Full Day Hansard Transcript (Legislative Assembly, 17 September 1997, Corrected Copy)

Mr Speaker (The Hon. John Henry Murray) took the chair at 10.00 a.m.

Mr Speaker offered the Prayer.

Mr SPEAKER: I report the receipt of a message from His Excellency the Governor convening, on 17 September at 3.30 p.m., a joint sitting of the members of the Legislative Council and the Legislative Assembly for the purpose of the election of a person to fill the seat in the Legislative Council vacated by the Hon. Patricia Jane Staunton. I direct that the joint sitting with the Legislative Council in the Legislative Council Chamber for the election of a member of the Legislative Council be set down as an order of the day for 3.30 p.m. this day.

Mr SPEAKER: I report the receipt of a message from His Excellency the Governor transmitting to the Legislative Assembly a copy of a dispatch dated 10 September 1997 received from the Governor-General of the Commonwealth of Australia notifying that a vacancy had happened in the representation of the State of New South Wales in the Senate of the Commonwealth of Australia through the resignation of Senator Bruce Kenneth Childs on 10 September.

Motion, by leave, by Mr Whelan, on behalf of Mr Carr, agreed to:

That at the joint sitting in the Legislative Council Chamber convened by His Excellency the Governor for 3.30 p.m. this day the House continue to sit with the Legislative Council for the purpose of voting together to choose a person to hold the place in the Senate rendered vacant by the resignation of Senator Bruce Kenneth Childs.

Message sent to the Legislative Council advising it of the resolution.

Mr CARR (Maroubra - Premier, Minister for the Arts, and Minister for Ethnic Affairs) [10.03 a.m.], by leave: I move:

That this House:

(1) expresses its deepest sympathy to the families and friends of those who were killed and to those who were injured in the landslide at Thredbo village on 30 July 1997;

(2) commends the efforts and sacrifices of rescuers and support teams in the extremely delicate and difficult operations following the landslide.

One of the most difficult jobs I have had as Premier was to meet the families of people who had vanished under the rubble in the landslide. I record that I appreciated the assistance on that difficult occasion of the honourable member for Monaro, as I appreciated his advice throughout the time the landslide was being addressed by the rescue workers. It was a shocking tragedy, and it touched the people of this State as the Granville train disaster and the Newcastle earthquake touched the people of the State. Let us remember each of those who died: Dianne Elizabeth Ainsworth, John Anthony Cameron, Barry Decker, Sally Sophia Diver, Diane Lee Hoffman, Werner Jecklin, Oscar Luhn, Andrew Stuart McArthur, Stephen Moss, Wendy O’Donohue, Aino Senbruns, Mariam Sodergren, Mike Sodergren, Mary Phillips, David Glenn Watson, Colin John Warren, Anthony Weaver and Stephen Urosevic.

Let us also wish Stuart Diver all the best as he makes the arduous journey towards physical and emotional recovery. To a large degree the Thredbo disaster will be synonymous with his name. In the days following the landslide we all shared the shock, the disbelief and the hope of the families and friends of the victims, and today we acknowledge their grief. Within minutes of this disaster police and rescue and emergency services set in train a disaster plan. Within the first hour a command had been established at Thredbo. This was a very great achievement. As one of the workers said to me on my first visit, the disaster plan just clicked. We can count ourselves lucky that Australian disaster
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organisations exhibit such a high degree of professionalism. If a disaster such as this had occurred on any other continent I doubt that there would have been the professionalism that there was at Thredbo.

Another worker at Thredbo said to me, "We could have all been wearing the same uniform." He meant that from whatever organisation they came they worked together towards a common goal. The staff and volunteers from the State Emergency Service, police, fire brigades, rural fire service, Ambulance Service, National Parks and Wildlife Service, Red Cross, St Vincent de Paul and the Salvation Army were singleminded. They showed teamwork and discipline. They all could have been wearing the same uniform as they set about the task of trying to get someone out of the rubble alive and to locate those who were dead under the rubble.

In the past we have come together as a community when faced with tragedies such as the Newcastle earthquake or the Granville train disaster. As I said on my third visit to Thredbo, this kind of thing brings us together as a community. It reminds us all that we are a community. When one part of the community of New South Wales hurts the rest of us have to offer assistance - be it in response to a natural disaster or to an economic disaster such as what happened at Newcastle with the BHP decision and what has happened at Lithgow. We come together as a community because we know that we must think as a community. We must look after the regions and the people who are hurt by disasters of whatever type.

The Government put together a rescue package which I announced at Thredbo. It will help redevelop the key industry of the region on which all else depends, namely, tourism. Those seeking to assist the community of Thredbo can do so by visiting the area as tourists and showing confidence in the region, in the safety of the village, and appreciating the appeal of that beautiful valley. I again thank the rescue workers. I congratulate them through the Minister for Emergency Services, who was involved with me and who shared my deep concern for the victims of the tragedy and my great appreciation of those involved in the rescue. I express my appreciation to the local member, the honourable member for Monaro, for the advice he gave to the Government throughout this disaster and for the care he showed for the people under the rubble, the families and the wider community of that region.

The disaster has brought us together. It has made us appreciate the quality of the emergency services in this State. Our disaster plans do work. They repay the effort that has been put into them. The people came together with remarkable professionalism. We recall those who are not with us. I read their names out. We extend our condolences to their families, who are still suffering the terrible grief that comes from such an inexplicable loss. On Sunday at Government House we will honour those involved in the rescue operation. We will seize this opportunity, as I am sure the Minister can confirm, to learn every lesson to be learned from the disaster so that when there is another disaster in New South Wales we are even more professional and effective in dealing with it because of this terrible unwanted experience of the Thredbo tragedy.

Mr COLLINS (Willoughby - Leader of the Opposition) [10.09 a.m.]: Just minutes before midnight on Wednesday, 30 July, the cold, night air at one of our premier tourist resorts was shattered by the sound of a tragedy Australians will never forget. In the seconds that followed hundreds of tonnes of earth gave way and slipped almost 100 vertical metres to the valley floor, carrying with it the Carinya and Bimbadeen ski lodges and the 19 individuals who were sleeping inside. For the next week the eyes of the nation, indeed, sometimes the world, fell on that ugly scar which was ripped into the hillside at Thredbo Alpine Village as rescuers began the painstaking process of searching for survivors buried deep beneath the rubble.

In the days that followed we watched with immense sadness as rescuers removed the bodies of those who had died in the landslide. As time passed it seemed impossible that anybody would have survived the terrible destruction. Our worst fears seemed to be confirmed by rescuers, who reported that thermal imaging cameras and seismic microphones had failed to detect any sign of life. After three days had passed rescuers reported the miraculous news that a survivor had been located. In the hours that followed, the nation held its breath as rescuers removed that single survivor, Stuart Diver, from what remained of the crushed Bimbadeen staff lodge.

Stuart Diver’s rescue is a testament to the incredible work, under extremely difficult circumstances, of our emergency workers. Battling temperatures as low as minus 11, working in the most inhospitable climate in Australia, praying that the August blizzards would stay away, testing new rescue technology, and racing against the clock, the men and women who comprised those tireless rescue teams earned the respect and admiration of every Australian. The television images which filled that
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week conveyed a sense of drama, but those who visited the site will best understand the size of the scar, the gradient of the slope and the enormity of the tragedy. Indeed, my first impression driving into Thredbo Alpine Village was that the camera can lie. On television we had witnessed hour after hour and day after day rescue attempts on what appeared to be a far more horizontal surface than was actually the case.

Driving into Thredbo and glimpsing a side view of that site gave me an immediate and indelible impression of the vertical surface, of the slippage that had occurred and of the danger that remained. Thredbo Alpine Village had lost 18 permanent residents. No-one in the village was untouched. At the height of the Thredbo rescue operation more than 1,000 people worked together carrying debris, securing the site, managing the media, or providing food or shelter for the rescuers. As the Premier correctly said, one of those involved was a member of this Parliament - the honourable member for Monaro. I pay tribute to his effort, which was typical of the effort of hundreds involved with rescue teams the length and breadth of New South Wales. That sense of common purpose was conveyed by the media, which, with few exceptions, covered the tragedy with professionalism, sensitivity and dignity. I pay tribute overall to the media coverage of what happened at Thredbo.

The job ahead of us is to help mend the Thredbo community, to protect the tourism industry in that region and to see that such a tragedy never occurs again. The Thredbo community might put on a brave face, but the events of this winter will never be forgotten. Scores of residents, as well as the families of the victims, are still receiving counselling to console them in their grief. That grief will doubtless continue for years to come. The tourism industry might seem resilient, but it will always need our support. The New South Wales skiing industry must not just recover from the Thredbo tragedy; it must also combat other challenges such as the unpredictability of natural snowfalls and the increased competition from Victorian snowfields like Mount Hotham, where Premier Jeff Kennett will soon open a jet airport offering direct flights from Sydney. Thredbo has an important place in our State’s history. We must protect that place.

The region was important even before the arrival of Europeans. The granite outcrops of the Ramshead Range, which soars high above the Thredbo valley, were home to local Aboriginal tribes who made the annual pilgrimage to the high country. It was in the Thredbo valley that the first European explorers of the high country, among them Baron Ferdinand Von Mueller and the artist Eugene von Guerard, sought shelter from the summer blizzards that often trapped new visitors unaware. Thredbo became our State’s most multicultural community as home to many of the immigrants who helped build the Snowy Mountains scheme in the 1950s and 1960s. We must recognise that in remembering Thredbo. But 1997 will be remembered as the saddest year in the rich history of Thredbo. It will be remembered for the valiant efforts of the rescuers; it will be remembered for the sadness, but also for the single miracle of Stuart Diver; it will be remembered for the faces of the 18 men and women who lost their lives in that tragic accident. We mourn with their families and friends. We share the sadness of all Australians, and we will pledge today to rebuild the community. I join with the Premier in commending this motion to the House.

Mr DEBUS (Blue Mountains - Minister for Corrective Services, Minister for Emergency Services, and Minister Assisting the Minister for the Arts) [10.16 a.m.]: The landslide at Thredbo on 30 July resulted in one of the most difficult and challenging operations faced by the emergency services organisations in this State and one that commanded international attention. The combination of a steep slope, boulders, concrete slabs, an underground water stream and the risk of further slippage created a unique and difficult set of circumstances for rescue workers as well as posing a constant threat to their safety. The event was clearly an emergency under the State Emergency and Rescue Management Act because it required a significant and co-ordinated response by emergency services agencies. Over the course of the operation I regularly consulted the State Emergency Operations Controller, Deputy Commissioner Beverly Lawson, to ensure that adequate resources were available to the emergency services agencies responding to that tragic event.

Those agencies include, of course, New South Wales Fire Brigades, the Police Service, the Ambulance Service, the State Emergency Service, the units of the Volunteer Rescue Association, the rural fire service and, indeed, local engineers and plant operators from the Cooma-Thredbo area, who were quite crucial in the rescue exercise. The deputy commissioner was always able to reassure me that he operation was being effectively controlled and co-ordinated at both district and local levels in accordance with the relevant disaster plans. I was able to see that co-ordination when I visited Thredbo
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with the Premier on Friday, 1 August, and again on Monday, 4 August, for the moving church service.

I was particularly pleased to observe the professionalism and co-operation with which personnel from the various rescue agencies went about the rescue part of the operation. A program of cross-agency emergency management and rescue training has greatly assisted in those co-operation arrangements. Certainly I was pleased and proud on many occasions during those dramatic days to see that an implement on the rescue site might have been passed from a police rescue officer to a fireman to an ambulance officer and perhaps further up the line to an SES volunteer and to a member of the VRA. As the Premier said, that co-operation was an outstanding characteristic of the events of those dramatic days.

I was impressed and encouraged by the adaptability of the disaster plans that were in place and of the emergency and rescue workers to what can be described only as a most unusual and protracted emergency situation. As I have often said, New South Wales emergency service workers are among the most professional and dedicated in the world, and the rescue operation at Thredbo more than bears out that claim. Stuart Diver is living testimony to their professionalism and dedication. They did themselves proud. On behalf of the Government I again congratulate all involved in what was undoubtedly one of the most difficult operations they have encountered. I also place on record my appreciation for the significant support that other States and the Australian Capital Territory provided. The service that the emergency service units provided at Thredbo is to be given special recognition at a ceremony at Government House this coming Sunday.

We all know that there are lessons to be learnt in even the most effective operations. To that end debriefings have been conducted at all levels, culminating in a rescue-specific debriefing conducted under the auspices of the State Rescue Board and a broader debriefing on the emergency management arrangements conducted under the auspices of the State Emergency and Rescue Management Committee chaired by the State Emergency Service operations controller, Deputy Commissioner Lawson. It is clear to me that New South Wales is now better prepared to respond to an emergency because of prudent emergency management planning at all levels.

The State Emergency and Rescue Management Act and the emergency management arrangements derived from it ensure that the State’s response to emergencies is co-ordinated and effective. I consider that the emergency management arrangements as they were applied in the Thredbo operation worked extremely well. Unfortunately the best laid emergency response arrangements will not prevent the occurrence of disasters such as occurred at Thredbo or the resultant untimely death of the victims. I join with other speakers in offering my condolences to the families and friends of the victims of the Thredbo disaster and to the entire Thredbo community, which has suffered but has begun to recuperate after the extraordinary events that we are speaking of today.

Mr ARMSTRONG (Lachlan - Leader of the National Party) [10.22 a.m.]: I join with the Premier, the Leader of the Opposition, the Minister for Emergency Services and other honourable members to express on behalf of the National Party of New South Wales our deepest sympathy to the families and friends of those who were killed and injured in the landslide at Thredbo on 30 July. I support unreservedly the motion before the House. Tragedies such as this emphasise the frailty of human life. As the Minister for Emergency Services indicated, one of the ramifications of such a tragedy is that we become better equipped to handle the next inevitable tragedy. Who would have thought when the House adjourned a couple of months ago that its first business on its return would be motions to express sympathy in relation to two horrific disasters - yesterday on the death of Diana, Princess of Wales, and today to the families and friends of those lost at Thredbo. Disasters are unpredictable. I remind honourable members of the Granville train disaster, the Newcastle earthquake and the Kempsey bus crash. Management of those tragedies makes us better equipped to deal with the next disaster, but the shock, horror and hurt that permeate the families of victims and the community are not in any way relieved.

As previous speakers have indicated, the efforts of the rescuers, emergency services personnel and volunteers who were not attached to the emergency services were outstanding. In summation, a greater autopsy has probably never been performed on the effectiveness of such services. The media was at the scene within a couple of hours of the landslide and remained until the mopping up. Their clinical analysis was excruciating, and they expressed a raft of opinions on the competency and adequacy of the emergency services. Yet in the main the services came up shining and received top marks. Comments from the victims’ families support those views and make us very proud of members of the emergency services - small business people; public servants; and retirees who, at the flick of a
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finger or on a telephone call, leave their business, occupation, home, family, sport or whatever they might be doing in a suburb of Sydney or a New South Wales country town and spring into action as highly efficient people who give comfort and hopefully relieve some of the trauma and damage of such disasters. That has been one of the great lessons to have come out of Thredbo.

One group that is sometimes forgotten is the surrounding community. They experienced the shock and horror, but they are not trained to handle such disasters; they are normal, frail human beings. We should remember them in disasters that affect an entire community such as the disaster at Thredbo. The people of the Monaro were superb in rising to the occasion and in accommodating the horrific changes that occurred. I am delighted that the Premier referred to the local member, the honourable member for Monaro. At the same time as the honourable member was advising the Premier and the Government of the progress of the rescue he was advising the Leader of the Opposition and me as the leader of his party. It was not easy for him to fulfil a number of functions because on this occasion, as is the case for most local members, the honourable member knew many of the victims who were under the rubble. Some were his friends. It is hard to make a clinical assessment and communicate on an abstract basis while fearing that a friend or close acquaintance might be dead or might die unless a miracle occurs. Once again that underscores the many unusual characteristics of this event.

Comment has been made about the media, as it was yesterday during debate on the condolence motion for Diana, Princess of Wales. We live in a new age of technology that has the capacity to flash television news around Australia and the world. We, the masses, are coming to grips with how to handle this instant communication of both the highs and lows of life. In the wash-up of the Thredbo disaster and the inevitable clinical analysis I hope we will grow to appreciate what a wonderful adjunct the new technologies are and the enormous advantage they offer the public, rescuers and victims if used properly and sensibly. On the other hand, there is a difficult learning process to go through to counter the invasion of people’s privacy. I am delighted that the media organisations and the media in general have taken a responsible attitude towards self-assessment of how to handle such disasters in the future. On behalf of the National Party I again express its sympathy and I look forward to hearing the speech of the local member, the honourable member for Monaro.

Ms ALLAN (Blacktown - Minister for the Environment) [10.29 a.m.]: Members of Parliament and the people of New South Wales were shocked to awaken on Thursday 31 July to the news that the Snowy Mountains holiday village of Thredbo had been hit by a devastating landslip. Today, a month and a half later, we know that 18 people lost their lives; the Premier named them in his contribution to this debate. Stuart Diver, through his incredible bravery and tenacity, survived for three days and four nights in a concrete tomb. To Stuart Diver I offer my sympathy on the loss of his wife, Sally, and my hope that he may resume his life in Thredbo with so many others who have lost family and friends.

Throughout New South Wales, Australia and other countries - because of Thredbo’s inevitable international connections many people from other countries were watching the news as well - families and friends of those killed at Thredbo are still grieving. My condolences and those of the Government are extended to each and every one of them for their loss. To the management and staff of Thredbo, who have lost key managers, staff members and colleagues, I offer my sincere sympathy and best wishes in ensuring that the company and the village return to as close to normality as before. I have visited Thredbo on many occasions, most recently only one week before the landslide occurred. It is a beautiful place with a warm and friendly atmosphere. I and many other members of Parliament look forward to returning to Thredbo.

Since this disaster, families and friends have drawn strength from the consistent and unyielding co-operation that occurred between all the emergency services, government departments, private organisations and individuals who worked at Thredbo to rescue those who were trapped. It was a selfless effort and a triumph of the human spirit. Many tributes have come in to all those involved in the rescue. Organisations such as the Police Service, New South Wales Fire Brigades, the Ambulance Service, the rural fire service brigade officers, the State Emergency Service volunteers, the Snowy Mountains Hydro-Electric Authority, the New South Wales Department of Health, the Department of Public Works and Services, local government, as well as staff from my department, the National Parks and Wildlife Service and the Environment Protection Authority worked around the clock with private individuals and community groups to rescue as many people as quickly as possible.

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Their efforts were supported by doctors, the Salvation Army, church groups, and the Snowy Mountains Child Care Centre, as well as a host of counsellors sent to help all to cope with the emotional trauma of the devastation. I have heard from my staff that the co-operation between the organisations was greater than they had ever seen before. The Premier and the Minister for Emergency Services also made that point in relation to emergency services personnel. It is a credit to the existing networks and committees that operate within the Snowy Mountains region that that high level of co-operation existed. That is a goal that we set our teams, but it is not until a disaster of this magnitude occurs that that level of co-operation is tested. These teams were tested at that time and, of course, they passed with flying colours.

Those who played a role in the rescue, whether on the human chains which moved the rubble or in support at any location at Thredbo or Jindabyne, should be congratulated on their efforts and on their co-operative spirit, which will continue into the future. The rescue operation has been completed but there is still a long haul for the people of Thredbo and the local communities. Rural communities and villages such as Thredbo always consist of people who support each other through tough times. In a small area most people will have been touched in some way.

The State Government has co-operated with the Federal Government to provide support funding towards the construction of a community centre in Thredbo. This will serve as a memorial to those who died in the landslip. The Government will support the community wherever it can. To every other person affected by this tragedy, I express my heartfelt condolences; to every rescuer involved, I extend my heartfelt thanks; to the management, staff and residents of Thredbo, I wish a speedy recovery. A coronial inquiry has been established to assess the causes of this disaster. As the Minister responsible for the National Parks and Wildlife Service I have a strong interest in the progress, as well as the outcome, of that inquest.

The National Parks and Wildlife Service is committed to full co-operation with the inquiry and has already undertaken a large amount of work. Of course, I will monitor closely the progress of the inquiry as well as its eventual findings and recommendations. If any recurrence of such a tragedy can be prevented it will be as a result of this inquiry. I commend the motion to the House.

Mr COCHRAN (Monaro) [10.35 a.m.]: I join with other members of the House, the Premier, the Leader of the Opposition, and the Leader of the National Party in supporting this motion. I express my deep sympathy to the relatives and friends of those who perished at Thredbo. On behalf of my electorate I express sincere thanks to all of those who were in any way involved in the rescue operations: the rescue workers and the support and welfare personnel. I also thank the Premier, who was always on call, the Leader of the Opposition and the Leader of the National Party for their support.

At 11.30 p.m. on 30 July an event took place which will remain in the minds of the residents of Thredbo and the Monaro electorate for generations. It was an extraordinarily traumatic time for the entire community and one which was handled in an exceptional manner by those who methodically went about their duties, as they have been trained to do. I will return to that later. All members of Parliament fear that at some stage they will be confronted with the responsibility of dealing with a tragedy such as this; and I am no exception. I was fortunate that, because of my paramilitary background and experience in Vietnam, death, drama and trauma were not new to me. I was able to handle the incident in a calmer way than most.

When I arrived at Thredbo on Thursday morning my first impressions were similar to those of the relatives - similar to feelings I had in Vietnam at various times - that not enough was being done, that the hierarchy did not know what it was doing: a feeling of helplessness. Emotions that I had not experienced for 30 years came flooding back. As is often the case in instances like this, a number of people demonstrated extraordinary leadership. As the Premier said, the people who attended the scene within minutes of the incident taking place took control of the situation in a calm and effective way which, no doubt, prevented further loss of life.

No-one could know the potential dangers that existed on that site. No-one was to know until daylight what a precarious situation existed and how it could have been fatal for people to start rummaging amongst the rubble that lay on the side of the hill. Approximately 4,000 or 5,000 tonnes of dirt had cascaded over the top of the two lodges. The decisions that were made in the early stages set the pace for the calm, deliberate and effective way that the rescue workers set about extracting the bodies which, no doubt, prevented further loss of life. They almost certainly prevented the loss of the life of Stuart Diver.

I want to single out in particular Charlie Sanderson. Charlie is a senior police officer, an
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inspector, who had been posted to that area only two weeks beforehand. He had come to my electorate from Lismore, and I am ever grateful to the honourable member for Lismore for that. He lost a good man and I gained one. It was somewhat ironic that, only a few days before, Charlie and I had a few - not cross, but deliberate - words on our philosophy about the reduction of police numbers in the precinct. We had not even met at that stage. But after that we formed a bond which, no doubt, will be everlasting.

This man could take his place in any military capacity. His ability to analyse a problem accurately, his ability to make an assessment of the situation that resulted in the safe progress of the operation, and his ability to make impeccable decisions are unequalled in any member of the police force I have ever met. His senior officer, Bruce Johnston, showed similar outstanding leadership. It was their control, their ability to calmly assess situations and their ability to make accurate analyses which saved lives. They were criticised about delays, but they had to balance their decisions between the conflicting emotions of wanting to prevent loss of lives amongst rescue workers and a burning desire to get into the rubble to save the lives of victims. There was an inevitable conflict between the rescue workers, represented by Charlie Sanderson, and the parents, relatives and friends of the victims.

I attended a meeting with the Premier, the Minister for Emergency Services, Charlie Sanderson, Bruce Johnston and friends and relatives. During the meeting emotions became so strong that we were obliged to explain, in fairly graphic terms, the situation on the site. A decision was then made to take the relatives to the site to enable them to view first-hand the situation that existed, as well as the obvious helplessness of the rescue workers and the difficult circumstances under which they were working. That viewing was a great relief to the emergency workers and the friends and relatives of the victims. Calls for haste in the operation were understandable, but it is to the credit of the leaders on the site and their self-discipline that they did not rush in with bulldozers to try to remove the wreckage, thus risking the lives of those who may have survived. A potential disaster was inevitable: balanced precariously on top of each other were slabs of concrete weighing 20 to 30 tonnes which could have slipped onto rescue workers and those trapped underneath. I pay tribute to those who made the difficult decisions.

On behalf of the community I feel obliged to mention the media. As the Leader of the National Party quite correctly said, the vast majority of the media acted very responsibly and gave worldwide coverage of which media resources in Australia can be proud. However, I sadly report one particular article in the Daily Telegraph which appeared a day or so after the event. I have lost track of time, but I have it recorded somewhere. The article alleged that emergency services had delayed their attempts to rescue the victims. It was an untimely speculation, it was inaccurate and it caused considerable grief to the friends and relatives of the victims, who then questioned the professionalism of the rescuers which, no doubt, caused a great deal of conflict and speculation that had rescue workers moved in earlier there may have been a greater hope of survival. The article also speculated about the cause of the disaster, which again was premature and unnecessary. It was apparent that a coroner would be appointed to investigate the incident, and that has occurred. The coroner is the appropriate person to report on the circumstances surrounding this tragedy. Piers Ackerman’s speculation in that article was not only untimely, but it was also irresponsible.

I should refer to other elements of the media that used techniques unacceptable by Australian standards. Several members of the media contacted me in support of my comments about some of the tactics used. On the day those unacceptable tactics were used I promised I would refer to them in the Parliament, and I shall. Peter Burns, a surveyor, was across the valley using a theodolite and a level of some sort to monitor the extent of the slippage. A member of the media placed an electronic listening device alongside the police radio Peter Burns was to use should slippage occur, so that the media could pass on the message to their outlets as to what was occurring on the site. In other words, members of the media were using this device to monitor the police radio. Such behaviour is reprehensible. If, as a member of Parliament, I were to use a listening device it would be deemed to be sacrilege and something for which I would lose my job, and so I should. As a consequence of the electronic listening device employed by some members of the media, the premature release of Stuart Diver’s name caused considerable anguish to members of both his family and his wife’s family. It was unnecessary.

At the church service on the Monday, attended by the Deputy Prime Minister, Tim Fischer, the electronic media was given an elevated area overlooking the church so that they could quite easily see the mourners and those inside the church. But one crew, not satisfied with that, broke the media lines, went down the side of the church with their cameras and started to film grieving relatives and friends inside the church. That type of unacceptable behaviour and intrusive journalism
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which should be condemned by all members of the media. I understand that subsequently police officers removed the film from the intrusive camera, and that in the scuffle a $20,000 lens was broken. There is some justice in the world. Another incident, which is unsubstantiated but reported from a number of circles, involved a journalist attempting to buy a State Emergency Services uniform to enable him to gain access to the perimeter of the site. It is unacceptable and unbelievable that anybody would go to such lengths to try to breach a perimeter established by the police.

The media needs to be regulated. Recent events in Paris have vindicated my claims. The code of ethics established by the Australian Journalists Association may be well intentioned, but it is not being observed, certainly by those who are not members of the Australian Journalists Association. All journalists should be obliged to abide by that code of ethics. If the Australian Journalists Association is not able to bring them into line, we will have to legislate to do it. The behaviour of some members of the media brought condemnation on those who act responsibly and brought disrepute to the entire media contingent at Thredbo. Shops at Thredbo and Jindabyne placed signs in their windows saying, "Media unwelcome" and "Media keep out", which is a fair indication of the feeling about the media in the area. Yet there is still no contrition amongst our local media.

The emergency plans put in place for a natural disaster, such as the one that occurred at Thredbo, worked impeccably. People often look at the brightly coloured uniforms of our emergency workers and think that some of those wearing them are poseurs or that they look like something out of Star Wars, but I can assure honourable members that the black uniforms with the yellow reflective banding were certainly very effective at night and no doubt they give rescue workers every opportunity of survival should anything untoward occur.

