some time by rule committees of the Supreme and District courts. The committee accordingly requested the inclusion of explanatory notes in future cases. The Chief Judge of the Compensation Court responded and said that the rule
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committee may have too readily assumed that it could adopt similar provisions in the Supreme Court and District Court rules. The chief judge advised that the rule committee was of the view that the validity of the amendments conferring the power to make practice notes which prevail over court rules is questionable and that it would undertake a general review of the rules and the practice notes and will probably delete the rule. The rule committee also agreed to include explanatory notes with rules that are not self-explanatory.

The view of the Regulation Review Committee has always been that if there is doubt about the validity of a regulation it is in the Minister’s ultimate interest to amend or repeal it and start to redraft again at an early stage before any substantive obligations are imposed or benefits are gained. Otherwise the Minister runs the risk that in later years the regulation will be found to be defective when challenged in the court, thereby causing greater harm to persons who organise their affairs in accordance with its provisions. When the committee considered the Institute of Sport (Sporting Development Advisory Committee) Regulation 1995, it was pleased to find that Parliamentary Counsel supports the committee’s view that as the validity of the relevant clause is one that can legitimately be the subject of varying views, and that arguments can reasonably be mounted against its validity, the clause should be repealed.

The committee noted that clause 10 cannot apply to certain Acts to make a special provision for the members of the Sporting Development Advisory Committee. It was identical in this respect to clause 8, schedule 1 to the Act, which did not apply to the Acts. While an Act cannot apply to other earlier Acts, a regulation cannot do that unless it is enabled by an Act to do so. That was not so in the present case and therefore the regulation was invalid. The committee drew to the attention of the Minister the invalidity in clause 10 and requested a further opinion of Parliamentary Counsel or independent legal advice.

Parliamentary Counsel advised that there was a persuasive argument for the validity of the clause in that it does no more than declare the intentions of the Act. Parliamentary Counsel nevertheless appreciated the validity of the clause can legitimately be the subject of varying views, and that arguments can reasonably be mounted against such validity. Parliamentary Counsel was of the view that the clause should be repealed, given that there is room for such arguments and that the purposes to which the clause is directed are minor.

The Minister informed the committee that on the basis of that advice she had decided to repeal clause 10. The committee previously expressed its concern about the difficult position in which Parliamentary Counsel is placed, having to provide Government with the initial advice on the validity of regulations as well as any subsequent advice when that validity is questioned. The Crown Solicitor recently advised the committee that that has been the practice for some considerable time with respect to subordinate legislation. My committee can see no logical reason for distinguishing between primary and subordinate legislation in this respect. I commend the report.

Mr RIXON (Lismore) [1.17 p.m.]: I also commend the report. It is fair to say that there are very few cases of a committee reporting its concerns about the validity of regulations. One of the main concerns of the committee is the standard of compliance with the Subordinate Legislation Act. Last week the committee looked at the preliminary results for the staged repeal program under the Subordinate Legislation Act in respect of the principal statutory rules in stage 12 of the program. Those principal statutory rules were published between 2 September 1996 and 1 September 1997.

The words "principal statutory rule" mean a statutory rule that contains provisions apart from direct amendments, repeals and provisions that deal with its citation and commencement. Many of the new rules required the preparation of regulatory impact statements under the procedures in the Subordinate Legislation Act. The initial results of the committee’s evaluation indicate that compliance with these procedures was generally poor, except in respect of the public consultation requirement. The committee was not alone in believing that compliance was generally poor.

The committee also found that the Commonwealth Industry Commission, in a report entitled "Regulation and Its Review 1996-97", stated that there was poor compliance by Commonwealth departments with their longstanding regulatory impact statement - RIS - requirements. The requirement is primarily in respect of bills at the Commonwealth level. But it is almost the reverse situation in New South Wales where an RIS is required only for regulations. That will change under the legislative instruments legislation. The Federal Government will require an RIS for regulations.

The Industry Commission report makes several recommendations for improving the standard of regulatory impact statements. The commission
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recommends that the Federal Government require all departments to consult the Office of Regulation Review as soon as a regulation is raised as an option in policy development. Such consultation is considered a necessary first step in a logical sequence of events that lead to a satisfactory compliance record. The report states that if departments consult early in the policy development process they are likely to assemble better-quality information, be well placed to fulfil the appropriate RIS requirements and, more importantly, adopt better regulations. I am sure our committee will be looking at equally innovative ways of improving the process in this State.

Ms HALL (Swansea) [1.20 p.m.]: As the committee chairman has indicated, this report concerns our review of regulations on the most fundamental ground of whether they comply with the objects of the Acts under which they are made. I chaired the Regulation Review Committee delegation that attended the Fourth Commonwealth Conference on Delegated Legislation in February in New Zealand, which is referred to in the report. The Chairman of the New Zealand Regulations Review Committee, the Rt Honourable Jonathan Hunt, MP, informed us that his committee makes a distinction between whether a regulation is ultra vires and whether a regulation accords with the general objects of the Act under which it was made.

The New Zealand committee sees the former issue as being exclusively one for the courts as only a court has the power to legally determine the issue. However, with respect to the other issue, Mr Hunt informed us that his committee has power under Standing Order 197(2)(a) to review regulations on the ground of whether they accord with the general objects and intentions of the Act under which they are made, and has often examined regulations on that basis. Mr Hunt acknowledges that the two issues are close but believes they should be kept distinct as the committee has no power to invalidate a regulation.

I think Australian committees take the view that the two issues are inextricably linked. While they clearly have no power to determine the issue of validity in a legal sense - and none have asserted that they do - their job is to consider regulations and express their opinion to the Minister and Parliament on the regulation. As this report states, our committee’s view has always been that if there is doubt about the validity of a regulation it is in the Minister’s ultimate interest to amend or repeal it and start again at an early stage before any substantive obligations are imposed or benefits are gained; otherwise the Minister runs the risk that in later years the regulation will be found defective when formally challenged in the courts and thereby cause greater harm to persons who have organised their affairs in accordance with its provisions.

The position under the New South Wales Regulation Review Act is perhaps clearer than the position in New Zealand as we have two separate terms of reference which concern compliance with the enabling Act. The first is section 9(1)(b)(iii), which requires us to consider whether the regulation may not have been within the general objects of the legislation under which it was made. The second is section 9(1)(b)(iv), which requires us to consider whether the regulation may not accord with the spirit of the legislation under which it was made even though it may have been legally made. I think that by implication from the words used in the second term, the first term clearly requires the committee to express its view on whether the regulation was legally made.

Last week we were informed of the death of Professor Douglas Whalan. Many members and former members of the Regulation Review Committee will remember Professor Whalan, who regularly attended our national committee conferences and made many learned contributions to our debates. Indeed, I believe he was at the forefront of the debate on the ultra vires issue which arose at the Fourth Commonwealth Conference on Delegated Legislation, to which I previously referred. Professor Whalan was emeritus professor of law at the Australian National University and legal adviser to the Senate Standing Committee on Regulations and Ordinances for 15 years. He also advised the Senate Scrutiny of Bills Committee and the Australian Capital Territory Scrutiny of Bills and Subordinate Legislation Committee. He was a tireless worker in the scrutiny of legislation and he will be sorely missed.

Report noted.

Mr STEWART (Lakemba) [1.25 p.m.]: The first interim report entitled "Alternative Methods of Providing for the Needs of Victims of Crime" was tabled in the House on 29 May 1997. The committee was established in November 1996 and was given two main tasks: first, to examine and assess alternative services for victims of crime; and, second, to inquire into the long-term financial
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viability of the Victims Compensation Fund. The first interim report represents the committee’s findings regarding alternative methods of providing for the victims of crime in New South Wales. The scheme was changed in November 1996 to make it more cost effective and efficient and, importantly, to recognise the fundamental need to assist genuine victims of crime through front-line support services. Previously the scheme had been criticised by the New South Wales Auditor-General for being overly generous and open to rorting.

Concern had been expressed for many years, by both the Auditor-General and Treasury, about the rapidly escalating liabilities of the scheme, which are projected to reach almost $200 million by 2000. During the course of the inquiry the committee received 26 written submissions. Oral evidence was taken from 19 individuals and agencies representing the broad spectrum of services for victims of crime at public hearings held during April and May of 1997. Further, in May 1997 a delegation of the committee travelled to Melbourne, Adelaide and Perth to examine and assess comparative schemes in those jurisdictions. This study tour provided an invaluable source of information for the inquiry. In particular, the delegation was impressed with the Western Australian Victims Support Service within its Ministry of Justice and the Western Australian Police Service victims of crime unit.

This inquiry revealed that the Government was on the right track when it changed its focus last year away from merely concentrating on lump sum payments towards providing front-line victims support services. During this inquiry the committee received an overwhelming amount of evidence to the effect that providing lump sum financial compensation to victims of crime is not necessarily the optimum way to assist victims in their recovery. In order to rehabilitate victims who have been adversely affected by a crime, a variety of support services are needed, in particular counselling services. Further, these services must be quickly and easily accessed by victims. The committee found that the range of counselling and other support services that currently exist within both the public and private sectors for victims of crime in New South Wales are somewhat fragmented, spanning a variety of ministerial portfolios, with a tendency either to be generic or to specialise in areas such as domestic violence and sexual assault.

Among its conclusions the committee found also that counselling and debriefing services could most effectively be provided by the public service, with the private sector making up the shortfall. Co-ordination of all services catering for victims of crime is needed. The committee recommended that an interdepartmental committee be established between the Victims of Crime Bureau and key government sector agencies to regularly provide input to the bureau on co-ordination of service issues and to identify areas of deficiency. It was also found that the New South Wales Police Service had not at that time dedicated sufficient resources to victims of crime. The committee made certain recommendations for reform to the Police Service. It recommended, first, establishment of a centralised victims of crime assistance unit; second, provision of specialised human resources available within each local area command; and, third, provision of appropriate victim-focused training.

I am pleased to report that last Thursday the Victims of Crime Bureau launched business cards to be distributed by police officers to victims of crime. These cards contain information about the charter of victims rights and the Victims of Crime Bureau. The police play a crucial role in the provision of information to victims as they are usually the first point of contact following a crime. These cards will assist the police in pointing victims of crime in the right direction, that is, towards the provision of relevant available services. However, within the Police Service jurisdiction for victim support still heavily relies on the commitment of each local area commander. There is still a need for a centralised approach, rather than the ad hoc approach taken at the moment. I was pleased that a police representative, Commander Lola Scott, was appointed to the Victims Advisory Committee. Knowing Lola’s background and commitment, I am sure that she will focus on the provision of services through the Police Service to victims of crime.

As has been stated, the committee intends to submit a second report to this House in December 1997. In this report the committee will consider the financial aspects of the victims compensation scheme. For that reason, all comments made in the first report concerning the enhancement of existing services and provision of additional services will be subject to the findings of the second report. In anticipation of this inquiry, yesterday I tabled in this House a survey of victims compensation cost-saving measures in other jurisdictions. That survey canvasses a number of ideas for containing predicted cost escalation in the Victims Compensation Fund or decreasing the fund’s reliance on consolidated revenue. That will be a great starting point for the committee’s future inquiry. I take this opportunity to thank the committee members and the secretariat for their efforts and support in the production of committee’s first report. I particularly thank Sally Girgis and the committee director, Catherine
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Watson, who have shown great diligence and a strong commitment to the deliberations of the committee and its work in support of the victims of crime.

Mr PEACOCKE (Dubbo) [1.32 p.m.]: At the outset of my contribution I congratulate the honourable member for Lakemba, Tony Stewart, who has been a very able chairman of the Joint Select Committee on Victims Compensation. The first interim report of the committee, which was issued in May, was the result of a number of wide-ranging deliberations which have already been referred to by the chairman of the committee. I want to concentrate on recommendations one and two of the report. Those recommendations deal with counselling services, which have been singularly lacking to date in relation to victims compensation in New South Wales. The submission of one of the witnesses who appeared before the inquiry, Gary Morton, consulting psychologist, appears in appendix 2 to the report. His submission gives some of the background to the importance of counselling. He said:

The major problem with the current system is that in the legitimate case, I have always recommended that the victim receive counselling to assist them to rationalise their role in their trauma. Invariably however, the victim rarely receives such counselling. Often, a lack of counselling is due to the poor financial state of the victim or the Solicitor who has received the report has not informed the victim of the need for counselling. Also, some victims simply could not be bothered with counselling. I have often been involved with medico/legal ‘updates’ for victims that I have seen years previously but who have never received counselling. Such people often present with the same problematic behaviour as they did during the initial consultation. It has also been disturbing to note that many of the victims have in fact deteriorated due to not receiving such counselling.

He also said:

I submit that there is a far more productive and less costly method of handling victims compensation matters, especially when the injury has caused psychological disturbances.

Counselling is a vital part of the process of getting victims of crime back to a normal state of mind and normal health. During a recent trip overseas with the chairman and Catherine Watson I was interested to look at the programs which are in force in the United Kingdom. Those programs are quite outstanding. There are some 400 victim support groups throughout the United Kingdom, they are voluntary, and they have a sophisticated method of training their personnel. They are required by law to respond quickly to the victims of crime, and in many ways they appear to achieve dramatic results.

The victims of crime who spoke to the committee in the early stages of its deliberations showed a clear lack of any significant support. This report makes it clear that cash compensation is simply not the answer. That will become clearer from subsequent reports. The United Kingdom system has two aspects. When we attended a conference in Amsterdam on victimology which was attended by representatives from countries all around the world it became clear to us that counselling victims of crime can do more harm than good if the personnel who give the counselling are not properly trained. The United Kingdom program, although voluntary, has very good basic training and organisational systems. The program is funded to some extent by the Home Office in the United Kingdom. It receives between 8 million and 12 million pounds a year for the overall operation of its services.

I mention that matter because the time has now come for us to stop believing that the victims of crime can be simply compensated with cash. That is not so. The most pressing need is first-class counselling. That is the quickest way to get victims of crime over the trauma they have suffered. That should not be done solely by professionals, whose services are costly, but by volunteers who have a genuine concern for victims of crime and who have been trained in counselling. Counselling will achieve a much more effective result. Indeed, such organisations will soon be established in my electorate in the hope that those who have suffered great trauma from crime can be assisted. I commend the report to the House and once again I congratulate all members of the committee for their sterling work.

Report noted.

[Mr Deputy-Speaker left the chair at 1.37 p.m. The House resumed at 2.15 p.m.]

Mr CARR: I advise honourable members that during the absence of the Minister for Police during question time, due to his attendance at the Nader inquiry, I will answer all questions on his behalf.

Petitions praying that the office of Governor of New South Wales not be downgraded, and that the role, duties and future of the office be determined by a referendum, received from Mr Blackmore, Mr Brogden, Mr Collins, Mr Debnam, Mr Downy,
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Ms Ficarra, Mr Glachan, Mr Hartcher, Mr Hazzard, Mr Humpherson, Dr Kernohan, Mr Kerr, Mr MacCarthy, Mr Merton, Mr O’Doherty, Mr O’Farrell, Mr Phillips, Mr Photios, Mr Richardson, Mr Rozzoli, Mr Schipp, Mr Schultz, Mrs Skinner, Mr Smith and Mr Tink.