New technology was used at Thredbo which has not been used previously. The balloon lighting, which was used at great expense, had never been used anywhere in the world. It was first used at Thredbo and it proved to be an outstanding success. It is based on a helium-filled balloon with a globe inside, which throws a light out without shadow in the rescue area. No doubt it proved to be a great asset to those who worked in the darkness and cold at Thredbo. I congratulate the fire brigades, the bush fire brigades, the State Emergency Service, the ambulance and the police. State Emergency Service personnel - those who became known as the orange people - came of age during this emergency. In the past some people may have regarded the State Emergency Service as possibly less professional than other rescue organisations, but Major General Horrie Howard and his crew can be proud of the fact that they were very professional in their performance at Thredbo, and I commend them.

Extraordinary bravery and skill were demonstrated by local contractors working in a civilian capacity, the backhoe operators, the truck drivers and the concrete cutters, some of whom had come from as far away as Newcastle with experience gained after the Newcastle earthquake. They all performed admirably. Those people were not part of the emergency plan but had been seconded for a specific task related to a most unusual event, one that had not been witnessed to this extent in Australia in the past. I commend all of the local contractors, and I hope that by this time they have all been paid!

I also praise the efforts of individuals in Jindabyne and Thredbo. As is typical of the people of the Australian bush in times of adversity, they came out of hollow logs everywhere with offers to cook and give other support from home. One pensioner came from a hut in the mountains with pots of stew and some cooked vegetables for the rescue workers. A Taiwanese family in Sydney who rang to ask how they could assist were told that 900 pieces of fruitcake individually wrapped in plastic were needed. They arrived the next morning at 9 o’clock and were delivered to the rescue workers. The Salvation Army operated a sausage sizzle at the site and provided coffee on a non-stop basis, even when it started to rain and snow. [Extension of time agreed to.]

I pay particular tribute to Salvation Army personnel for their efforts. I was pleased to be standing alongside a Salvation Army officer at one stage when a Canberra man called me on my mobile phone to say that he wanted to make a donation to one of the charities to assist with the provision of foodstuffs. I told him that I would pass the phone to Bruce Chapman, the chaplain for the Salvation Army. I passed the phone to Bruce and the caller told him that he would donate $1,000 to the Salvation Army. That was the sort of generosity that the emergency evoked from the community. It was spontaneous and very welcome. The Department of Community Services in Cooma and Queanbeyan played a vital role providing counselling services and chaplains from all denominations from near and far to assist the families and friends of victims. Behind the scenes they catered for the emotions of
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those involved in the tragedy and, to a large degree, placated those suffering extreme anxiety in a way that one could not imagine.

I am delighted that students from Scone public school are in the gallery today to witness this debate related to the Thredbo tragedy. They have seen at first hand members of this House expressing their grief and extending their sympathy to the families of those involved and explaining to others in the gallery the events that took place and the tragedy of the Thredbo landslide. Students from Scone public school will be able to report to their fellow students that they witnessed the debate during which members of the New South Wales Parliament thanked the people of Thredbo, sympathised with those who were involved and with their families and friends, and thanked rescue workers. Behind the scenes emergency services welfare groups in the Monaro region and the Berridale Lions Club gathered foodstuffs and donations from places as far afield as Paddy’s Markets in Sydney. Food distributors in Sydney sent truckloads of Mars bars and all sorts of other confectionary - which did absolutely nothing for my waistline but were welcomed by rescue workers on the site. They were able to put them in their pockets and, as they stood at security points around the perimeter of the site, nourish themselves as they waited.

A conglomerate of local people got together in the Jindabyne pre-school kitchen and, over a period of four or five days, prepared food to be sent up to the rescue workers. They too deserve the commendation of the community for the spontaneous way in which they reacted to the incident. Finally, the Kosciuszko-Thredbo management team endured a considerable amount of trauma during the period of the rescue operation. David Osborne, the manager of that organisation, was placed under enormous pressure and bore the brunt of much of the criticism of the media. During interviews that took place immediately after the incident allegations were levelled and questions asked which were not only untimely but also inaccurate and created totally unnecessary levels of anxiety. I pay tribute to David Osborne for his leadership and to his team for the calm and methodical way in which they handled the situation.

I thank the Thredbo Chamber of Commerce for its submission to the Federal and State governments seeking funds to build a memorial community centre, and the Prime Minister, Deputy Prime Minister and Premier for their instantaneous response to that request. That request resulted in $100,000 being made available by the Federal Government and $55,000 by the New South Wales Government. I am very grateful to the Premier for his caring attitude and to Walter Secord in the Premier’s office for his professionalism. His response to my telephone call on the morning that the Premier was scheduled to visit Thredbo was "What $55,000?" I said "The $55,000" and within half an hour he had organised it. Recently I wrote a note to the Premier saying that although in the past he and I have not had a great deal in common we certainly have now. It is great to share something such as that.

Finally, I thank members of this House, particularly those who took the time to phone me and offer good wishes, and I extend sympathy to those who may have lost friends or relatives in the tragedy. During the period of five or six days that I was at Thredbo I stayed in a caravan park and I suppose I will have to declare in the register of pecuniary interests that Australian Capital Territory Caravan Hire provided me with a caravan at a bonus rate so that I could stay at Thredbo, and the Yass State Emergency Service provided a generator to keep me warm for three of the seven hours of the night at least. Temperatures of minus 14 degrees have to be experienced to be appreciated! Australians are renowned for bonding together in times of adversity and Thredbo was no exception. The fact that Stuart Diver is alive and well is a tribute to the professionalism of the rescuers and the faith of his family and friends and those who prayed for him.

Mr McMANUS (Bulli) [11.00 a.m.]: It saddens me that in the first two days of the new session three condolence motions will be moved: one for Diana, Princess of Wales; one for the victims of the Thredbo landslide; and one for Mother Teresa. As a politician, a parent and a husband, my heart goes out to the people who suffered through the Thredbo tragedy. This is the second time in 11 years that I have been placed in this situation - the first was in relation to a landslide at Coledale in which a friend lost his wife and child. That was a similar incident, a similar tragedy. Honourable members would agree that the Thredbo tragedy is the most severe to impact on our country in recent times. I express my condolences to Stuart Diver. Although he survived this tragedy, he faces life without the love of his best friend, Sally. I know that in time he will overcome that, but my heart goes out to him, particularly because for days he had to lie beside his wife, Sally, in freezing conditions and wait for rescue from his entombment, knowing that she was no longer with him.

Many Australians believe that the community has lost its spirit. The honourable member for
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Monaro and I are involved with emergency services at a political level - I am the Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Emergency Services - and at a personal level. The response of the emergency services of this State was nothing short of monumental, which came as no surprise to us. The honourable member for Monaro and I know - as the country now knows - that we have the greatest volunteer emergency services system in the world. Twice in recent years it has been called on to prove that to the community: first during the 1994 bushfires, and then at Thredbo. Any misconception that we have lost our community spirit was brushed aside by the enormity, the proficiency and the efficiency of the people of New South Wales and other States who banded together to ensure that those who could be saved would be saved.

The Thredbo tragedy started just before midnight on 30 July, and we stared dumbfounded at our televisions for the next few days, hoping and praying that the victims would be rescued. Unfortunately, it was not to be. In the next few days we saw that many people were prepared to give their time, effort and hope so that something could be achieved. Stuart Diver is living testimony to their success, but unfortunately there is also a great deal of sadness. Although there were many deaths, there was finally some relief at 6.26 a.m. on Saturday, 2 August, when Stuart Diver was found alive. The rescuers removed Stuart Diver from the rubble - to the relief of everyone watching on television - and placed him in the Westpac Life Saver Rescue Helicopter, and he arrived at Woden hospital within an hour.

We have to reflect on the efficiency of the emergency services, from the start of the disaster through to when the Life Saver 1 helicopter was called in. The enormity of those two days will go down in history, and the community should reflect on what took place: States, Territories, the Police Service, the Ambulance Service, the State Emergency Service and smaller rescue services banded together - many of them not knowing the procedures of the others - as one unit, in freezing temperatures, to try to rescue the victims. Hundreds of people did an amazing job in difficult conditions. In this condolence motion we have to do two things: convey our heartfelt sorrow to the families of the victims, and acknowledge the work done by the rescue organisations. Some repercussions will flow from this tragedy. Investigations are currently taking place, and we should learn from them. As the honourable member for Monaro said, we have to ensure that landslide disasters such as those at Coledale and Thredbo do not occur again. I join with the Premier, Ministers, and other members in conveying my heartfelt sorrow to those who have been affected by this tragedy. I hope it never happens again.

Mrs CHIKAROVSKI (Lane Cove) [11.06 a.m.]: I express my deepest sympathies and those of my electorate to the families and friends of the 18 people who died in the Thredbo landslide disaster. Our hearts go out to Stuart Diver, who magnificently survived the disaster and showed what the human spirit is capable of achieving in extremely difficult situations. One can only imagine the terror that engulfed those in the Carinya lodge and the Bimbadeen lodge at approximately 11.30 p.m. on Wednesday, 30 July. As the lodges crashed down the mountain, their residents could only have thought that Armageddon had come upon them. What went through the hearts and minds of those who heard the terrible noise has been expressed. We know that residents in nearby lodges rushed to try to help those who were trapped, but the devastation was so great that they were powerless to act.

The honourable member for Monaro said the emergency response was magnificent. It was a happy coincidence that specialised police units were in Thredbo at the time for special training exercises. I join other honourable members and congratulate all those involved in the emergency services and the volunteers who worked so tirelessly at Thredbo for many days in difficult circumstances. Mr John Jeppesen, from the State Emergency Service, said that he was a proud man. He was quoted in the Sydney Morning Herald of 5 August as saying that all the emergency workers did a terrific job. He rather understated the situation when he said:

But it’s rather stressful for a lot of them working under those conditions.

The workers are getting exhausted and fatigue and concentration problems are setting in.

I would have thought that exhaustion and fatigue would have been the least of their problems. They had to deal with the cold - it was absolutely freezing - the ground was unstable, they were constantly called off the site because the ground was shifting, and they had to do so in the knowledge that bodies were under the rubble. We need to appreciate the extent of the mental and physical effort that the rescue imposed on the emergency workers.

We heard today that hundreds of volunteers were involved. I have a list from the Parliamentary Library of the names of the volunteers published in the Sydney Morning Herald. They represent all sorts of organisations, some of which have been mentioned. Though the list is not complete, it has
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hundreds of names, and I should like to refer to a few of those organisations. Honourable members would know that the New South Wales police, the Federal police, chaplains, medical controllers and members of the New South Wales Volunteer Rescue Association were at Thredbo. Honourable members referred today to the Australian Capital Territory Fire Brigade and the Salvation Army. Doctors, members of the State Emergency Service, the Newcastle ambulance service, and volunteer rescue associations from all over the State were at the site. All those people who went to Thredbo to try to assist deserve our heartfelt thanks and support. I am sure that out of Thredbo we can learn how to assist others better. We can always improve.

One matter that has been touched upon is that all those volunteers worked so well together. It is fair to say that at times there has been some jealousy between the services, but that jealousy did not surface at Thredbo, where the task at hand was to try to find and rescue people. All those involved did everything they could to achieve that. I have been a regular visitor to Thredbo for well over 20 years. I started visiting Thredbo when I was 19 and I have been a visitor almost every year since, both in summer and in winter. I have seen Thredbo grow from a small, alpine resort oriented towards the winter skiing season to what it is today - an internationally recognised resort and all-round recreation area. My family and I were at Thredbo this summer and we enjoyed the new facilities and bike tracks. My children particularly enjoy mountain bikes. We appreciate all the effort and commitment that has gone into making Thredbo what it is.

I visited Thredbo several days after the landslide occurred. After speaking to the honourable member for Monaro I thought it was an appropriate time to visit. I went there to see how well operations were working on the ground and to get some idea of how devastating the landslide had been. I, like others, had watched events on television for days. I had watched with admiration the army of volunteers and emergency workers who toiled day and night to clear the rubble. My family and I watched with great despair as workers removed the bodies; and we watched, almost with disbelief, when the call went out that someone had been found alive. Like many Australians, I sat glued to the television on that Saturday for hour after hour during the painstaking process of ensuring that Stuart Diver would be removed safely. My children and I cheered - as I am sure people in every Australian household cheered - when Stuart Diver emerged safely from that rubble.

Even after spending all that time watching the television I was not prepared for the devastation that I saw when I actually went to Thredbo. The pictures on the small, square television tubes were incapable of portraying the scope of this disaster, the amount of rubble and the size of the boulders. The incredible volume of dirt that had moved had to be seen to be believed. I visited the site after much of the dirt had been removed, so I can only imagine what it was like when the landslide first happened. The real shock for me came when I went up to the road. Only then did I fully realise how much of the hillside had moved. I said to the people at the top of the road, "How much of this dirt have you cleared?" They said, "None. This is what shifted." As I stood on the edge of that road I was incredibly shaken, not least because less than three weeks before my visit my children had been playing on that part of the Alpine Way. That brought home to me how close and personal the disaster was. I place on the record that I am grateful to Fred Speer, whom I happen to know, from the Southern Highlands Division of the State Emergency Service. Fred, who was working on the site at the time, came up to me, put his arm around me and said, "Are you all right, Chiko?" It took me a few minutes, but, after that, I was all right. I am grateful to Fred for taking the time to do that.

I think all of us will find that this tragedy has touched us in different ways. We all would have been moved by what happened at Thredbo. One thing that really struck me, and the overall impression that I took away from Thredbo - it has been mentioned today in many ways - was that the emergency workers and volunteers at Thredbo showed an incredible commitment, one for which we should all strive. This tragedy brought together the local community in a way which no community should be brought together, but it has drawn strength from that. My family and I did all sorts of interesting things, including visiting the SES headquarters. I do not know how many thousands of meals were served from a very small kitchen. The SES took great pride in telling both the honourable member for Monaro and me that all of the best chefs in Thredbo were cooking some of the best meals they had ever cooked because they believed the emergency workers deserved to be treated in that way.

The impression the people at Thredbo left me with was that they would come together and get through this terrible tragedy, this overwhelming grief. As a community, they will rebuild Thredbo. Any failure to do so would be to deny the spirit of those who died, so many of whom had dedicated their lives to building Thredbo and making it what it is today. I join with others in expressing my deepest sympathy to the family and friends of those who
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died in the Thredbo landslide. My heart goes out to Stuart Diver and I commend him for his great courage. I suspect that he will go through a difficult time in years to come. I conclude by thanking the many emergency services workers, the volunteers and all those involved in this disaster. I congratulate them and thank them for their courage and commitment.

Ms NORI (Port Jackson) [11.17 a.m.]: I express my condolences and those of my children, Bonnie and Lachlan, to all the families and friends who suffered a loss in the Thredbo tragedy on 31 July this year. My family and I, like the family of the honourable member for Lane Cove, have a close affinity with Thredbo. I have a number of friends at Thredbo. My paragliding instructor is a permanent resident there, so I have a close association with that community and felt especially saddened and shocked by the tragedy. The permanent community at Thredbo is quite closely knit. It has been estimated that about 20 per cent of the members of that community have been lost. That has hit the locals very hard at an emotional level. Thredbo village, which has a special environment, displays some wonderful village life. People are very close and often have two or three different jobs, depending on the season. There is a strong sense of altruism amongst the permanent residents.

On hearing of the tragedy my immediate response was to ring my friend Anne McRitchie to make sure that she was alive. I also rang another friend, Heinz Gloor, to ensure that he had not been hurt. I was pleased to hear that they were alive, but I was saddened when they started telling me the names of the people who were missing. Though I did not know some of the people who were missing terribly well, nevertheless I knew them. It saddened me when I had to tell my children that Andrew McArthur, a gentleman who taught them wonderfully well in their first time in the snow - he was virtually their private instructor for a week - was one of those who had died. I pay tribute to Oscar Luhn. I once put my life in Oscar’s hands when he winch-launched me off a skidoo at the back of Carol’s to go paragliding. Oscar, a lovely German gentleman, a bit of a teddy bear actually, was always friendly and kind. It is sad that he has been lost. We all feel the loss of the other people who died as well. My children and I, like the family of the honourable member for Lane Cove, were glued to the television and gave each other updates, hoping beyond hope that someone would survive. Of course, we shared in the joy of Stuart Diver’s miraculous survival.

I kept in close touch with my friends in Thredbo, and obviously it has been a very difficult time for them and for the permanent residents. They have had to endure, in some cases, the loss of maybe a dozen or more close, personal friends; it has clearly left a gap in their lives. Such a tragedy would be very difficult for anyone to endure. Like the previous speaker, it was not until I visited Thredbo for the service on the Monday after the tragedy that I understood the full extent of it. The television cameras simply cannot pick up the three-dimensionality of such an event. It was not until I walked to the top of the landslide that I realised just how much rubble and force crushed the two lodges. It really was quite shocking and startling to see the impact of that landslide. As I stood there I remembered all the occasions on which I had walked back to my lodge at about midnight. I realised that this could have happened to any one of us who is a regular Thredbo-goer, and just how mortal we all are.

I was quite upset to see at the church service the sadness displayed by a number of people whom I am very fond of. It was a terribly sad occasion. I too was heartened by the efforts of the SES, present and former Salvation Army officers, and the police. The landslide really galvanised everyone into pulling together, getting on with the job and displaying enormous courage, tenacity and goodwill to their fellow citizens. I congratulate all those who really worked under very difficult conditions to try to save the lives of fellow human beings. As I said earlier, I am very committed to Thredbo. I think the best thing any of us can do, particularly those of us who normally spend some time in Thredbo, is to continue to go down there, which is precisely what I did about two weeks ago. I also took the time, accompanied by the parliamentary secretary and an officer of the Department of State and Regional Development, to visit a number of small businesses in Thredbo, and the Thredbo Chamber of Commerce, to discuss small business issues.

Clearly the small business people of Thredbo are feeling the pinch; their cash flow has been affected. Right at the height of their season, business was clearly not as good as it should have been to carry them through. Hopefully the Department of State and Regional Development and I, working with the Chamber of Commerce, will be able to assist them to recover. Clearly they are anxious to ensure that a coronial inquiry is held as expeditiously as possible; there may well be some insurance issues to flow from that inquiry. The Department of State and Regional Development has
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offered to work with the small businesses of Thredbo, possibly using a consultant, to work out a strategy to boost customer service and to develop inexpensive promotional tools. Clearly there is an urgent need to project Thredbo to the public in a positive light, particularly from a safety point of view.

I take this opportunity to call on any of the banks that might be involved with small businesses in Thredbo to show some flexibility and compassion should their clients need to discuss refinancing. I will certainly do whatever I can to ensure that those small businesses are treated sympathetically by the banks. I acknowledge the pain and difficulty that would have been felt by Kim Clifford, the manager of the Kosciuszko-Thredbo resort, who is based in Thredbo, and his wife, Judy. I know that Kim felt the tragedy personally, and it could not have been an easy time for him or his family. I know that Thredbo will come good again. I also acknowledge David Osborne and his positive role. I understand that it could not have been an easy time for him either. I intend to spend New Year’s Eve at Thredbo, and I encourage others to do the same. I hope the winds are right so that I can fly off the top.

Mr SMITH (Bega) [11.24 a.m.]: I support the Premier, the Leader of the Opposition, the leader of the National Party, the honourable member for Monaro and many other honourable members who have preceded me in speaking to this motion of sympathy for those who suffered in the disaster at Thredbo on 30 July this year. I extend sympathies on behalf of my wife, Lesley, and my constituents in the electorate of Bega, which adjoins the electorate of Monaro. Between 1988 and 1991 Thredbo was actually within my electorate and during that time I had a very close association with the residents of Thredbo and the alpine resort that surrounds it. I must say that they were absolutely delightful people who had a great community interest in their village. It is within that context that I feel very deeply for the tragedy that took place on 30 July.

I knew that many expert people, including the honourable member for Monaro and many Federal members, were visiting Thredbo. I made the conscious choice not to go there but to leave it to the experts to do their job, which they certainly did. One can only imagine the trauma that swept Thredbo village on the night of 30 July and the absolute frustration of those involved in the rescue at not being able to get in there with their heavy machinery, rip the site apart and try to get survivors out. It would be difficult to have the patience to sit back and listen to the experts and accept their advice that if anyone had survived this unbelievable tragedy they had to proceed in an organised and, unfortunately, slow fashion.

The honourable member for Monaro has already spoken about the difficulties that he and other members of the volunteer forces and professional emergency services had in convincing the parents and friends of those trapped that that was the best way of conducting the rescue operation. But one can understand the frustration of family and friends in wanting to know where their loved ones were, wanting them saved, and wanting a quick result. That was not the way that the professionals decided it should be done, and clearly the rescue of Stuart Diver proved the professionals correct. After a number of days, at a time when everything was basically negative and it appeared that 19 people had been killed in the tragedy - an occurrence almost unheard of in Australia - to the thrill of everyone in Australia Stuart Diver emerged as a survivor. We expect such tragedies to happen in other parts of the world - for example, in bushfires in California, in floods in different parts of the world, and in earthquakes and so on in San Francisco - but we do not expect these types of tragedies to happen in Australia or New South Wales.

I make mention of the heroic efforts of Stuart Diver in managing to survive, and then facing the media and all the trauma that followed his rescue. He lay there for hour after hour in freezing water grasping the hand of his wife, who was initially alive. He then realised that she had died beside him. One just cannot comprehend how anyone would have the courage to fight through and say, "I am going to survive this." I have the utmost admiration for that fellow. No doubt his traumas are only just starting; he now has to suffer the anguish of the great loss that he has experienced and also of being the one survivor - quite an incredible pressure on such a young fellow. I express my sympathies and those of my electorate to the friends and families of those killed in the Thredbo disaster. I know they will be going through immense trauma at this stage. I know that the Thredbo village, being a closely knit community, will come back strongly, but I know also that they need the help of all of us in New South Wales and Australia to make sure that we give them the support that they so richly deserve after suffering such a tragedy at the peak of their snow season.

We should not forget the financial disaster that Thredbo has also suffered as this has not been a good snow season. We should support the people of the Thredbo area to ensure that they can make as strong a recovery from this season as they have from previous poor seasons. Many emergency
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services officers from my electorate attended the disaster scene. I contacted the major players in those organisations and thanked them personally, but I should like to commend State Emergency Service officers from my electorate and all who helped out. I thank the Volunteer Rescue Association, the rural bushfire service, ambulance officers and police. Police were featured regularly in the media. They did an excellent job in taking control and ensured that the media provided up-to-date information to people in New South Wales and throughout Australia. New South Wales Bush Fire Brigades and workers from local government and the Snowy River shire did a fantastic job.

The honourable member for Monaro mentioned the contractors who volunteered their expertise and equipment to ensure that the rescue was carried out as planned. I should like to commend the honourable member for Monaro for the tremendous job he did over the many days of the rescue. This disaster affected not only his electorate but the whole of Australia. The honourable member for Monaro never shirks his duties and always looks after his constituents. He made sure that all the workers were well looked after and received the necessary resources. These days disasters are of national and international significance. I congratulate the media on the excellent coverage of the Thredbo disaster throughout Australia and the world.

I commend the police and, in particular, Bruce Johnston, the Illawarra commander, whom the Minister for Police also acknowledges. Though officers may not be trained in handling the media, it is becoming increasingly a part of police duty and Bruce Johnston did so in a professional manner. My commiserations go to the families and friends of the victims and all those people in Thredbo who have to live with the tragedy. A number of years ago Thredbo, a close-knit village, was part of my electorate. During the time it was within my electorate former Premier Greiner and I visited Thredbo to open a quad snow lift and we were very well looked after by the local community. It is a lovely community and I hope it will become stronger following this tragedy. My electorate will certainly lend its support. I am grateful for the opportunity to participate in this debate and to support this motion on behalf of the Bega electorate.
Mr WHELAN (Ashfield - Minister for Police) [11.34 a.m.]: I wish to express my sympathy to the relatives and friends of the 18 people who died at Thredbo on the night of 30 July. Our thoughts and prayers were with them after this great tragedy occurred and remain with them now during this difficult time. The entire nation was shocked by the events of that night in late July, as were people in many other countries. Messages of support, hope and sympathy were sent during the course of the rescue operation and in the aftermath. It is both poignant and sadly ironic that one of those personal messages of support came handwritten from the Princess of Wales.

I was out of the country when the news of the Thredbo landslide broke. However, like most other Australians, I felt the same initial emotions of disbelief and deep shock that such a tragedy could occur in that small, idyllic Snowy Mountains village. As the extent of the tragedy unfolded I joined with millions of others in hoping and praying against extreme odds for survivors among the devastation. Thankfully, some of those prayers were answered with the miraculous survival of Stuart Diver. This was a feat achieved by a unique partnership - his incredibly strong spirit of survival and the extraordinary efforts of the emergency rescue team. This rescue effort kept Australians everywhere spellbound and very proud.

Whilst I realise that police comprised only a fraction of the army of heroes of Thredbo, we are indeed blessed to have so many dedicated and skilled people within our ranks. Their exceptional work - indeed the efforts of every emergency worker there - illustrates how expertly trained they are to deal with any and every situation. A large part of the credit for this operation must go to the managers, trainers and leaders who co-ordinated this arduous and heart-wrenching exercise. As State Emergency Operations Controller, Bev Lawson co-ordinated the emergency effort. She was in constant communication with my colleague the Minister for Emergency Services about the status of the rescue and with Commissioner Ryan, whose visit to the site was a boost for those working at the scene.

Who could forget the words of Superintendent Charlie Sanderson when he said, "A miracle has occurred" when rescue workers first made contact with Stuart Diver? Superintendent Sanderson, along with Assistant Commissioner Ken Moroney and Chief Superintendents Eric Gollan and Bruce Johnston, were outstanding in their efforts. They co-ordinated thousands of rescue workers, kept the whole country and the rest of the world informed, comforted the many worried friends and relatives of those trapped, and coped with their own emotions from the strain that such a catastrophe brings. They all deserve the nation’s praise. They certainly have mine. They set an exemplary standard for all police.

These leaders demonstrated qualities that make great police. I have great admiration and praise for
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the skill and bravery of all police and every emergency services worker involved in the rescue operation at Thredbo. For the duration of the exercise the entire area was in constant danger of further slippage. Despite this, rescue teams of professional and volunteer emergency workers continued to work in freezing conditions around the clock. The Thredbo rescue was also an exceptional display of the strength of teamwork. All the emergency services worked well together, showing that, when put to the test, the years of training and planning paid off. Most evident of all were the courage, resourcefulness and resilience of all those involved in the rescue. That includes the hundreds of anonymous people behind the scenes who played an important role in keeping the operation going. They provided constant and essential administration and communications support, as well as practical support.

I should like to make special mention of some police personnel involved in the rescue effort. These groups from within the Police Service all contributed their expertise to the operation. As Minister for Police I should like to personally thank them for their outstanding efforts. They are the police rescue squad, police officers from general duties and highway patrol, detectives, and district emergency management officers from the Southern Rivers, South-eastern, City East, Greater Hume and Macquarie regions. I thank also officers from the forensic services group, communications operators, police chaplains, officers from the procurement services branch and partners of police officers for their support during a very difficult operation.

I thank the Police Association of New South Wales and the welfare branch for providing support for officers on the scene. I pay tribute to members of the police media unit who worked around the clock, both from headquarters and at the scene. I have heard nothing but praise for the efforts of all police and other emergency personnel who were involved. As well I thank my ministerial staff for their long and hard work. I join the Premier and other honourable members in thanking the honourable member for Monaro for his personal contribution. As Minister for Police I am extremely proud and humble. To each and every officer I extend the congratulations of all honourable members of this House.

Mr SCHULTZ (Burrinjuck) [11.40 a.m.]: I speak on this motion to offer my sincere condolences to the families of the victims and to praise the efforts of those involved in trying to extricate the people who many thought may still have been alive and in recovering the bodies of those who died. In our profession many of us do not go to bed until the late hours of the night or the early hours of the morning. We were shocked at the reports late on Wednesday, 30 July. We could not believe that this tragic landslide had occurred. I represent the Burrinjuck electorate, which abuts the electorate of Monaro. My colleague the honourable member for Monaro and I both share one of the snowfields in the Snowy Mountains. As a skier I know many people who stay in lodges at Thredbo and I was concerned that people from my area may have been involved in the landslide.

It was a tragedy indeed for the families and friends of the victims. Today many people have referred to Stuart Diver. It is often forgotten that as well as surviving his terrible ordeal he was entombed in temperatures down to minus 14 degrees, as the honourable member for Monaro said, in a very confined space alongside his dead wife and near the bodies of other people. In the time he was trapped the situation was impacting on his family. He was probably not aware of the amount of concern being expressed by the community and the commitment of the volunteers who had arrived after hearing of the tragedy to do what they could to assist in extricating the victims of the landslide. Like many people paying attention to television and radio coverage of developments in the days following the landslide, they lived in hope that some of the people entombed would be found alive.

Volunteers and organisations gave their time unselfishly, as they always do. The hope quickly turned to despair and grief. It was not through lack of ability among the people and groups working to extricate people from the rubble. Some members of the media criticised the rescuers for what they termed to be the slow way in which the rubble was being removed from the site. In their ignorance they did not know of the dangers for people who may have been alive under the rubble and the volunteers, rescuers, police and others doing their best to clear the site and to give people who may have been alive under the rubble the best opportunity of surviving.

We in rural communities do not take for granted the people in the State Emergency Service, the police, the Ambulance Service and the volunteer rescue associations. We know that in times of adversity those people are there automatically. They quickly telephone the people responsible for those groups to ask whether they can help. They just do it. As the Minister for Police just said, the training acquired over the years by those people has helped them to carry out their roles as professionals in trying circumstances in the best interests of the people affected by tragedy.

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I publicly acknowledge the magnificent work undertaken by the rescue teams, the medical teams, the police, the ambulance personnel, the State Emergency Service, the bushfire brigades, the volunteer rescue associations, and the local community members who behind the scenes supplied the backup and infrastructure needed to keep people going and to keep them safe following exposure to the elements. Some of us forget the extreme conditions during the rescue. Most of the time it was very cold - down to minus 14 degrees. Communication services and food for the workers were needed. Contractors supplied trucks and equipment needed to break up the heavy slabs of concrete and cart the rubble away.

Church leaders gave comfort to the families of the victims and to many of the workers who obviously felt frustrated that they could not get in to clear up the mess and to get people out from underneath the rubble. The honourable member for Monaro mentioned the magnificent role undertaken by the Salvation Army. Every time there is a national catastrophe, in peace or in war, throughout the world the Salvation Army is there. The Salvation Army played a magnificent role as part of the basic infrastructure needed to keep volunteers going. The conditions certainly were uncomfortable.

Some of my parliamentary colleagues, including the Premier, the Leader of the Opposition and the Leader of the National Party, have mentioned the role played by the honourable member for Monaro. Over the years I have had feedback from the community about the magnificent role he has played in such times. In his usual manner he has downplayed his role in responding to this catastrophe. Like the honourable member for Bega, I decided that I would not visit the site, because the last thing that was wanted was a bunch of politicians getting in the way and asking questions. There were enough problems with some elements of the media creating unnecessary obstruction.

It was not until the Sunday after the catastrophe that I contacted the honourable member for Monaro on his mobile phone, because I knew that he would be working there day and night. I talked to him about the problem. We are good friends and my wife and I comforted him. Members of this House should be made aware that he worked for a full six days and nights in the trying conditions at Thredbo. He will flippantly pass that off as part and parcel of his concern for and commitment to his constituency, the people of Thredbo and the families of the victims who were there hoping that their relatives would be rescued from the site. He did an enormous amount to help people, far beyond the realms of what is expected in terms of the commitments of a parliamentarian. That should be recorded in Hansard and certainly should be referred to during this condolence motion.

In closing, I offer my family’s deep condolences to all of those families who have been saddened at the loss of loved ones in that terrible accident. I also offer my deep condolence to Stuart Diver who psychologically has a long way to go before he can accept the tragedy that has befallen him in the loss of his wife and the terrible injuries, both medical and physical, that he sustained from the conditions in which he lay during that prolonged entombment underneath the rubble. I thank Parliament for the opportunity to make my comments today and to acknowledge publicly that I am thankful that we have people in our community who voluntarily and without question assist people in need during tragic circumstances such as the landslide disaster at Thredbo.

Mr AQUILINA (Riverstone - Minister for Education and Training, and Minister Assisting the Premier on Youth Affairs) [11.51 a.m.]: I join with the Premier and other honourable members in extending my deepest sympathy to the families and friends of those who were killed and injured in the landslide at Thredbo village on 30 July. I also join with the Premier and other honourable members in commending the efforts and sacrifices of rescuers and support teams in the extremely delicate and difficult operations which followed the landslide. Like many honourable members of this House, I did not know those who suffered. As the enormity of the tragedy unfolded through the media I was moved, as all Australians were, with compassion, grief and sorrow for the plight of the victims and with extreme sympathy for their relatives and friends who waited anxiously to hear news of those who had been caught in the tragic landslide.

It is in moments of great distress that the Australian identity comes to the fore and we show ourselves to be a great united family. I believe that every Australian who saw what was happening at Thredbo responded as if a member of their own family had been affected by the disaster. It brought out some of the wonderful elements of this nation and of what we call the Australian character, the Australian identity, in the way that everyone responded so sympathetically and well. That response was manifest in those who worked to rescue the victims of the landslide.

Much has been said in this Chamber about the great efforts, selfless dedication and expertise which
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was shown on this occasion by members of the emergency services, whether they be police, Salvation Army members or various voluntary groups. I extend my commendation to all of those who participated. Others, such as the honourable member for Monaro who was closer to the scene, are able to speak more expertly about the way people at the scene worked. Their expertise has been highly praised by all who are familiar with these situations both within Australia and beyond our Australian shores. I particularly commend those whose day-to-day jobs are not to do with rescue and emergency situations. They are the volunteers who went to Thredbo, particularly those involved with the State Emergency Service and the volunteer bush fire brigades.

I take this opportunity to commend members of the State Emergency Services from the city of Blacktown who went to Thredbo in large numbers. Last Thursday night I was pleased to attend a reception given by the Mayor of the City of Blacktown, Councillor Charlie Lowles, who commended more than 30 members of the Blacktown community who have been involved with the State Emergency Service and went to Thredbo and gave freely of their time. They did not know whether they would be paid for the time they took off work but were happy and honoured to be called upon to provide their services. I also take this opportunity to commend the work of the State Emergency Service and volunteer bush fire brigade members in general. These people perform work on a voluntary basis not only in times of emergency. They do it week in, week out, training and making sure that their equipment is up to standard. They do it voluntarily but the majority of the populace is not aware that they are volunteers and give freely of their time.

Today is the twentieth anniversary of my election as an alderman to Blacktown City Council. At that stage I became aware of the extent of the work of State Emergency Service personnel and volunteer bush fire brigades. Since then I have established a close relationship with the Blacktown State Emergency Service and have become aware of the enormous amount of work they do, whether in a flood, a fire or a catastrophe, as on this occasion at Thredbo. I commend all emergency services personnel but particularly those who volunteered their time and services. In my capacity as a local member of Parliament for the city of Blacktown I specifically commend the expertise, dedication and selflessness of the State Emergency Service and volunteer bush fire brigade personnel from the city of Blacktown, including a member of my ministerial staff, Paul Hamels, who went to Thredbo for a number of days.

It was intriguing to note the impact that the work at Thredbo had on this young man. Even though his job was one of providing assistance with the rescue, he came back ashen-faced and shaken. His experience there had quite an emotional impact on him, which is still with him today. Knowing that, I can only conjecture about the impact it had on all of those who were involved in this enormous tragedy. Once again, to the families and friends of all of those who suffered I express my deepest sympathy. To those who worked in this great disaster, employed personnel and particularly volunteers, I give sincere thanks on behalf of myself and this Parliament. To those emergency workers who came from the City of Blacktown I give my sincere thanks on behalf of my constituency.

Mr TINK (Eastwood) [11.58 a.m.]: I join with all previous speakers in expressing my sympathy and condolence to all those people who lost family and friends in the recent Thredbo tragedy. The Minister for Police referred to what Superintendent Charlie Sanderson said when Stuart Diver was found alive. He said, "It’s a miracle". It was a miracle, but it was also a tribute to Stuart Diver and to Charlie Sanderson and all the people - police, emergency services workers, ambulance workers and volunteers - who worked with him in the rescue. The honourable member for Monaro mentioned that Charlie Sanderson came to the Monaro area from Lismore only a short time before the Thredbo tragedy.

I well remember going to Lismore with the honourable member for Lismore, Bill Rixon, not too long ago to talk about policing issues. I recall meeting Charlie Sanderson at that time and I formed a very favourable impression of him. In a funny sense, I was very relieved to see his familiar face pop up on the television screen in charge of the operation in Monaro. I had not realised that he had been transferred down there, but I felt immediately that the operation was in good hands. The honourable member for Monaro also mentioned early press reports, speculation and criticism about time delays. I have gone through the press clippings very carefully because from time to time it falls to people in this House and people in the shadow ministry to second-guess what goes on. People are under a lot of pressure to make comments, as from time to time I am under a lot of pressure to make comments about what the police do. The urge to second-guess is always tremendous.

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In these types of cases it is important to try to figure out as best one can what has happened - the totality of the picture and the totality of the challenge for people involved in rescue work, or in any other work - before commenting on it. It is worth noting that most of the comments and most of the criticism about alleged delays were made before Stuart Diver was located alive in the rubble. I have spent some time studying very closely the extraordinary situation that presented itself to rescuers when Stuart Diver was found, and it is worth putting a few things on the record. During the attempt to extricate Mr Diver a land slippage occurred. Everybody was required to evacuate the immediate area, except for a couple of special casualty access team members who remained with Mr Diver, obviously themselves in extreme peril, to keep him company during that critical time.

That event sheets home to me the extraordinary danger that existed at all times in relation to slippage. That issue was lost sight of in some of the early criticisms levelled at rescue teams. The extrication of Mr Diver was an example of how critical that slippage was to his ongoing safety throughout the time he was being extricated and obviously, by extension, the safety of all rescuers surrounding him. Now that all the circumstances are known, some of the early comments and speculation in the media can be viewed in a totally different light. When one considers the surrounding circumstances and the physical situation in which Mr Diver was found, one can also understand why there was that early degree of caution. It is extraordinary that he was found under three slabs of concrete, each 15 centimetres thick; that he was up to his arms in water; and that he was in some serious danger of drowning, and had been for quite a long time after the landslide first occurred.

Rescue workers had to bore and cut their way through 15 centimetre-thick slabs of concrete before they got to him, and that work was interrupted because of further slippage. That is the immediate position that presented itself; that is the position we now know that police and rescue workers faced, and a situation they would have expected to face in general terms, particularly when there was any chance of anybody remaining alive. It is particularly important for people like me to constantly remind themselves that they were the situations faced by rescuers, and to understand the great peril in any rush to judgment. The coroner will have matters to consider, and I am sure much will be learned from this exercise for the future.

When one examines in some detail what is on the public record as to Mr Diver’s circumstances, one can have nothing but admiration for the people involved in his rescue. The leader of the rescue effort, as a representative of all those involved, deserves special commendation and that is Superintendent Sanderson. I would like to join with other honourable members who have congratulated the honourable member for Monaro. I also watched with great interest his contribution. In 1994 I found myself in a similar situation when the January bushfires swept through Marsfield. They were life threatening and destroyed a lot of property. It is a dilemma for any local member of Parliament to know whether to get involved or to stand back and let people do their duty. It is always a fine balancing act.

In relation to the 1994 bushfires I knew I had to thank the fire brigade officers, many of whom had come a long way. I well remember the Australian Capital Territory fire brigade members, which had been on the road for about three or four hours, jumping straight out of their trucks and saving about 20 houses in Marsfield. I became involved because I just had to thank those people. It is always hard to make the right decision, as it is for the police and others who are involved, whether to stay away or get involved. Either way one potentially leaves oneself open to criticism after the event, but must play it as one sees it. On this occasion the honourable member for Monaro played an absolutely outstanding role. From what I know I can say likewise about the police and the emergency services people who were involved. I congratulate all of them. I commiserate and sympathise with the families, relatives and friends of those who lost their lives in the tragedy.

Mr FACE (Charlestown - Minister for Gaming and Racing, and Minister Assisting the Premier on Hunter Development) [12.06 p.m.]: Like so many other people, when I first heard of the tragedy of Thredbo I reacted with disbelief. After years of being involved in natural disasters, both with the police and in the Parliament, I suppose one should not react with disbelief, but this country had never experienced a landslide of any magnitude, just as it had not experienced an earthquake of the magnitude of that which occurred in Newcastle. However, history shows that on several occasions over the years there had been warnings that Newcastle was in an earthquake belt. I reacted with disbelief to the Thredbo landslide not only because I thought that such a disaster could not happen, but in the past 20 years I have had so much involvement in various ways with the snowfields, particularly with Thredbo.

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Thredbo is one resort, more than others in the snowfields, where people live in a village-type atmosphere. In the last decade Thredbo has become just as popular in the summer months as it is in the winter months. Its summer occupancy rates nearly parallel its winter rates. All of those who work in Thredbo are employed there practically all the year round. Like any other place in which the numbers of locals are small, everyone knows everyone else and knows with whom they are connected. In that sense it is similar to the little mining villages that still exist in pockets of my electorate: camaraderie and loyalty tie people together. I have been to Thredbo and the national park not only for recreational purposes but also to fulfil my portfolio responsibilities in regard to licensing. I knew several of the people who lost their lives in this terrible tragedy. I visited the site after it had been cleared and I was as emotional as one might expect when I saw personal belongings in the heaps of rubble and realised that the lives of those who survived, including Mr Diver, had been changed forevermore.

I visited the site with some people from Thredbo and I shared in their grief. I do not want to make a big fellow of myself, but I knew six of the people who lost their lives, some of them personally. I had lunch with Anthony Cleary, the manager of the hotel, just before I visited the site. As he said, "I lost half my staff; however, they were not only my staff, they were also my friends." I share the concerns of the honourable member for Monaro in relation to the role of David Osborne, the manager of the Thredbo resort. I have known David for a long time. As the honourable member for Eastwood said, there is always a tendency to attribute blame and to be judgmental in these circumstances. David has aged about 20 years since the disaster, such is his concern for the people involved. Kim Clifford is a resident of the village and is the overall operations manager of the site. Recently I spent some time with him and Anthony on the site. It was an emotional experience - their wives, kids and friends live in the village.

I extend my sympathies to the families of those who lost their lives and to those associated with the rescue, especially to David, Kim and Anthony who still have a long way to go. They will live with the emotional scars for the rest of their lives. I recently met a woman who had managed the hotel some years ago and had moved a number of times since then. She had recently received a parcel that had been sent to her little girl - a parcel from one of the people who lost their lives. All the memories came flooding back to her. A lot of people have been touched by this incident.

I was in the Police Service in the days when it was not co-ordinated. I pay tribute to the Police Service, the New South Wales Fire Brigades, the Ambulance Service, the State Emergency Service, the Volunteer Rescue Association, the Bush Fire Service, and the mining industry. Experts from the mining industry were able to do things that no-one else could - they have that experience because of the tenuous situations that occur in mining areas. I am only too well aware of such incidents, as I represent a mining area. Nowhere in the world can people be brought together as cohesively and in a co-ordinated way as they can be in New South Wales. If this incident had occurred in another country, especially in the United States, dozens of agencies would have been tripping over each other.

I pay tribute to New South Wales governments of the past two decades because there is now a clear line of command and disasters such as this are dealt with in an expert and proper way. In addition, we can learn from such disasters. In the past fire services were also unco-ordinated. For example, when bushfires occurred on the south coast of New South Wales in the mid-1960s the services were unco-ordinated and no-one knew what anyone else was doing - be it the police, the fire brigade or whoever. The same can be said of the floods that occurred in the Hunter Valley in the 1970s. The SES people ran around the place, the police tried to co-ordinate activities and no-one worked together. It is a great tribute to the voluntary and paid rescue organisations of this State that a catastrophe of the magnitude of the Thredbo disaster could be dealt with in such a professional way.

As did the honourable member for Eastwood, I pay tribute to the honourable member for Monaro, who acted in an exemplary way; he did not intrude. His service training came to the fore, which helps. I have found myself in that situation on two occasions in recent years: in the Newcastle earthquake of 1989, from which a tremendous number of things were learnt with regard to rescue and how to handle a national crisis of such magnitude; and in a hailstorm that hit Singleton recently. I happened to be there at the time, and I arranged the declaration of a state of emergency from my car. It is true that members question themselves as to how far they should go and that people question their motives, whether they are trying to make big fellows of themselves. At the same time, members try to share the emotions and grief of the people who are affected by such tragedies and try to keep matters on an even keel. I thank the honourable member for Monaro for the work that he did. He portrayed himself well, which reflected well on this institution.

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I pay tribute to Superintendent Charlie Sanderson, whom I know vaguely. He would have matured as a result of the intense questioning he endured. I take my hat off to him. There was a lot of caring on the part of many people, and I thank them for it. I have experienced grief at the loss in this tragedy of people I knew. The incident will have an emotional effect on the people who lost loved ones and on the rescuers. We should never lose sight of the fact that rescuers have left a little bit of themselves in Thredbo, and the rescue will play on their minds for the rest of their lives. We need to support those people in the years to come.

Members and officers of the House stood in their places.

Motion agreed to.

Mr ACTING-SPEAKER (Mr Clough): I acknowledge the presence in the gallery of three longstanding friends of my wife and I. We have been friends for 46 years. I welcome Mr and Mrs Bill Nicholson from Lismore and Mrs Sheila Hamilton from Tenterfield. Mr Nicholson was a renowned sportsman, having played rugby league against the French touring team of 1951 and having played many seasons of cricket with St George.

Debate resumed from 16 September.

Mr WHELAN (Ashfield - Minister for Police) [12.19 p.m.], in reply: I thank honourable members for their contributions to this debate. There is no validity in any criticism -

Mr Humpherson: On a point of order. Two people sought the call - the Leader of the House and I. I am seeking to speak in debate on this matter. Obviously, the Leader of the House is seeking to close debate on this matter by exercising his right of reply. Mr Acting-Speaker, I seek your ruling on this matter to enable me to speak in debate.

Mr O’Farrell: On the point of order. When Mr Speaker cast his vote with the Government last night clearly it was on the undertaking that there would be further debate on this issue today.

Mr ACTING-SPEAKER: Order! A member who attempts to get the call should stand and indicate clearly to the Chair that he or she seeks the call. The only member who indicated to me that he wished to speak was the Minister for Police.

Mr Hartcher: Mr Acting-Speaker -

Mr WHELAN: If honourable members do not jump to their feet, they do not get heard.

Mr Humpherson: I jumped!

Mr WHELAN: You did not!

Mr HARTCHER (Gosford) [2.21]: I move:

That the honourable member for Davidson be now heard.

Mr WHELAN: I am in the middle of my speech.

Mr Hartcher: I can move that motion at any time.

Mr ACTING-SPEAKER: Order! The Minister for Police was the only member on his feet and I gave him the call.

Mr WHELAN: The standing and sessional orders of this Parliament were approved by the Governor on 12 December 1994 and the amendments were approved on 14 October 1996. The Standing Orders Committee of this Parliament agreed to the sessional order changes. Honourable members should read the speeches made in this Chamber by people such as the honourable member for Oxley. He referred to the fact that the Leader of the Opposition commended the improvements to our sitting hours. The honourable member for Oxley referred also to the honourable member for Ballina and the honourable member for Gosford.

Mr Jeffery: You are being selective.

Mr WHELAN: Read it in Hansard. The honourable member extended congratulations -

Mr ACTING-SPEAKER: Order! I interrupt the Minister for Police to draw to the attention of honourable members that Standing Order 65 reads:

A Member may move without notice that a Member who has risen but has not received the call "That the Honourable Member for . . . be now further heard". The question shall be decided without debate or amendment.

Mr WHELAN: On a point of order.

Mr ACTING-SPEAKER: Order! No point of order is involved.

Mr Jeffery: You cannot canvass a ruling.

Mr ACTING-SPEAKER: Order! I am bound by the standing orders to put the question, That the honourable member for Davidson be now heard.

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Mr WHELAN: We will have to change the standing orders. When an honourable member is on his feet other honourable members cannot move that another honourable member be heard. All that honourable members can move is that an honourable member be not heard. If honourable members wish to move that I be not further heard, that is a different matter, but they cannot interrupt a member speaking to move that another member be heard. Honourable members have an opportunity at any time to move that I be no longer heard.

Mr Armstrong: On a point of order. Mr Acting-Speaker, the Minister is canvassing your ruling.

Mr ACTING-SPEAKER: Order! The Leader of the National Party will resume his seat.

Mr Armstrong: I seek to take a point of order.

Mr ACTING-SPEAKER: What is the point of order?

Mr Armstrong: That all words spoken by the Minister following the motion moved by the honourable member for Gosford should be struck from the record.

Mr ACTING-SPEAKER: Order! The member cannot strike it from the record.

Question - That the honourable member for Davidson be now heard - put.

The House divided.

Mr Armstrong Mr Oakeshott
Mr Beck Mr O’Doherty
Mr Blackmore Mr O’Farrell
Mr Brogden Mr D. L. Page
Mr Chappell Mr Peacocke
Mrs Chikarovski Mr Phillips
Mr Cochran Mr Photios
Mr Collins Mr Richardson
Mr Cruickshank Mr Rixon
Mr Debnam Mr Rozzoli
Mr Downy Mr Schipp
Mr Ellis Ms Seaton
Ms Ficarra Mrs Skinner
Mr Fraser Mr Souris
Mr Hartcher Mr Tink
Mr Hazzard Mr J. H. Turner
Mr Humpherson Mr R. W. Turner
Dr Kernohan Mr Windsor
Mr MacCarthy
Dr Macdonald Tellers,
Mr Merton Mr Jeffery
Ms Moore Mr Kerr Noes, 43

Ms Allan Mr McManus
Mr Amery Mr Martin
Mr Anderson Ms Meagher
Ms Andrews Mr Mills
Mr Aquilina Mr Moss
Mrs Beamer Mr Neilly
Mr Carr Ms Nori
Mr Clough Mr E. T. Page
Mr Crittenden Mr Price
Mr Debus Dr Refshauge
Mr Face Mr Rogan
Mr Gaudry Mr Scully
Mrs Grusovin Mr Shedden
Ms Hall Mr Stewart
Ms Harrison Mr Tripodi
Mr Iemma Mr Watkins
Mr Knight Mr Whelan
Mr Knowles Mr Woods
Mr Langton Mr Yeadon
Mrs Lo Po’ Tellers,
Mr Lynch Mr Beckroge
Mr McBride Mr Thompson

Mr Glachan Mr Harrison
Mr Kinross Mr Hunter
Mr Schultz Mr Markham
Mr Slack-Smith Mr Nagle
Mr Small Mr Rumble
Mr Smith Mr Sullivan

Question so resolved in the negative.

Mr WHELAN: I wish I could thank honourable members opposite for their contributions, but they were based on simple errors of fact. These sessional orders were introduced into this House when the Opposition was in government. As I said when I moved for their introduction in the previous session, they are substantially the same sessional orders as have applied in this Chamber for decades. The changes were unanimously agreed to by the Standing Orders Committee. When they were previously introduced, the honourable member for Gosford and the honourable member for Oxley both agreed with them.

Mr ACTING-SPEAKER (Mr Clough): There is a lesson to be learned from the previous motion. Members who wish the call should stand and clearly attract the attention of the Chair.

Question - That the motion be agreed to - put.

The House divided.

Page 102

Ms Allan Mr McManus
Mr Amery Mr Martin
Mr Anderson Ms Meagher
Ms Andrews Mr Mills
Mr Aquilina Mr Moss
Mrs Beamer Mr Neilly
Mr Carr Ms Nori
Mr Clough Mr E. T. Page
Mr Crittenden Mr Price
Mr Debus Dr Refshauge
Mr Face Mr Rogan
Mr Gaudry Mr Scully
Mrs Grusovin Mr Shedden
Ms Hall Mr Stewart
Ms Harrison Mr Tripodi
Mr Iemma Mr Watkins
Mr Knight Mr Whelan
Mr Knowles Mr Woods
Mr Langton Mr Yeadon
Mrs Lo Po’ Tellers,
Mr Lynch Mr Beckroge
Mr McBride Mr Thompson

Mr Armstrong Mr Oakeshott
Mr Beck Mr O’Doherty
Mr Blackmore Mr O’Farrell
Mr Brogden Mr D. L. Page
Mr Chappell Mr Peacocke
Mrs Chikarovski Mr Phillips
Mr Cochran Mr Photios
Mr Collins Mr Richardson
Mr Cruickshank Mr Rixon
Mr Debnam Mr Rozzoli
Mr Downy Mr Schipp
Mr Ellis Ms Seaton
Ms Ficarra Mrs Skinner
Mr Fraser Mr Souris
Mr Hartcher Mr Tink
Mr Hazzard Mr J. H. Turner
Mr Humpherson Mr R. W. Turner
Dr Kernohan Mr Windsor
Mr MacCarthy
Dr Macdonald Tellers,
Mr Merton Mr Jeffery
Ms Moore Mr Kerr
Mr Harrison Mr Glachan
Mr Hunter Mr Kinross
Mr Markham Mr Schultz
Mr Nagle Mr Slack-Smith
Mr Rumble Mr Small
Mr Sullivan Mr Smith

Question so resolved in the affirmative.

Motion agreed to.

Suspension of standing orders, by leave, agreed to.

Mr WHELAN (Ashfield - Minister for Police) [12.41 p.m.]: I move:

That the following items of general business undisposed of at the close of the second session of the Fifty-first Parliament be restored to the business paper -

(a) Notices of Motions (for Bills) - Nos 2 to 8;

(b) Orders of the Day (for Bills) - Nos 2 to 8, 10 to 16;

(c) Orders of the Day (General Orders) - Nos 1 and 2;

(d) Notices of Motions (General Notices) - Nos 1 to 8, 12, 13, 15 to 17, 19, 20, 22 to 24, 27 to 32, 34, 35, 37, 39, 41, 43, 44, 46, 50 to 53, 55 to 73, 75, 76, 78, 80, 83 to 95; and

(e) Orders of the Day (Committee Reports) - Nos 1 to 8.

I thank the Opposition for its support and obviating members having to move motions on each item of business. The items I have enunciated will now be included in the business paper.

Motion agreed to.

Mr CARR (Maroubra - Premier, Minister for the Arts, and Minister for Ethnic Affairs) [12.43 p.m.], by leave: I move:

That members of the Legislative Assembly of New South Wales in Parliament assembled express their profound sorrow at the recent death of Mother Teresa of Calcutta.