Petition praying that the maternity ward and birthing centre at Camden District Hospital be retained, and that the hospital be retained as a general hospital, received from Dr Kernohan.

Petition praying that Ryde Hospital and its services be retained, received from Mr Tink.

Petition praying that adequate health services be maintained in the Orange area, received from Mr R. W. Turner.

Petition praying that, in line with the Inspector General’s report of 1993, permanent dedicated police officers be retained at police and community youth clubs, received from Mr Beck.

Petition praying that Riverwood police station not be closed or downgraded, received from Ms Ficarra.

Petition praying for extra funding for capital works at Gloucester Public School, received from Mr J. H. Turner.

Petition praying that telecommunication carriers not be allowed to erect transmission structures within close proximity to residential homes, schools, child-care centres, hospitals, and aged care centres, received from Mr Brogden.

Petition praying that the draft plan of management for Cudgen Nature Reserve be varied to ensure the continued use of Cudgen Lake and North Cabarita Beach for existing recreational purposes, the improvement of the tidal flow into Cudgen Lake, and the removal of recent reed growth from Cudgen Lake; or, that Cudgen Lake and the portion of North Cabarita Beach east of the Coast Road that is sandmined be removed from Cudgen Nature Reserve, received from Mr Beck.

Mr Shedden, as Chairman, tabled report No. 11 entitled "Report upon Regulations", dated October 1997.

Ordered to be printed.

Mr Nagle, as Chairman, tabled the report entitled "A Draft Code of Conduct for Members of the Legislative Assembly", dated October 1997.

Ordered to be printed.

Mr Nagle, as Chairman, tabled a collation of evidence of the Commissioner of the Independent Commission Against Corruption, the Hon. B. S. J. O’Keefe, AM, QC, on general aspects of the commission’s operations, dated October 1997.

Ordered to be printed.

Motion by Dr Refshauge, on behalf of Mr Whelan, agreed to:

That the following papers be printed:

Statement of Corporate Intent for the Hunter Water Corporation for the year ended 30 June 1998
Statement of Corporate Intent for Sydney Water for the year ended 30 June 1998
Report of Actual Findings on the Stadium Australia-Olympic Park, Homebush Bay Summary of Contracts for the Olympic Co-ordination Authority, dated 4 August 1997
Report by the Olympic Co-ordination Authority entitled "Stadium Australia-Olympic Park, Homebush Bay Summary of Contracts," dated July 1997

Page 1373

The Fifteenth Report of the New South Wales Treasury Corporation for the year ended 30 June 1997
Report of the Independent Pricing and Regulatory Tribunal of New South Wales on Bulk Water Prices from 1 July 1997, dated September 1997
1995-96 Report on the New South Wales Government’s Implementation of Responses to the Recommendations of the Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody, Volume 1
1995-96 Report on the New South Wales Government’s Implementation of Responses to the Recommendations of the Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody, Volume 2
Report No. 81 of the New South Wales Law Reform Commission entitled "Review of the Adoption of Children Act 1965 (NSW)", dated March 1997
Report of the New South Wales Drug Offensive Foundation for the year ended 30 June 1997
Report of the New South Wales Health Foundation for the year ended 30 June 1997

[Notices of Motions]

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Wakehurst to order. I call the honourable member for Wakehurst to order for the second time.

Mr SPEAKER: I welcome to the Parliament a number of senior local government authority managers from Northern Ireland who have joined us in the gallery today.

Mr COLLINS: My question is addressed to the Premier. At a time when his police reforms are supposed to be rebuilding service morale and addressing community concerns about law and order, does he agree with his Treasurer’s comments that police are bastards?

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Northcott to order. I call the Deputy Leader of the National Party to order.

Mr CARR: All of us who know the equable -

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Georges River to order. I call the honourable member for Davidson to order.

Mr CARR: All of us who know the Treasurer for his equable temperament, his rhetorical restraint and his measured tones would have been incredulous, simply unbelieving, of newspaper reports that he used the language used by the Leader of the Opposition which it is beyond me to repeat. Those who might be tempted to believe, against all of the evidence of character and personality, that he would use such language -

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Hawkesbury to order. I place the honourable member for Eastwood on two calls to order. I place the honourable member for Lake Macquarie on three calls to order.

Mr CARR: Let him speak for himself; he does such a good job of it.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I place the honourable member for Eastwood on three calls to order. I call the honourable member for Ku-ring-gai to order.

Mr CARR: What an excitable frontbench the Opposition has. In the whole of October, 10 press releases have been issued by the 20-strong Opposition frontbench. Not only that, but the one item of publicity gained by the Leader of the Opposition relates to his call for a withdrawal of all members of Parliament undertaking overseas trips. The only Opposition member overseas is the honourable member for Murrumbidgee -

Mr Collins: On a point of order. It is obvious that the Premier did not hear or understand the question. Does he agree with his Treasurer that the police are bastards? That is what I have asked. The Premier should answer the question.

Mr CARR: As I was pointing out, to the satisfaction of all sensible members, those who could bring themselves - against all the evidence of personality and character - to believe even momentarily a report in today’s press about such remark would nonetheless have been reassured by the report of the instant, unqualified and unreserved withdrawal of it by the Treasurer, as it should have been.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the Leader of the National Party to order.

Mr CARR: There Opposition members sit, after two weeks of a parliamentary sitting, with only 10 press releases -

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Ermington to order. I call the Leader of the National Party to order for the second time.

Page 1374

Mr CARR: The Leader of the Opposition has called for a withdrawal of all members of Parliament from overseas. The only Opposition member overseas is the honourable member for Murrumbidgee -

Mr Hunter: Where is he?

Mr CARR: He is lost in Africa - last sighted at a Zambian border post trying to exchange a poster of Babe for a ticket to Cape Town.

Mr ARMSTRONG: My question is addressed to the Premier. Did five men under the influence of drugs and alcohol raid the Emerton youth recreation centre on 28 August and indecently assault supervisor Katrina Oliver? Why is it that despite three calls to the police - including one made when the men returned and tried to kick down the doors, threatening to assault staff - the police never arrived?

Mr CARR: It is easy to determine the Opposition’s line of questioning: the Leader of the Opposition talks about a disgraceful attack on the Police Service, and then the Leader of the National Party comes up with a slanderous attack on the Police Service, alleging faulty response. He does not know the facts of the case.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Strathfield to order. The Leader of the Opposition will remain silent.

Mr CARR: The Leader of the National Party has based his question, no doubt, on an anecdotal report.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for The Hills to order. I call the honourable member for The Hills to order for the second time.

Mr CARR: He seeks, no doubt, to traduce the reputation of police officers -

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Georges River to order for the second time.

Mr CARR: - who in their difficult duties are bearing up in the front line in defence of the entire community. I should have thought that, in circumstances such as those, the police in their difficult assignment would have had the support of all members of the House.

Mr SULLIVAN: What details can the Minister for Education and Training provide of the outcome of the 1997 basic skills test in our schools?

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Ku-ring-gai to order for the second time.

Mr AQUILINA: Making sure that students learn and acquire good literacy and numeracy skills at an early age is an essential task of schooling. Getting the basics and building on those foundations are crucial to securing future educational, job and life opportunities. Building the foundations so that students can acquire the skills to progress through school and in turn be able to obtain employment and participate fully in the community is the highest priority of the Government’s educational agenda. This Government is providing more support, more funding and more assistance than ever before in its drive to improve literacy and numeracy levels.

I remind the House that this year’s State budget provided a record $4,200 million for school education, an increase of $228 million or 5.8 per cent on last year. Demonstrating the Government’s commitment to improving literacy and numeracy, this year it allocated $60 million, an increase of 20 per cent, for the State literacy strategy. The strategy includes funding for 300 specialist reading recovery teachers to work with year 1 students. It includes implementing a revised K-6 English syllabus with renewed focus on traditional grammar, spelling and writing. It includes additional support for primary and secondary teachers, the introduction of the English language and literacy assessment in year 7 and the basic skills test for year 3 and year 5. The internationally renowned basic skills test is a central element of the State literacy strategy. I am pleased to be able to release today the document Building the Foundations - The Report of the 1977 Basic Skills Test.

Mr O’Doherty: Only after we asked for it.

Mr AQUILINA: The honourable member for Ku-ring-gai is completely irrelevant to this whole issue and completely irrelevant to the educational needs of New South Wales. If he thinks that the Government produced this report in response to his request seven days ago, he has greater expectations of what the Government is able to produce than the Government does.

Mr Rumble: He couldn’t pass a spelling test.

Page 1375

Mr AQUILINA: The honourable member for Ku-ring-gai could not pass a spelling or a grammar test. Today he had the hide to issue a press release -

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Ermington to order for the second time.

Mr AQUILINA: His press release is headed "Now it’s ‘no frills’ reports and gobbledegook for parents". He spelt "gobbledegook" correctly, I must admit.

Mr O’Doherty: On a point of order. For the edification of honourable members, I ask the Minister to table the document.

Mr AQUILINA: The opening statement of the document, under the heading "Stephen O’Doherty MP, Shadow Minister for Education and Training, Member for Ku-ring-gai", reads:

Despite its promise to make more information available for parents on school performance, the Carr Government was delivering a ‘no-frills’ school report card which tried to pretend every was the school the same.

The honourable member for Ku-ring-gai must have come from the Wizard of Oz. This document was issued by the shadow minister for education, a person who cannot even write an opening sentence to his own press release. The rest of it is as unintelligible as the opening statement. As I indicated earlier, I am pleased to be able to release the report. It is entitled "Building the Foundations - The Report on the 1997 Basic Skills Test." It is a landmark report that sets the record straight on the State’s literacy and numeracy standards. The report, and the individual and school reports, provide parents, teachers and the community with more information than ever before. The results of the 1997 basic skills test shows students’ literacy and numeracy skills have significantly improved over the past two years.

The results also indicate that the vast majority of students are demonstrating achievement of the literacy and numeracy skills expected of them. The most significant finding in this year’s results is the evidence of considerable growth and development in students’ literacy and numeracy skills. These results, involving more than 120,000 students and in excess of 300,000 tests, completely debunk claims by the Federal Government of a literacy crisis and claims that as many as one-third of students are illiterate. That is what the Federal Government claimed: these tests show differently. Students have been measured against educationally sound and agreed standards or skill levels that have been clearly spelt out.

This process stands in stark contrast to the political stunt involving a very small sample of students with an arbitrary, unexplained and false benchmark undertaken by the Federal education Minister, Dr Kemp, earlier this year. Recent improvements to the basic skills testing program now enable us to monitor students’ BST results from two years ago, when they were in year 3, and compare those results with the tests they did earlier this year as year 5 students. What those results clearly indicate is that students’ literacy and numeracy skills have improved to high levels of achievement. More important, and more pleasing, is the evidence that those students identified in year 3 in 1995 as having the lowest skill levels and needing additional assistance have improved their literacy and numeracy skills the most. Of the students at the lowest skill level in year 3 two years ago, more than 91 per cent have progressed to competent and higher levels of literacy and numeracy, with 25 per cent moving to the highest levels. Of the remainder, the vast majority have shown growth but will require further intensive support.

The basic skills testing program is a vital tool the Government uses to assess what students can do, and to assist in monitoring student growth and progress over time. Critically, it provides parents and teachers with detailed information with which to plan teaching and learning strategies, particularly targeted programs for students needing special assistance. Unlike most other testing programs, it enables detailed reports to be prepared for parents and teachers on each students’ achievement on particular tasks. It also enables classroom, student groups and statewide data to be collected and analysed. The basic skills test allows parents and teachers to know what their child or student can do and to develop special targeted programs for those needing special assistance. Students or schools with large numbers of students needing additional assistance can be readily identified and immediate extra support and assistance can be provided.

This level of information, particularly data gathered over time indicating growth measured against educationally sound and agreed standards or skill levels, is considerably more useful than arbitrary scores or benchmarks. To date there is no parallel in Australia or elsewhere to date for the quality of tests, the amount of information provided and the size of the test population. These results prove the value of the testing. They also show that the intervention strategies being implemented by teachers and schools are working. The report and the results of the basic skills test enable parents, teachers and the Government to assess students’ achievement levels and to make well-informed
Page 1376
decisions about the allocation of resources and targeting of programs for students requiring additional assistance. While these results are promising and pleasing, we acknowledge that there is always room for further improvement. The Government remains committed to lifting the literacy and numeracy levels of all students.

Mr RUMBLE: My question without notice is directed to the Premier. What has been the effect of Federal Government funding cuts on jobs in New South Wales?

Mr CARR: All honourable members would have been prepared for the bad news out of Canberra about the impact of the Howard Government policies on jobs in the State, but none of us was prepared for the scale of the impact, especially in rural and regional New South Wales.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Coffs Harbour to order.

Mr CARR: I had entertained the hope that all honourable members of this House would have been united in deploring -

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the Deputy Leader of the National Party to order for the second time.

Mr CARR: - the heartlessness of the cuts made by the Commonwealth Government.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I place the honourable member for North Shore on two calls to order. I call the honourable member for Burrinjuck to order.

Mr CARR: Consider, for example, that a total of 28,700 jobs have been cut by the Commonwealth from the public sector in this State in just 14 months - 28,700 jobs between March last year and May this year. Jobs gone: employees sacked. But the impact in rural and regional New South Wales, as one would expect -

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Bega to order for the second time.

Mr CARR: - has been even more marked.

[Interruption]

What is the honourable member spluttering about? I have never seen him before. Who is he? Who is he pretending to represent? I have never heard him speak in a debate, let alone speak up for his community. Where is he from? Every month during the period of the Federal coalition Government -

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Lismore to order. I call the honourable member for Myall Lakes to order.

Mr CARR: Until now he has been like the corpse in Psycho: down in the fruit cellar, just sitting there.

Mr Hartcher: On a point of order. I would like to hear the Premier’s answer.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! No point of order is involved.

Mr Jeffery: On a point of order. The Premier is consistently and deliberately flouting Standing Order 105, which states that when a member has risen to take a point of order the member who was speaking shall be seated. The Premier deliberately turns his back and will not be seated. I ask you to instruct him to be seated.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! No point of order is involved. I call the honourable member for Murwillumbah to order.

Mr CARR: Every month 2,000 jobs have disappeared.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! All members who have been called to order are now on three calls to order.

Mr CARR: That means that, on average, every working day during this period more than 100 people in New South Wales who were formerly on the Commonwealth payroll were told, "Go away. You have not got a job." That contrasts with the policy of this Government, a Labor Government, which is that there will be no sackings from the pubic sector and no forced redundancies. This Government is transferring jobs to rural New South Wales and increasing the payrolls of police, teachers, and hospital and nursing workers.

Mr SPEAKER: I place the honourable member for Barwon on three calls to order.

Mr CARR: That is the kind of Government we are, in contrast to the Government that the Opposition put into office in Canberra. Let me deal with the impact on rural sectors. I presume there is a member for Lismore somewhere in the Chamber. I
Page 1377
have never heard of him or her. There is rumoured to be a member for Lismore in the Chamber. Lismore has lost its tax office. Wagga Wagga has lost its tax office. What about Orange? Did the honourable member for Orange speak up about it? He ought to be indicted for his silence. The Tamworth tax office has closed. Towns around the State have lost regional development experts because John Howard cut $150 million a year from regional development.