It will surely be remembered as a remarkable synchronicity of our times that two of the world’s most famous women should have died in the same week. Both events caused sadness around the world. Both funerals were attended by more than a million people and witnessed on television by as many as two billion people. Yet the contrasts in the lives and deaths of these two women, Diana, Princess of Wales, and Mother Teresa, could hardly have been greater. Diana’s life was a paradigm, a parable even, of the last two decades of the twentieth century; her death a stark tragedy. Mother Teresa’s life transcended time and place. She embodied a
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tradition going back to the beginnings of Christianity 2,000 years ago. She died peacefully, as she would have wished, with her Sisters of Charity, among the poor of Calcutta. Yet her life ranged over the revolution and cataclysms of this century.

When she was born in 1910 in Skopje of Albanian parents her birthplace was under the rule of the Ottoman empire. India was part of the British empire when she began her work there in 1929. At the request of Mikhail Gorbachev in 1987, she established a hospice in Moscow when it was still the capital of the Soviet empire. Her fascination with India began as a child when missionaries from the subcontinent gave a talk at her school. She went to India at the age of 18 after joining the Sisters of Loreto, an Irish order, and became principal of St Mary’s High School in Calcutta. In 1948 she left the order and founded her own, the Missionary Sisters of Charity, dedicated on Franciscan principles to serving the destitute and dying in the slums of Calcutta.

She began with a few sisters and a handful of rupees. By the time of her death she headed a network of 4,000 nuns and 120,000 lay workers in hospitals, orphanages, leper houses and AIDS centres in 500 sites in a 100 countries around the world. The first mission established in Australia by Mother Teresa and the Missionaries of Charity is at Bourke in the electorate of Broken Hill. The expansion of her missions was based on her formidable skills as a fundraiser, and she was absolutely single-minded in this pursuit. When Pope Paul VI left her the white limousine he had used on his visit to India in 1968, she immediately, and without his permission, raffled it to raise funds. In all other respects, for her to question the Pope’s authority was unthinkable. Her faith was simple and uncomplicated. She said, "I see God in every human being." For Mother Teresa this meant especially, in her words, "All those people who feel unwanted, unloved, uncared for throughout society, the people that have become a burden and are shunned by everyone."

True to her cause, she found the poverty in rich, first world countries like ours more sinful and objectionable than the poverty in the third world. At Number 10 Downing Street she rebuked Margaret Thatcher on the living conditions of the London homeless living in what she called cardboard coffins. The rich and powerful of the world delighted to honour her, but she was interested in honour only so far as she could use it to further her work. She was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979. Mother Teresa was inflexible in her devotion to the teachings of the Catholic Church and never imposed sectarian tests on those she served. That is why she was able to cross the boundaries of race, colour and creed around the world, and why today she is mourned most deeply of all by the Hindus and Muslims of the Indian subcontinent.

Nevertheless, Mother Teresa did make converts by the example of her life and work. One such was the English journalist Malcolm Muggeridge, who did indeed go to Calcutta to scoff, but remained to pray. His television documentary and subsequent book, which first presented her on the world stage, was called Something Beautiful for God. There are many millions around the world today who will repeat those words as a prayer and as Mother Teresa’s earthly epitaph.

Mr ARMSTRONG (Lachlan - Leader of the National Party) [12.48 p.m.]: On behalf of the National Party I join with the Premier in expressing the sympathy of the National Party on the death of Mother Teresa, a truly remarkable person. The Premier has outlined the history of Mother Teresa. She was an extraordinary person, small of stature but with enormous courage and unbelievable physical and mental strength. Those qualities clearly have persuaded tens of thousands of people to follow her. Her personal strengths and courage were quite evident without any salesmanship. She did not require a television camera, a press agent or an organisation to promote her. She relied purely on her own magnetism and, most important, her own belief in Christianity and in people.

It is significant that in this age of materialism, when the success of people is often evaluated by their capacity to acquire material assets, somebody has been immortalised because she chose not to acquire material assets but instead to work with people. There is a strong lesson for the world to note. Material possessions may be what many people want but the world needs not material possessions but compassion, understanding, trust and moral and mental assistance. Much has been said of Mother Teresa’s work, and I wish to quote an article by Sarah Blake in the Sunday Telegraph, in which Mother Teresa is reported to have said:

It gives me great joy and fulfilment to love and care for the poor and neglected . . . the poor do not need our sympathy and pity. They need our love and compassion.

Loneliness is also a kind of hunger, hunger for warmth and affection and this hunger is much more difficult to quench than the hunger for a piece of bread.

It is significant that yesterday we debated a condolence motion for a much younger woman, Diana, Princess of Wales, because there is an
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enormous parallel between these two women. They radiated love, and love touched the hearts of the world’s people in both cases - because fundamentally people want to be loved. Mother Teresa gave comfort to the people of Calcutta and India and then spread her order throughout the world into more than 500 missions. She was called simply "Mother". The Premier mentioned her mission in New South Wales at Bourke. The article by Sarah Blake referred to members of the order in Orange. Everybody knows what the climate is like in Orange, and the only concession to the climate by members of the order is the wearing of socks with the traditional thongs. The sisters live a very modest life indeed. When the mission was started there the parish priest offered the sisters a larger house but they chose to live in a smaller house to show their humility and satisfaction with their status in life.

As instructed by Mother Teresa, the sisters never seek donations of money. They rely on those around them to donate the food, petrol, medicine and clothes that they need to survive. The superior of the house at Orange, Sister Eliezer, remembers that when she joined the order in the 1980s she had to carry an empty sack to Manila - in her home country - in the hope that it would be filled. The example set by sisters of the order established by Mother Teresa will go on. That will be her contribution to the poor of the world. I would like to read into Hansard one of Mother Teresa’s many prayers:

Dear Lord, the Great Healer, I kneel before You,
Since every perfect gift must come from You.
I pray, give skill to my hands, clear vision to my mind, kindness and meekness to my heart.
Give me singleness of purpose, strength to lift up a part of the burden of my suffering fellow men, and a true realisation of the privilege that is mine.
Take from my heart all guile and worldliness,
That with the simple faith of a child, I may rely on You.

That sums up a truly significant person who has had a dramatic effect on the world’s history. I express my personal sympathy along with that of my party to the world on the loss of Mother Teresa. I also express my thanks on behalf of my party for having had the privilege of having someone of the calibre of Mother Teresa in this generation.

Mr KNOWLES (Moorebank - Minister for Urban Affairs and Planning, and Minister for Housing) [12.54 p.m.]: I add my condolences for a woman who would almost certainly have considered her life to be unremarkable. Mother Teresa is well known for working with the poor, the sick and the anonymous. She did that not by exhorting others but with a sense of almost selfishness. I say "selfishness" deliberately because she would often say that she got far more from the poor than she could ever give to them. She considered those people the real heroes of modern life, and they sustained and nourished her faith.

She found those heroes all over the world, even here in Australia. From 1969 onwards she and her fellow sisters from the Missionary Sisters of Charity established mission houses in Wilcannia, Tenant Creek, Katherine, Darwin, Dareton, Bourke, Orange, Queanbeyan, Melbourne and Surry Hills in Sydney. Of course, their good work will continue with the same direct and simple approach that was the hallmark of Mother Teresa. The essayist C. S. Lewis once wrote:

Do not waste time bothering whether you "love" your neighbour: act as if you did.

This lesson in charity is certainly borne out in the life of Mother Teresa. She acted not from mere emotion but from a devout sense of faith, duty and will, and she has reaped her rewards. In doing so she has given us all an elegant and simple lesson as to how we should live. But greater still through her life, she magnified the dignity of the downtrodden to reveal their inherent value as human beings. The world will miss her presence. On behalf of my family and my constituents I express our profound sadness. May she rest in peace.

Mr HARTCHER (Gosford) [12.57 p.m.]: Mother Teresa was a woman who shone with goodness and who transcended so much of the evil and nastiness of this life. She did this by getting right into the most difficult, poor and deprived areas of the world’s societies. It was among the ordinary and ignoble, the poor and the sick that she chose to labour. Her mission was not only full of them but among them and with them. Many Indians believe that this life is followed by another, so there was no weeping at the passing of Mother Teresa. Instead there was gratitude for a woman many thought had been sent by heaven to the people of Calcutta, a woman who sacrificed herself to the poor and became one of them. Because she loved them she became one of them. This paraphrases a saying about Jesus Christ: that God sent him because He loved us and He made himself one of us.

In death as in life, Mother Teresa remained what the gospel calls a sign of contradiction to the world. Her humility was burdened by celebrity. She raised millions for her work but lived simply, befriending the rich and famous to aid the poor and the anonymous. She won access to global leaders. She counted Diana, Princess of Wales, as a personal friend. Pope John Paul II valued her as a revered
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colleague in Christ. But they were only the same to her as were the poor, the dispossessed, the sick and the dying of the slums of Calcutta. Everybody was beautiful because everybody was a creation of God.

Such living saints make doing good look easy when it is all but impossible. Only physically did Mother Teresa’s heart fail her, subjecting her to the years of illness that finally led to her death at the age of 87. Mother Teresa described herself in one interview as only a willing servant of God. She said, "I am like a little pencil in God’s hand. He does the thinking. He does the writing. The pencil only has to be allowed to be used." There are many people in our lives who touch us on an individual basis; there are some who touch all of society. Diana was one, and we mourn her; Mother Teresa was another one, and we mourn her also. These are the people who hold out hope to us that there is a goodness in humanity which will transcend all the evil that we see in the world around us, that the bad things that people create will be overcome by the good things they can do.

Many of us lose hope from time to time that that will ever happen, lost as we are in a world of sickness and ignorance and where life for many people is a tragedy. People like Mother Teresa remind us above all of the goodness of humanity and of the goodness of God. They give us hope that we can live up to the expectations, if not the same as they do, that they set before us and that we will be, like Mother Teresa, willing servants of God. Other members have spoken about Mother Teresa’s career. It remains for me to place on record the appreciation of all coalition members to her, to the Missionaries of Charity who continue her work, and to all who are inspired by her. I place on record my personal admiration for her and the admiration of the people of the central coast, especially in the electorate of Gosford, which I represent.

Mother Teresa will continue on as all good people do because the mission that she had in life was one that people of goodwill everywhere will take to heart. The Hindus have a religious belief that manifestations of goodness or evil are simply manifestations of the original god or goddess of goodness or evil. Mother Teresa was often seen as a manifestation or avatar of Kali, the goddess of compassion and mercy, and many Hindus accepted her as such. In fact, Brahmans and high priests of the Hindu faith regularly paid tribute to her. One of the great Brahmans of Calcutta said, "I have worshipped the Kali of stone. Now I have met the Kali of flesh and blood." She was an inspiration not just to Christians but to people of all religions. That was represented at her funeral when members of the Sikh, Hindu and Islamic religions paid tribute to her. She is a woman who transcended this world. May she rest in peace.

Mr WHELAN (Ashfield - Minister for Police) [1.01 p.m.]: I join with the Premier and other members to take this opportunity to register the condolences of the House in the recent passing of a most remarkable woman. Mother Teresa, a Catholic nun who devoted her life to the poorest of the poor, was buried recently in her adopted city of Calcutta. She arrived in Calcutta in 1929 and taught in the Loreto order schools. Whilst riding on a train in the Darjeeling area in 1946 she received her calling to serve God amongst the poorest of the poor. By 1950 Mother Teresa had founded the order of the Sisters of the Missionaries of Charity and a short time after had opened a home for the dying and her first orphanage.

The Missionaries of Charity, which began with 12 nuns, now has a membership of over 4,000 covering 517 missions and 584 charities. The missionaries span the globe with schools, clinics, orphanages and homes for the poor and the dying, including AIDS victims, in more than 127 countries, including Australia. The poor in Calcutta, Aboriginal people in Bourke, hungry street kids in Rome and babies with AIDS in Washington are all helped by Mother Teresa’s order. With the collapse of the communist regimes the missionaries also expanded in eastern Europe. Mother Teresa’s simple but powerful message that all people have a right to a life free from the horrors of poverty and her practical and effective actions to help improve the lives of the poor were rightly recognised in November 1979 when she was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize. Characteristically, Mother Teresa accepted the Nobel Peace Prize in the name of the hungry, the naked, the homeless, the crippled, the blind and the lepers - all those who feel unwanted, unloved and uncared for.

The ability of this remarkable woman to improve the lives of ordinary people was perhaps most dramatically expressed in 1982. In the middle of bitter fighting in Beirut between Israeli and Palestinian forces Mother Teresa was able to organise a cease-fire long enough to rescue from a hospital 37 retarded children caught in the fighting. Mother Teresa’s funeral was attended by church leaders and dignitaries from around the world. She received a state funeral from the Indian Government and thousands of people, regardless of their religious persuasion, lined the route of her funeral procession and paid their respects in the room where she lay in state.

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This most remarkable woman has provided an example to all of us of what can be done to make people’s lives better. Mother Teresa reminds us, particularly as parliamentarians, that we must always make sure that we do not abandon those in our society who most need our help. Her achievements also remind us that whilst problems can be difficult, steps can always be taken to resolve them. With the death of this diminutive woman the world has lost one of its giants. She was a good person, a great person, who touched and changed the lives of millions.

Mr COLLINS (Willoughby - Leader of the Opposition) [1.04 p.m.]: On 5 September the world lost Mother Teresa, who was aged 87. Born in 1910 in Macedonia, Mother Teresa was the youngest of three children of an Albanian builder. At the age of 18 she joined the Order of the Sisters of Charity of Our Lady of Loreto in Ireland and trained with the Loreto Sisters in Dublin. In December 1928 Mother Teresa journeyed to India and continued to Darjeeling at the base of the Himalayas, where her religious training continued. The following January she arrived in Calcutta, the capital of Bengal, India, to teach at a school for girls. It was in Calcutta that she was first moved by the presence of the sick and dying who populated that city’s streets in record numbers. Sister Teresa, as she then was, experienced a life-changing event in September 1946 on the long train ride to Darjeeling where she was to go on a retreat and to recover from suspected tuberculosis. She had a life-changing encounter with what she described as "the living presence of the will of God". Mother Teresa recalled:

I realised that I had the call to take care of the sick and the dying, the hungry, the naked, the homeless - to be God’s love in action to the poorest of the poor. That was the beginning of the Missionaries of Charity.

She quickly asked permission to leave the Loreto congregation and to establish a new order and she received that permission from Pope Pius XII. Three years later she and her Missionaries of Charity began the work for which they have been noted since. Her order received permission from Calcutta officials to use a portion of the abandoned temple to Kali, the Hindu goddess of transition and destroyer of demons. It was in that sanctuary that Mother Teresa founded her Home for the Dying. She and her colleagues gathered dying Indians off the streets of Calcutta and brought them to this home to take care of them during the days before they died. For her work she earned the name for which she is now famous around the world, that is the "Saint of the Gutters". In an interview with Malcolm Muggeridge in the book Something Beautiful for God Mother Teresa tells how, for the first time, she picked up a woman from the street. She said:

The woman was half eaten up by rats and ants. I took her to the hospital, but they could do nothing for her. They only took her because I refused to go home unless something was done for her. After they cared for her, I went straight to the town hall and asked for a place where I could take these people, because that day I found more people dying in the street. The employee of health services brought me to the temple of Kali and showed me the "dormashalah" where the pilgrims used to rest after they worshipped the goddess Kali. The building was empty and he asked me if I wanted it. I was very glad with the offer for many reasons, but especially because it was the center of prayer for Hindus. Within 24 hours we brought our sick and suffering and started the Home for the Dying Destitutes.

Since then, more than 40,000 men, women and children have been taken from the streets of Calcutta and transported to the sanctuary Mother Teresa established in the 1950s. Nearly half of those people had the opportunity to die in the environment of kindness and love that Mother Teresa created. Those who did not die were sent to homes where they could receive continuing care, and many were found jobs by the sisters. In the decades that have passed since Mother Teresa’s mission was first established, the Missionaries of Charity have grown from 12 sisters in India to more than 3,000 missions throughout 100 countries worldwide. That devotion towards the poor won her respect throughout the world and the Nobel Peace Prize in 1979. This House records the passing of one of this century’s most remarkable women. May she rest in peace.

Mr BECKROGE (Broken Hill) [1.09 p.m.]: I join other honourable members in this condolence motion to a great person. I do so for two reasons - personally from my own heart and on behalf of the many people who have seen the good works of her sisters in my electorate in Bourke. Mother Teresa came to Australia in 1985 and shocked us by saying something that we all knew but did not want to talk about - the way that we had treated our indigenous persons. We had thrown money about but had not solved any problems. Coming from a background, about which we have heard today, of caring for the indigent people of Calcutta, she told us in the bluntest terms that we were not doing enough for our indigenous persons and were not tending to their social problems. There was money but that was not what was needed. In 1969 the Indian Sisters, as we refer to them in Bourke, came and brought a special compassion for human beings that nuns of all orders possess.

Her sisters persevered through many difficult times. It is a sad fact of life that a lot of people regarded their initial work as something that was
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probably not needed. The need to look after Aboriginal people was not recognised, but these black sisters really worked and, in a short while, became very well accepted and loved. They came from many places around the world to Bourke. Today Bourke has four Missionary Sisters of Charity: Sister Prakashita, Sister Amalia, Sister Hannahri and Sister Maria Isabel. They perform the same work as their sisters all around the world in providing succour to those in our community who do not have the ability to pick themselves up and bring themselves into normal society. In Bourke they are regarded very much as part of the scene. They work very quietly and very effectively with people who really have very little avenue of gaining their own self-respect and dignity. Mother Teresa chose the words of Jesus for her guiding principles: "Whatever you do for the least of my people, you do for me." That is a moving statement, whether you are a Christian, a Jew or of some other following. Those words transcend all dogma. They say it all. They were her motto.

Mother Teresa and the sisters who worked for her order and for God certainly carried out her message from Jesus. I am not a particularly religious person, but I believe there is some greater being. The mission of the Missionary Sisters of Charity was never really a religious mission, but a mission to give people the dignity they would not otherwise have. As I said earlier, for decades governments have thrown money at social problems, particularly in relation to the indigenous people of Australia, but it has not had the effect that the small number of sisters who have worked in Bourke in my electorate have had. All the money that has been thrown at our social problems has not achieved what they have achieved in their own quiet way in Bourke. I pay tribute to Mother Teresa and to her leadership. I was proud to be able to express my condolences the other day at the Indian Consulate and to write in the book that her leadership gave inspiration to us all.

Her life gives a dimension to our lives as members of Parliament. Many people are willing to do things for nothing. As members of Parliament we are paid well. Most people who care for others are now paid well; they usually have families of their own to feed. But the Missionary Sisters of Charity live in the most difficult circumstances. The Leader of the National Party said that in the City of Orange they dress in their traditional garb of saris but with socks and sandals. Bourke does not get quite as cold as Orange. It certainly has cold winters, but it does not snow. The Missionary Sisters of Charity put aside all their worldly possessions and the comforts we expect in order that they might care for people. That is a message for us all. I am glad that the Parliament of New South Wales has taken this opportunity to salute not only Diana, Princess of Wales, whose death was a tragedy, but also a lady who worked quietly, a lady who was a great human being. I convey to the sisters my condolences. I am pleased to join in the general condolences of the Parliament.

Mrs CHIKAROVSKI (Lane Cove) [1.15 p.m.]: I express my very deep feelings of sorrow at the passing of Mother Teresa. There is a certain karma in the fact that on the day the Princess of Wales was buried Mother Teresa died. On that one day two of this century’s most prominent women were recognised around the world for their contributions to worthwhile and charitable causes. They were joined in a way which neither of them probably ever imagined. It is with great regret that I acknowledge that Mother Teresa has passed and left us. We have lost probably one of our living saints. Like many people in this House, I suspect, I grew up with Mother Teresa as a reasonably regular feature in my life. When we were at school we heard much about what she did and the work of her nuns. She was always held out to us as an icon, as someone to whom we should aspire in terms of goodness and charity.

Over the years many a priest has stood in the pulpit on Sunday and urged us to follow the ways and the life of Mother Teresa: her commitment to simplicity; her commitment to working with the poor; her absolute and complete commitment to the vows she took, not only the vows of poverty, chastity and obedience, which most religious orders take, but a fourth vow, a pledge of service to the poor. It is ironic that we are standing in this Chamber today, in the seat of power in New South Wales, in a powerful position talking about someone whose absolute commitment was to the most powerless people in our community. I suspect that she would smile quietly down from heaven and find a certain irony in our doing this.

Having grown up with someone like Mother Teresa as very much a part of my childhood and my more adult life, I feel a very personal sense of loss. I never met Mother Teresa, I have never been to India and I cannot in any way relate to her work. But she was certainly a source of inspiration to a number of young people, not just women and not just the many thousands who joined her in her work. As I understand it, there are now some 4,000 sisters of the Missionaries of Charity and 450 men in a separate men’s order. Over the years hundreds and probably thousands of people have volunteered to work with her in Calcutta, some for as little as a few days and others for a number of months. They
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did so because they wanted to be with a woman whom they found inspirational, and also because they wanted to be touched by that sense of spirit which, I understand, all those who worked with her came to know.

I do not support all of Mother Teresa’s ideas, and I do not think I am alone. She was known to be very dogmatic about certain issues, and I suspect that is one of the reasons the present Pope was so firmly committed to her. I have a slightly different view of what we should do about contraception, and I certainly have a different view of what we should do about the discussion, at least, of female clergy. Those two topics were definitely not on Mother Teresa’s agenda. Having said that, differences sometimes make us even closer. You have to admire someone who was as strong in her feelings as Mother Teresa was about those issues, amongst others. In the long term, Mother Teresa will have a bigger impact than can be anticipated at this time. If politicians, priests, business people, community workers, et cetera adopted the philosophy to which Mother Teresa was dedicated - that is, the idea of working selflessly for those who are less fortunate than ourselves - our local community and our global community would be a better place.

There are moves to expedite the beatification of Mother Teresa; in the Catholic Church one normally has to wait about five years before such a process can proceed. Millions of people around the world would quietly testify to the fact that Mother Teresa has lived her life as a saint. She probably does not need the recognition to give her that nomenclature, but she deserves it. I look forward to any moves that ensure her speedy beatification. I presume that her canonisation will be discussed down the track. There have been outpourings across the world in relation to Mother Teresa - people from all religions, from all walks of life, from the highest to the lowest, have come together to express their deep and personal sense of loss at her passing. The Indian Prime Minister, Inder Kumar Gujral, summed it up best:

She was an apostle of peace and love. She will be much missed. May she rest in peace.

Mr MOSS (Canterbury) [1.22 p.m.]: The death of Mother Teresa means that the world has lost its greatest advocate for the poor and possibly the greatest worker among the poor through the great work of her order, the Missionaries of Charity. Although the great work of the Missionaries of Charity will continue, it is fitting that there should be a motion of sympathy in honour of the founder of the order, Mother Teresa. Until her death, Mother Teresa was the head of the order, the anchor, the inspiration to a group of nuns that now boasts a congregation of 3,000 working in 25 countries. Mother Teresa’s mission was not unique - her work was based on examples set for us by Christ and her brand of charity goes back many hundreds of years. It is as old as St Francis of Assisi, who taught us that if we really want to work for the poor, we should strip ourselves of our own wealth, become poor like them, be poor with the poor. It is argued that only then can we really feel the needs of the poor for support and affection. Mother Teresa lived by that philosophy to the ultimate degree. We should all feel privileged to have lived in her time. Throughout the passage of time she will endure as one of the greatest persons to have ever lived.

I was privileged to have been in New York when Mother Teresa died, a city that holds her in great esteem. Well before she set up convents in this country she was working with the poor in New York. For example, she set up a centre in Greenwich Village for needy AIDS sufferers at a time when the world was only talking about the epidemic and not much was being done to support those in need, particularly the poor who contracted the virus. The people of New York loved Mother Teresa and they gave her a send-off in true New York style. An impressive requiem mass took place at 11.00 a.m. at St Patrick’s Cathedral in Manhattan on Monday, 8 September, just three days after Mother Teresa died. I attended the mass and, of course, there was standing room only. Although it was a reverent and solemn occasion, there was nothing morbid about it. Mother Teresa was elderly; she had been ill for some time; her death came as no surprise. Rather than being a sorrowful affair, the atmosphere at the mass was a real celebration of the life of this outstanding woman.

At the end of the mass the Mayor of New York, Rudolph Giuliani, spoke in praise of Mother Teresa. He had a lot of nice things to say about her. He was particularly grateful for the fact that his children had met her. The mayor said that he has to say no to people every day of his working life, but he then said - in the broadest possible New York accent - that where Mother Teresa was concerned he somehow could never find himself saying no: when she wanted parking spaces, she got them. Everyone clapped in response. Cardinal O’Connor, the Archbishop of New York, responded to the mayor’s comments and thanked him for what he said. He added, "You know, the way you spoke you gave the impression that somehow you had choices." There was thunderous applause when he said that because his comments indicated how one could never say no to Mother Teresa. The cardinal went on to say to the
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mayor that Mother Teresa’s nuns were still working in New York and would need the parking spaces.

Mother Teresa’s nuns work in Sydney. I have always thought that their presence in our city is a blight on our society. We are an affluent society, yet there is a need for the work of these women. We tend to ignore the poor - many people boast that we have a good welfare system in this country. This is where we differ from Mother Teresa: we tend to question the reason for poverty before we are prepared to help; Mother Teresa and her band of nuns go out, no questions asked, and help anyone in need. That is real charity, and that is what has made her so great. Mother Teresa has left us with a great legacy: the order of nuns that she established and the example that she left us - that is, in our own way we should endeavour to follow her example by showing real care and compassion for the poor.

Mr O’DOHERTY (Ku-ring-gai) [1.28 p.m.]: On behalf of the people of Ku-ring-gai and Christians in New South Wales, I pay tribute to Mother Teresa for the work that she did among the poor, particularly in Calcutta. In paying tribute to Mother Teresa and her life, there is a challenge for us in her death. We read in the Bible of the mission that Jesus Christ carried out while on earth and the extraordinary number of people who flocked to hear him speak, to be healed by him, to touch the hem of his garment. In this age it might be hard for us to imagine what it may have been like when Christ’s mission was being played out on this earth. In Mother Teresa we see a glimpse of that. She was well-known and was able to tell kings, princes, government leaders and even Mayor Giuliani of New York what to do and how to live their lives. However, she shunned the ways of this world. Like Jesus Christ, she laid down her life in order that others could have a better life. Unlike Jesus Christ, she did not die on a cross for men and women everywhere to be reconciled with their creator; that sacrifice was made by Jesus for Mother Teresa and us. She followed Christ and the teachings of Paul and others in the Bible in laying down her earthly life to create a better life for others and to have eternal life.

On one of those great occasions when crowds flocked to hear Jesus he said to them, "Blessed are the meek for they shall inherit the earth." That beatitude presents to us one of the great paradoxes, but it is one of the most simple yet powerful teachings of Jesus. Indeed, Mother Teresa became renowned on this earth because she shunned the ways of this world. And in doing so she has gained a far better life. At this moment Christians everywhere will be confident in the knowledge that Mother Teresa is enjoying the treasures that she has laid up for herself in heaven. After we pass this motion of condolence I will ask, and I encourage honourable members to ask, "What are the ways in which we can lay down aspects of our life today in order to emulate not just Mother Teresa’s example, but indeed Jesus Christ?"

Ms ANDREWS (Peats) [1.30 p.m.]: It is with a sense of deep humility that I speak in support of the motion of condolence on the death of Mother Teresa of Calcutta, foundress of the Missionaries of Charity, who devoted most of her life to the destitute and dying. Mother Teresa was small in stature but big in heart and compassion. Agnes Gonxha Bojaxhiu was born on 27 August 1910 to Albanian parents in what was formerly Shkup, Albania, in the Ottoman Empire, and now known as Skopje, Yugoslavia. Her belief in the Catholic faith was deep and unswerving and at times she was criticised for always adhering to the teachings of the church. In 1928, at the age of 18 years, Mother Teresa went to Ireland and joined the Order of the Sisters of Loreto. Shortly afterwards, she became principal of St Marys high school in Calcutta, India, where she taught students from middle-class families, but she did not remain blind to the plight of the poor and the dying in the city of Calcutta. Mother Teresa abandoned her teaching career and pursued her deep desire to work among the poorest of the poor in the slums of Calcutta and throughout the world.