Mr SPEAKER: I call the honourable member for Canterbury to order.

Mr CARR: Jobs have been lost from Medicare and CES offices, social security offices, and the Department of Employment, Education, Training and Youth Affairs. In this period New South Wales lost one-fifth of its Commonwealth employees. And the Opposition serves up John Howard, a conservative Prime Minister from New South Wales. Thank goodness there is not a Victorian there. Imagine how we would have been treated.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I place the honourable member for Vaucluse on three calls to order.

Mr CARR: There he is, that great champion of the Vaucluse millionaires that are being treated so badly by this Government. Since we taxed their properties he has never had a dry eye. One never hears the Chief Minister of the Australian Capital Territory unless she is bleating and whingeing about what the Commonwealth has done to the Australian Capital Territory. That Territory has lost only 8 per cent of its Federal public sector work force. New South Wales has been treated far more harshly by the Commonwealth Government. These dismissals - and let representatives of rural New South Wales note this - have torn $10 million a week out of the Hunter, the Illawarra, and rural New South Wales.

This State is looking at a loss of no less than half a billion dollars a year in wages, and that means spending in the small business sector, from the New South Wales economy as a result of the cuts of the Commonwealth, the job destruction policy of the Howard Government. I should have thought that this would justify a united front, if I can use that term after the spectacular defection in Canberra last week, by all people interested in defending - what is the honourable member for Lane Cove scowling for? She only wants me to draw to the attention of the House her comments. The Opposition laments the alleged language of the Treasurer. What about the things she says about him? The Treasurer’s language is worthy of Jane Austen compared with the stuff she says about him and the stuff that the Leader of the Opposition says about him.

Mr O’Farrell: On a point of order. I am trying hard to abide by your ruling, but if the Premier keeps provoking us I will do more than interject.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I understand the point that the member has raised. The Premier should conclude his answer.

Mr CARR: As God is my witness I did not seek to be provocative. It was only to produce a united response by all the people of New South Wales and their representatives against the national Government doing such damage. All those jobs have gone from the New South Wales economy. The Australian Bureau of Statistics figures show that the New South Wales Government has employed 3,800 more people in the public sector to provide better services for the people of this State in the face of Howard’s massive job and spending cuts.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the Deputy Leader of the Opposition to order for the third time.

Mr CARR: We are proud of our policy of no forced redundancies compared to the policy that the Opposition defends of massive forced job losses from the Commonwealth work force in the once fine State of New South Wales.

Mr RICHARDSON: My question without notice is directed to the Premier, Minister for the Arts, and Minister for Ethnic Affairs. Why did police still fail to act when, after the assault on Katrina Oliver, a message was left on the Emerton youth recreation centre’s answering machine by men threatening to rape, kill and mutilate her? Why are Mount Druitt officers being seconded to combat problems elsewhere when they are not adequately resourced to deal with crime in their own backyard?

Mr CARR: The honourable member has made serious allegations and they deserve to be investigated in full, as they will be.

Mr BECKROGE: I address my question without notice to the Premier. What information does the Premier have on the Outback Adventurer rail service that runs between Sydney and Broken Hill?

Mr CARR: No wonder the Leader of the Opposition is restive. I will come to his role in this
Page 1378
story before long. The Labor Party made a commitment at the last election to restore rail services to Broken Hill and Griffiths. Country trains are running again as a result of our policies.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! A number of members are on three calls to order. If they continue to interject I will direct the Serjeant-at-Arms to remove them.

Mr CARR: We are proud that the rail service was restored, in particular to that gallant city of Broken Hill, a special community in New South Wales. A National Party member in another place said in the Barrier Daily Truth on 3 October:

The rail service was of absolute importance to the service of the city.

Imagine the shattering blow to the morale of Broken Hill when the Leader of the Opposition arrived and made remarks of a different character about this rail service. However, we can hail this as the first policy declaration made by the honourable gentleman as Leader of the Opposition. It is most important.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! The Leader of the Opposition will remain silent.

Mr CARR: He arrived in Broken Hill on 2 October. He was interviewed by that great newspaper the Barrier Daily Truth on 3 October and was asked whether he could say that a coalition government would "keep the Outback Adventurer". He said, "What’s the Outback Adventurer?"

Mr SPEAKER: Order! If the Leader of the Opposition wishes to correct what the Premier is saying he can use the forms of the House.

Mr CARR: He was told that it was the choo choo train that goes to Broken Hill. His next response was to object to the question. He said that they should not ask him that because "we are not even in government". So we have a new rule: no questions about policy to the Leader of the Opposition.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! Having called the honourable member for North Shore to order on three occasions, I direct the Serjeant-at-Arms to remove her.

[The honourable member for North Shore left the Chamber, accompanied by the Serjeant-at-Arms.]

Mr CARR: He said, "We are not even in government". That was a blinding revelation. That line was obviously written for him by the member for Northcott who presided over the Opposition’s campaign at the last election. The article then goes on to say that under pressure the Leader of the Opposition said "he had given his answer and was critical of the line of questioning because it was a media beat-up". A very simple question was asked, "Are you going to maintain the rail service or not", and he objected that it was a media beat-up, the Opposition was not even in government, why should he be required to give an assurance.

Mr Collins: In the Labor paper.

Mr CARR: Why did the Leader of the Opposition allow himself to be interviewed by them? Can there be any faith that the rail service would continue if the coalition was to be elected to government? It is an overwhelming likelihood that if the Government changed, as it did in 1988, that rail service would go. So, lost in the desert the Leader of the Opposition gave the game away. The rail service will go if the Labor Government goes. He could not give the assurance that the people of Broken Hill begged for, and thus demonstrated his great indifference to the welfare of that gallant community.

He was there, he was asked and refused to provide the assurance. When he was at Broken Hill it was the perfect opportunity for him to make a commitment but he failed to provide the assurance. Instead, he complained that the question was a media beat-up. Let the word go out from this time and place to friend and foe alike that if there is a change in government the first community to be picked on and to suffer would be that most gallant and greatest of New South Wales communities, the great little city of Broken Hill.

Mr PHOTIOS: My question is addressed to the Minister for Transport, and Minister for Tourism.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I place the Minister for Public Works on three calls to order.

Mr PHOTIOS: Was the chairman of the Hunter’s major incident management group delayed by more than an hour from attending this morning’s freight train collision because he had to catch a bus to a train depot after David Hill’s instruction that managers not take their State Rail Authority cars home? Why was it not urgent to get this manager to the accident when it was deemed necessary this morning to fly two Sydney fat cats by helicopter to the scene of the collision?

Mr LANGTON: The answer is no, the chairman did not get on a bus this morning and was
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nowhere near a bus this morning. The honourable member for Ermington is wrong. I have seen the honourable member’s press release of a couple of hours ago in relation to this alleged story in which he said that the fellow by the name of Holmes caught a bus to Broadmeadow station. We thought the best way to check this story out was to speak to Mr Holmes. He said, "No, I was driven to work this morning by my wife, as I am every other day." He got to work with his wife, he did not get on the bus. The honourable member for Ermington is wrong.

It is also relevant to note that it would not have mattered what time Mr Holmes got to that terrible incident at Beresfield because the emergency services did not allow any rail personnel near the site until it had been cleaned up. The incident occurred at about 6.45 a.m. and there was an oil spill and a fuel spill. The all-clear was given at about 10.30 a.m. until which time rail personnel were not allowed onto the site. It was totally appropriate that senior State Rail people from Sydney were sent there as a matter of urgency to look at the site. That happened, and a fellow named Arthur Smith who is a chief operations manager at the State Rail Authority was flown there by helicopter to co-ordinate any services that were needed. That was appropriate.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Ermington to order for the third time.

Mr LANGTON: All honourable members will acknowledge that it was a terrible accident this morning at Beresfield when two loaded coal trains each hauling approximately 7,000 tonnes of coal collided at the station when one ran into the back of the other. The collision occurred on the upline heading towards Sydney and destroyed approximately 200 metres of track. There has been substantial damage to rolling stock and to the railway station. The last report I had was that the ticket box of Beresfield station was actually inside one of the coal wagons lying on the platform.

I know that, as with the incident yesterday, honourable members are concerned about the health and safety of the people involved in the incident. I advise the House that the two train crews from the front train have been released from hospital having been treated for whiplash injuries. The observer from the rear train is in a stable condition and is being treated for a broken arm and other injuries. The driver of the rear train has serious injuries and has been moved to the John Hunter Hospital. The assistant station master is still being treated at hospital for minor cuts and abrasions and a member of the public at the station has suffered a broken leg, cuts and abrasions.

I indicated that emergency services had to attend, and honourable members should congratulate the emergency services staff who attended and did such a wonderful job, as they did yesterday. There was danger from a fuel spill, and by 9.45 a.m. the fuel spill had been contained and the fuel started to be moved to Kooragang Island for treatment and disposal. The police, as always, were there early and did a good job, particularly in controlling the crowd, and they also should be congratulated on their involvement. It will be some time before the cause of the crash is known but, as expected, early reports indicate a signal failure but that is always the first reason given. Obviously there will have to be investigations.

I am advised that buses are being used to take passengers between Newcastle and Maitland and also to Dungog and Muswellbrook. Countrylink will continue to run trains to Broadmeadow, passengers will be bussed around to Maitland to connect with Countrylink services which are already on the northern side of the incident. I am advised that a crane is likely to arrive on site at about this time, and will probably take about 16 hours to clear the track before restoration work on the track can commence and for the line to be restored. I will ensure that members are advised of any developments and that the investigations into the incident are full and thorough. There was an appalling allegation by the honourable member for Ermington today -

Mr Yeadon: He is a liar.

Mr LANGTON: He is a liar.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! The Minister will return to the answer and not pursue that matter further.

Mr O’Doherty: On a point of order.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is no point of order.

Mr LANGTON: The honourable member for Ermington got it absolutely wrong. The appropriate personnel who needed to be on site were on site. Mr Holmes did not get a bus this morning.

Mr Photios: On a point of order.

Page 1380

Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is no point of order; I have already ruled on the matter. The member will resume his seat.

Mr BECK: My question is addressed to the Minister for Agriculture. Is the Tweed Shire Council garbage dump, which was to become a botanic garden after filling, now to become a Department of Agriculture toxic waste dump, rendering valueless two adjoining properties and posing a community health hazard? What compensation does the Minister propose to offer the owners of the blighted properties?

Mr AMERY: I thank the honourable member for the second agricultural question asked of me this year by the Opposition. I take it that the member is referring to cattle tick dip sites where the waste taken from the various sites is to be put in a storage facility on the north coast.

Mr Beck: That is exactly right.

Mr AMERY: The honourable member should have made his question a little clearer and I might have been able to help him out. The cattle tick dip site issue on the north coast had to be resolved. I pulled the issue from the bottom drawer when I became Minister. The community on the north coast has done an excellent job of trying to resolve this difficult question, particularly for many owners of property on which cattle tick dip sites formerly operated.

Nine former dip sites in the Tweed Valley require cleaning up to address public health concerns. The Opposition would not oppose that. New South Wales Agriculture proposes to store waste from these sites in a secure storage to be constructed within council’s waste disposal facility. Tweed council has approved the proposal on a deferred commencement basis, pending submission of an environmental management plan. Mr Acting-Speaker, the Department of Public Works and Services has been engaged to prepare detailed design and management plans and to oversee construction of the storage once approved. As the honourable member for Ermington can see, I am much better briefed than he is. I do a little more research than he does.

The storage is designed to hold up to 20,000 cubic metres of contaminated soil and its construction is estimated to cost $1.5 million. Two residents who live 250 metres and 350 metres from the site have waged a strenuous campaign against the proposal. The honourable member referred to them and represents them in this House. Community concerns were canvassed at a number of public meetings, and New South Wales Agriculture produced a 12-page information booklet to address the issues raised. Despite this information and assurances concerning the safe operation of the secure storage, the two neighbouring residents remain strongly opposed to the project.

The New South Wales Government is committed to cleaning up the priority properties in the Tweed Valley and to constructing a secure facility. I have received representations not only from those two residents but from other people with cattle tick dip sites on their properties who have made claims for compensation. While I have been the Minister for Agriculture I have committed considerable government funding to ensure that these disputes are mediated. The Government hopes fully to resolve the dip sites issues by Christmas this year. Due process will take place. The question of whether these people have a right to compensation will be examined. I will not give any assurances to these people that compensation will be paid because at this stage of the game no firm application has substantiated a claim for compensation. The secure storage proposal has been approved by the council, and an environmental study is being undertaken. Mr Acting-Speaker, I am happy to receive representations on the matter.

Mr Fraser: On a point of order. It is customary for members to be referred to by their correct title. This is the third time the Minister has referred to you as the Acting-Speaker.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! No point of order is involved.

Mr AMERY: I apologise, Mr Speaker; it was a slip of the tongue. I keep thinking of the acting Opposition and I get mixed up from time to time. As I said, the Government will examine the compensation issue. However, the evidence put to me so far does not substantiate any claim for compensation. I will accept further evidence from the honourable member and respond at the appropriate time.

Mr BECK: I ask a supplementary question. Why will the just terms compensation provisions not apply to the two property owners involved?

Page 1381

Mr AMERY: I will examine any application for compensation made under any Act of Parliament. Whether compensation is paid under the just terms compensation provisions or other provisions, entitlement to compensation in this case has not yet been substantiated. However, if I am provided with fresh information I will continue to examine the matter. I thank the Opposition for asking me two questions on agriculture. I am quite excited by its hyperactivity. I will not provoke any interjections from the honourable member for Northcott. In light of the threat to the Premier, he might grab the honourable member for Ermington and throw him at me.

Mr HUNTER: My question without notice is directed to the Minister for Sport and Recreation. What progress has been made in providing funding for regional sporting facilities throughout New South Wales?

Ms HARRISON: I thank the honourable member for his question because it gives me the opportunity to inform the House of some exciting progress in this area. This Government is committed to the development of regional sports facilities throughout New South Wales. Earlier this year I announced that the Government had allocated $4.5 million to improve the State’s regional facilities. We are making an effort to support the progressive development of a network of regional sports facilities which will meet the needs of talented and elite athletes, as well as the community generally. Sporting organisations and local government bodies were provided with guidelines under which applications could be made for funding from this program. Basically, applicants needed to demonstrate that their project had reached an advanced stage of planning and that work could start within six months of an application being approved and preferably completed within 18 months.

Interested groups were advised that funding could be used either to upgrade existing facilities or to construct new facilities. For an application to be successful I needed to see a strong commitment to individual projects in terms of a sound management structure, an acceptable financial management plan and support of the relevant State sporting association and local council for the project. I am pleased to announce that assessment of more than 70 applications has been completed. The process included my regional directors providing an evaluation of each application, contact with the Sydney Organising Committee for the Olympic Games to determine if any projects were identified in the training facility program for the 2000 Olympics, contact with State sporting associations seeking an indication of their priority for each application, and an assessment from my department’s facility development unit.

I am pleased to announce that I have approved funding for 11 projects from the 1996-97 budget allocation, including $300,000 for North Sydney Council’s application to enclose an existing four-court outdoor facility for basketball, netball and table tennis; $80,000 for the Ryde-Eastwood Baseball League to upgrade lighting and seating capacity of ELS Hall Park; $15,000 to Orana Equestrian Club for the provision of two functional bays at the equestrian centre; $300,000 to Griffith City Council for the construction of an indoor aquatic centre; $250,000 to Greater Lithgow Hockey Association to construct a water-based pitch; $80,000 to Cessnock District Hockey Association to lay a synthetic pitch; $250,000 to Goulburn City Council to enclose and heat the pool at Victoria Park; $105,000 to Rockdale City Council to heat the pools at Bexley swimming centre; and $81,500 to Newcastle-Lake Macquarie Clay Target Club to upgrade an existing skeet facility.

I have already made announcements about the remaining two projects funded from this allocation: $300,000 for Armidale City Council for major works at the Armidale swimming centre, including heating of the pools; and $54,000 for the Campbelltown and District Softball Association for lighting at the association’s grounds. The main features of these projects are that they have made a significant impact at a regional level, provided an opportunity to increase participation levels and confirmed funding from other sources. While funding for these projects amounts to approximately $1.8 million, with additional funding provided by sporting organisations and local government the total cost is almost $10 million. Applicants unsuccessful in this funding round are free to apply when applications are called for shortly for grants under the 1997-98 program.

My regional directors will advise applicants of the reasons they did not receive funding on this occasion and explain to some applicants why they may have been ineligible. Of course, this information will assist them in future applications. I hope to make further announcements early next year
Page 1382
of successful applications for funds from the 1997-98 program. I am extremely proud of the Government’s efforts to provide quality sporting and recreational facilities across the State. These facilities promote, support and encourage a healthy lifestyle and provide a secure environment for the people of New South Wales in which to work and play.

Questions without notice concluded.

Mr PRICE (Waratah) [3.23 p.m.]: During question time today mention was made of the rail disaster at Beresfield in my electorate involving a number of people I know personally. At 11.30 this morning when I heard of this serious accident I asked to be paired so that I could attend the site to do what I could as the local member and local representative. I am dismayed to say that I was refused to be paired. When a member is refused the privilege to attend his electorate in response to a tragedy such as this it is a mark against this House and it is certainly a mark against the Opposition.

Ms ALLAN (Blacktown - Minister for the Environment) [3.20 p.m.]: This House should give priority to my urgency motion on this important issue of significant reduction in air pollution across the greater metropolitan area. For as long as I have been a member of this House one of the most critical issues affecting the environmental health of New South Wales has been air quality. Precedence should be given to my motion because the status of our air quality is of immense public interest and the actions of the Government to improve that air quality are keenly monitored. Since coming to office -

Mr O’Farrell: On a point of order. My point of order relates to Standing Order 120(4)(a). The Minister has been a member of this House long enough to know that her task is to argue the reason her motion should be given merit and priority and not to debate the issues involved.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I uphold the point of order.

Ms ALLAN: My motion should take precedence because it provides an ideal opportunity to inform members of this Chamber about the monumental gains this Government has achieved in reducing air pollution. It should take precedence because it clearly highlights how the policies we have implemented have led to demonstrable benefits -

Mr O’Farrell: On a point of order. With great reluctance I refer again to Standing Order 120(4)(a). The Minister must use this portion of the debate to argue her case. She must establish in very simple terms why her motion is more urgent than that proposed by the honourable member for Eastwood.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I uphold the point of order.

Ms ALLAN: I had almost completed my remarks. I am amazed that Opposition members are wasting so much time when they want to hear what the honourable member for Eastwood has to say. My motion will get precedence this afternoon so there will be opportunity to discuss it, but it will clearly and undeniably reveal this Government’s priorities in righting the wrongs of previous coalition governments and their disgraceful record in tackling air quality pollution in Sydney.

Mr TINK (Eastwood) [3.24 p.m.]: My motion is urgent because of the appalling insult the Treasurer, Michael Egan, paid to police that was today described by the Premier as worthy of Jane Austen. My motion is urgent because the Premier obviously supports his Treasurer’s insults of the police. My motion is urgent because the Premier and the Treasurer obviously are conspiring to blow the police pay negotiations out of the way by insulting them and inciting them into extraordinary industrial action. My motion is urgent because the Government is applying a hypocritical double standard to what police can and cannot do.

My motion is urgent because the Minister for Police has said to this Parliament, "How can we expect to build a more representative and responsible Police Service when the highest court in the State sanctions language in the workplace which
Page 1383
is not only offensive but extremely demeaning?" My motion is urgent because the Minister was referring to the castigation of a sergeant for using offensive language in the workplace, language that apparently in the Treasurer’s workplace, namely in the caucus room, is not offensive when it gratuitously insults police. My motion is urgent because on 22 October the Minister told the Parliament -

Mr Lynch: On a point of order. My point of order is taken pursuant to Standing Order 120(4)(a). Notwithstanding the repetition of the phrase "it is urgent because", the honourable member for Eastwood must nevertheless establish urgency. The mere use of that phrase does not of itself bring it within the standing orders. He is clearly talking to the merits of his motion and not to urgency.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! At this stage the honourable member’s remarks fall within the provisions of the standing orders. The member may continue.

Mr TINK: My motion is urgent quite simply because the police Minister sets one standard for himself when he insults Mr Taylor, one standard for his Treasurer and another standard for police. My motion is urgent because the Minister is setting one standard for the police and another for his Cabinet colleagues to derail and incite police to wider industrial action. My motion is urgent because notwithstanding the Premier’s denials today that those words were never spoken, the coalition has it on the impeccable authority of the honourable member for Londonderry that those words were spoken. It intrigues me that the honourable member for Londonderry is usually the one who takes the asinine points of order that the honourable member for Liverpool has taken, but the honourable member for Londonderry is not now in the Chamber to take such points of order because he knows he will be embarrassed as the source of this story.

Mr Lynch: On a point of order. Once again pursuant to Standing Order 120(4)(a), the comments of the honourable member for Eastwood have nothing to do with establishing urgency. The attack upon the honourable member for Londonderry has nothing to do with establishing priority. If the honourable member for Eastwood wants to launch a substantive attack upon the honourable member for Londonderry, he should do so by way of notice of motion and not waste the time of this House by devoting himself to those matters when he should be establishing urgency.

Mr Hartcher: On the point of order. Why are there not any right-wing members such as the honourable member for Londonderry and the honourable member for The Entrance rising in defence of the Minister for the Environment?

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I uphold the point of order.

Mr TINK: This motion is urgent because Cabinet members are repeatedly setting an appalling example such that picking on, bashing, assaulting and otherwise holding police in contempt now puts at risk the physical safety of our community. Police suffer ongoing pressure, particularly in the Fairfield area, in light of ongoing matters arising from the death of Constable Carty. For the highest members of the Government to describe police as bastards, as the Treasurer did, only provides an environment in which the community will have increasing contempt for police. The Government should set the standard. This matter is urgent because Cabinet members should know and do better and should withdraw and apologise.

Question - That the motion for urgent consideration of the honourable member for Blacktown be proceeded with - put.

The House divided.

Ms Allan Mr Martin
Mr Amery Mr McManus
Mr Anderson Ms Meagher
Ms Andrews Mr Mills
Mr Aquilina Mr Moss
Mrs Beamer Mr Nagle
Mr Carr Mr Neilly
Mr Clough Ms Nori
Mr Crittenden Mr Page
Mr Debus Mr Price
Mr Face Dr Refshauge
Mr Gaudry Mr Rogan
Mr Gibson Mr Rumble
Mrs Grusovin Mr Scully
Ms Hall Mr Shedden
Mr Harrison Mr Stewart
Ms Harrison Mr Sullivan
Mr Hunter Mr Tripodi
Mr Iemma Mr Watkins
Mr Knight Mr Whelan
Mr Knowles Mr Woods
Mr Langton Mr Yeadon
Mrs Lo Po’
Mr Lynch Tellers,
Mr McBride Mr Beckroge
Mr Markham Mr Thompson

Page 1384

Mr Armstrong Mr O’Farrell
Mr Beck Mr D. L. Page
Mr Blackmore Mr Peacocke
Mr Brogden Mr Phillips
Mr Chappell Mr Photios
Mrs Chikarovski Mr Richardson
Mr Collins Mr Rixon
Mr Debnam Mr Rozzoli
Mr Downy Mr Schipp
Mr Ellis Mr Schultz
Ms Ficarra Ms Seaton
Mr Fraser Mr Slack-Smith
Mr Glachan Mr Small
Mr Hartcher Mr Smith
Mr Hazzard Mr Souris
Mr Humpherson Mr Tink
Dr Kernohan Mr J. H. Turner
Mr MacCarthy Mr R. W. Turner
Dr Macdonald Mr Windsor
Mr Merton Tellers,
Mr Oakeshott Mr Jeffery
Mr O’Doherty Mr Kerr

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Ms ALLAN (Blacktown - Minister for the Environment) [3.38 p.m.]: I move:

(1) That this House congratulates the Government for achieving almost a 70 per cent reduction in the proportion of smoky light vehicles on the road and almost a 20 per cent decrease in the proportion of heavy vehicles emitting smoke as revealed in the EPA’s Smoky Vehicle Benchmark Survey Report 1997.

(2) That this House also recognises this is the result of the Government’s continuing war on air pollution including training more than 500 EPA and RTA officers to detect smoky vehicles and related public education campaigns.

(3) That this House acknowledges the Government’s ongoing commitment to reducing all sources of air pollution to improve the quality of life of people living in New South Wales.

I am delighted to be in a position today to reveal yet another victory in the Carr Government’s war on air pollution. Survey results produced by the New South Wales Environment Protection Authority have revealed that the number of smoky vehicles in Sydney has decreased by almost 70 per cent in the past two years, following a crackdown by the Carr Government. The results also show that the community is becoming more aware of the way in which trucks and cars can damage air quality. One of the main reasons for this major achievement is that the Government has trained 500 Environment Protection Authority and Roads and Traffic Authority officers to detect smoky vehicles. I congratulate my colleague the Minister for Roads, who is responsible for the RTA, on his utmost co-operation and the co-operation of his agency in ensuring that this program works.

The survey results are proof that EPA and RTA vigilance in policing smoky vehicles is now bearing fruit. Targeting vehicle pollution is one of the Government’s main priorities in reducing air pollution. Vehicles produce almost 80 per cent of nitrous oxides and nearly half the volatile organic compounds that threaten Sydney’s air quality. This excellent survey result is a tribute not only to the community, which is doing its job, but also to the active enforcement and education campaigns by the EPA and other organisations. The study found that smoky car numbers have decreased by nearly 70 per cent, with smoky trucks being down nearly 20 per cent from two years ago.

The survey repeated a 1995 study in which more than 4,500 trucks and more than 2,500 cars and motorcycles were observed at five metropolitan sites. The two surveys were carried out at the same time of day and on the same days of the week, to make sure that the results were comparable. The five sites were on the M4 at Homebush, Victoria Street at Wetherill Park, Alfords Point Road at Alfords Point, the Hume Highway at Campbelltown and the F3 at Mount White. The criteria used to determine site selection were: good visibility with an observation point with an unimpeded view of the survey strip; adequate and freely flowing traffic volume; and suitable incline of the carriageway to ensure that vehicle engines operate under load. In other words, it was not a dodgy survey; it was a well-conducted and well-studied survey, surveying a significant number of cars and trucks.

The same size was selected to target a 95 per cent confidence level at +2 per cent. A total of 4,782 heavy vehicles and 2,501 light vehicles were observed and counted by the survey officers. Markers were placed beside the carriageway at a set distance apart to simulate a time period of approximately 10 seconds. The distance was calculated on the average speed of the traffic at each site. Any vehicle that emitted smoke continuously while passing from the first to the last marker was counted as a smoky vehicle.

Page 1385

Mr Hazzard: What was the average speed?

Ms ALLAN: Two officers from the motor vehicle enforcement unit participated in the survey. The surveying officers are very experienced in the detection of smoky vehicles. The first officer counted continuous light vehicles and the second officer counted continuous heavy vehicles from an observation point. The officers counted both the total number of vehicles and the number of smoky vehicles in the allotted category.

Mr Hazzard: What was the time?

Ms ALLAN: The honourable member for Wakehurst asked for more detail, and I shall give it to him. The results of the 1997 survey indicated that 1.3 per cent of light vehicles emitted smoke and 20.1 per cent of heavy vehicles emitted smoke for approximately 10 seconds. The associated 95 per cent confidence interval derived from the sample for the percentage of vehicles in Sydney that emit smoke ranged from 0.8 per cent to 1.7 per cent for light vehicles and from 18.8 per cent to 21.3 per cent for heavy vehicles. The total smoky vehicle result was calculated using the results of the individual sites and their different estimates of variance, or accuracy. An associated combined variance was calculated.

The results of the 1997 survey compared to the 1995 survey indicated a significant reduction in smoky vehicles. There was a reduction of 3.2 per cent in the proportion of smoky light vehicles, representing a 70 per cent reduction in the actual number of those vehicles emitting smoke. A 6.1 per cent reduction in the proportion of smoky heavy vehicles represents a 23 per cent decrease in the actual number of heavy vehicles emitting smoke. Those reductions in actual numbers assume a constant fleet size, hence they are slightly overstated to the extent that the actual on-road fleet increased in the period from 1995 to 1997. Adjusting the fleet increase - as has been done - gives an estimate of a 60.5 per cent reduction over the two years in light vehicles on the road and a 19.3 per cent reduction over the two years in heavy vehicles on the road that emit smoke.

The reason for the survey results, the decrease in the number of smoky vehicles in New South Wales, has, I believe, resulted from a number of factors - and these factors, apart from the survey results themselves, are tremendous news. There has been an increase in activity in the smoky vehicle program conducted by the EPA, resulting in heightened community awareness of smoky vehicles. Sure, there are people who are angry that they have been pinged because their vehicle is emitting smoke over and above what it should be. It is those people who on various occasions write to honourable members to complain about the receipt of an infringement notice or a letter from the EPA asking them to present their vehicle to be thoroughly studied and for problems to be repaired. People then have to prove that repair has been effected. Some people get cranky when they receive an infringement notice, but generally speaking the campaign has led to better community recognition that people should not be driving vehicles that contribute nitrous oxides and other emissions to the atmosphere.

The improved economic climate in the past two years has enabled owners of smoky vehicles to have their vehicles repaired more regularly. It does not matter whether one drives a new or an old vehicle, one’s vehicle could still be smoky unless one has it tuned regularly. Technology, especially for new diesel-engine vehicles, has improved in the past two years, which flows through to a reduction in the number of smoky vehicles on the roads. The EPA and the RTA base their policy on smoky vehicles not only on enforcement but also on prevention. A warning letter is issued to the owner of a smoky vehicle. Vehicles that have been observed to emit visible smoke for more than 10 seconds continuously have to be checked thoroughly within 30 days, and there is a requirement that evidence be provided that the vehicle has been repaired by a licensed mechanic.