Mother Teresa studied nursing, and municipal authorities gave her a pilgrim hostel near the sacred Kali temple. It was there in 1948 that Mother Teresa founded her congregation, the Order of the Missionaries of Charity. In 1950 the Order was sanctioned by Pope Pius XII, and in 1965 it became a pontifical congregation. Her followers were many and soon Mother Teresa and her fellow congregational sisters became a common sight in the streets of India’s cities. Today the congregation of the Order of the Missionaries of Charity conduct more than 460 centres in more than 100 countries throughout the world, including Australia. The centres care for the dying and the destitute, for homeless children, for AIDS sufferers, and many others. The list goes on and on.

In 1981 and 1990 Australia was honoured with a visit from Mother Teresa. Mother Teresa perhaps would have remained almost an unknown figure had not the famous British journalist Malcolm Muggeridge gone to India in 1968 to interview her. The British Broadcasting Corporation television documentary entitled Something Beautiful for God was released shortly afterwards. In her now famous
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interview with Malcolm Muggeridge Mother Teresa described how she picked up a woman from the street. She said:

The woman was half eaten up by rats and ants. I took her to the hospital, but they could do nothing for her. They only took her because I refused to go home unless something was done for her. After they cared for her, I went straight to the town hall and asked for a place where I could take these people, because that day I found more people dying in the street. The employee of health services brought me to the temple of Kali and showed me the "dormashalah" where the pilgrims used to rest after they worshipped the goddess Kali. The building was empty and he asked me if I wanted it. I was very glad with the offer for many reasons, but especially because it was the center of prayer for Hindus. Within 24 hours we brought our sick and suffering and started the Home for the Dying Destitutes.

In 1992, due to ailing health, Mother Teresa was prepared to hand over the mantle of responsibility for her order. However, she was so revered by her fellow sisters that she was re-elected by the order. On 13 March 1997 when Mother Teresa was physically unable to continue in her role as the superior-general of the order the sisters elected Sister Nirmala to lead the order in continuing Mother Teresa’s work of love and compassion among the world’s poor and needy.

In 1995 Mother Teresa addressed the United Nations fourth world women’s conference held in Peking, China, when she spoke on the values of family life and the great gift of motherhood. Mother Teresa, and Diana, Princess of Wales, for whom a similar motion of condolence was carried in both Chambers yesterday, became good friends. On 18 June 1997 these two great world-renowned figures met in the Bronx and visited the people living in the slums of New York.

Many awards were conferred upon Mother Teresa during her long lifetime, and these included: 1971 Pope John XXIII Peace Prize; 1971 Prize of the Good Samaritan, Boston; 1971 Kennedy Prize; 1972 Koruna Dut, Angel of Charity, awarded by the President of India; 1973 Templeton Prize; 1974 Mater et Magistra; 1975 Albert Schweitzer International Prize; 1977 Doctor Honoris Causa in Theology, University of Cambridge; 1979 the Nobel prize for peace; and in 1982 Doctor Honoris Causa, Catholic University Brussels. In 1996 she was made an honorary citizen of America, the fourth person to receive such a nomination. The world will long remember Mother Teresa and her impact upon our lives. May she now be enjoying the rewards of a life well lived, exemplified by her great humility and boundless charity. May the work of the gentle Mother Teresa endure long after her passing from this earth, and may she now rest in peace.

Mr AQUILINA (Riverstone - Minister for Education and Training, and Minister Assisting the Premier on Youth Affairs) [1.36 p.m.]: The biographical details of the life of Mother Teresa have been recorded and will be widely published. But probably what will never be recorded is the enormous impact she had on the lives of so many millions of people during her lifetime and will continue to have long after her earthly life. Each one of us who has witnessed the extraordinary work of Mother Teresa cannot help but be moved by her enormous compassion and by her dedication to her faith and to the right of individuality of every human being.

I have been strongly moved by the work of this extraordinary person. I deem myself fortunate to have lived at the same time as Mother Teresa. When I was young and going through my primary years I used to draw a lot of strength and inspiration from reading books about the lives of Saint Joan, Saint Brigid, Saint Francis of Assisi, Saint Ignatius of Loyola and others such as Edmund Rice, founder of the Christian Brothers, one of whose schools I attended. I drew a lot of inspiration from Edmund Rice for his selfless dedication to the young poor children of Ireland during his time, and for all that he did for working-class children.

In later years when I found out about the work of Mother Teresa I could not help but be inspired by the enormous number of paradoxes that shaped her life. She was a physically small and frail woman who, in the company of others, was always physically dwarfed by those around her, yet she stood as a giant among all kinds of people from around the world. She towered over heads of state and people whose philosophical insights have inspired others in their turn. She was a person who never sought to lead but a person whom millions were prepared to follow. Mother Teresa had a distinct and innate love of and belief in the dignity of the individual. She believed that every person was created by God for a purpose, which she deeply acknowledged. Her care for the dignity of each and every person inspired millions and led others to follow her and to admire the work that she did.

Another irony or paradox in her life is how she went to the most miserable places and into the most dire poverty to find the most explicit joy. She talked constantly about the joy of her life, yet she found that joy not in the same circumstances in which others find joy; she found that joy in the gutters and slums and among the most dejected and the most heartbroken. She was able to carry this joy with her always. She did not write huge tomes about her work - others willingly did that - and it is
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through the mouths of others that we learned so much about the wonderful things that Mother Teresa did and her wonderful achievements. Millions of people referred to her as a modern-day saint. Undoubtedly, and within the terms of the beatification process of the Catholic Church, she will finally be proclaimed a saint because her whole life was full of miracles. She worked miracles in millions of ways and for millions of individuals, whose lot she improved. She inspired millions of people, whose lives have been so much richer because of the love she gave to those in her care, to us and to the world.

Mother Teresa’s work will live on for centuries. Like the saints of old, for hundreds of years to come people will be reading about her work. They will be enriched by her example and the work that she set in train among the poor and the most miserable human beings, bringing joy and happiness to them. Fortunately, I had the opportunity to meet Mother Teresa. I met her not as one would have expected, by chasing her, but because she came to a place that she felt was worthy of visiting. That place was Blacktown, my home town and the place where I lived. In early October 1981, about two weeks after my election to the Parliament, Mother Teresa visited Blacktown and Mount Druitt during her four-day visit to Sydney. I remember cramming with many others into what was not a large hall at St Patrick's Catholic Church in Blacktown. I was one of the privileged people. As a newly elected member of Parliament I was able to speak to her and be near her.

What stood out on that occasion was that Mother Teresa’s presence was a great inspiration to all present. People approached her to touch the hem of her cloak. People vied with each other simply to say hello, and in some cases people touched her from behind because they felt inspired to do so. Mother Teresa did not have prepared notes and did not attempt to deliver great oratory. However, everyone listening to her speech was deeply moved, and remained silent. It was a speech of anecdotes and personal experiences. She spoke about ordinary people doing ordinary things and how she and others were able to help them in an ordinary way, yet she was able to lift everyone in the hall by her example and by what she said. I remember her speech vividly because it was moving and inspiring, and because it made one feel that every person has a dignity which all of us should honour and praise, and for which all of us should work. Mother Teresa also had a sense of humour. That is one side of her which probably does not come out much in the comments made about her. In an article in the Sydney Morning Herald of 3 October 1981, Allan Gill, in referring to a press conference given by Mother Teresa, said:

What is joy? Mother Teresa explained: "We try to share with others the joy of those who abide with Jesus."

She told an anecdote. "I met a cancer sufferer and told him his pain was the kiss of Jesus, a sign that ‘you are close to him.’ He replied, ‘Please tell Jesus to stop kissing me.’"

The fact that she repeated that anecdote at a press conference and received the same amused reaction as is evident in this Chamber indicates that even the kiss of Jesus in such painful circumstances has a smile on its face. I am sure that there is a smile on the face of Mother Teresa today, as there is a smile on the faces of the millions of people she helped and whom her sisters continue to help with their missionary zeal. I, together with the Premier and honourable members who have spoken, convey our sincerest sympathy to the Sisters of the Missionaries of Charity. To Sister Nirmala Joshi, the new superior-general who was elected only in March this year, we extend our best wishes for the work which she and her fellow sisters are doing on behalf of thousands of people around the world. As honourable members have heard, the order has about 460 centres in more than 100 countries. A number of those centres are in Australia, including one in Bourke, as the member for Broken Hill said. Mother Teresa’s work will continue to live on and all of us will continue to be inspired by what she did and by what, through others, she continues to do on behalf of the poor people in Australia and around the world.

Members and officers of the House stood in their places.

Motion agreed to.

[Mr Deputy-Speaker left the Chair at 1.47 p.m. The House resumed at 2.15 p.m.]

Petitions praying that the office of Governor of New South Wales not be downgraded, and that the role, duties and future of the office be determined by a referendum, received from Mr Blackmore, Mr Brogden, Mrs Chikarovski, Mr Collins, Mr Debnam, Mr Downy, Ms Ficarra, Mr Glachan, Mr Hazzard, Dr Kernohan, Mr Kerr, Mr Kinross, Mr MacCarthy, Mr Merton, Mr O’Doherty, Mr O’Farrell, Mr Phillips, Mr Photios, Mr Richardson, Mr Rozzoli, Mr Schultz, Ms Seaton, Mrs Skinner, Mr Smith and Mr Tink.

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Petition praying that Manly District and Mona Vale hospitals not be downgraded, received from Mr Brogden.

Petition praying that the maternity ward and birthing centre at Camden District Hospital be retained, and that the hospital be retained as a general hospital, received from Dr Kernohan.

Petition praying that the Cyprus-Hellene Club, in Elizabeth Street, Sydney, be retained as an Aboriginal history and heritage centre, received from Ms Moore.

Petition praying that Bega and District Hospital be reclassified as a base hospital, received from Mr Smith.

Petition praying that the Isolated Patients Travel and Accommodation Assistance Scheme be continued, at the present level of funding and subject to consumer price index increases; that refunds be made within four to six weeks; and that the provision of air fare funding be maintained by medical practitioners, received from Mr Smith.

Petition praying that capital funding be provided for Moruya District Hospital to enable surgical ophthalmologist Dr P. Larkin to provide a full range of eye surgery, received from Mr Smith.

Petition praying that Ryde Hospital and its services be retained, received from Mr Tink.

Petitions praying that, in line with the Inspector General’s report of 1993, permanent dedicated police officers be retained at police and community youth clubs, received from Mr Beck, Mr Blackmore, Mr Cruickshank, Mr Jeffery, Mr Richardson and Mr Schultz.

Petition praying that Riverwood police station not be closed or downgraded, received from Ms Ficarra.

Petition praying that Swansea police station be reopened, received from Ms Hall.

Petition praying that the Pennant Hills patrol not be closed and that the police resources available to the Pennant Hills patrol be increased, received from Mr O’Farrell.

Petition praying that a railway station be built at Blue Haven, received from Ms Hall.

Petitions praying, on behalf of the National Federation of Blind Citizens of Australia, for better on-train announcements, received from Mr MacCarthy and Mr Rogan.

Petition praying that the permanent conservation order on the Canterbury Sugar Works be extended, and that the building be restored to preserve its historic value and to enable it to be put to public use, received from Mr Moss.

Petition praying that Main Road 272 be sealed between Tanja and the Murrah River, received from Mr Smith.

Petition praying that Peter Glen Trotter be reinstated as an employee of the Roads and Traffic Authority, received from Mr Watkins.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I draw the attention of honourable members to Standing Order 143, which
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states that at the time of giving notice the original signed notice must be handed to a Clerk at the table. The member for Gordon is writing out his motion and therefore it is not in the hands of the Clerk. I will not accept the notice today, but I will accept it as the first motion tomorrow if it is in written form.

Mr COLLINS: My question without notice is addressed to the Premier. Did Bob Hogg, the Labor mate he commissioned to look into the privatisation of electricity, say "there’s no absolute certainties" that electricity prices will fall for consumers following privatisation? Will the Premier give a steadfast guarantee, perhaps signed in blood, that consumer prices will fall and jobs will be protected as a result of the power privatisation that he has now decided to embrace?

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I place the honourable member for Ermington on three calls to order.

Mr CARR: Opposition members have had 10 long weeks to sharpen their pens for this day and to line up the grand inquisitor to put the Government on the spot.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the Deputy Leader of the Opposition to order.

Mr CARR: Yet all we get at the first question time, after 10 long weeks -

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the Leader of the Opposition and the honourable member for Georges River to order.

Mr CARR: I am reminded of what this cry-baby had to say about electricity privatisation in the week the House last met. Honourable members may have forgotten that on that occasion he said, "What will the Premier do about the power blackouts caused by electricity unions going on strike?" That was back in June. We were headed for power blackouts. The Deputy Leader of the Liberal Party laughs. During the parliamentary recess of three long months, he only came into the news presenting a cheque for $900 to sign up bogus Liberal Party members.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Hurstville to order.

Mr CARR: What a terrible thing branch stacking is! What a sad thing to happen to any great party! The only time in the three-month parliamentary recess that he touched a financial issue was a $900 cheque to sign up branch members. But what a model his leader sets because in the 10 weeks that the Parliament was not sitting, the Leader of the Opposition issued a grand total of precisely six press releases. We looked for them in the Parliamentary Library. The Library has a little file showing that in the entire time the Parliament was in recess the Leader of the Opposition released only six statements. I guess it is a reflection on how competently my Government is handling all the great issues of state, including electricity.

Mr Photios: On a point of order. The Leader of the Opposition asked a very specific question about privatisation of electricity. Difficult though it may be for the Premier, he did not answer the question, is not answering the question and should be drawn back to the question.

Mr SPEAKER: No point of order is involved.

Mrs BEAMER: My question is directed to the Premier. What is the Government’s response to the recommendations of the police royal commission’s investigation into paedophilia?

Mr CARR: The royal commission’s report on paedophilia was an Australian first. For the first time in this country’s history we have had the benefit of a detailed investigation of the issue and an equally detailed plan to deal with it. We have had 140 recommendations to consider, each designed to help and protect children from abuse by predators.

Mr Collins: On a point of order. This is plainly a ministerial statement. This ministerial statement should have been made before question time, and I should have had a right to reply to this ministerial statement.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! The Premier is entitled to respond to the question asked by the honourable member for Badgerys Creek. It is far too early for the Chair to rule whether this is a ministerial statement.

Mr CARR: There were 140 recommendations, each designed to help us protect children from abuse. I say at the outset that it will take some time
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to put all of them in place. However, the Government will put legislation to the Parliament this session. I would like to use this opportunity to pay tribute once again to royal commissioner Wood and his team for their efforts in exposing the dimensions of this scourge on the community. He has both the total support and the confidence of my Government. The creation of the Child Protection Enforcement Agency in July last year has given us the nation’s best police unit of that kind. The CPEA has now laid more than 500 charges against paedophiles. This level of activity was previously unknown, and it is a sad reflection on the state of policing in New South Wales that that was the case.

Mr Hartcher: On a point of order. Mr Speaker, I draw your attention to the very learned ruling by Speaker Kelly in 1976. I think you were a member of this Chamber in those days. Speaker Kelly ruled:

Ministerial statements are covered not by the standing orders but by usage and practice. Statements of public importance which announce and touch on some policy of or proposed action by the Government constitute a ministerial statement.

The Premier is dealing with an important matter of policy, and he is stating the proposed actions of his Government. It is very important and we acknowledge that, but I submit to you that it is a ministerial statement and I would ask that you so rule.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I have listened closely to the Premier. He has indicated legislation could be introduced but he has not gone on to detail Government policy.

Mr CARR: The CPEA was praised by the royal commissioner. In addition to that, four joint investigation teams, known as JITs, are now operating; another four will begin shortly. They were recommended by the royal commission in its earlier report and we have implemented them. The royal commissioner has indicated his satisfaction with how they are working. I am able to report to the House that in the teams’ first month of operation 18 people have been arrested and a total of 52 charges have been laid. The joint investigation teams have dealt with 129 abuse cases. Seven cases have been brought before the Children’s Court and 40 apprehended violence orders have been taken out. I can report to the House that of the royal commission’s 140 recommendations the Government has commenced or completed implementation of a third. I can report to the House that work has begun on the remainder of the recommendations which relate to the key areas of the Children’s Commissioner, complaints handling, pre-employment screening, and investigations against staff. Let me now turn to some of the specific recommendations made by Justice Wood and the royal commission. My Government supports the creation of a register of sex offenders. I have written to the Prime Minister requesting -

Mr Collins: On a point of order. Plainly, the Premier is now talking about proposed Government action on this extremely important issue. It is an issue which warrants a ministerial statement. Rather than take the time of question time, when members should be able to ask questions of the Government, the Premier should have addressed this issue when you called for ministerial statements earlier. That would have given an opportunity for me to respond on behalf of the Opposition, which is consistent with the proper forms of this House. This is a ministerial statement.

Mr SPEAKER: I remind the Leader of the Opposition that two opportunities exist for ministerial statements. At the end of question time the Premier may wish to make a ministerial statement.

Mr Whelan: On the point of order. Mr Speaker, I would have thought that Speaker Rozzoli’s rulings on ministerial statements would have more weight in this Chamber than former Speaker Kelly’s. I refer you to Decisions of the Chair, page 5744 of Hansard in 1988-90. Speaker Rozzoli ruled:

In answering a question a Minister may give facts about certain things or give facts about matters and initiatives which are proposed by the Government.

That is a very good ruling and I ask you to uphold it.

Mr Photios: On the point of order. The Premier has three times used the words "report to the Parliament" in his answer. In other words, he is not responding merely to a question without notice but he is actually making a ministerial statement on the detail of some of the 140 recommendations. Going to your earlier ruling, and very appropriately the action to be taken, the point of the Leader of the Opposition is that the Premier is now dealing with future and intended legislation. He is dealing with the detail. In every sense of the words, unqualified, this is a ministerial statement.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is no point of order.

Mr CARR: My Government supports the creation of a register of sex offenders. I have written
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to the Prime Minister requesting that the creation of a national register be put on the agenda for the next meeting of the Council of Australian Governments. Mr Speaker, I seek leave to table this letter.

Leave granted.

In line with the royal commission recommendation, it must be a national register with a uniform approach in all States and Territories. The Government accepts the royal commissioner’s view that a register of sex offenders based on the British system is preferable to a Megan’s law approach. Discussions are already under way with the British police about the operation of their register and a warning system which is activated in exceptional circumstances. The United Kingdom Sex Offenders Act was passed earlier this year. It established a national register of sex offenders including paedophiles. It established that the amount of time that a person will remain on the register will be in proportion to the seriousness of the offence.

My Government supports the creation of an independent children’s commissioner. As recommended by the royal commission, this will take over the Child Protection Council and some of the Community Service Commission’s responsibilities for children. In establishing the new commission it is essential that we involve key groups, such as the New South Wales Council of Social Service and the New South Wales Child Protection Council, in providing advice on the new commissioner’s functions, structure and resources and the future of the CSC’s responsibilities to people with disabilities and the homeless.

Establishing an organisation with a role as vital as that of the new Children’s Commission should not be done in haste. I will report back to the House when details of the commission’s role, structure, responsibilities and funding are finalised. The report makes a number of recommendations regarding the way in which community services are delivered. The proposal for a children’s division within the Department of Community Services was considered by the Government when it received the report on DOCS from the Council on the Cost of Government. The Government then did not and now does not see this as the way forward for the department. The department already has embarked on a process of major restructuring to improve service delivery across the board. The Government has also accepted other recommendations - 12, 16, 19, 20 to 28 and 32 - relating to standards and improving service delivery. In many cases implementation is already under way.

The New South Wales Crime Commission will receive a reference to use its powers to investigate matters relating to paedophilia. This will enable it to use coercive powers, such as phone tapping, search powers and notices to produce documents, when these would assist the Child Protection Enforcement Agency. I can report to the House that the Police Service has already referred two matters to the Crime Commission and discussions are under way to finalise the ongoing reference.

My Government supports pre-employment screening of people working with children. The departments of health, education and community services have already introduced screening procedures to prevent convicted paedophiles from working with children. New South Wales has obtained an agreement to create a national system of information sharing between police, community services and education Ministers in other States and Territories. The system will outline employees’ rights and appeal mechanisms, will be secure and will have accountability arrangements.

In relation to investigation of allegations against staff, Justice Wood highlighted the potential conflict of interest that may occur when agencies undertake investigations alone. Departments must continue to take responsibility for handling these allegations. However, the Office of the Ombudsman will be given the power to independently oversee these investigations as it currently does in the New South Wales Police Service. In addition, the Government has released a discussion paper on teacher registration as recommended by the royal commission.

Mr O’Doherty: A discussion paper? Can we afford that?

Mr CARR: What did you do about these problems in seven long years? The reason we have a royal commission report is because the coalition failed to act on these matters.

Mr O’Doherty: On a point of order. I draw your attention to a ruling by Speaker Ellis. At page 87 of Decisions from the Chair it is stated:

To preserve the rights of members during Question Time, when replies to questions are to take the form of Ministerial Statements they should be deferred until the time allotted for questions has expired.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! No point of order is involved. The honourable member will resume his seat.

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Mr Collins: On a fresh point of order. The Premier has just indicated that this is a ministerial statement. The Premier asked, "What did you do?" The Premier wants to know our response on these issues. There can be no clearer proof that this is a ministerial statement.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! No point of order is involved. The Leader of the Opposition will resume his seat. The honourable member for Bulli will remain silent.

Mr CARR: The royal commission recommends the introduction of audio- or video-taped out-of-court statements and proposes pre-trial hearings in which the children’s evidence - examination and cross-examination - is recorded. The Attorney General is currently preparing legislation to enable taping of children’s evidence. I expect it will be introduced in this session. The Attorney General is also considering commission recommendations to create new offences. The Attorney General will also be raising with the Bar Association, the Judicial Commission and the Law Society the recommendation for specialised training for lawyers and judges to assist and to question children more effectively.

Mr Armstrong: On a point of order.

Mr SPEAKER: Before I give the call to the Leader of the National Party, I remind members of the Chair’s concern about points of order taken in order to interrupt a statement from any member in the House. I have already ruled on ministerial statements. I trust this point of order does not deal with that matter.

Mr Armstrong: In light of the last few words of the Premier in which he clearly indicated that he will introduce legislation, it is a ministerial statement.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! The member will resume his seat.

Mr CARR: The Children’s Commission will have an important role to play in monitoring the quality and relevance of this type of training. A confidential fourth volume of the royal commission report cannot be released until certain legal proceedings have been completed. Justice Wood referred to this in chapter 7 at page 739 of the report. I have not seen the volume and it is being held by the Police Integrity Commission. The royal commission’s final report is the beginning of our work, not the end. Children must be protected and we now have a blueprint to do just that - to protect children right across the community. This report gives New South Wales the opportunity to lead the nation in dealing with this most fundamental of society’s problems.

Mr PHILLIPS: My question is addressed to the Premier. Why has the Premier suddenly backed out on his legislated deal with the racing industry on the New South Wales TAB sale? Given this betrayal, which the Australian Financial Review says puts the Premier "dangerously close to presiding over the State’s first privatisation disaster", how can anyone trust any deal he makes with electricity workers and with consumers?

Mr CARR: It is great to hear from the shadow Treasurer, because we never hear from him when Parliament is not sitting.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Burrinjuck to order.

Mr CARR: The only reference he had in the past 10 weeks was at a press conference of his leader regarding Badgerys Creek. His leader said that the coalition supports an airport at Badgerys Creek and the press said "Hold on. Your Deputy has just been down here saying that Badgerys Creek must never proceed." That is the only time his presence flickered on to the political radar screen during the past 10 weeks. And his first question is apparently based on an Australian Financial Review report that is two weeks old. That is the extent of their research. Negotiations are currently taking place between the racing industry and the TAB. The Treasurer has held discussions with the industry and the board will report back to Cabinet on the outcome of those talks, which bear not the faintest resemblance to what Mr $900 man had to say.

Mr McMANUS: My question without notice is addressed to the Minister for Police. What progress has the Government made in implementing recommendations of the royal commission’s final report into the New South Wales Police Service?

Mr WHELAN: The honourable member for Bulli has asked an important question. The findings and recommendations of the Wood royal commission have presented the Government and the Parliament with an historic opportunity to change
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the Police Service. In reforming the Police Service the Government wants to succeed where others have failed by ridding the service of corrupt police but by supporting the vast majority of our Police Service - honest policemen and policewomen. Today I want to send a message to our dedicated, hardworking police: your honesty is valued; your service is commended. Men and women like you protect and keep our community safe.

I can advise the House that as a result of the work of the royal commission and subsequent Government legislation, corrupt police are being cleaned out of the Police Service. As a result of the commissioner’s confidence provisions, 73 police have either left the service or been terminated. A further 37 officers left under the royal commission amnesty, and another 210 officers are in the process of being examined by Commissioner Ryan. In addressing the recommendations of the royal commission the Government has already implemented or begun implementing 87 per cent of the recommendations of the first report, 93 per cent of the recommendations of the second report and 70 per cent of the recommendations of the final report. The remaining recommendations are under close consideration, meaning that they require further negotiation and consultation. I should briefly mention some of the recommendations from each chapter as an indicator of progress. Chapter 2 deals with police responsibilities in New South Wales.

Mr Hartcher: On a point of order. Mr Speaker, I am aware of your rulings, but we are about to hear, as indicated by the Leader of the House, chapter-by-chapter discussion of the findings of the report and the response to them. According to Speaker Kelly and Speaker Rozzoli that constitutes a ministerial statement, and we invite the Minister to make such a ministerial statement at the end of question time.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! No point of order is involved.

Mr WHELAN: All the recommendations -

Mr SPEAKER: Order! The honourable member for North Shore will remain silent.

Mr WHELAN: All the recommendations in chapter 2 regarding the responsibilities of the Police Service, drug law enforcement, gaming and betting, and police and community youth clubs have been implemented or are being implemented. In relation to PCY clubs, a review of the role of police within PCYCs has commenced. The Government is heartened by the royal commission’s statement:

The positive aspects of police involvement in the PCYC movement are obvious and convincing and the Royal Commission would not suggest that the Service should severe its relationship with the clubs.

Chapter 3 refers to transforming the New South Wales Police Service. The report outlined the structural and organisational proposals to transform the New South Wales Police Service. No recommendations are more important than 10 and 11, requiring the further return of police from behind desks back to the streets. The restructure, which commenced on 1 July, is radically transforming the Police Service. I can announce today that the new look Police Service involves nearly 1,000 police moved from behind desks and from distant locations into the front line - local area commands.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! Members will cease interjecting.

Mr WHELAN: To recap, nearly 1,000 police have been moved from behind desks and from distant locations into the front line.

Mr O’Farrell: Where?

Mr WHELAN: To your local area command. That is nearly 1,000 police fighting crime in partnership with the local community. An additional 100 police were allocated around the State in mid-August. New equipment costing $2 million has already been purchased and allocated to the front line of policing, including 700 new computers, gun cabinets, batons, mobile phones, video cameras, radios and bullet-resistant vests. These changes are part of the Government’s commitment to put more police where crime is worst and to provide better protection and safety for our local communities all over New South Wales. In relation to recommendation 15, the Commissioner of Police will soon provide to the Government a proposal for anti-terrorist and VIP protection agencies.