The philosophy is that it is better to spend money on repairing a vehicle than on paying a fine, so the first option is not to impose a fine. In the urban areas of Sydney, Newcastle and Wollongong, where the air pollution problems are of the most concern, failure to provide evidence of repair within the 30-day period attracts a $112 penalty. Although the results are encouraging, increasing vehicle use still poses a long-term threat to Sydney’s improving air quality. If we want good, clean air during the Sydney Olympic Games, we will have to do better. That is why the Government is not focusing just on the smoky vehicle prevention program but is tackling air pollution on a variety of fronts.

The Government seeks to ensure that wood-burning heaters perform better and continues to tighten industrial emissions into the air. The private sector is encouraged to initiate schemes. In that regard I note the new car pooling scheme called easy share, which I launched several weeks ago. In addition to the action I have already outlined, the Government is taking a number of initiatives to ensure that Sydney’s air pollution problems are reduced rapidly. I must admit to being delighted at
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the survey results. The survey is impeccable. The performance of both the EPA and the RTA, which are responsible for the 500 enforcement officers that the Government has trained in the past two years, should be congratulated on the enormous efforts they have made since 1995.

Mr HAZZARD (Wakehurst) [3.48 p.m.]: If the Minister thinks that honourable members will believe that the Government has done anything for Sydney’s air pollution she is having herself on. Perhaps the Minister does not read the newspapers. I wonder whether she remembers the Daily Telegraph article headed "City’s fatal smog", which referred to a Government study showing that pollution kills 400 people a year. Only months ago the Minister for Health was saying that 400 people a year die from pollution. The Government should be doing something pro-active. The Minister for the Environment and the Minister for Health have become the Minnie Mouse and the Mickey Mouse of the New South Wales Parliament. They both live in fantasyland. He lives in fantasyland so far as hospital figures are concerned and the Minister for the Environment lives in fantasyland so far as air pollution indexes and figures are concerned.

The Minister is fortunate to be able to feel happy about this survey. She was not happy enough to send a copy to me. She was not happy enough to send a copy to the Opposition so that it could analyse the survey. Meanwhile, people out west are crying out for the Government to do something. Even the environmentalists whom the Minister claims as her supporters are saying, "This is a lousy Government. When it comes to cleaning up the environment, this is a hopeless, decrepit, moronic government." My God! Mickey Mouse and Minnie Mouse are out leading the charge in fantasyland, and doing absolutely nothing except dreaming up crazy surveys and trying to justify their inaction. The Opposition is working with people who care about these issues. The Minister was unable to read the headline about pollution killing 400 people each year; perhaps she can read this headline. The Minister has turned her back on the environment; she is not interested. She has gone to ring her office to find out if the tea is in the office. She is ringing to check that the cake and bikkies will arrive at four o’clock.

Ms Allan: What do you want on your pizza?

Mr HAZZARD: If I could be sure the Minister would not put anything else on the pizza, I would share a pizza with her, but I would not have it in western Sydney, because out there I would probably choke before I got to eat the pizza. The mid-term review of the New South Wales Government -

Mrs Beamer: You are just a joke. You are a real joke.

Mr HAZZARD: The honourable member for Badgerys Creek would not know the first thing about the Total Environment Centre, the Nature Conservation Council, the Australian Conservation Foundation, the National Parks Association or the Friends of the Earth, but in the mid-term report mention is made of air pollution. The report stated that despite Labor’s far-reaching 1995 policy promising cleaner air and a declaration of war on smog soon after gaining office, very little has eventuated. The metropolitan air quality study has revealed that 400 deaths and thousands of cases of illness occur each year from air pollution and that major changes in transport infrastructure programs and policies are a necessity. But what are we getting? We are getting a few little surveys and a few mickey-mouse ideas. The Government came to office promising all sorts of wonderful things.

I have the pre-election policy document from the Labor Party. It was probably written by Mickey Mouse and Minnie Mouse on the top of one of those fantasyland rides. They seemed to have their heads spinning as they wrote it. In its policy document Labor made a number of promises. One thing that I am sure the honourable member for Badgerys Creek would like is that public transport will be expanded and made more attractive as part of the major effort to reduce the number of cars using the roads during peak hours. But, has that happened? The integrated transport strategy disappeared out the door. No-one worries about providing transport to western Sydney. People in western Sydney are desperate for additional public transport, but the Government has done nothing. That is another promise that was not delivered. Another promise related to unacceptable delays in the training of car mechanics. This is a beauty.

Labor’s policy document stated that there have been unacceptable delays in the training of car mechanics to test pollution controls on vehicles to ensure that cars using leaded petrol conform to pollution emission standards. Labor promised that the procedure would be introduced as quickly as possible as part of car registration. The bottom line is that the Government has done nothing about registration. Vehicles are still being registered in New South Wales and there are no vehicle emission checks. No-one has been trained to do the job and, indeed, that is not even contemplated. The policy document referred to alternative fuels. It stated that
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the use of alternative fuels would be encouraged, including ethynyl blends to reduce diesel pollution, but nothing has happened. What has the Government been doing? I will tell honourable members what the Government has been doing. The Minister has her foot off the pedal. She is sitting in the back office and does not know what is going on.

The transport people placed an advertisement in the paper late last year and that was a golden opportunity for the Minister to stamp her credentials on the environment of New South Wales. She could have demanded that the proposed 300 new buses for Sydney be clean gas buses. The advertisement contained no preference for gas or alternative fuel. The Government is about to announce the purchase of 300 diesel, air-polluting buses. It is not as if this message has not gone across the world. Officials from the Atlanta Olympics visited New South Wales in June. An ABC media release of 18 June stated:

One of the people who helped clear the air in Atlanta for that city’s Olympics is offering some free advice on smog busting to Sydney.

The Minister should have taken note. The article continued:

The President of the Atlanta Clean Air team, Dennis Smith, is in Australia to lobby for greater use of gas powered vehicles in public transport.

He’ll also be meeting with members of the Olympic Co-ordination Authority and the New South Wales State Transit Authority about adding more natural gas buses to Sydney’s fleet.

A decision on the tendering of 300 new buses is expected to be made shortly.

Not a word from the Carr Government and not a word from the Minister for the Environment. She has said nothing to her colleagues about the new buses, which will be on Sydney roads shortly polluting the air. She has done nothing to ensure that the buses that are purchased will have environmental credentials. It does not matter where I go, people are crying out that the Carr Government is doing nothing for the environment. On Sunday morning I was with a worthy group of people - Ian Cohen from the Greens, Richard Jones, a concerned environmentalist, and Jeff Angel. I have a photograph of the group standing in front of the harbour. I do not know where the Minister was, but she was not there. One can see the pollution haze in the photograph. It is a lovely shot of the pollution haze. There am I, the shadow minister for the environment, with all those green groups. Would the Minister like to know what they said?

[Interruption]

I will send the honourable member for Badgerys Creek a signed copy.

Ms Allan: Let me look at it.

Mr HAZZARD: No, you might give them a hard time.

Ms Allan: Is that your only copy?

Mr HAZZARD: This is my only copy.

Ms Allan: We will get it in the papers for you. I want to prop you up.

Mr HAZZARD: If the Minister would do as much for the environment as she appears to do promoting me, I would be very grateful. The bottom line is that all those environmentalists said it. Ian Cohen, Richard Jones, Jeff Angel from the Total Environment Centre and all of the community members who spoke at the meeting for almost two hours, did nothing but bag the Government.

Ms Allan: It was at Manly. You were at Manly on Sunday. That was a long way from home. Did you have an alfresco lunch?

Mr HAZZARD: That is very good. The Minister knows where the meeting was held. If she knew where the meeting was to be held, she should have attended. She should have been prepared to have the guts and courage to stand up at that community meeting and tell it like it is, admit that the Government is doing nothing. The simple fact is that members of the Government are the most incompetent, imbecilic, stupid, moronic lot of people one could possibly have as a government and they have failed completely to do anything substantial. They come from the west of Sydney to some degree, but they do nothing for the people of western Sydney. I spent five years working in Bankstown. I spent years in that area and I know full well that the Government was expected to do some good things, but it has done nothing. What have you done about air quality? The Government has provided two additional air monitoring stations. That shows that the Minister has failed and the Government has failed. Air pollution over Sydney is the worst it has ever been. Approximately 400 people died last year; how many hundreds will die this year? The Minister is pussyfooting around with these silly statistics. The Minister is kidding but she is not going to kid the people of New South Wales.

Mr LYNCH (Liverpool) [3.58 p.m.]: One can determine the narrow, north shore base of the Liberal Party when one hears people like the
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honourable member for Wakehurst. He has talked a little about western Sydney. Some interesting things have emerged from what he said about western Sydney: two general themes. One was the comment he made that he would not eat a pizza in western Sydney because he would choke on the air. Whatever the air quality problems might be in western Sydney, they are not that bad. It is an indication of what this creature, the previous speaker, really thinks about western Sydney. It is part of the delightfully negative portrayal that people from the north shore of Sydney like to impose upon us. It is the old class-based analysis from the rich and the elite, people like the honourable member for Wakehurst who do not know what is in western Sydney and who could not care. The only time it comes to his attention is when he drives through it to go to the snowfields or when he thinks he can make some smart-alec comment for a short-term political benefit.

An interesting thing about his comments on western Sydney is his complete lack of knowledge of what is actually happening. He claimed rhetorically that nothing was being done about public transport in western Sydney. A plethora of things have been done in my electorate by this Government with funding from the Roads and Traffic Authority, including bus lanes for easier access to what will be the transport interchange at Liverpool, a transport interchange that should have been funded a long time ago. We had to put up with seven years of neglect from the previous Government so we are behind the eight ball, but we are still catching up. This Government will make up for the appalling mistakes of the previous lot. The bus lanes will not only get to the transport interchange, they will help service the new estates, something the honourable member spoke a little about but did not understand.

Obviously the honourable member is blissfully unaware that this Government has proclaimed the western Sydney transport strategy. For the first time in the history of this State we have a document entitled the "Western Sydney Transport Strategy". Despite all the ranting and raving from the honourable member for Wakehurst, when his Government was in office it did nothing along those lines. The western Sydney transport strategy has a number of interesting aspects, all of which fly in the face of what the honourable member for Wakehurst said. For example, briefs are out for consultants to prepare plans for the development of the Hoxton Park-Parramatta transport corridor. One of the options being considered is heavy rail, but that was not even contemplated during the administration of the previous Government.

Interestingly enough, tomorrow a meeting of the Western Sydney Regional Organisation of Councils transport subcommittee will hear RTA representatives talk precisely and concretely about the funding for that strategy, once again, a long way from anything that the previous Government did when it was in office. One of the definitions of being in western Sydney is: you do not get your fair share. Western Sydney does not receive an equitable share of resources and benefits. That has meant that, especially under the previous Government, western Sydney did not get the necessary money for public transport. Urban estates have been developed without the infrastructure and that has caused western Sydney very serious air quality problems.

Western suburbs local members would be aware of the incredible high rates of asthma, certainly in the south-west. It is rare that I could go door knocking in any street in suburbs of the south west without coming across a number of families whose children suffer from asthma. That is related directly to problems of bad air quality. It is for that reason that the metropolitan air quality study was commenced by WSROC when I was chairman, and it is for those reasons the Government has introduced these sorts of initiatives. What we are talking about today is a concrete result of those initiatives.

A substantial reduction in the number of light and heavy vehicles emitting smoke will directly improve air quality for people who live in Sydney’s west and south-west. It is an attempt by this Government to do something that the previous Government never attempted. It is one of the issues that need to be turned around so that the south-west and the west of Sydney get their fair share and are treated as well as other parts of the State. A number of successful prosecutions indicate that significant sentences and penalties are being handed out by the Land and Environment Court in relation to vehicles emitting smoke. [Time expired.]

Mr ROZZOLI (Hawkesbury) [4.03 p.m.]: One of the most outstanding things about politics and parliamentary debates today is their general lack of substance and true appreciation of the problems that face the community. I say that bearing in mind the comments of the honourable for Liverpool who spoke, among other things, about the western Sydney public transport strategy and the committee that was established to press for improvements, a committee to which I belong. Most western Sydney Government members are also on that committee but
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they rarely attend meetings. In essence, that committee has demonstrated the failure of this Government to deliver on public transport strategies. The Minister for the Environment makes a fundamental error in that she sees this test - and I do not doubt the accuracy of the test undertaken - as a major indication that Sydney’s air pollution is being cleaned up. There is very little improvement in the pollution levels of Sydney and one of the reasons is that over the past 20 years the use of urban passenger cars for transport has increased dramatically. Our society is linked very much to the use of motor cars.

The reason that the western Sydney public transport strategy committee came into being was the failure of this Government to do anything about the western Sydney public transport strategy. Today, apart from a whole heap of waffle, very little has come out of that strategy. It took until only a few months ago before Cabinet gave the strategy any sort of imprimatur. The committee questioned the Minister for Transport at a meeting as to what dollars were being attached to it and he said, "I have not got any dollars attached to it yet. I have to go back to Cabinet and fight for some money. But rest assured, we will get some money". That left members of the committee with no confidence that the dollars would be forthcoming. The attitude of the Minister for the Environment towards these tests is the old philosophy of one swallow making a summer. Though I have no doubt that the test figures she quotes are accurate, a long history of environmental testing indicates at best only the outcomes but produces very little of substance to tells us what the trends are.

I have had a lot of experience with water testing in the Hawkesbury River system. Tests can be done and results obtained, but until a wide network of monitoring stations is established and the outcomes are monitored for a period of 10 to 15 years, there is insufficient information to give a true position. A test can be carried out on a particular day which will give results for that particular day but unless a body of statistics is built up, an accurate picture will not emerge. Though the Minister may feel pleased with the results of this survey, that is about all one can say about it. It is at best a snapshot of what is happening at a particular location on a particular day. Only a few days ago the Environment Protection Authority said that it would have to re-examine its practice of fining owners of smoky vehicles because of complications arising from the possible sale of illegal cocktails comprising aviation and other fuels that could produce an unreliable emission reading. Responsible officers of the EPA realise that the question is much more complicated than just smoky exhaust emissions, as is shown by this test. At the best these tests are snapshots. I am pleased that they indicate some sort of beneficial results but they do not tell us what the position is with air pollution in Sydney. [Time expired.]

Mrs BEAMER (Badgerys Creek) [4.08 p.m.]: I am pleased to speak on this motion about the smoky vehicle enforcement program which has been undertaken by the Environment Protection Authority. The honourable member for Hawkesbury made some valid points about what is needed.

Ms Allan: He is a very sensible man.

Mrs BEAMER: He is very sensible, and he contrasted with other members by talking about the need for a body of evidence about smoky emissions to show what is happening, at what rate, and how it is occurring. The shadow minister for the environment asked questions about the survey. The survey was done from 11 to 15 August at five sites, being the same sites surveyed last time, to see the trends. Decisions about air quality cannot be made unless the trends are known. In the future when a survey is conducted to build up the body of evidence, people in the community will be very conscious of the issue.

People are not unaware of this issue. A strategy which targets vehicles that are the causes of that pollution and which puts the onus on people who are driving in areas, such as western Sydney, with a lot of vehicle users should be in place. In the past two years 5,000 warning letters have been sent to people so that we can empirically look at a 70 per cent reduction in smoky vehicles appearing from these survey results. Recently the Minister for the Environment talked about other things that the Government has done regarding air quality monitoring.

It angers me when I have listened in this Chamber to the hypocrisy of people who want to dismantle air monitoring systems in western Sydney. The first thing Government members spoke about was not dismantling those systems but building up data. The people of western Sydney are concerned about air quality and have got behind the Government in its efforts to get cleaner air for the whole of the Sydney Basin. The Government is keen for this program to continue. Additional officers from the EPA and the Roads and Traffic Authority are being trained to join the program, to ensure that there is continuing enforcement activity so that people who have a smoky vehicle get caught. The Government should be congratulated if its actions
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result in fewer of those offending vehicles being on the road.

I listened to a whole pile of waffle from Opposition members about, for example, the picnic the Opposition had at Manly and the nice alfresco lunch at The Corso. I am delighted that as part of the Carr Government’s air quality management plan considerations it is investigating other ways to address the issue of the impact of smoky vehicles on air quality, particularly in Sydney and other major urban areas of New South Wales. I am told that the air quality management plan will encompass all major sources of smog and brown haze. More importantly, it will seek to address the seemingly inexorable growth of dependency on the car. The increasing numbers of car trips and kilometres travelled as our population grows bring more air quality problems to our cities. That problem has to be tackled.

As the honourable member for Hawkesbury is well aware from talking to the Western Sydney Regional Organisation of Councils about the transport strategy, the people of the western suburbs want the dollars to be made available to back the strategy, which is a long way ahead of what existed before. The Government is able to inform the people of western Sydney that it has the strategy, the ideas and the ways and means to go forward and solve some of the problems which the former Government ignored.

Ms ALLAN (Blacktown - Minister for the Environment) [4.13 p.m.], in reply: I appreciate that the time is limited but briefly I thank honourable members who have participated in the debate. I particularly appreciated the highly informed comments of the honourable members for the electorates of Hawkesbury, Liverpool and Badgerys Creek. The contribution of the honourable member for Hawkesbury contrasted with that of the young buck that the Opposition has as the shadow minister for the environment, the honourable member for Wakehurst, whose preparation was very poor. He has a particular theme dealing with air quality and I enjoy giving him these opportunities to hone his skills in this area, although he continues to disappoint me.

Today the Government released some good news. Despite the honourable member for Hawkesbury not challenging the methodology of the work done by the EPA, there were silly comments from the honourable member for Wakehurst which suggested that the methodology is not correct. However, all honourable members know that not to be the case. The honourable member for Badgerys Creek emphasised that air quality, its protection and improvement will be a very complex issue. A number of measures have to be taken to address those issues. Today’s news is good news but only one of a series of things that have to continue to be presented as good to indicate -

Mr Rozzoli: A motion of congratulations.

Ms ALLAN: It is worth a motion of congratulations because the message has to be given to the community that there has been an improvement. Sacrifices are involved in the community ensuring that vehicles are working better by being more regularly tuned and that effort deserves to be publicised.

Pursuant to sessional orders business interrupted.

Assent to the following bill reported:

Constitution and Parliamentary Electorates and Elections Amendment Bill.

Bill received and read a first time.

Mr WATKINS (Gladesville) [4.16 p.m.]: I wish to draw the attention of this House to a wonderful educational initiative that has been undertaken by the students, staff and parents of Malvina High School at Ryde in my electorate. The initiative is the establishment in August this year of an antiracism project. With the support of the Department of School Education multicultural education unit, the students and staff came together in a common purpose, which was the promotion of multicultural diversity and tolerance at Malvina High School. At the time of the establishment of the project the school was visited by a guest speaker, Mr Armondo Hurley from the United States of America, who spoke to the students about the impact of racism and discrimination upon individuals of different races.

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Mr Hurley challenged the students to consider what they could do to face the impact of racial discrimination in their lives. He stressed the need for each student to recognise and value his or her individual worth, family and culture. He encouraged students to reach out to each other and to learn from, and to be compassionate about, people from other cultures. The community of Malvina High School took up this challenge by establishing the anti-racism project. The project team members are, from the staff, David Conway, principal; John Hughes, deputy-principal; Margaret Teague, head teacher, welfare; Julie Ronayne; Brian Allan; Sam Meguid; and Gwen McGinn. The parents who are team members are Brownie Komene, Lynn Lloyd and Lorna Jones; and the five year 11 students who are team members are Marta Vickland, Teneille Jobson, Sulaiman Hamidi, David Cruz and Remma Singh.

The goals of the project are, first, to develop ways for students and others at Malvina to raise their concerns about racism in an atmosphere of trust; second, to hold a logo competition to design a logo for the antiracism project; third, to gather data about the multicultural population at Malvina; fourth, to raise awareness about multicultural programs and initiatives at the school through posters, the newsletter, "Malvina Matters", staff and parents and citizens meetings, and local media; and, fifth, to write a policy statement incorporating the views of the whole school community. I am pleased to report to the House that those goals are well under way. I saw great evidence of that at the Malvina High School open night display, at which Ernie Dingo, a local resident, was the special guest. He spent a lot of time with the committee members and was very supportive of the aims and activities of the project.

The committee was encouraged by the positive response from visitors to the open night. The committee has continued to be active in furthering the purposes of the project by making a presentation to parents and citizens and by planning for future steps in the program. In reaching this stage the committee has prefigured the work of the Department of School Education. Yesterday the department launched a statewide campaign to counter racism and celebrate cultural diversity in State schools. At the launch the Minister for Education and Training said:

The New South Wales Government is committed to providing school environments free from discrimination and harassment, where all students and employees can perform at their best.

The school community of Malvina High School has put that commitment into practice through the school’s antiracism project. The project says a great deal about the tolerance and intelligence of young people in our society and in schools, and the strength and vibrancy of Malvina High School in particular. The best answer to those who worry about the apparent growing intolerance in our community or the reaction to the Hanson factor is to visit our primary and senior schools and to see the deep understanding and embracing of multiculturalism, the knowledge of and sensitivity towards Aboriginal issues, and the realisation that reconciliation and understanding are critical and welcome developments in our growth as a community and as a nation. It should be noted that these principles, these desires for justice, are not espoused or developed in a vacuum. Supportive of them in our schools is a deep sense of the history of this nation, a deep regard for its traditions and strengths, and a love of Australia and deep pride in being Australian.

We know that the voices of division and of intolerance to multiculturalism and Aboriginal reconciliation are the voices of ignorance and fear. They are also the voices of the past. They retain some resonance amongst some middle-aged Australians and, unfortunately, a greater number of older Australians. However, amongst our young people they are seen as old-fashioned, sad, stupid and more than a little silly. In my visits to schools I have found that in an age when it often takes a great deal to grab the attention of an audience of young people, mention of people such as Pauline Hanson and racism and the desperate impact they have on this nation draws an immediate silence, attention and expressions of concern. I congratulate the students, staff and wider community of Malvina High School on the wonderful project in which they are involved. I wish them all the best for the future.

Mr FACE (Charlestown - Minister for Gaming and Racing, and Minister Assisting the Premier on Hunter Development) [4.21 p.m.]: I congratulate the honourable member for Gladesville on describing what is happening at Malvina High School. If we are to achieve racial tolerance and the non-vilification of people we must start in our schools. The honourable member rightly said that achieving tolerance amongst some senior citizens is probably a lost cause because people such as Pauline Hanson play on people’s emotions. I did not realise that the matter was so serious until recently when I led a trade mission to Malaysia and Singapore. Austrade officials told me that we had a problem on our hands; I spent the next five or six days trying to overcome the problems that beset us internationally and in Malaysia, and Singapore in particular, in trade terms. The trade mission was successful.
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People trying to sell goods overseas must spend half their time defending what Pauline Hanson has done in this country. That is not idle talk; I speak from experience.

Australia is paying dearly for the Hanson factor, especially in educational institutions to which overseas students come to be educated. The honourable member for Gladesville, who well represents his electorate, rightly said that we must not only be seen to be tolerant but must be tolerant in fact. Australians have always believed that they are tolerant, but under the surface there is a great degree of intolerance. There is no better place to start to address that intolerance than in schools. My eldest daughter, who is 26, had disabled children mainstreamed in her preschool. She has a better knowledge of disabilities and of what the community is told than my generation, simply because she lived and went to school with disabled people. I congratulate the honourable member for Gladesville on his contribution about Malvina High School.

Mr DOWNY (Sutherland) [4.23 p.m.]: I draw the attention of honourable members to the need for youth facilities in Menai in my electorate of Sutherland. Menai is one of the fastest-growing areas in Sydney. Indeed, almost 50 per cent of the population in Menai are aged between five and 15 years. More facilities are needed in Menai so that our young people can participate in their various activities. Various organisations and community groups in Menai wish to provide activities for young people. Because of inadequate road access to the area and a lack of public transport on weekends, many young people in Menai find it difficult to access facilities on the other side of the Woronora River. From that point of view, the Menai area is isolated.

Recently I had discussions with the southern metropolitan region of the Scout Association of Australia. In particular, I have spoken to the regional commissioner for the southern metropolitan region, Mr Peter Bark. The Lucas Heights scout group has been searching for a site to use as a scouting facility in the area. Obviously, the Scout Association has an interest in providing facilities for young people in Menai. The former Menai Public School on the corner of Menai and Old Illawarra roads would be a suitable site. Menai Public School was the original school in the area; indeed, my grandfather was the headmaster of the school in the 1930s. As the area grew the school became surplus to education department needs, and the site has been used for a variety of functions in the intervening years.

The Health Department was the last occupier of the site. Thanks to the previous Government, the department now has a community health centre located in Menai town centre, so the site is surplus to government needs. The Scout Association is eager to take over occupation of the site. As I said, Lucas Heights scout group and Alfords Point scout group are desperate for accommodation to hold their meetings. Interestingly, the rationalisation undertaken by the Scout Association forced many scout groups in New South Wales to amalgamate. However, that has not occurred in Menai because of the large youth population; indeed, there is a proliferation of scout groups in the area. The problem is that insufficient sites are available to accommodate scout groups. The former Menai Public School site would be perfect for such a use.

The Scout Association has contacted the Department of Land and Water Conservation, which has indicated that, although the land has not been assessed to identify possible uses, the Scout Association may possibly have tenure of the site by way of a licence for two years. The Scout Association proposes that the land be used not only by scouts but for other community purposes such as preschool activities in the hours the Scout Association would not require the facilities.

The Scout Association intends to make the site a 24-hour use facility so that the whole community can benefit from its development. The association proposes to use the site between 4.30 p.m. and 9.30 p.m. and on some weekends, but at other times it could be used for a preschool or a play group. The Scout Association would manage the property. The Department of Land and Water Conservation has signified its interest in the site, but at the moment the matter seems to have become bogged down in the bureaucracy. I am asking for expedition of the whole process so that proper use can be made of the site, the Scout Association can use it and young people in the area can also use the facilities.

Mr FACE (Charlestown - Minister for Gaming and Racing, and Minister Assisting the Premier on Hunter Development) [4.28 p.m.]: I take on board the comments of the honourable member for Sutherland. He would be aware of my former chairmanship of the police youth club movement, and the need for facilities in exploding growth areas. I am certainly very familiar with the area. As a
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young person I was involved in another youth movement at Loftus - Camp Wonnawong. An uncle of mine, the late Eric Face, was the warden. I have seen how that area has expanded, particularly on the other side of the river in Menai. Recently I was inspecting the new Illawarra Catholic Club. I congratulate the club on getting out into the areas of need. I pay tribute to Bernard Harley who, unfortunately, was defeated in a ballot the other day for a position with the Registered Clubs Association, which will be the great loser.

Mr Downy: It is an excellent club.

Mr FACE: It is a very good club. Development on the other side of the Woronora River has been tremendous. Every time I visit the area I am amazed at the amount of development that has taken place. I will refer the matter to the Minister for Land and Water Conservation to determine whether the process can be expedited. It is encouraging that the honourable member has a sound knowledge of where youth facilities are placed. If it is a community facility, it should be used for a wide range of activities, rather than just the one. These days everybody wants a place to hang their hat. Youth facilities are obviously needed in the area. It is sensible to plan for youth and community facilities in young and growing areas, rather than to wait until the youth have grown up and left the region.

Ms HALL (Swansea) [4.30 p.m.]: This week Floraville Public School is celebrating its thirtieth anniversary. It is a fine school, set in a beautiful natural environment, with a proud sporting and academic history. In fact, my children attended the school, so I can speak as a past parent when I comment on the commitment and dedication of the teaching staff at Floraville school and the special and caring environment that exists in the school. Currently 366 students are enrolled at Floraville, and in 1998 it is expected that 390 students will be enrolled there. In recent times a number of new subdivisions have been made in the area, which will ensure that the school continues to grow. When Floraville Public School opened in August 1967 Alan Lewis was the school’s principal. Initially, the school catered for students from kindergarten to year 4 only, but in 1969 the school expanded to accommodate students to year 6. An extra dimension was added to the school in 1988 when a before and after school hours child-care facility was established.

The current principal is Mr Lance Marsh. Bill Poole followed Alan Lewis as principal, and Blake Lewin followed him, whilst Ms Geraldine Vero was Lance Marsh’s predecessor. They have all promoted a caring school environment in which students are encouraged to achieve and are provided with a quality education. Floraville is a school at which teachers stay for long periods. A number of the current staff have been at the school for some time. Jeff Threlfo is the longest-serving teacher at Floraville, having been there for 22 years. When I asked him what was so special about Floraville he said the community spirit, the kids and the physical environment. During Jeff’s time at Floraville he has coached the students in sport, managed the state PSSA soccer team and been made a life member of the East Lakes and Hunter PSSA. His dedication is typical of the dedication of all the staff at Floraville. His achievements demonstrate a commitment he and other teachers at the school have to the Floraville school community.

John Lambkin, another teacher, has taught at the school for 17 years. He has also made an enormous contribution to the students and the school. Daphne Patterson and Anne Freer, who taught at the school for 26 and 20 years respectively, recently retired. Floraville is a very special school with teachers who care, very special students and a community that is involved in and supports its school. One of the special attributes of Floraville Public School is its physical environment: it is set in a beautiful natural setting and, until recently, was surrounded by bushland. Whilst the bushland provides a stimulating environment in which students may learn, it has also made the school vulnerable to bushfires. At times in the past bushfires have reached the boundaries of the school.

Recently 30 students from years 3 to 6 received recognition for their excellent work in environmental science when they won first prize in the Gould League-Sydney Morning Herald project environment competition. The Floraville students planned, scripted, enacted, filmed and edited a video presentation that used native animal hand puppets to narrate and feature the animal and plant life in the school’s native bushland area - or the Gully as the area is known - an area that has provided a special dimension to the education of all students who have attended Floraville over the years. This project resulted in the students recording a wealth of research material, highlighting the numerous species of flora and fauna supported in the school’s playground. Students used the Internet and other information technology to develop the project, which
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also included artwork, poetry, photography and sketches inspired by the bushland.