In relation to the age of police recruits, the Government supports a minimum age of 21. Commissioner Ryan has advised that this recommendation should be phased in over a number of years, with full transition implemented after the Olympics. The royal commission’s recommendations concerning employment, administration of the police superannuation scheme, impediments to lateral entry, secondment and transfer, sick leave and hurt-on-duty appeals are currently either implemented or under consideration in consultation with the Police Association, the Commissioned Police Officers Association and the Public Service Association. The education and training of police officers is central to
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reform of the Police Service. The Government wants the finest system in the world for training and educating police officers. That is why, in line with recommendations 41 and 102 concerning education and training, an advisory committee on police education will be established consisting of expert educators in the field of policing.

Commissioner Ryan and I are currently finalising the committee’s membership and terms of reference. In accordance with recommendations 36 and 37, dealing with the Police Academy, the Council on the Cost of Government has commenced a review. The Government has no plans for the academy to be moved from Goulburn. It will not entertain the likes of police academy passing-out parades on the steps of the Opera House. The royal commission, despite not finding any evidence of corruption in the police prosecution process, recommended that the Director of Public Prosecutions should have responsibility for all prosecutions. The Government is currently consulting the Police Service, the Police Association and the DPP in the interests of making the best possible decision.

Chapter 4 of the royal commission’s report proposed reform to the complaints and discipline system and to the development of its replacement, a new employment management system. The Government has already established the Police Integrity Commission and commenced the legislative changes necessary for the new EM system. Commissioner Ryan’s implementation progress report, with a view to making necessary legislative changes during this session, will be provided within the next four weeks. Chapter 5 deals with civilian advisory councils and requires greater consultation and communication by the Police Service and police administration with the community. I can advise the House that this will be co-ordinated by local police working closely with Neighbourhood Watch, local government and local bodies such as chambers of commerce.

Chapter 6 deals with the internal witness program. The Government recognises the importance of an effective internal witness program in the fight against corruption. The service introduced a new internal witness support policy in September last year, and work is continuing on the remaining recommendations. Chapter 7 deals with the criminal investigation integrity process. It concerns measures to promote the integrity of criminal investigative procedures. The commissioner has already established a new expert advisory group concerning major criminal investigations. Its members include John Hatton, former member for South Coast, Sandra Egger and Chris Masters. A new crime agencies proposal is currently being finalised by Commissioner Ryan. The Law Reform Commission will provide advice on the royal commission’s recommendations on electronic recordings, video devices and tracking devices.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is far too much audible conversation in the Chamber. The honourable member for Pittwater will remain silent. I call the honourable member for Wakehurst to order.

Mr WHELAN: Chapter 8 of the royal commission report contains a range of recommendations to promote integrity within the organisational culture of the Police Service, not just in police operations.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Wyong to order.

Mr WHELAN: Many of these matters have already been addressed, including the commitment to a uniformed service, the implementation of drug, alcohol and integrity testing, and the adoption of a code of conduct. Commissioner Ryan will report on ethics and integrity implementation strategies in his second submission to the Government within the next four weeks. To monitor the reform process the royal commission at recommendation 174 called for the appointment of a strategic auditor to report to the Police Integrity Commission and the Minister for Police. The Government supports this recommendation, and I have requested the Police Integrity Commission to prepare a blueprint for its implementation. As the royal commissioner reported, now is the time to challenge the cycle of corruption. The Government is driving the reform process. Corruption will not be tolerated. For a safer and more secure community, the old police culture must be left behind.

Mr DEBNAM: My question without notice is directed to the Minister for Gaming and Racing. Given that the Treasurer has broken his deal with the racing industry to give it a share of profits in the TAB, why should the industry have any future confidence in dealings with the Treasurer or the Government? What representations has the Minister made to the Premier and the Treasurer to honour these promises to the racing industry and get the TAB privatisation back on track?

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Mr FACE: I refer the honourable member to the answer given by the Premier, but just to add to that, the Deputy Leader of the Opposition has an absolute obsession with the privatisation of the TAB and he is doing everything he can to derail it.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for The Hills to order.

Mr FACE: He is known in most of society as a nark. The fact is that negotiating teams have been appointed and have commenced discussions.

Ms NORI: I ask the Deputy Premier, Minister for Health, and Minister for Aboriginal Affairs, representing the Minister for Community Services, a question without notice. Will the Minister advise the House of the impact of joint investigative teams of police and community services on child abuse in their first month?

Dr REFSHAUGE: In the first month of operation the results of the joint investigative teams, known as JITs, have been outstanding: 129 cases have been handled by the four joint investigative teams, 18 people have been arrested, 52 charges have been laid, seven matters have been brought before the Children’s Court and 40 apprehended violence orders have been taken out. The JITs comprise specially trained Department of Community Services officers and police who handle allegations of criminal child abuse. Since late July JITs have been operating at Ashfield, Parramatta, Penrith and Liverpool; by November JITs will operate at Kogarah, Wollongong, Newcastle and The Entrance. The JITs bring their specialised skills to an extremely difficult area and are proving effective in the many aspects of protecting children. They handle criminal cases of abuse, be it physical or sexual. In the first month of operation the JITs have dealt with 73 cases of child sexual abuse, 50 cases of physical abuse and six cases involving both sexual and physical abuse.

When dealing with child abuse one of the most important aspects is a fast response to ensure the security and protection of the child. Joint investigative teams have already proven their effectiveness at acting swiftly to protect children. In one case a child with bruising was brought to the attention of the Liverpool JIT by the school. JIT officers went to the school and interviewed the child, who did not disclose how the injuries occurred. The officers continued to pursue the investigation by immediately visiting the child’s mother. When they went to her home they found that she had two black eyes. An interim apprehended violence order was sought and the offender was charged that evening. The JIT also found the mother and child a place in a refuge that same day and ongoing support is being provided to the family through the Department of Community Services.

In another case, a 12-year-old girl made a complaint at school after watching an educational child protection video. The matter was referred to the Penrith joint investigative team, which immediately interviewed the girl’s father, who admitted the offences straight away. A telephone apprehended violence order was taken out that night and the father was charged by police two days later. The father is now in gaol and the girl and her family are receiving counselling and support from the Department of Community Services and the Department of Health.

The joint investigative team approach is different to the way that agencies have responded to child abuse notifications in the past. Prior to the Carr Government initiating these teams, all agencies responded separately, and that did not offer the same security and effectiveness for the victim and his or her family. With the joint investigative team there is a quick and co-ordinated response and a minimum delay in investigation. There are also fewer interviews for the victim, making the investigation process less traumatic and intrusive. There is a friendlier and more secure environment for a child during the investigation and delay in getting matters to court is minimised. Vulnerable children have greater protection than ever before; victims of child abuse will no longer be confronted with a multitude of agencies and officers. The investigation process will be about ending the trauma of abuse and helping to build a secure future for the child and his or her family. The royal commissioner, when commenting on the joint investigative teams, stated in his report:

The changes that are now being implemented appear to be both sensible and welcome, and offer a comprehensive coverage, in conjunction with the work of the CPEA in relation to serial offenders and serious criminal paedophile activity.

Mr ARMSTRONG: My question without notice is directed to the Premier. Did he promise New South Wales farmers that he would protect the interests of Western Division farmers after seeking further legal advice? As he has received that legal advice, will he move to schedule their leases under the Native Title Amendment Bill?

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Mr CARR: I made no promise to them other than to seek additional legal advice to that provided by the Crown Solicitor.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Coffs Harbour to order.

Mr CARR: The minutes of the meeting, attended by Roger Wilkins, the head of the Cabinet Office, and others, make that clear. We have received the additional legal advice, which I am happy to make available.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! The Premier is answering a serious question asked by the Leader of the National Party. I ask the honourable member for Northcott to restrain himself and listen to the Premier.

Mr CARR: I made the legal advice available to the Prime Minister on Monday. In case it has escaped the notice of members of the National Party, the Native Title Amendment Bill is a Commonwealth bill.

Mr Armstrong: It is your lease.

Mr CARR: The Leader of the National Party will have to listen: it is Commonwealth legislation. I will continue my lesson in basic civics. Who is in power in the Commonwealth Parliament? The Liberal Party and the National Party. If the friends of the Leader of the National Party want to add that provision to their federal legislation, they can go ahead because it is their legislation. We have dispatched our independent legal advice to the Commonwealth Government, and that advice supports our case. The Cabinet Office has advised me that it has received the Commonwealth legal advice, which comes to the same conclusion as our advice.

Mr CRITTENDEN: My question without notice is directed to the Minister for Education and Training, and Minister Assisting the Premier on Youth Affairs. What provision has been made to supply computers to New South Wales schools?

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Ku-ring-gai to order.

Mr AQUILINA: As this is Education Week, this question is most timely. This year our theme is: providing for a secure future. It is a theme that underpins all that this Government is achieving and seeking to achieve in New South Wales public schools. Earlier this week I released a 28-page report on information technology in New South Wales schools.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Vaucluse to order for the second time.

Mr AQUILINA: The report, entitled "Preparing Students, Teachers and Schools for the New Millennium", shows that New South Wales is leading Australia in a comprehensive strategy to provide students with the latest and best computer resources and materials. I have announced the distribution of a further 31,000 computers. More than 55,000 computers have been distributed in New South Wales schools since the last election. The Government has delivered on an important commitment to ensure that students, teachers and schools are prepared for the next century.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! Honourable members will cease interjecting while the Minister attempts to answer questions. A member is on three calls to order. I hope it will not be necessary for the Chair to take any further action during the remainder of question time.

Mr AQUILINA: We are redefining the basics to include reading, writing, spelling -

Mr SPEAKER: Order! Serjeant, remove the honourable member for Vaucluse.

[The honourable member for Vaucluse left the Chamber, accompanied by the Serjeant-at-Arms.]

Mr AQUILINA: We are redefining the basics to include reading, writing, spelling and information technology. Having sound knowledge, skills and an understanding of computers and their expanding use in society is critical to ensure that students secure their future educational life and job opportunities. Today I announced the planned installation of Australia’s largest school computer network, which will link more than 2,200 public schools in New South Wales to a single computer system. The Carr Government will provide more than $9 million to link all New South Wales government schools to a single computer system using Novell’s latest software. This initiative will see the establishment of the most extensive and comprehensive computer network. It will change for ever the way schooling operates in this State and across the nation.

Under this program all schools and Department of School Education offices will be linked to a single system that will enable schools to
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communicate electronically with each other, the director-general and district offices, as well as with the wider community. We are revolutionising education in this State. Teaching and learning will never be the same again as a result of these initiatives. No government, certainly in Australia and perhaps in the world, has embarked on such an ambitious program to prepare students, teachers and schools for the new millennium. Our innovative computers in schools program is not simply the distribution of additional computers to schools; it is a comprehensive strategy that will ensure that schools have access to the latest information technology, and that students become proficient in the use of computer technology to assist their learning and teaching. It will also ensure that training and support are provided to enable the best use of available technology. The Carr Government’s $186 million computers-in-schools program is innovative and is leading Australia.

[Questions without notice interrupted.]

At 3.25 p.m. the House proceeded to the Legislative Council Chamber to attend a joint sitting to elect a member to fill a seat in the Legislative Council vacated by the Hon. Patricia Staunton, resigned.

At 3.25 p.m. the House proceeded to the Legislative Council Chamber to attend a joint sitting to choose a senator in the place of Senator Bruce Kenneth Childs, resigned.

At 3.40 p.m. the House reassembled.

Mr SPEAKER: I report that the House met with the Legislative Council in the Legislative Council Chamber to elect a member to fill the seat in the Legislative Council vacated by the Hon. Patricia Staunton and that Anthony Bernard Kelly was duly elected.

I report that at a joint sitting this day George Campbell was chosen as senator in the place of Bruce Kenneth Childs, resigned.

[Questions without notice resumed.]

Mrs SKINNER: My question without notice is directed to the Minister for Health. How much money has New South Wales Health spent defending itself in court hearings regarding the deaths of Colleen Campbell, David Wafer and Allison Carter and the unfair dismissal of Cynthia Kardell? How many nursing jobs could the Minister have saved with this money at the new Children’s Hospital, Prince of Wales Hospital and Prince Henry Hospital?

Dr REFSHAUGE: I am delighted that the honourable member for North Shore has asked a question, because she has been mainly silent during the past 10 weeks. Obviously not wanting to embarrass her leader, she has issued exactly the same number of press releases as her leader - only six - in almost twice as many weeks. Obviously members of the Opposition are developing their policies. Members of this House will remember the first policy that she came out with: when you have got a sick child, do not call an ambulance - a ripper of a policy! Probably you could stick that policy up in a hospital. We are waiting for the next instalment.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! The honourable member for Coffs Harbour will cease interjecting.

Dr REFSHAUGE: There is no doubt that honourable members will wait with bated breath to hear about the list of hospitals the honourable member for North Shore will privatise. Honourable members will well remember the privatisation of Port Macquarie Base Hospital, which cost significantly more than the privatisation of any of the peer hospitals that do the same work. If the former Government had not privatised that hospital, this Government could have employed even more nurses than it presently employs.

Mrs SKINNER: I ask a supplementary question. Given the Minister’s response - which was a non-response - I ask the Minister to identify how much money has been spent on barristers defending New South Wales Health in court cases relating to the deaths of patients in our hospitals.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! Would the honourable member read out her first question?

Mrs SKINNER: How much money has New South Wales Health spent defending itself in court hearings regarding the deaths of Colleen Campbell, David Wafer and Allison Carter and the unfair dismissal of Cynthia Kardell?

Mr SPEAKER: Order! The second question is not supplementary; it is the same as the first question.

Mrs SKINNER: On a point of order. My supplementary question asked about barristers in
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those court hearings. It was quite different, and supplementary, to my first question.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! The first question related to legal costs. The second question was about barristers’ costs, and they are legal costs.

Mr GAUDRY: My question without notice is directed to the Minister for Land and Water Conservation. What steps has the Government taken to implement reforms for the supply of water to regional and rural New South Wales?

Mr YEADON: Since the last session of this Parliament the Government has introduced landmark reforms of water management in this State. In the past, rural water management has been ad hoc, outdated in its approach, and not able to serve the community into the future. Many of our rivers and groundwater reserves are degraded and unhealthy. Symptoms include fewer native fish, invasions of European carp, toxic blue-green algae outbreaks, rising salinity, poor water quality, and some rivers being unfit to swim in or fish from. Not only has this Government recognised the problem of our water resource management but it has analysed the state of our waterways and is doing something about it.

Today I am pleased to announce the first round of appointments of independent chairs to head the community-led river management committees in the State, which represents a further advancement in the implementation of the Government’s water reform program. Those committees are a crucial part of the Government’s water reform package. The first committees to be established will be in the Hunter, the Lachlan and the Murrumbidgee river regions. I am pleased to announce that the new chairs for these first river management committees are: in respect of the Lachlan, Mandurama farmer and past president of the Country Women’s Association, Audrey Hardman; in respect of the Murrumbidgee, Charles Sturt University deputy vice-chancellor and principal of the Charles Sturt University Riverina campus, Professor Kath Bowmer; and in respect of the Hunter, Hunter Valley Research Foundation director of research, Dr Wedge Paradice. Those people will provide an independent oversight of the issues on the regulated rivers in each of those valleys. Additional committees will also be set up to address the unregulated streams and groundwater resources.

Those committees are the first of many local committees to be established across the State to play an active role in the implementation of the Government’s water reform program. Despite misleading public statements by members of the Opposition, a key goal in these reforms is to consult and to develop an effective working partnership between the Government and the community. People are part of this process. The make-up of the committees will vary according to the individual circumstances of each region or valley. However, 10 to 12 members of a possible 18 members of the new committees that I have announced today will come from the community, and therefore will represent community interests. This means that those committees will have an overwhelming majority of community representation, which will include a broad representation of irrigators, dryland farmers, conservation interests, and industry and scientific representatives. I formally welcome the new chairs of the first river management committees to what will no doubt be an historic process and one that will ensure that our rivers are better managed and have a sustainable future for the benefit of everyone in the State, but particularly for the benefit of farmers and irrigators.

Questions without notice concluded.

Mr HARTCHER: I seek the leave of the House to move a motion that standing and sessional orders be suspended to allow the Leader of the Opposition to reply to the Premier’s statement made this day in response to the Wood royal commission.

Leave not granted.

Mr WHELAN (Ashfield - Minister for Police) [3.48 p.m.]: I move:

That standing and sessional orders be suspended to:

(1) Permit consideration of the notice of motion given this day congratulating Athens on winning the right to host the 2004 Olympic Games.

(2) Enable six members to speak for 10 minutes each as follows:

(a) Premier;

(b) Leader of the Opposition;

(c) Minister for the Olympics; and

(d) one Government member and two other Opposition members.

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Mr HARTCHER (Gosford) [3.49 p.m.]: This is government by ambush, the ordinary routine of the House distorted by ambush. Yesterday, 24 hours ago, the House was told that the sessional orders were necessary for this session. The Leader of the House signed the routine of business document but made no mention of motions suddenly being sprung upon honourable members. The Opposition supports the concept of a motion to congratulate Athens - there is no argument about that. It is wonderful that for the first time since 1896 the Greek people have finally won the right to host the Games. However, that is not the issue. The issue is that when the Government first prepared the program it could have informed the House it would move this motion but it did not do that.

Mr Carr: When did you ever do that in government?

Mr HARTCHER: The Premier, old electricity privatisation, interjects. He would not answer a single question and does not have the guts to say a word about privatisation of the TAB or the electricity industry, yet he wants to go on about Athens hosting the Olympic Games for the year 2004. That is government in New South Wales - nothing about electricity or the TAB privatisation and nothing about health. The Premier now wants to talk about something that will happen 12,000 kilometres away. He should have the guts to answer a few questions in this House instead of trying to govern the House by irrelevancies that have nothing to do with the ordinary administration of the people of New South Wales.

I challenge the Premier to do something for the people of this State. He should look after their interests and tell them what he is planning to do with electricity. He should tell the House and his own members. Why is he not prepared to go on record about his stand on electricity or the TAB? He does not have the courage. When he was asked a question he would not answer it, yet now he seeks to alter the routine of business in this House to enable the Minister for the Olympics to grandstand for 10 or 15 minutes about Athens. The Minister for the Olympics spends all his time getting on planes to go over to Zurich, Berne or wherever, to report to the International Olympic Committee. He avoids anything to do with his own electorate; he would not go anywhere near Campbelltown and cares nothing for the people of the west. He is responsible for Sydney but we never hear much about that.

The Opposition supports and congratulates the Greek community, which is a wonderful community of which we are proud. It has enriched the life of the Australian people. The honourable member for Ermington and the Deputy Leader of the National Party have Greek Hellenic heritage and the Opposition acknowledges that. It acknowledges also that the Premier is not prepared to answer questions or come clean on the privatisation of electricity and the TAB. Every day he wastes the time of the House by seeking to have irrelevant matters debated, yet he will not answer questions asked of him. He should have the guts to tell the people of New South Wales his plans. Members of the Opposition do not want to wait until the October conference; they want to hear those plans now. They do not want to just see the Premier rolled at the October conference; they want to know his plans for the people of New South Wales. The Opposition does not oppose this motion being debated as a matter of urgency but does oppose the distortion of the procedures of the House by a Premier who does not have the courage to answer a question in this House.

Motion for the suspension of standing orders agreed to.

Mr CARR (Maroubra - Premier, Minister for the Arts, and Minister for Ethnic Affairs) [3.54 p.m.]: I move:

That this House congratulates the city of Athens and the people of Greece on winning the right to host the 2004 Olympic Games and acknowledges that this honour marks another milestone in the positive relationship between Sydney and Athens.

There was no-one more pleased than I in Monte Carlo in September 1993 when President Samaranch said, "And the winner is, Sydney." Honourable members will all remember my famous leap on that occasion. There I was, the Premier leaping for joy about that announcement - we are cutting that carefully into the new videotapes being made of the event. One can imagine my excitement when I happened to be, by chance of circumstance, in Athens when I saw and heard President Samaranch, on the CNN screen say, "And the winner is Athens." There I was, with the Australian Greek community, able to celebrate twice.

Mr Photios: Show us how you jumped!

Mr CARR: I shall not show honourable members how I jumped but I will give them a glimpse of the flag I proudly waved, the Athens flag. It was wonderful that also present were Greek Australians concluding a marvellous deal to bring a selection of Greek antiquities to Sydney in the year 2000. I was pleased to be there to sign on the dotted
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line, but the credit belongs to them. They happened to be in Athens at the time and I said to them, "You have won twice. Sydney, the city of your new homeland, the city of your choice and citizenship, will host the Games in the year 2000 but your old homeland will host the Games, as it deserves, in the year 2004." It is a win twice for Greek Australians.

The links between Australia and Greece are based on the experience of great immigrant people, the Greeks, discovering in this land a friendly new home. We watched Athens bid for the Games. It sought the centenary Games and competed with Atlanta but failed in the competition to host the Games in 1996. It should be recorded that the Greeks have marvellous goodwill towards Sydney’s successful bid to host the Games for the year 2000. There is no resentment, only warm support. Athens this time round was of the view that it deserved to win the Games. Therefore, it was somewhat of an anticlimax because the Greeks already regarded the Games as theirs. I was present with Greek Australians in the Panathenaean stadium where the first modern Olympic Games were held in 1896 - and what a breath of history it is - and there will be the opening ceremony of the Games in the year 2004.

Australia has a wonderful working relationship with the Greeks to build a strong bond. They can learn significantly from what is being done by Australians at the Homebush site and elsewhere to prepare this city for hosting marvellous Games, the best the world has seen so far, in the year 2000. I pay tribute to our colleague the Minister for the Olympics, staff of the Olympic Co-ordination Authority, members of the SOCOG board and staff of SOCOG for the tremendous progress that has been made. The work is running on time, on budget, with superb facilities in the largest stadium and, in the words of President Samaranch, the best aquatic centre the world has seen. It was my pleasure to speak to the Mayor of Athens, Mr Dimitris Avramopoulos.

Mr Hazzard: What did you say to him?

Mr CARR: I wished him luck in getting the Games. I said, "If you get the Games you must beat a quick path to Sydney so that you can see our plans and our preparations." I issued an invitation to him, recently repeated, to come to Sydney to inspect what we are doing. I met the Minister for Culture in the Greek Government, Professor Evangelos Evgenious, and also extended an invitation to him should Athens get the Games. After our meeting Athens of course did. The challenge of staging the biggest peacetime event in the world is immense. We learned a great deal from Atlanta and I would expect a large Greek contingent to be here in Sydney in September 2000.

Mr Schultz: They will come up from Melbourne.

Mr CARR: They will come from Melbourne in huge numbers to see the exhibition. I would think that about half a million Greeks from all around Australia, and other Australians, will come to Sydney to visit the Powerhouse Museum to see the outstanding exhibition of Greek antiquities between June and October 2000. This is the first time that the antiquities have been outside Greece. Many of them go back to the classical era, 500 BC, and the staging of the Games at Olympus. It is the greatest art exhibition Australia has seen. Greek Australians will take special pride in it. But given that Greece has secured the Games in 2004 it will stand as a dramatic pointer to the Olympic Games that come after Sydney’s. On the basis of this exhibition and the common purpose existing between Sydney and Athens linking 2000 and 2004, we can renew and rejuvenate the friendship of Australia and Greece, particularly the friendship that exists between Greeks in New South Wales and those in their native country.

The Australian Greek community has won twice. Sydney has an opportunity to enhance its relationship with modern Greece. Late last year there was the visit of the Greek Patriarch to Sydney. It was my honour in November last year to be with the Greek Patriarch in the beautiful Greek church in the electorate of Gladesville. I hope that before too long there will be another visit of His All Holiness to Sydney. It is a wonderful occasion to be able to join modern Athens in this celebration. The scope of the Games has grown immensely since 1896 but the Olympic ideals of fair play and friendship between nations remain unchanged. No two nations embody the spirit of the modern Olympics more than the only two nations which have been in every Olympic Games since 1896, namely, Australia and Greece.

Mr COLLINS (Willoughby - Leader of the Opposition) [4.03 p.m.]: On behalf of the Opposition I join the Government in passing on the congratulations of both parties in the coalition, the Liberal Party and the National Party, to Greece, and Athens in particular, on winning the bid to host the Olympics for the year 2004. Many of us would be aware of the effort that Athens put into winning the centennial Olympics only to lose to Atlanta. Those who travelled to Atlanta, including the Minister for the Olympics, who is present in the Chamber, and the shadow minister for the Olympics, the Leader of
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the National Party, were able to experience the great centennial Olympics - but in Atlanta rather than in Athens.

Athens was certainly the sentimental favourite for the centennial Olympics. Most people would understand the passion the Greek people felt - not only those in their homeland of Greece but also Greek Australians - for Athens to have the centennial Games. Despite an excellent bid by Athens and its unique historical background and qualification, the centennial Games were not held in Athens. Athens then hoped to pick up the next Olympic Games. The efforts to win the Olympics do not suddenly dissipate; they do not disappear overnight. Consistency is one of the key elements in winning the Olympic Games. Throughout history Greeks have shown enormous tenacity and persistence in pursuing their goals. Indeed, it is a feature of Greek Australians to work until they win their objective. So it was that Athens, having missed out on the centennial Olympics in 1996, disappointed again in not winning the millennium Olympics in 2000, which has gone to the great city of Sydney and which we will all enjoy three years from now, pursued the 2004 Olympics against a very tough field.

One of the prime contenders for the 2004 Olympics was Cape Town. The South Africans, on behalf of the African continent, had a very strong claim. The Olympics have never been held on the African continent. On behalf of all the peoples on the African continent Cape Town pursued the bid without sparing anything. Cape Town worked very hard to win the Games, as did the other finalists of Stockholm, Buenos Aires and Rome. It was a very strong field but Athens shone through. The persistence shown by Greeks throughout history again won through. We in the coalition deeply admire that persistence. We recognise the quality of the bid which was submitted by the Athens bid committee. We felt great sympathy for the Greek people who backed that bid. Many Greek Australians were able to take their own experience gained through the Sydney bid and pass it on to people involved in the Athens bid. A lot of clues were handed over and a lot of intelligence and goodwill gathered to support the bid of Athens for 2004.

Australians would have supported the Athens bid, given its strong claims for 1996 and 2000 and how close it had come. The 2000 Games were won under the previous coalition Government for the people of Sydney. We are delighted to congratulate Athens and the Greek people on this magnificent win. We were taken back when on 4 September we saw President Juan Antonio Samaranch announce that Athens had beaten the other four finalists: we remembered the sense of fulfilment and achievement when the announcement was made in favour of Sydney four years ago. We look forward now to seeing preparations by the city of Athens, that wonderful and original Olympic city, for the 2004 Olympics. It is fair to say that the successful Athens bid was based largely on the advanced state of construction of many facilities in Athens. The people there have made an effort to show the Olympic community that they will have facilities there that will do the job in 2004 to make the Games a worthy successor to Sydney’s.

Of course, much work needs to be done on transport, and the Greek Government is the first to recognise that. Indeed, that is a problem that has to be tackled here in Sydney and the detail finalised. Transportation for the Olympic Games is a major issue. I am sure that we will hear more about that from the Minister for the Olympics when he replies. The city of Athens had earlier successfully hosted the World Athletics Championships. That was an extremely important event to demonstrate the capacity, preparedness and determination of Athens in its Olympic bid.

I go back to the fact that Athens had learned so much from the successful Sydney bid and so much information had been passed on about that successful bid by the Fahey Government. The groundwork was done by Premier Fahey and Olympics Minister Bruce Baird and prior to that by Premier Nick Greiner. All the tips that come out of the experience of winning the Olympics have been passed on by many Australians who have visited Greece and by many Greek Australians who have passed on vital intelligence that enabled Greece to win the day on 4 September.