The students will travel to Sydney on 17 November to attend the presentation ceremony. It is a fine effort by students who have a commitment to the environment and the support of teachers, parents and the community who have encouraged the students to develop this commitment. The Floraville Public School has also excelled in the odyssey of the mind competition in recent years. This year three teams from the school entered and won their respective divisions in the national final. In 1994 and 1995 the school was represented in the world finals. In fact, the 1995 team was awarded the assistant director-general’s award for excellence. Over the years students from Floraville Public School have been involved in a wide variety of activities. Two students from Floraville have represented New South Wales - Debbie Huggins in netball and Kevin Saulo in rugby league.

Students from Floraville have been involved in Starstruck since its inception, and the school has always been very proud of its excellent choir. In more recent times the school has established a brass band, a chess club and after-school art classes with a resident artist. Floraville has always been a keen participant in interschool sport, and has a well-established student representative council. The school has made a strong commitment to personal development and student welfare with the peer support program and programs for gifted and talented students. Floraville Public School is a very special school. It is the product of a caring community with very special teachers who are all committed to the students and their education. As member for Swansea I am very proud of the achievements of the students, the school, the teachers and its community. I am sure that over the next 30 years Floraville Public School will continue to excel and provide quality education in its unique and caring environment.

Mr AQUILINA (Riverstone - Minister for Education and Training, and Minister Assisting the Premier on Youth Affairs) [4.35 p.m.]: I am grateful to the honourable member for Swansea for drawing to my attention the superb reputation of Floraville Public School, which this year celebrates its thirtieth anniversary. I noted the comments she made about the special and caring environment of Floraville Public School and the way in which, in the past 30 years, it has assisted its students to grow in academic attainment, and also to grow in their caring for the environment. I compliment the principal, Lance Marsh, for the leadership he shows to the school and for the way in which he has enabled the school to participate in so many different competitions, so many extracurricular activities, over and above what would be expected of any normal school.

I note the participation of the school in such events as the tournament of the minds, the recognition the school has received for its environmental science, the assistant director-general’s award for excellence, which is of high repute, and also the school's participation in Starstruck, which is an event that is much looked forward to in the Hunter region. The honourable member for Swansea quite often uses her opportunity during private members’ statements to extol the virtues of public education in her electorate. Time and again she is able to point to the many magnificent things happening in public schools in her electorate. I am sure that these happenings are mirrored around the State. I congratulate Floraville Public School, its teachers, students and parent community.

Mr R. W. TURNER (Orange) [4.37 p.m.]: I acknowledge the presence of the Minister for Agriculture and thank him for his concern for the plight of the Central West Rural Financial Counselling Service. The service urgently needs financial support to maintain the community service it currently provides to land-holders within the Orange electorate and beyond. In June 1992 that service employed one rural counsellor and a part-time administrative assistant. Since 1992 the service has grown considerably to a point where an average of 200 to 250 clients are assisted annually. The past 12 months has seen a significant increase in the workload due to a change in the type of work conducted by the service.

Previously the majority of clients contacted the service seeking help with interest subsidy applications or other rural adjustment scheme assistance. Currently 80 per cent or more of the clients contact the service seeking assistance with bank negotiations, refinancing proposals or business analyses. There has also been a significant increase in farm debt mediation work, acting as an advocate for the farmer. This type of work is far more time consuming and stressful and has led to an unsustainable workload for only one counsellor. As a result, the service has been forced to employ
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another assistant, on a casual basis, to assist the rural counsellor with the increasing workload.

Subsequently this casual position has progressed, on a demand basis, to approximately 30 hours per week to keep up with the increased workload. It is now obvious that a full-time additional counsellor is required to fulfil the demands being placed on the office by the clientele. In addition to this increase in workload, the service is also being asked to contribute to an increasing number of rural industry reviews and offer opinions on industry issues such as the effect of the withdrawal of banks from rural communities. This is, therefore, having a significant affect on the overall workload and will ultimately lead to counsellor stress and burnout if additional financial assistance is not provided by way of the employment of a second counsellor.

When the service was first set up, it was located in the grounds of Bloomfield Hospital, which was an advantage to the cost of running the service as the rent was donated back to the service. However, this had a detrimental affect on clients who were loath to attend interviews as they were concerned they would be labelled as having a mental problem because they were seen on the grounds of the hospital. Therefore, due to the necessity to move to larger premises because of the increased workload and the inappropriateness of the service being located within a mental hospital, it was decided to relocate the service. Unfortunately this had a negative effect on the budget, because the service now has to pay $9,000 rent per year.

I am aware that earlier this year, additional funding was given to the Macquarie Rural Advisory Service in Dubbo to employ a second counsellor. I ask that the Government provide an additional $50,000 to fund an additional counsellor for the Central West Rural Financial Counselling Service. The demand for the service is expected to increase over the next 12 months as farmers in this area continue to experience the after-effects of drought, low cattle prices, low pome fruit prices and the ever increasing prevalence of ovine Johne’s disease.

Even though there has been an upturn in the wool market recently, producers do not expected a large return, because farmers cannot afford the high costs involved in the purchase of additional stock. In addition, there is the additional burden of the continuing drought, which is linked to the El Niņo phenomenon. The workload of the Rural Counselling Service has also increased as a result of banks becoming more heavy handed with rural clients, especially those who have been unable to reduce their debt. The service is now seeing a number of clients with 80 per cent to 90 per cent equity, who are experiencing bank problems. This trend is likely to continue as the banks move more towards cashflow lending rather than equity lending.

The average equity of rural counselling clients in the Cabonne shire - 35.5 per cent of all clients - has risen to 73 per cent in the last 12 months. Even though equity levels are rising, the average client is still suffering cashflow problems indicating mounting financial problems in this region. These problems are exacerbated by the fact that banks are centralising or rationalising their operations, pulling out of rural communities and pushing clients towards seeking advice from rural counselling services as they refuse to offer rural clients a service without large imposts. A breakdown of the areas covered by the central west service includes Cabonne, Evans and Blayney.

Mr AMERY (Mount Druitt - Minister for Agriculture) [4.42 p.m.]: I thank the honourable member for Orange for raising this matter. I acknowledge the great role that rural counsellors play, as would the honourable member for Bathurst from his championing of the Farm Debt Mediation Bill. The honourable member for Orange referred to the increased workload for many financial counsellors. The arrangement with funding for financial counsellors is that basically 50 per cent of funds come from the Federal Government, 25 per cent from the State Government, and the remaining 25 per cent is contributed by the community, on a needs basis. In some areas the Government has picked up the community contribution where its funds were short.

In past years, because of the severe drought, the State Government has picked up that contribution. In the future, as rural conditions improve, communities will return to the practice of contributing 25 per cent. Financial counsellors provide valuable financial advice to farming families experiencing financial difficulties. Counsellors are an excellent source of advice to farmers who are stressed when banks approach them. Counsellors advise farmers whether they should remain on the farm or leave and take up another occupation.

I assure the honourable member for Orange that I will seriously consider the application by the Central West Financial Counselling Service for extra funding. As the honourable member pointed out, the Government has provided extra funding to the Macquarie service. Pressure is placed on counselling services to look at their overheads; the central west service has incurred a charge of $9,000 a year in
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rent as a result of a change of venue. I will ensure that this matter is thoroughly investigated and I will reply directly to the honourable member for Orange in the near future.

Mr TRIPODI (Fairfield) [4.44 p.m.]: I highlight the importance of flood mitigation funding in the Fairfield electorate and commend the Government for honouring its commitment to this important measure, but I condemn the Federal Government for its decision to abolish the urban flood mitigation program. The Federal Government, during the last election campaign, promised that its flood plain management grant program would be not only continued but increased. However, it axed most of its funding for flood plain management in the budget, including the Prospect Creek flood mitigation scheme, and reneged on its promise of additional funding.

As a result of representations to the Federal Government by Fairfield council and the State Government, a joint funding allocation of $1.5 million was secured for the Prospect Creek flood mitigation work. The funds allowed for the continued implementation of the lower Prospect Creek flood plain management plan, which included channel improvement works and continuation of the successful house-raising project. These funds were also utilised to complete the reconstruction of the Konemanns Bridge at Vine Street, which now provides flood-free access to Fairfield via Vine Street. In the 1995-96 financial year, $200,000 funding was allocated by the Minister for Land and Water Conservation towards Fairfield City Council’s urban flood drainage works. This allocation was used for the partial upgrading of St Elmo’s drain in Fairlight Avenue.

I had the pleasure of visiting the beneficiaries of that funding allocation, the Veneziani family, who have lived in front of an open drain for more than 30 years. Had it not been for the Minister’s intervention and funding the family probably would have continued to live under those terrible conditions. Prior to the allocation of this funding, residents were forced to endure an horrific stench from the stagnant water. The stench was created by an accumulation of rubbish and overgrown vegetation on the bank of the drain, which prevented the free flow of water. The safety risk posed by the open drain remained uppermost in the minds of residents following a death in 1985 in the upstream section of the drain.

My constituents whose properties border the remaining 150-metre unconstructed section of St Elmo’s drain deserve better. Why should they continue to suffer the unpleasantness of an open drain when their nearby neighbours have benefited immensely from flood mitigation work? Of major concern to both me and Fairfield City Council is the abolition by the Federal Government of the urban flood mitigation program, which effectively reduces $1 million from council’s annual budget for urban flood mitigation works. The State Government continues to recognise the importance of flood mitigation works and to honour its commitment to alleviate the problem of flooding. It is obvious, however, that the commitment is not being matched by the Federal Government. I have reason to once again approach the State Government with a request that it fill in a gap created by Federal Government cuts.

The Fairfield local government area is suffering enormously through the election of the Howard Government. Cuts and reforms have been made across the board, the most severe of which affect child care and old-age care. Flood mitigation was always addressed in my area under the previous Federal Labor Government. The issue, which is of enormous concern to residents of the Fairfield and Cabramatta electorates, was championed by the late John Newman, the former member for Cabramatta, and is currently being promoted by the present member for Cabramatta. The ruthless decision of the Federal Government not to provide funding has in effect put all people in the area at continuing risk and prevents them from being able to sell their properties, making them prisoners of the area. Once again I ask the State Government to fill a gap left by Federal Government cuts. There is a need to provide alleviation to residents who are at risk from floods. It is to be hoped that the State Government will be able to improve the quality of their lives, as it has for the Veneziani family.

Mr FACE (Charlestown - Minister for Gaming and Racing, and Minister Assisting the Premier on Hunter Development) [4.49 p.m.]: I shall refer the concerns of the honourable member for Fairfield to the relevant Minister. The honourable member is right in expressing his concerns. As he has indicated, this problem is not new for the Fairfield area. It was first identified by a local member even before the time of the late John Newman - Eric Bedford, who, in the mid-1970s warned that a real problem would result from urban encroachment and, frankly, very bad planning. The matter was also raised by Janice Crosio after an horrific flood that claimed lives. The situation finally
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came to a head and many of the predictions made by Eric Bedford came true. It was then, after an appropriate flood plan was identified by the State Government of the time, that the Federal and State governments began flood mitigation work in the area.

It is to be regretted that the Federal Government has chosen to cut this program, as it has cut so many others. The area faces the threat of flood and, as indicated by the honourable member for Fairfield, many health problems associated with the stagnant water in the water catchment area - virtually from Smithfield through the Fairfield area, with which I am familiar. Along with the honourable member for Fairfield, I realise that we are not likely to get much sympathy from the Federal Government in its present mood of making cuts, and I shall refer the matter to the relevant Minister. As the honourable member has pointed out, the State is expected to fill the gaps every time the Federal Government makes a callous decision.

Mr FRASER (Coffs Harbour) [4.51 p.m.]: This evening I raise the subject of last night’s gag, the Drug Misuse and Trafficking Amendment Bill. That legislation is a damnation on the Government and on honourable members who voted for it. The amendment means that police officers will probably turn their backs on possession charges for dealers. Coffs Harbour has the reputation of attracting people from Sydney who move there to live the easy life, slip out into the forest and find a plot of land to grow marijuana. Not only in Coffs Harbour but across the State we have a judiciary that is failing to implement laws passed by the Parliament. The second reading speech of the Minister for Health stated that the judiciary was not reflecting the laws of the Parliament or community expectations.

I have a message for the Government and the Parliament: my community abhors the use of gateway drugs such as marijuana and it abhors the fact that magistrates in this State impose extremely lenient sentences. Recently in the Coffs Harbour area the cultivation of 400 cannabis plants attracted a $250 fine. I abhor the fact that last night this House passed legislation that will allow people in possession of 90 marijuana cigarettes to be fined by a court but not to be gaoled. As the Leader of the National Party said last night when he had the opportunity to speak in the debate - before debate was gagged - the National Party is active against drugs, will continue to be active against drugs and will not support legislation such as the stuff pushed through the House last night.

Communities are suffering because of drugs. I was visited by the headmaster of a school from my electorate who told me that he had had to visit parents to tell them that their children were not performing to expectation and appeared to be half asleep until lunchtime. The headmaster deduced that the children’s problem was that their parents were smoking marijuana in the home, which had affected the children until lunchtime the following day. Marijuana is a gateway drug that puts people onto heroin. The National Party, via its policy committee on drugs, has formulated a policy for the introduction of a naltrexone rapid detoxification treatment for heroin users and for sentences of 50 years for drug dealers. Instead of having soft legislation that does not provide for appropriate gaol sentences, the National Party in government - which it will be in 1999, because this legislation will be torn apart by the electorate - will ensure that convicted dealers will be gaoled for 50 years, and will reduce the amounts deemed to be commercial quantities of drugs.

Under the Drug Misuse and Trafficking Amendment Bill a commercial quantity of cannabis is 100 kilograms. I suggest that a commercial quantity of cannabis is five kilograms. The Government is allowing 30 grams, the equivalent of 90 marijuana cigarettes, for personal use. However, someone charged with selling tobacco cigarettes - which have a lower carcinogenic level than marijuana - to a youth between the ages of 16 and 18 is liable to be fined $5,000 and someone charged with selling alcohol to a child of that age is also liable to be fined $5,000, and to receive a gaol term for subsequent offences.

On the day that the Minister for Police, with the Commissioner for Police, stated in the Jubilee Room that the Government would get tough on drug dealers, the Government rushed through without sufficient debate legislation that will let dealers - and people in possession of 30 grams of cannabis are dealers - off the hook. The honourable member for Cabramatta, who is in the Chamber, and the Premier speak often about being hard on drugs in Cabramatta, yet the exact opposite is provided by way of legislation. The Government should be damned for what it has done. The people of Coffs Harbour do not and will not support the Government’s action, and the Labor Party will pay for that at the next election.

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Mr FACE (Charlestown - Minister for Gaming and Racing, and Minister Assisting the Premier on Hunter Development) [4.56 p.m.]: I will refer the policy speech of the honourable member for Coffs Harbour to the Attorney General. As someone who has been on both sides of the fence, I note that it contained the fanciful comments trotted out by the National Party from time to time.

Mr IEMMA (Hurstville) [4.57 p.m.]: I refer to the continuing saga of detectives John Edlund and Mat Casey that I referred to last week and that I have referred to on many occasions in this House. On 22 May extreme action was taken against Detective Edlund immediately following a senior officer’s allegation that Edlund had threatened him. Edlund was humiliated because his firearm was confiscated, he was suspended, directed not to contact or approach anyone and escorted off the Goulburn police academy campus in disgrace. In short, he was treated like a criminal, but he was not asked for his side of the story. On 5 June Edlund requested specific details of the alleged threat and complained to the principal of the academy that any such allegation was false and malicious. This was also contained in a letter of 6 June. Edlund has advised that the reply from the principal did not seek his side of the story.

On 6 June Edlund again alleged that he had been set up and requested specific details of the alleged threat. Once again, no request was made for Edlund’s version of events. On 22 July Edlund provided what he claimed was conclusive proof that he had been set up and that the allegation made by the senior officer was false. The material was provided to Assistant Commissioner Nixon, and Commissioner Ryan was informed. That evidence is in the form of a tape recording and transcript of a conversation which forms the basis of the senior officer’s allegation, but no action was taken. What was the real reason for Detective Edlund’s suspension? On 4 July Edlund was cleared of any impropriety in relation to unlawful use of a police computer and the principal of the academy informed him that the investigation had raised no question about his work performance. The assistant commissioner was not informed. The principal informed Edlund that no position was available for him at Goulburn and requested that he accept a transfer.

On 11 July Mahoney, the principal of the academy, informed Edlund that positions were available in either Campbelltown or Queanbeyan. Edlund informed Mahoney that he would seek a medical discharge from the Police Service. Mahoney later informed Assistant Commissioner Nixon of Edlund’s stated intention to seek a medical discharge, but failed to inform her that he had been cleared of the allegations concerning the computer and that the senior officer’s complaint would not be investigated. On 15 July Edlund was informed by Superintendent Barbara Galvin that the allegation made by the senior officer would not be investigated. On 21 July Edlund wrote to the principal requesting clarification of his position. No action was taken by the academy to rescind Edlund’s suspension. On 21 July Assistant Commissioner Nixon was made aware by Detective Casey that Edlund had been cleared of impropriety in relation to the computer access and that the senior officer’s allegation would not be investigated. On 20 September Assistant Commissioner Nixon formally rescinded Edlund’s suspension.

The information I have outlined to the House gives rise to a number of questions. Why was no action taken at the academy to rescind John Edlund’s suspension? Why were the results of the computer access inquiry withheld from the assistant commissioner? If John Edlund’s welfare was the motivation for his removal, why was he treated in such a disgraceful and insensitive fashion? Why was such brutal treatment meted out to him? The victimisation of Edlund is symptomatic of the treatment meted out to him and to Casey since 1994. It has its origins in a speech I made when this House passed a motion expressing concern at the standard of management of the police academy at Goulburn. During that speech I quoted from Mat Casey’s comments to an internal police inquiry into the management of the academy. This victimisation was manifested shortly after my speech when an anonymous complaint was made about Casey. The initial inquiry was conducted and a full criminal investigation was recommended.

Mat Casey was removed from his position. A huge investigation lasting 18 months was conducted in 1994-95 by the former police integrity branch, a unit normally targeting gross and serious corruption in the New South Wales Police Service. Up to six officers were used and the matter was given a higher priority than the investigation into the activities of the Gosford drug unit, which came to prominence in the police royal commission. The investigation, which was conducted with extraordinary vigour, revealed a large range of administrative charges relating to bookkeeping errors laid against the two officers to whom I have referred.

During the course of the inquiry improper methods were used to attempt to access the private
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records of Mat Casey’s wife. During the course of the investigation Mat Casey was removed from his position by Assistant Commissioner Ken Moroney and to this day has never been given an explanation for that move. He was transferred to Sydney by Moroney without any prior warning. He had to read about it after it had happened. He was, in effect, sent to coventry, destroying what had been a promising and successful career. John Edlund suffered a similar fate. He was removed from his duties, isolated within the academy, shunted to the Goulburn police station and finally discarded from any effective role within the Police Service. His outstanding career was brought to nothing. In November 1996 I raised this matter in the House, and in January this year Superintendent Hobden of police internal affairs commenced an investigation into my claims. [Time expired.]

Mr FACE (Charlestown - Minister for Gaming and Racing, and Minister Assisting the Premier on Hunter Development) [5.02 p.m.]: I will refer the concerns raised by the honourable member for Hurstville, which have been raised on several occasions, to the Minister for Police.

Mr SMALL (Murray) [5.03 p.m.]: The issue that I raise is of great concern because New South Wales is about to lose a positive and well-developed business to Victoria. The business in question is Chalmers Nurseries. Bruce and Jenny Chalmers have set up a vineyard nursery. They have established a marvellous business and have invested at least $2.5 million. Theirs is a very big export industry and they also supply a number of local producers with grapes for consumption and for use in wine making. The problem is that the Chalmers live in the Western Lands Division of New South Wales and have been seeking security of land title. Unfortunately, they have not been able to achieve that aim in respect of the 70 hectares of land they have developed, which has caused great concern and heartache. Mr and Mrs Chalmers have employed up to 150 people of 17 nationalities, including five Aborigines. Most of them come from within the Euston and Robinvale areas.

The Chalmers’ property is situated beside the Murray River, west of Balranald and east of Euston. The Wik decision has caused no end of problems. I give credit to Jeff Wise, director and commissioner for the Western Lands Division at Dubbo, who has done all he can to solve the problem. He and I have worked hard to try to assist, as has the Balranald Shire Council. I received a phone call today from Stephen O’Halloran, mayor of Balranald Shire Council, who has advised me that although the Chalmers’ property cannot be finalised and they are unable to obtain title to the land or secure leasehold title, the situation is that the Western Lands Division has approved the operation of two gypsum mines by changing the purpose of land use. If that can be done for gypsum mines, why can it not be done for the nursery industry? The problem is that in recent weeks two local claims have been lodged under the Native Title Act. Mark Dengate, a white Aboriginal activist, has caused a number of the problems.

It is very discouraging and not very helpful to other Aborigines in the district who do not agree with the claims that Mr Dengate has made. Naturally, the Chalmers family is upset because they were hoping to get the Aborigines on side and to get security of title. They now say there is no point in arguing because they are not getting anywhere. Unfortunately, the Premier did not even list the Western Lands Division on the schedule for the Federal Government to deal with and that has not helped. I have spoken to the Premier and I have written and spoken to the Minister for Land and Water Conservation. I know this is a difficult problem. Overcoming Aboriginal land claims is not an easy matter but I believe opportunities existed to prevent the loss of this wonderful industry to Victoria.

I like to think that that is still a possibility. It is an absolute disgrace that New South Wales has not been able to retain such an important export industry. The company has very considerable exports, and also services local markets. I call on the Premier and the Minister for Land and Water Conservation to make a last ditch effort to try to help Mr and Mrs Chalmers. As I stated earlier, titles have been approved for mining and I cannot see why titles cannot be approved for nurseries. Under those circumstances I call on members of this House, the Premier, and the Prime Minister, to get their act together and attend to the Wik 10-point plan that the Prime Minister needs to get through Parliament. I make those appeals on behalf of the Chalmers family as well as the Balranald shire, and also as the local member.

Mr FACE (Charlestown - Minister for Gaming and Racing, and Minister Assisting the Premier on Hunter Development) [5.08 p.m.]: The honourable member for Murray has raised some important points. I will refer them to the Minister for Land and Water Conservation.

Ms MEAGHER (Cabramatta) [5.09 p.m.]: This evening I pay tribute to members of the New South Wales Khmer community who are hosting a seminar on the effect of antipersonnel landmines on Sunday, 2 November, at the Khmer temple in
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Bonnyrigg. In addition, they will be circulating a petition and embarking on an aggressive letter-writing campaign aimed at raising community awareness of the devastating impact landmines have on civilians during peace time and demanding that the Federal Government take more decisive action, both domestically and internationally, on this issue. Perhaps the most alarming reality about landmines is that they are not designed to kill people but to injure them. They are weapons designed to remove soldiers from the battlefield, place tremendous strain on hospital resources and destroy soldier morale. They are also indiscriminate, with dire humanitarian consequences. They do not distinguish between war and peace, civilian or soldier. Women collecting firewood, inquisitive children, innocent farmers and international aid workers are among their victims.

Since World War II, an estimated 400 million landmines have been laid in various parts of the world. The American State Department has estimated that more than 85 million uncleared mines are scattered in 62 countries and as many as another five million are laid each year. According to estimates of the United Nations it would cost $33 billion and take almost 1,200 years to clear active landmines already in place. This is an issue of enormous concern to the Indo-Chinese community that I represent. During the Vietnam war huge numbers of mines were scattered across Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam and are still there today. A vast majority of my constituents from these areas have relatives who have been injured by landmines. Landmines continue to maim and kill civilians long after hostilities have ceased. About 30 people a day are killed and up to 60 are maimed by landmines. It is estimated that one in every 250 Cambodians has been maimed by anti-personnel landmines.

The insidious nature and longevity of these weapons result in the atrocities of war being a daily reality for many around the world during peace time. It is a reality that should no longer be tolerated by the international community. Australia has a commendable record on this issue. In April 1996 the Ministers for foreign affairs and defence jointly announced support for a global ban on production, stockpile, use and transfer of anti-personnel landmines. The Australian Government also announced the immediate suspension of its operational use of landmines, to be reviewed only in the case of a substantial deterioration in our strategic circumstances. However, regrettably we failed to join with South Africa and give a commitment to destroy our stockpiles. Furthermore, a global ban has been frustrated by the position of countries like China and Russia who have profited enormously from the manufacture and sale of mines.

I welcome the opportunity to place on the public record my support for the New South Wales Khmer community’s campaign for a global ban on the production, stockpiling and use of landmines. I join with them in urging the Federal Government to abandon its cautious approach and to take a leading role in the Ottawa process at the end of the year to ensure a global ban becomes a reality. It is important that the Federal Government is sent a clear message that more needs to be done in this area, and it is through local campaigns, petitioning and media attention that popular momentum can be harnessed to change government policy.

I also take this opportunity to congratulate the Khmer community of New South Wales on their tireless efforts in advancing the status of Khmer refugees and immigrants, particularly in western Sydney, and providing valuable support for the resettlement process. The Khmer community works tirelessly to ensure that as well as promoting pride in Australia, the integrity of Khmer culture is preserved. The Khmer community should be congratulated on its contribution to the cultural diversity and economic vitality of western Sydney. I also take this opportunity to urge the community that I represent to support the campaign for a global ban on landmines and to help put an end to the needless suffering of millions of innocent civilians.

Mr FACE (Charlestown - Minister for Gaming and Racing, and Minister Assisting the Premier on Hunter Development) [5.14 p.m.]: The honourable member for Cabramatta is to be congratulated on her contribution in regard to landmines. It is true that many of her constituents come from countries that are beset with problems of landmines and quite rightly want their global effect banned. Of all the tools of war, landmines, which maim innocent people, mainly women and children, are probably the most hideous and highlight the futility of war. Diana, Princess of Wales, highlighted this to the world. It would not be the most popular quest for any person, especially someone with her background, yet by her example, and probably more so since her subsequent death, the hideousness of these tools of war has been highlighted. I find it remarkable that the Federal Government, which has always fought for peace, is not taking a more active role in the call for a global ban on landmines as a matter of urgency.

Ms SEATON (Southern Highlands) [5.16 p.m.]: I speak this evening in support of Hill Top and Colo Vale schools in the northern villages of
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my electorate. The schools have worked hard to ensure that they receive long-awaited upgraded playground facilities and also to secure reassurance on the budget timetable for badly needed permanent school buildings. I congratulate the schools on working in tandem on their similar requirements. The schools are situated only a few kilometres down the road from each other and share similar needs. They have been working hard to get the resources and the facilities they need. Both of them have severe playground problems. If anyone wanted to demonstrate to schoolchildren what the Mars landscape looked like, a trip to Hill Top or Colo Vale would be the perfect field excursion. Their playgrounds are akin to a desert landscape, with very little topsoil and lots of dangerous rocks that can cause injuries to children’s knees. Hill Top in particular is cold and windy, and dust and wind-borne grit cause problems with the eyes of children and staff.

I congratulate the principals of both schools, and also Ray Aitkin and Peter Stuart of the schools’ respective parents and citizens associations, for fighting so hard for the upgrade. It has now happened and it will be my pleasure to join those schools next week for their opening ceremonies. These playground works are only a fraction of the needs of the schools. The schools are situated in a high-growth area of the southern highlands. Hill Top has 240 students and Colo Vale has 270. Both schools operate in a sea of demountable buildings. The occupational health and safety and security problems associated with these demountable buildings are obvious. It is a very windy part of my electorate. There is inadequate hall space and wet weather protection.

Access to demountable buildings is difficult. Students have to walk along narrow concrete pathways and because the buildings do not afford the necessary security for high-value equipment like computers and musical instruments, they have to be stored in another building. Every time they are to be used in a classroom they have to be carried by staff and students. That again is not an ideal situation. The toilets at the schools are also demountables, which is less than ideal. Hill Top school has only two permanent buildings; the rest are demountables. Colo Vale school has a similar situation. Both schools have dedicated staff and terrific principals who are innovative in the way they use their space, but I believe Hill Top and Colo Vale students deserve a lot better. I have had many meetings with
parents and citizens and with the principals of the schools. All these groups are working well together. They seek not special treatment but simply reassurance about when the permanent building program will become a reality. The property people from the Department of School Education have worked with the schools on the exciting concepts and designs. The department admits that the buildings are needed.

Both schools had high hopes that these programs would be included in the last budget, but unfortunately they were not. I will be working with the schools to make sure that the growth area of the northern villages of the shire, with many undeveloped blocks of land, gets these permanent facilities. I seek the Minister’s assurance on those matters. Related to this issue is the northern villages out-of-school hours - OOSH - service which provides a much needed service in Hill Top and Colo Vale. That service is having trouble getting the transport facilities that it needs to do the best job. Despite huge demand for these services in remote village areas with transport problems, and despite many families having two working parents, children who need the OOSH service cannot use it because of the lack of school bus transport and the restrictions on who can use the service and when it can be used.

I will make further representations to the Minister for Transport to urge him to sympathetically consider ways to help working parents gain access to this excellent service in the northern villages. I take the opportunity to congratulate Jane Vainsaar, her committee, and Lorenzo Capidiferro for their commitment to the project. I hope it is possible to get a marriage between the necessary bus transport services, the OOSH service and the school so that people can have their needs as working parents met, and so that the children can be adequately and safely cared for.

Mr FACE (Charlestown - Minister for Gaming and Racing, and Minister Assisting the Premier on Hunter Development) [5.21 p.m.]: I will refer the matters raised by the honourable member for Southern Highlands about two schools at Hill Top and Colo Vale to the Minister for Education and Training, and also to the Minister for Transport.

Private members’ statements noted.