I join the Premier in passing on heartfelt appreciation for the efforts of all Greek Australians in supporting the bid. But more importantly, here is an opportunity to place on record the admiration felt by all Australians for people who have come to this country from Greece and have brought so many ideals which are sacred to us, including the modern sporting ideal embodied in the Olympic Games. To that end we owe the Greek people a debt of gratitude and, indeed, all of us are deeply conscious that without modern Greece, without the initiative it showed in 1896, there would be no Olympic Games here in the year 2000. It was the Greek people who originated the Olympic Games; it was the Greek people who revived the modern Olympics. The coalition warmly endorses the motion of the Premier.

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Mr KNIGHT (Campbelltown - Minister for the Olympics) [4.12 p.m.]: When the International Olympics Committee was deciding who would host the centennial games in 1996 Athens was clearly the sentimental favourite. After all, the modern Olympics had been revived in Athens in 1896. Despite that sentiment and favouritism, it lost in the bidding process to Atlanta. The Greek people and the people of Athens decided not to bid for the 2000 Games and did not bid against Sydney. In many ways we thank Greece for that. It was hard enough without having Athens added to the field. Athens decided to bid again in 2004. But it did not come back for the 2004 bid and simply say that the committee owed it to them. It did not come back and trot out its 1996 bid. As their bid leader Giana Angelopoulos said in her presentation to the IOC members in Lausanne shortly before the decision was made, they had learned from the deficiencies and criticisms that had prevented them winning in 1996 and they had overcome those criticisms and deficiencies.

Having overcome those deficiencies and having been up-front about what they had done and where they saw the deficiencies in the 1996 bid, they were unstoppable in their bid for the 2004 Games. Many cities bid and the five strongest bids were culled to a short-list. Yet every round of the voting was clearly won by Athens. The magnitude of its victory, 66 to 41, in the final round was comprehensive and indicated the depth of support amongst the IOC membership for the 2004 Games to be held in Athens. Athens was the clear and unambiguous winner.

Throughout the bidding process the Sydney Organising Committee for the Olympic Games quite properly took a neutral attitude. We had friends in all of the bidding cities and would have been happy with the outcome no matter who won. It is not proper for an organising committee to show favouritism. But certainly many Australians, particularly Australians with a Greek background, were happy to assist in the Athens bid because of the important community and cultural links between Greece and Australia. Those important community and cultural links are built upon important Olympic links. Australia’s first gold medallist, the great Edwin Flack, won his gold medals in Athens in 1896 at the first of the modern Games. When he won in both the 800- and 1,500-metre track events he was known to the crowd, where he was a great favourite, as Edwin Flack, the lion of Athens. He is immortalised in the naming of one of the major roads at the new Olympic park site at Homebush.

Australia and Greece have a rare distinction of being able to claim that they have participated in every modern Olympic Games. Many countries have not gone to the Olympic Games for various reasons, including political boycotts. Australia and Greece have been to every Olympics. The Premier indicated that there is an important link for the 2000 Games in Sydney. The Greek Government is loaning Sydney for three months a range of antiquities that have never been lent to any other country before and they are to be part of the celebrations for the Sydney 2000 Olympic Games. Of course, there is an even greater link and wonderful symbolism between Sydney in 2000 and Athens in 2004. That is that the Olympic flame comes from Mount Olympus in Greece.

A little over three months before the Sydney Games we will go to Mount Olympus and receive from the Greek people the flame for the Sydney Olympics. That flame will travel perhaps through Oceania - if some arrangements among the Oceania countries, the Federal Government and SOCOG can be put in place in the next few months - but certainly for 100 days around Australia, and ultimately it will light the cauldron in the Olympic stadium in Sydney. At the end of the Olympic Games that flame will return to Greece. What wonderful symbolism that we take the flame from Greece, we conduct the Games and return the flame to Greece for the 2004 Olympics.

In our preparations Sydney has received considerable advice and assistance from the Atlanta organising committee and the people of Georgia. We are determined to provide a similar level of assistance to the Athens organising committee which will be formed in the coming months. I was fortunate enough to be in Lausanne reporting on behalf of Sydney’s preparations to the IOC. I am pleased to report to the House, as would have been seen in the media, that the IOC was overwhelmingly positive in its response to Sydney’s report. The day after we reported, the announcement was made of the host city for 2004. I spoke that evening to Giana Angelopoulos, the leader of the Greek bid, and assured her of Sydney’s congratulations and of our support. I followed that up with a letter in which I said:

On behalf of the Sydney Organising Committee for the Olympic Games, may I congratulate you and your team on being selected as the host of the XXVIIIth Olympiad.

I know that Athens is dedicated to providing an outstanding environment in which to host the world’s premier sporting and cultural event.

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On behalf of SOCOG, may I offer our assistance in your preparations for the Games. SOCOG is ready and willing to provide to Athens 2004 whatever assistance or guidance that may be required as you move to develop your plans and preparations. We can begin immediately by exploring ways Athens 2004 can observe and participate in Sydney’s preparations.

SOCOG benefited greatly from the co-operation and assistance of the Atlanta Centennial Olympic Games Organising Committee (ACOG). Please be assured that SOCOG will maintain this spirit of co-operation between Olympic Cities.

Finally, congratulations and my very best wishes as you begin this most exciting and rewarding journey.

Yours sincerely
Michael Knight
President of SOCOG

To put in perspective the magnitude of the honour that Athens has received, it is worth noting that only three other cities have held the Games twice - London, Paris and Los Angeles. It is only a slightly larger group of countries that have held the Games twice, that is, the United States of America, France, the United Kingdom, Germany and Australia in 2000. So for Athens as a city and for Greece as a nation to receive the Games twice is a very special privilege. It is important to note that subsequent to the successful bid for the Olympic Games Greece has also made a bid for the 2004 Paralympics. I was also able to correspond with Mr Takis Apaconstanopoulos, who is the president of the Pan-Hellenic Federation of Sports for Disabled People in Athens, in very similar terms. I stated:

On behalf of the Organising Committees for the Sydney 2000 Olympic and Paralympic Games, may I congratulate you and your team on the selection of Athens for the Paralympic Games in 2004.

I know that Athens is dedicated to providing an outstanding environment in which to host this premier sporting event.

It is the seventh time the Olympics and Paralympics will be held in the same City, with Athens following on from Rome (1960), Tokyo (1964), Seoul (1988), Barcelona (1992), Atlanta (1996) and of course Sydney in 2000.

On behalf of the Sydney Organising Committees, may I offer our assistance in your preparations for the Games. The Committees are ready and willing to provide Athens with whatever assistance or guidance that may be required as you move to develop your plans and preparations.

I understand the Athens Paralympic Games will be staged some 10 days after the Olympic Games, making for a wonderful month-long showcase for the world’s best athletes.

Once again, congratulations and my very best wishes for what will be a most exciting and rewarding journey.

I am confident that Athens will do both the Olympics and the Paralympics proud in 2004. I join with the Premier and other members of the Parliament, and the organising committees of both the Sydney Olympics and Paralympics, in offering our congratulations. I again indicate publicly that we are very happy to assist in any way we can in its preparations. We look forward to welcoming the people of Athens to Sydney, not just at the time of the Olympics and the Paralympics but in the coming months and years as we freely exchange information and offer them our warm and sincere assistance.

Mr SOURIS (Upper Hunter - Deputy Leader of the National Party) [4.22 p.m.]: I eliniu Australesi vouleftithes lenne bravo Athina thio hiliathes ke tesera. I want to join with the Premier in congratulating Athens on winning the bid for the 2004 Olympic Games by uttering the first Greek words in this Chamber. To have the Olympic Games in Sydney in the year 2000, followed by the Olympic Games in Athens in 2004, is a double for Greek Australians. It is a remarkably heart-warming experience for all Greek Australians that the Olympic movement, the Olympic flame, the Olympic Games have touched the two countries consecutively in this way. I congratulate the Athens 2004 bid team, the Greek Government and the Greek people on the way in which they put together the bid and were successful in receiving the votes of the International Olympic Committee. The Sydney Organising Committee for the Olympic Games has been supportive of the Athens bid. Mr Rod McGeoch, in particular, has been involved and one of Australia’s two IOC members voted for Athens.

Almost one million people in Australia are of Greek heritage. As a result we have a very strong, continuing commitment to and affinity with the Athens 2004 Games. The Premier stated in this House that he was in Athens when the bid for the 2004 Games was announced. He is reported as having criticised Athens for what he perceived as an inadequacy of accommodation and an inadequacy of transport. He patronised the Greek people while he was a guest of the Greek Government in Greece. It is a matter of considerable shame that our Premier would say what has been reported. The words he used represent a grossly undisciplined and indiscreet act by the Premier. I rather fancy that the Premier’s words earlier were motivated partly by an attempt to recover some of the ground he lost with the Greek Australian community when his comments were widely reported in the Greek Australian media.

The Greek Government granted a unique and historic visit of Greece’s Olympic treasures to Sydney, the only visit in the 108-year history of the modern Olympics. It will be the only time the treasures have been allowed to depart the shores of Greece, and it is an honour that they will be in
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Australia during the Sydney 2000 Games, the Games immediately preceding the 2004 Games in Athens. I congratulate the Australian Hellenic Museum Association on the role its members played in securing the Olympic treasures. Several people are involved, but I mention particularly the chairman of the committee, Paul Nicolaou; the vice-chairman of the committee, Professor Aroney; the secretary of the committee, Mr Nick Pappas, who is in the gallery today; and Mr Manuel Comino of the committee. I also congratulate the joint patrons of the committee, His Eminence, the Archbishop of the Greek Orthodox Church, and His Excellency the Ambassador for Greece, on the role they played. If anybody is to be given credit for the fact that the Greek Government has given Australia this unique honour, it is that committee.

Indeed, that committee secured the letter of intent from the Greek Government that these treasures would come to Australia. The purpose of the committee is to create in Sydney, on behalf of Australia, an Hellenic-Australian museum. It is the dream of the committee and the dream of many Greek Australians throughout Australia to have a uniquely Greek museum in Sydney. It was always hoped that such a museum would be established in time for the Olympic Games. What better reason to establish it than to host the one and only visit of Greece’s Olympic treasures. The Government has the opportunity and the time to embrace this project; it must not be allowed to slip away. When I was Minister for Conservation and Land Management steps were undertaken to secure the meteorological building on Observatory Hill to accommodate the Greek museum. It is a vacant, appropriate looking and appropriately placed building in which such a museum might be established.

Without stretching this argument too much, when the Olympic treasures come to Australia - the only time they have ever left their holy place - this place will take on an Olympic spirit of its own. An Olympic flame should burn forever in the place in which the treasures are exhibited for their time in Australia; it is hoped that place will be a permanently established Greek museum in Sydney, which will display other exhibits. Displaying the Olympic treasures as a star exhibit in the Powerhouse Museum will not do justice to the great honour bestowed upon us by the people of Greece: to hold their treasures for three months on their behalf, on behalf of Olympism and on behalf of the world. We can do a lot better than that. We have an appropriate building, but it must be set up properly to ensure that it becomes and remains a shrine to the Olympic treasures of Greece and to the Greek population in Australia.

The arrangements made thus far are inappropriate. I hope the Premier takes my suggestion on board. It has been made in the best possible spirit because of my fervent hope that we not only host the Olympic treasures but also have a permanent memory to them and the Greek community in Australia today. The Government has a marvellous opportunity to embrace this concept. I presume that the Government will have considerable discussions with the Australian Hellenic Museum Association. We must not waste the three years that we have available to us. We have plenty of time to realise what has been a dream, and that it is within our grasp.

The International Olympic Committee has made a wonderful decision to return an Olympiad to Athens, a decision that will be welcomed by all followers of the Olympic movement. It will be an opportunity for Greece to enhance its infrastructure and to demonstrate its credentials. The Hellenic Olympic spirit will touch the people of the world. I support the Greek people and the Greek Government in their staging the 2004 Olympics. I endorse the sentiments of previous speakers: Sydney and Australia stand ready to assist Greece to ensure that the Athens 2004 Games are as good as the Sydney 2000 Games.

Mr MOSS (Canterbury) [4.32 p.m.]: I represent the largest Greek constituency in New South Wales. I am pleased to support the motion of the Premier, which congratulates the city of Athens on winning the right to host the 2004 Olympics. Finally Athens has been recognised as a host city for the Olympics; it deserves more than any other country the right to stage an Olympics. I always considered the decision of the International Olympic Committee to stage the 1996 Games in Atlanta to be a great loss for Australia and Greece - Melbourne and Athens both lost their bids. The Greek community in Australia had mixed feelings about the 1996 bids - both an Australian city and a Greek city were bidding. I shared with a number of my Greek constituents their loss when Athens did not achieve the centenary Games. Such a decision would have been appropriate because the first modern Olympics was held in Athens 100 years previously.

However, all things turn out for the best: Melbourne and Athens lost their bids in 1996; that has been Sydney’s gain for 2000, and Athens’ gain for 2004. My constituents of Greek background, who are also loyal Australians, could not be happier with the arrangement. The Greek people who have migrated to Australia have nurtured and promoted a wonderful relationship between our two countries over the years. That relationship will enhance
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Athens’ staging of the 2004 Olympics - Sydney is eager to share its 2000 Olympic experience with Greece to ensure Athens’ success. I presume that all honourable members have experienced Greek hospitality, and we could probably learn a thing or two from the Greeks about how to make visitors feel welcome. A recent survey revealed that 96 per cent of Athenians supported the hosting of the Games. Greek hospitality will be extended in its entirety during the 2004 Games. It is little wonder that Greece was able to confidently state in its bid that the Greek people are looking forward to welcoming the athletes, the members of the Olympic family and the guests from all over the world.

The Premier said that he was in Greece when the bid was announced. One week before the bid was announced I was in Stockholm, one of the bidding cities. On the surface, the atmosphere in Stockholm appeared to be similar to that of Sydney in 1993: a lot of banners were flying, T-shirts and coffee mugs with the Stockholm Olympic logo were on sale, and there was great excitement. However, it was not fulfilled. I spoke to only two people about the Stockholm Olympic Games bid - one was mildly supportive and the other was not interested at all. That summed up the feeling of the city; in fact, there were great divisions in Sweden as to whether the Games should be held there. Stockholm did not deserve the Games, and I am pleased that Greece won them.

When I was in Stockholm I was asked whether I supported the South African bid. It is assumed that because one lives in the Southern Hemisphere one is in favour of a country in that hemisphere. I said, quite proudly, that I supported Athens because of the rotten deal it got for 1996 and that it deserved to win. I have read Athens’ official bid, and it is excellent. Two of the major aspects of the bid are the city’s preparedness to improve its transport systems and to increase its green areas in the lead-up to the Games. That will be a great help for the people of Athens in the years to come. I congratulate the city on making those pledges. The beauty of the Games, as we have seen in Sydney, is not only the Games themselves but the infrastructure and the environmental improvements that will exist for years after the Games.

I appreciate that the Games need to be held in modern facilities. In fact, the majority of the events will take place where the recent World Athletics Federation championships were held in Athens. It is also great to see that the stadium in Olympia, where the first Games were staged, will be utilised. This city, with its important place in history, will add to the significance of this world event being held in Greece. Athens has hosted a number of large sporting events, including the Mediterranean games in 1991, the world rhythmic gymnastic championships in 1991, the world volleyball championships in 1994, the world equestrian cup in 1996, and the recent world athletics championships. In 1998 Athens will host the world basketball championships. Athens has hosted a number of other events over the years, too numerous to mention today. To coin a phrase, Athens has the track record to provide sporting events on a large and versatile scale. For that reason, the Athens 2004 Games will be successful. My Greek constituents and I congratulate Athens on achieving this well-deserved honour.

Mr PHOTIOS (Ermington) [4.40 p.m.]: Bravo Athina! Congratulations Athens 2004. As a proud Greek Australian in the New South Wales Parliament I join with my only other Greek Australian colleague in this House, the Deputy Leader of the National Party, in congratulating Athens and Greece on a splendid, magnificent win for the year 2004 when all of us can throw our hearts, bodies and souls into one Olympic event after another - Sydney in 2000 and Athens in 2004. For the Greek Australian community and for the Australian and Greek peoples collectively it will be a marathon festival. It will be a tremendous sporting event that will span four years and bring together a marriage between our two countries that has increasingly been a great feature of the Australian and Greek peoples over recent decades. As a Greek Australian member of Parliament I am delighted that I supported Athens in its Olympic bid for the year 2004 Games. I will quote from my statement of support dated 14 May offered to the International Olympic Committee in support of Athens Olympics 2004. That statement of support, which was forwarded with similar statements by my Greek Australian member of Parliament colleagues from around the nation, is as follows:

I am delighted to offer my complete support to Athens in its quest to stage the Olympic Games in 2004.

Greece and Australia share a wonderful bond of friendship and I as a Greek Australian MP well recall the tremendous support our Greek community gave to Sydney’s Bid to host the 2000 Olympic Games.

I have long believed the ancient City of Athens, born of the Olympic spirit and mother of the Games, should play a pivotal role early in the 21st Century by hosting the Olympics.

I both commend the candidature of Athens to the International Olympic Committee and congratulate the Australian Support Committee in its endeavours on behalf of ‘Athens 2004'.

Michael Photios MP

We have now given Greece what it deserves more than any other nation - even arguably more than
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Australia. As the mother, the brainchild and the genesis of the Olympic spirit, ancient and modern, it is only appropriate that Athens hosts the Games, even if it hosts them after Sydney. I am delighted that today members have an opportunity on a bipartisan basis to gather together to demonstrate that great spirit which forms the Australian body politic, particularly in unity with our Greek Australian community. However, I am deeply disturbed by the remarks made by the Premier on Greek soil, as Head of State in New South Wales, when he reflected on the capacity of the Greek nation to host the Games. It surprised and appalled me that a man of Premier Bob Carr’s intelligence could reflect on the capacity of Athens to host the Games once they were won. He reflected on the capacity of Athens to host the Games, given its transport infrastructure and its current accommodation capacity.

The Premier was out of step with both his job and the New South Wales public when he made those inappropriate remarks. The Premier of New South Wales should be ashamed of himself for those comments. I think he should reflect quietly on them and offer a suitable apology to both the Greek Government and the Greek Australian people. In that respect I join with my colleague the Deputy Leader of the National Party in dissociating myself from the remarks of the Premier. But I join with the Premier today on behalf of the New South Wales Parliament in supporting the Athens Olympic bid, which has now been won and which is now a reality for the year 2004. I join with my colleague the Deputy Leader of the National Party in paying tribute to the hardworking men and women who not just for months but for years have sought to bring the dream and the reality of a Greek Hellenic-Australian museum to the foreshores of our great island continent, one that has such a unique bond with the Greek people.

I am delighted that, for the first time in history and for the first time anywhere in the world, the Olympic treasures will leave Athens for Sydney. What an honour it is, not just for the world, that Greece has opened its heart and its treasures in the context of our own Olympic Games in the year 2000. It makes that marriage between Greece and Australia - between Sydney and Athens - a wonderful and treasured reality when, for the first time in world history, Greek Olympic treasures, the ancient Olympics from Olympia, will leave Greek shores and come to Australia. Some years ago, on my first visit to Greece, I visited Olympia. People from around the world would find such a visit an extraordinarily significant thing, but for someone of Greek heritage it was very moving. It is the sort of experience that can motivate even a Greek Australian born of Greek Australian parents to feel enormously proud of his or her Greek heritage. I am delighted that from Olympia to Sydney will now come these treasures, thanks to the Australian Hellenic Museum Association.

Greece’s tribute to us in sending these treasures to Australia could have been made all the more significant if it were not, in my view, for the small-mindedness of the current State Government, which sought to put these treasures into an existing museum on a temporary basis alongside a great many other exhibits. I do not detract from the significance of the exhibition itself - I welcome it and look forward to attending it - but I join with my Greek Australian brother in saying that the New South Wales Government should have reflected on the significance of this world first by establishing a museum and at least holding this exhibition for the first time on Observatory Hill - in the meteorological building, the location where the previous coalition Government, under the stewardship of the former Minister for Land and Water Conservation, sought to hold it, a site appropriate for something as significant as this: the Corinthian columns on Observatory Hill, the Olympic flame burning and a Greek Olympic treasure never assembled anywhere in the world outside Greece on the foreshores of our nation - not at the Powerhouse Museum but enjoying pride of place in a State and city wedded to the significance of that exhibition.

I join with my colleague in congratulating my good friend Paul Nicolaou, chairman of the association, whose stewardship was critical to the bringing of this museum to Australia; Manuel Comino, vice-chairman and a superb worker for the Greek community; and Nick Pappas, arguably one of the most intellectual and articulate of the Greek leaders in Australia today and a fellow Castellorizian, who wrote the book on the history of my heritage island and birthplace. Paul Nicolaou, Manuel Comino and Nick Pappas, as chairman, vice-chairman and secretary of the association, deserve great credit. They were ably supported by Professor Manuel Aroney, adviser, under the leadership of His Eminence the Archbishop of the Greek Orthodox Church, and His Excellency the Ambassador to the Greek community.

In conclusion I again join with colleagues in saying how proud I am as a Greek Australian about this wonderful achievement on the part of Athens. Athens will follow Sydney in hosting the Games as we move into the new millennium; Sydney and Athens leading for the world for another thousand years as we launch into a new millennium of Olympics. What a tremendous honour it is to bring us together, hand in hand, heart over heart, city and city standing shoulder to shoulder, Olympics to Olympics, 2000 and 2004. My congratulations go to
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Athens and the Greek Government. My congratulations go to the Greek Australian community and I give my strong support for, and commend, this bipartisan motion by the Premier and the Leader of the Opposition.

Motion agreed to.

Mr SPEAKER: I table the minutes of the proceedings of the joint sitting held this day to choose a person to hold the place in the Legislative Council rendered vacant by the resignation of the Hon. Patricia Staunton.

Ordered to be printed.

Mr SPEAKER: I table the minutes of the proceedings of the joint sitting held this day to choose a person to hold the place in the Senate rendered vacant by the resignation of Senator Bruce Kenneth Childs.

Ordered to be printed.

Mr COLLINS (Willoughby - Leader of the Opposition) [4.50 p.m.]: This motion is urgent because today, after a 10-week absence, this House has seen the spectacle of the Premier steadfastly refusing to answer any questions about privatisation. This motion gives the House a chance to hear the Premier’s plan for electricity privatisation. This is the Premier who, within two weeks of becoming Premier in 1995, pledged to the Labor Council that his Government would be a bulwark against privatisation. In other words, the Labor Party platform on privatisation, on which it had stood in this House for a century, would continue under Bob Carr, the Premier of New South Wales. He and the Labor Party in this House had obstructed and delayed, as much as it possibly could, the privatisation of the Government Insurance Office and the privatisation of the State Bank of New South Wales. So, Bob Carr was elected on a no-privatisation bill from the Labor Party because that was that party’s traditional position.

Now, somehow, members of the Labor Party are meant to accept that he has done a backflip. They do not trust him. That is why we in Opposition are saying that the Premier should allow, and participate in, this debate on privatisation; that is why he should accept the opportunity that he declined on three occasions already today in this Chamber to spell out all the details of the guarantees on jobs under his privatisation plan - jobs in the electricity industry, jobs in regional New South Wales - and how his plan will guarantee that consumer prices will not go through the roof. The problem is that for a long time the people of this State have not trusted the Premier on a range of issues. Now members of the Labor Party do not trust him. His colleagues in this House want this debate as much as members of the Opposition want it. They want to know what the detail is, because there is a critical Labor Party conference coming up at which this issue will be discussed.

What members of the Opposition want to know, and what we say the Labor members of this House have a right to know, is what their Premier plans. The problem at the moment is that we have a Premier and a Treasurer in this State who cannot add up. They say that the State’s debt is $13.5 billion. In fact, the State’s debt is $13.5 billion plus $15 billion that is owed for public servants’ superannuation. No wonder the Treasurer conceded this week in his caucus briefing note that the State’s budget is in serious trouble. It is in serious trouble because we have as our Treasurer Michael Egan - someone who is not prepared to tell the Parliament and the people of this State the truth about the level of debt. We have a Premier in this State who spends more time working on book reviews than he does on the State’s finances. It is time that he made a decision. If he wants to spend his time on book reviews - and we commend that to him - he should do that full-time and not be a part-time Premier.

The Opposition says that the Premier has to come clean. We do not believe that a Premier and Treasurer would expose themselves in the way they have on this privatisation issue unless the fix was in, unless the Secretary of the Labor Party had told them, "The numbers are there, Bob. It’s all stitched up, the fix is in, the deal is done. Richo said it’s all wrapped up." The Opposition does not believe that any Premier would be so stupid and suicidal as to expose himself in the way that this Premier has done unless the deal was in. If the deal is in, what is the deal? In the past this House has known all the elements of the deal. For example, honourable members will recall debates about the State Bank of New South Wales when, whether the Government at the time liked it or not, every element of the deal was on the table for scrutiny and was referred to the Auditor-General for double-checking. This motion is urgent and must be debated so that members of the Government can know what deal their Premier and Treasurer have done for them.

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Question - That the motion for urgent consideration of the honourable member for Willoughby be proceeded with - put.

The House divided.

Mr Armstrong Mr O’Doherty
Mr Beck Mr O’Farrell
Mr Blackmore Mr D. L. Page
Mr Brogden Mr Peacocke
Mr Chappell Mr Phillips
Mrs Chikarovski Mr Photios
Mr Cochran Mr Richardson
Mr Collins Mr Rixon
Mr Cruickshank Mr Rozzoli
Mr Ellis Mr Schipp
Ms Ficarra Ms Seaton
Mr Fraser Mrs Skinner
Mr Hartcher Mr Souris
Mr Hazzard Mr Tink
Mr Humpherson Mr J. H. Turner
Dr Kernohan Mr R. W. Turner
Mr MacCarthy Mr Windsor
Dr Macdonald Tellers,
Mr Merton Mr Jeffery
Mr Oakeshott Mr Kerr

Ms Allan Mr Martin
Mr Amery Ms Meagher
Mr Anderson Mr Mills
Ms Andrews Mr Moss
Mr Aquilina Mr Neilly
Mrs Beamer Ms Nori
Mr Clough Mr E. T. Page
Mr Crittenden Mr Price
Mr Debus Dr Refshauge
Mr Face Mr Rogan
Mr Gaudry Mr Scully
Mrs Grusovin Mr Shedden
Ms Hall Mr Stewart
Ms Harrison Mr Tripodi
Mr Iemma Mr Watkins
Mr Knight Mr Whelan
Mr Knowles Mr Woods
Mr Langton Mr Yeadon
Mrs Lo Po’
Mr Lynch Tellers,
Mr McBride Mr Beckroge
Mr McManus Mr Thompson

Mr Downy Mr Carr
Mr Glachan Mr Harrison
Mr Kinross Mr Hunter
Mr Schultz Mr Markham
Mr Slack-Smith Mr Nagle
Mr Small Mr Rumble
Mr Smith Mr Sullivan

Question so resolved in the negative.

Dr MACDONALD (Manly) [5.05 p.m.]: I move:

That this House censures the Premier for his failure to uphold both the letter and the spirit of the Charter of Reform signed by him on 17 September 1992, and for the Government’s repeated abuses of the procedures of the Legislative Assembly.

Over the past two years, and particularly in the past 12 months, the Premier has consistently broken his word and torn up the elements the charter of reform and treated this House with disdain. It should come as no surprise that this matter is of particularly grave concern to members on the crossbench, who spent many months during the last Parliament involved in matters relating to the processes and proceedings of the House. Reforms of that parliamentary process were a critical component of the charter of reform and many hours were invested in that document. Negotiations with the coalition Government and the Labor Party Opposition took many months.

The three non-aligned Independents used whatever leverage was available to them to bring about reform both outside the Parliament and within it in an attempt to restore democracy and shift the power from the Executive back to the floor of the Parliament. The Premier has shredded that document in a number of areas, namely the abolition of private members’ time, the use of the gag and the guillotine, the suspension of standing orders and the absence of meaningful estimates committees, about which I shall provide details later. This has exposed the Premier as someone who has treated the Parliament as his own personal property. I see no evidence in his behaviour that he truly has a respect for Parliament; I believe he holds the Parliament in contempt. The Premier should be someone of statesmanship and stature, someone with respect for the benefits of those reforms. On 17 September 1992 Robert John Carr signed the charter of reform, a document that contained some important statements of principle. For instance, on page 1 it states:

The Australian Labor Party, having considered the submission from the Independent members, accepts that, over the 135 years since the advent of responsible Government in New South Wales in 1856, the balance of power between the Parliament and the Executive Government has shifted unduly in favour of the Executive Government.

The present Premier went on to say:

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The Australian Labor Party acknowledges the need to continue changes to the framework of Government in New South Wales to reflect a strong Parliament and to ensure accountability of the Executive Government to the Parliament are necessary. These changes must be achieved in a fashion which is not subsequently able to be removed by a Government not committed to such processes. I suspect that this Government is not committed to process. The Australian Labor Party and the Independent Members agree that fundamental reform, entrenched where appropriate, in the New South Wales Constitution Act, is the appropriate vehicle for these changes.

In the words of Omar Khayyam:

The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all thy Tears wash out a Word of it.

The Premier signed this document five years ago to this day and has now breached both the spirit and content of it. One of the architects of the charter of reform was Tim Moore. He put out a press release on 24 July 1991 in which he said:

" . . . the reforms are aimed at restoring some sanity to the Lower House, traditionally the roughest and toughest in Australia".

"The reforms would result in a more democratic Parliament, with individual Members, particularly Independents, having a greater say on issues of the day or matters of administrative detail."

Mr Moore said for too long successive Governments had used Parliament to rubber-stamp their own legislation. Individual Members of Parliament sometimes felt they were small, insignificant cogs in a giant machine.

Welcome back the sentiments of Tim Moore. He was almost prophetic in those remarks in that he was arguing that the need for the reforms was most telling then and he welcomed them. The very reasons he welcomed them are the very reasons that I bring this matter to the attention of the House. Tim Moore wrote an article in The Parliamentarian, which Mike Steketee reported on in the Sydney Morning Herald as follows:

Moore’s article put that into perspective: "Whilst some political capital is made of alleged legislative paralysis, what is happening in reality appears to be a direct consequence of making improvements to a legislative process in need of reform . . . Eventually, if the reforms are sustained in future Parliaments and function effectively where there is majority government, a longer time scale will probably judge the present period much more kindly than those participants and commentators who believe that the process of governance is being frustrated or delayed by the present circumstances."

Steketee commented further on Moore’s remarks:

The Charter of Reform has resulted in the creation of estimates and legislation committees which have allowed for much greater scrutiny of legislation. Major legislation no longer is introduced into Parliament late at night and rammed through amid mass ignorance of its provisions.

Reforms to Question Time have tipped the scales back somewhat towards the Opposition and the Independents. Parliament is fulfilling more of the purposes for which it is supposed to exist through inquiries into areas such as police administration, the Water Board and hospital privatisation.

I remind the House that the Independents did not seek any benefits for their electorates. They did not seek any benefits as individuals or pursue any individual policy agendas. They sought to implement an accord that would bring about reform. The intention was to scrutinise the Executive Government, to make the role of all members of Parliament - I repeat all members - more meaningful and to open up the legislative process. That did happen in the Fiftieth Parliament. It allowed the Government of the day to govern. All the evidence is that it was able to govern despite the changes. That is why I will be putting to the Premier that there is no need to reverse aspects of the charter of reform in the name of trying to get legislation through. The Parliament is perfectly workable under the reforms that were introduced in the charter of reform. For instance, 82 per cent of legislation was passed in the Fiftieth Parliament and 85 per cent was passed in the Forty-Ninth Parliament, which did not operate under the charter of reform. The percentage was only 3 per cent lower in the Fiftieth Parliament: 438 bills were introduced -

Pursuant to sessional orders business interrupted.

Mr MILLS (Wallsend) [5.15 p.m.]: I wish to bring to the attention of the House a book that was launched at John Hunter Hospital in the Wallsend electorate on Friday, 5 September. Entitled Novocastrian Tales, the book is a celebration of the bicentenary of Newcastle and the Hunter region. The prologue of the book reads:

In 1797, an Awabakal man sits in the shade of Nobbys with his young grandson. The old man is a teller of tales with an eye to the future. He recalls a dream of peace and plenty for his tribe. And, as he tells the tale in the present, he throws a pebble into the sea.

In 1997, a Novocastrian man sits in the shade of Nobbys with his young grandson. The old man is a teller of tales with an eye to the past. He recalls a dream of peace and plenty for his tribe. And, as he tells the tale in the present, he throws a pebble into the sea.

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The man who threw the pebbles and conceived the idea of the book is the editor of the book, a publisher and author based in Newcastle, whose company is Elephant Press. His name is Paul Walsh. He conceived a project to gather tales about Newcastle and the Hunter to celebrate the bicentenary. He gathered people around him prepared to donate time and effort so that the proceeds from the sale of the book could go to an excellent charity in the Newcastle and Hunter region for the bicentenary. That was the germ of his idea, and it took him 18 months to bring it to fruition. He needed the help of many people. A major helper was the Newcastle Permanent Building Society, which put a tremendous amount into the production of the book. All the contributors and the production team donated their time.

I can arrange to provide honourable members with a copy of the book through the Newcastle Permanent Building Society. The only cost will be for the paper and ink; $10 of the $15 price of the book will go to the selected charity. The production team made this a joint project between the Aboriginal community in the Newcastle and Hunter region and the publishers. I particularly thank Paul Walsh and Susan Harvey of Elephant Press; Robert Scrymgour, Paul Scott and Angela McDermott of Newcastle Permanent Building Society; Phil Neat and Mike Hammonett of Neatcorp; Mike Rabbitt from NBN television; Jane Gray, the public affairs officer of the Hunter Area Health Service; Phillip Towney, who is the Aboriginal liaison officer at John Hunter Hospital and Nerida Walker, also from that hospital; David Simmons, originally from the Hunter Regional Tourism Organisation and now General Manager of the Newcastle Regional Chamber of Commerce; Chris Williams from the Newcastle Region Library; and Bruce Tyrrell from Tyrrells Wines.

On behalf of the team and with the support of all my parliamentary colleagues in the Hunter region, I approached the Minister for Health to ask the State Government to supplement the profits from the book so that the chosen charity could go ahead. The chosen charity will provide a residential home in the grounds of John Hunter Hospital for the families of the 700 Aboriginal in-patients from widely scattered parts of the north-west of the State so that they can feel at home close to their relative in hospital. The project is for the benefit of reconciliation and to endorse and enhance family values. We all say that we support family values but we do not often have a chance to put that support into practice. This is an example of how we can take action in this regard.

The Government gave the support and I am delighted that the Minister for Health is in the House to respond to these comments. On behalf of all the people of the Hunter region I am grateful for the support given by the State Government to this project. In particular, on behalf of the Aboriginal people of the Hunter region and parts north and west of it I also thank the Minister. I thank author Paul Walsh for writing the book. I refer honourable members to excellent contributions from Mikey Robins on page 306, from rampaging Roy Slaven on page 266 and from the late Arthur Ailwood, who has a lovely story about a bucket dredge turning turtle when he put the curse on it, "Sink, you bastard, sink." It is a great read: please buy a copy.

Dr REFSHAUGE (Marrickville - Deputy Premier, Minister for Health, and Minister for Aboriginal Affairs) [5.20 p.m.]: The Hunter’s Aboriginal health plan was recently launched by the Government following consultation with the Aboriginal community. One of the 74 strategies identified in the Aboriginal health plan was the need for an accommodation facility for Aboriginal families who accompany a relative to John Hunter Hospital. A team of Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal people developed the important concept of Yallarwah Home. Concepts like that, as important as they are, require funding to get going.

In 1996 the partners of Elephant Press instigated the creation of Novocastrian Tales. They decided that the proceeds from the sale of the book should go to help fund the building of Yallarwah Home. The cost of Yallarwah Home is approximately $400,000. The expectation of the profits from the sales of Novocastrian Tales is in the order of $100,000. Earlier this year the honourable member for Wallsend led a delegation to request Government assistance. We are pleased to be able to guarantee a contribution from the Government of $3 for every $1 raised by the sale of Novocastrian Tales up to a total Government contribution of $300,000, which will ensure the construction of Yallarwah Home.

I am pleased to announce that the Government’s contribution will make sure that this great initiative by the people of the Hunter comes to fruition and that Yallarwah Home is built. At this time when some are trying to divide the nation, it is delightful to be able to support an initiative which is completely in the spirit of reconciliation. The people of the Hunter should be justly proud of their initiative.

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Mr BROGDEN (Pittwater) [5.22 p.m.]: I wish to address the Government’s hypocrisy with respect to the sale of the State Government-owned land at Winnererremy Bay, Mona Vale. In 1996 in a private member’s bill I sought the support of the House to ensure that public land at Winnererremy Bay remain public land and not be sold. The Government has made its commitment clear. Despite tales to the contrary during the 1996 Pittwater by-election, the Government does wish to sell the land at Winnererremy Bay. It is interesting to note the Government’s hypocrisy, in particular the Premier’s hypocrisy with respect to foreshore land. He is happy to allow his Minister, in this case via the Department of Public Works and Services, to sell that land to gain for the public coffers at its own estimate $5 million to $7 million. That estimate was given to me in response to a question on notice in this House. It is all right for the Government to do that at that level, but consider this. A press release of the Premier dated 19 August entitled "State Government’s Vision for Sydney Harbour Foreshores" states:

The Harbour is too precious to be sold off . . .

Further it states:

And the State Government opposes the Commonwealth Government’s decision to sell defence land to the "highest bidder" rather than earmarking it for public use.

What about the public works department? The department, which has owned the land at Winnererremy Bay for some 15 years, wishes to sell the land. The parcel of land at Winnererremy Bay is one of the few remaining publicly owned and publicly accessible pieces of foreshore land in Pittwater. Where is the Government’s consistency of policy? It is all right for the Government to openly and vigorously attack the Federal Government. It is all right for the Premier to indicate in a press release that he will ruthlessly use the force of legislation - the Environmental Planning and Assessment Act 1979, the Heritage Act 1977 and the Coastal Protection Act 1979 - to attack the Federal Government. Further it was asserted in the press release of 19 August that he wrote to the Prime Minister and requested the Prime Minister not to sell that land. He is happy to issue in August 1997 a heavy document outlining the Government’s policy for foreshore land. He is happy to go to the media, to the Australian Financial Review and the Sydney Morning Herald, and on it goes.

But when it comes to foreshore land in his State under the control of his Government and very much under his own control, the Premier is happy to sell that land and throw it out to the highest bidder. He is happy to turn a huge parcel of land enjoyed by the entire community, whether residents of Pittwater, or elsewhere in New South Wales or Australia, and use it to realise a financial gain for the Government. Yesterday the Governor said in his Speech to Parliament:

The State Government will continue to press the Commonwealth to make a commitment to protecting the harbour foreshores.

Further the Governor said:

The programs and proposals I have outlined on behalf of the Government depend for their success on sustaining the sound management of the States’ finances.

Having read the front page report in today’s Sydney Morning Herald of trouble in caucus about the disastrous budgetary position of the State under the control of the Treasurer, it is my concern that the Government will sell that land in order to realise between $5 million and $7 million. But that will be at the expense of the Pittwater foreshore. Let me make a point that I have made before to the House. Once the land is gone, it is gone forever; we cannot get it back. It will be sold for housing, possibly medium-density housing. Once it is gone, it is lost forever to the people of New South Wales.

This is foreshore land. The principle that the Premier has applied to Sydney Harbour foreshore land that is owned by the Federal Government should also apply to Pittwater foreshore land that is owned by the State Government. Any other suggestion is sheer hypocrisy. It is in the Government’s control and purview. It is in the Premier’s control to indicate that he will not allow this land to be sold, that he will change his decision and request that his Government, and his Minister in particular, take this land off the real estate list, off the auction list, off the fire sale list. He should give a commitment to the people of Pittwater and the people of New South Wales that this land will remain in public hands forever.

Mr PRICE (Waratah) [5.27 p.m.]: I wish to pass on some accolades to the elected members and to the officers of this Parliament who were involved in the build-up to the successful passage of the Parliamentary Precincts Act. Honourable members might recall that when the bill was discussed the second reading speech was concluded with some
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haste. Likewise in the Legislative Council the matter was dealt with rather speedily. The opportunity to thank the people who had been involved for at least eight years or longer was not available. I would like to correct that omission tonight by acknowledging the importance of the culmination of many years of research and investigation by those I have alluded to. It was the actions of Speaker Kelly and President Johnson and the inquiry by the Hon. Rodney Cavalier into the privileges of the Parliament that commenced the investigation.

The Act is now in place and we have a definition of the boundaries of this House. We also have on record the full agreement of all parties involved. Through the Standing Orders and Procedure Committee both major parties and the Independent members were kept fully advised of the progress of the matter. The co-operation of the present ministry and their various departments and trusts certainly must be recognised. I would like to pay particular tribute to Mr Colin Robinson, the Supervising Legal Officer from the Land Titles Office, who assisted me greatly during my research into the legislation. He was particularly valuable in researching items for the second reading speech. He is a person of great integrity and great devotion to duty. I would certainly like to commend him for his assistance and diligence in the preparation of the legislation.

I would also like to thank Mr David Mulcahy, the Director of the Land Titles Office, and Mr Grahame Wallis, the Acting Principal Surveyor of the Land Titles Office, for their assistance with all the necessary bits and pieces that brought this project to finality and provided the Parliament with a deed. Without their assistance this would not have occurred. The co-operation and assistance of Parliamentary Counsel, the Chief Executive Officer of Sydney Hospital, the Director of the Royal Botanic Gardens and Domain Trust, and the State Librarian are acknowledged. They all played an important role. The Domain Trust had some real concerns about the strip of land behind the Parliament adjacent to the Domain and took some convincing on this issue. The concerns were real. The Parliament, through the Minister, was able to satisfy those concerns in such a way that everyone was happy with the final result.

In the present parliamentary group I would particularly like to mention the Speaker, Mr John Murray; the President of the Legislative Council, the Hon. Max Willis; the Minister for Land and Water Conservation, Mr Yeadon; the Minister for Police, Mr Whelan; the Clerk of the Legislative Assembly, Mr Russell Grove; and the Clerk of the Legislative Council, Mr John Evans. I would also like to thank the Deputy Clerk, Mr Mark Swinson, who assisted me and whose diligence certainly helped and guided me in the preparation of the private member’s bill. His advice was well founded and of great assistance to everyone involved. We now have an Act that defines the parliamentary precincts, assists the Presiding Officers in their duties, and certainly makes their lives much easier in relation to the powers they exercise through the rights and privileges of their offices. It is a great pity that the legislation was rushed through the House, but I hope that in some way this contribution corrects the defects of omission and that the efforts of the people involved are now suitably recorded for posterity in Hansard.

Mr CHAPPELL (Northern Tablelands) [5.32 p.m.]: In early August I received information indicating that yet more Government cutbacks were in store for my electorate, this time in the Department of Mineral Resources, which will lose some jobs and have other jobs transferred to Sydney and other regions in the State. Once again this represents a betrayal of country New South Wales by a Government that takes every opportunity it can to talk up its support for the regions and every opportunity it can to cut the heart out of it, both in services and jobs. I have just received a reply to my letter of 13 August from the Minister for Mineral Resources confirming the loss of these jobs and a reduction in minerals exploration in the New England and the north-west, and, indeed, on the north coast. The reply from the Minister said:

. . . exploration and mining in New England and the North Coast, although active, have for some time been far less than in other regions such as those around Orange, Cobar and Broken Hill.

That certainly is true because a large proportion of the funds from the Discovery 2000 program committed by the previous Government has been spent in other places in the State. I am not complaining about that because expenditure of those funds has led to considerable development in the minerals industry. I am simply asking that the New England and the north coast receive adequate funds to enable the preliminary investigative work that will lead to the sorts of developments we have seen in other areas. It is recognised that New England, in particular, is an area of high mineralisation and has potential for continued activity; we simply need to tap into it. The letter from the Minister continued:

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The actual situation in Armidale Office is that two positions are being deleted as a result of changing priorities, one position is being transferred to Orange, one position is moving into the office from Lismore, and one full-time position is to become part-time.

The Department is also decreasing the number of positions in Sydney.

That may well be, but the number of positions in the Armidale office is certainly decreasing. The best advice I can get in terms of the actual result - and I am not focusing only on Armidale but across the region - is that the overall effect will be the loss of an administrative assistant from Lismore, the transfer of a mines inspector from Inverell to Orange, the transfer of a mines inspector from Inverell to Armidale, the transfer of an environmental officer from Armidale to Orange and the deletion of 2˝ positions in Armidale with two of the displaced staff offered transfers to Sydney. The relativities in the cost of setting up a home in metropolitan areas versus country areas make it almost impossible for a number of country staff to transfer to Sydney. The net effect is that long-serving and highly productive officers not only of this department but of other departments are forced to quit their jobs, move out of the department and move out of their profession because they cannot afford to move themselves and their families to the metropolitan area.

The situation in my electorate of Northern Tablelands is unacceptable. Yet again a government agency is cutting back its staff and resources and thus the potential for economic growth in the area. The Armidale office is systematically starved of work to justify the downsizing decision. That is, a lot of work that historically has been done and potentially can continue to be done from the Armidale office, such as exploratory work and servicing of other government agencies by way of planning and other responsibilities, is done from Sydney. If this Government is serious in its oft-stated support for regional New South Wales, it ought to ensure that all available work that can be done in the regions is done in the regions. The Government is walking away from that responsibility and, consequently, transferring these jobs out of the regions into other places or ensuring that the jobs are closed down. This downsizing represents a further betrayal and a continued desertion of country New South Wales. It inflicts such demoralisation on professional and other support staff that it will probably never be able to adequately carry out its responsibilities in developing and opening up the State for the economic activity we so sorely need.

Mr MARTIN (Port Stephens - Minister for Mineral Resources, and Minister for Fisheries) [5.37 p.m.]: Exploration and mining activity changes from region to region on the basis of commercial decisions made by mining companies. The department responds to change in demands on its services by moving staff into areas of greatest need. In recent years exploration and mining in New England and on the north coast have remained at a relatively low level, with coastal mining for heavy minerals decreasing. At the same time, exploration and mining activity in the Orange area has increased exponentially. Indeed, in recent years staff numbers have increased from five to 19. Accordingly, departmental resources have had to be reallocated to areas of greatest demand. As a result, a number of changes have been made at the Armidale office. It must be emphasised that changes to the Armidale office have not involved the transfer of positions to Sydney. Indeed, staff numbers have been reduced in the Sydney office. However, I know that one staff member in Armidale whose position has been deleted may well accept an expected vacancy in Sydney.

It is mischievous to say that Armidale jobs have been transferred to Sydney to bolster the Sydney office at the expense of the Armidale office of the Department of Mineral Resources. It is interesting to note that the honourable member for Northern Tablelands has undergone a dramatic change since he was the Minister. Does he not remember what happened to positions in the Department of Main Roads in his electorate when it was decimated, and what happened to the Armidale Youth and Community Services office? He should not forget all the courthouses he closed when he was a Minister, nor should he forget the train service he did not support. It is a pity he supported those cutbacks when he was in government. I have spoken to staff at the Department of Mineral Resources office in Armidale. Transfers and reduction of staff often are not welcome, but in this case they are necessary to the overall planning and administration of the Department of Mineral Resources.

Mr LYNCH (Liverpool) [5.39 p.m.]: I draw the attention of honourable members and relevant Ministers to a serious situation involving the Casa Paloma caravan park which is located in my electorate. Mr and Mrs Barry, who are residents of the caravan park, attended my office and told me that they were being exposed to raw sewage. Mr and Mrs Barry have lived in the caravan park for three
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years. I am advised that the population of the park expanded significantly between June 1995 and September 1996 because another caravan park, Kywong, closed. A serious problem then developed on the site, which is said to involve untreated sewage being irrigated onto property and flowing through a drain in the park. Some 256 sites have been developed at the caravan park. However, residents tell me that only 195 have received development consent. The proprietors of the park are apparently licensed by the Environment Protection Authority to operate a sewage treatment facility. The facility has failed. The effluent is taken to the treatment facility, transferred to a lake and irrigated onto a nearby field. In June my constituents sought legal advice from South West Tenants Advice, which wrote to the proprietors of the caravan park as follows:

Mr and Mrs Barry have also informed me of an urgent repair necessary to the drainage system. Untreated sullage is draining into the property at the rear of the Barry’s site creating an obnoxious stench. Mr and Mrs Barry are not able to open the windows of their dwelling due to the smell and therefore have not had the full use of their home.

The Barrys are not the only people concerned about this matter. I have seen a petition signed by 34 residents of the park requesting that the treatment works be upgraded. Residents of the park have told me that when the toilet is flushed the matter remains in the bowl for a number of hours before it drains away. One view is that the facility is antiquated; another is that it is overloaded because of the extra people now living in the park. As the letter from which I quoted indicated, much of the discharge from the treatment works flows onto a paddock adjacent to the caravan park; from that paddock it flows into the caravan park and affects the residents. This gives rise to some pretty obvious aesthetic consequences - there is an offensive odour from the park and there is a health risk.

Almost inevitably, Mr and Mrs Barry have been diagnosed with hepatitis A, which they blame on their exposure to untreated sewage. It is difficult to assign absolute scientific certainty to the cause of hepatitis, but Mr and Mrs Barry have never been diagnosed with hepatitis in the past. Their diagnosis was made recently. Any health authority will confirm that contaminated water, food and sewage are obvious sources of infection of hepatitis A. Their doctor has confirmed that sewage is a possible source of their infection. The situation is now even more serious: Mrs Barry is seeking specialist advice in relation to the effect on her liver. Their 28-year-old daughter, Catherine Asiminaris, has recently been diagnosed with hepatitis. In the past two months she has been at her home or her parent’s home and nowhere else, so the source of contamination is pretty obvious. Catherine’s two young children are awaiting the results of their tests.

My constituents have reported this matter to a number of authorities, including the EPA, the Department of Health and the Department of Local Government. However, in their view not a great deal has been achieved. Their attempts to seek recourse have been met by a series of threats from the proprietors, which is a matter of concern. There has been a recent change. As I understand it, the treated material is no longer being put on the field but into a gully, which runs into Kemps Creek which runs into the Hawkesbury River. The proposed alternative is to put the material onto part of the nearby lawn cemetery. The problem is that the Sydney water channel runs between the caravan park and the lawn cemetery. The water channel runs into the Prospect reservoir. [Time expired.]

Ms ALLAN (Blacktown - Minister for the Environment) [5.44 p.m.]: I thank the honourable member for Liverpool for drawing this matter to my attention. The Carr Government is firmly committed to the protection of the environment, and nowhere is this more important than in western Sydney. The Environment Protection Authority has advised me that the Casa Paloma caravan park, Leppington, holds a pollution control approval and a licence to irrigate sewage effluent after treatment by an on-site package treatment plant onto an adjacent field. Pollution of the sort described by the honourable member for Liverpool is totally unacceptable. The EPA has acted on claims of inadequate treatment and problems with the irrigation at the caravan park that are believed to have resulted in unpleasant odours. The EPA has issued two penalty infringement notices with fines totalling $1,000.

The EPA has negotiated a pollution reduction program with the operator of the caravan park. This program, which required the production of plans and a firm time frame for the piping of treated waste water to an alternative site further from the caravan park, was due to be completed by 8 September. The alternative site, a lawn cemetery, has ample open space suitable for the beneficial reuse of effluent. I am advised that the requirement to produce plans has not been complied with. The EPA is now considering taking further legal action in relation to this breach. We will not tolerate the flouting of the State’s environmental laws. I refer to the health concerns described by the honourable member for Liverpool. The EPA has alerted New South Wales Health to the genuine concerns of the residents of the caravan park, and we are awaiting its advice. I assure the honourable member that I take the matter
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that he has raised very seriously and the EPA will continue to pursue it vigorously.

Mr SCHULTZ (Burrinjuck) [5.46 p.m.]: I raise a matter that is of serious concern to this State. Some time ago I received a copy of the Fairfield Advance, a suburban newspaper, which carried the headline "Heroin High - Kids hooked by free deals". I was extremely concerned by what I read in the article, but never in my wildest dreams did it occur to me that rural New South Wales would face that sort of situation. On 5 September a school principal from Tumut sent a letter to his staff informing them about the availability of heroin and marijuana to schoolchildren. He revealed that a 12-year-old child had access to the Tumut needle exchange program - something that has neither been denied nor corroborated by the Tumut health service.

I have made a number of statements in local newspapers, on the radio and on the television about a number of drug deals that I have seen since it was revealed that free heroin is available to children in the metropolitan area. One incident that I saw was reported to the police, and it is currently under investigation. My wife and I were leaving a public function and we saw a drug deal go down. Only two weeks ago I was informed by a reliable person that speed is freely available in Cootamundra. This is distressing. A number of people believe that heroin is not a great problem in rural New South Wales; unfortunately, it is a reality.

It is frightening that schoolchildren are being subjected to these sorts of illegal substances. The people who administer the needle exchange program have said that there is no age restriction on the program - people who want a fit pack can get one and inject themselves. Our children are availing themselves of that program. Where is the duty of care from the Department of Health? It should be looking after under-age children in the interests of the community as a whole and their parents in particular. The drug problem in this State is frightening in the extreme. Young children are being subjected to free heroin. In the area that I represent heroin is available at $7 a fix.

Following the distressing revelation by the school principal to which I referred earlier a story appeared in the Wagga Wagga Daily Advertiser about the fact that heroin and disposable needles were available in that area for the price of a video. That is one of the most abhorrent revelations I have witnessed in the 10 years that I have been a member of Parliament. I call on the Minister for Health and the Minister for Police to do something constructive about addressing the issue of illegal substances such as heroin, speed and amphetamines in our communities. It is time that we stopped this nonsense of harm minimisation. We should have the political will to address seriously the availability of drugs in our community.

I draw the line and get very angry when I see young children, some as young as eight years of age - a matter referred to me by one of my parliamentary colleagues - who have access to illegal substances such as this. This Parliament, this Government and parliaments right across the country must take positive steps towards stopping the flow of illegal substances to our children - our lifeblood and our future generations. Our children should not be subjected to these mind-destroying and body-destroying drugs. I ask the Minister for Local Government to convey my concerns to the Minister for Health and the Minister for Police so that we can start addressing this serious issue.

Mr WATKINS (Gladesville) [5.51 p.m.]: I draw attention to the fine work of the Ryde State Emergency Service and the many volunteers who work with that organisation. The Ryde SES is an exceptionally well-organised, efficient and professional unit. The SES has 235 volunteer units throughout New South Wales with over 10,000 active volunteers and another 10,000 reserve members who can be called upon to assist in emergencies. Its major responsibilities are for flood and storm operations, but in local communities it provides a range of other support services. The SES also undertakes a valuable public education and community awareness program which includes a wide range of high-quality publications.

The Ryde State Emergency Service unit is led by controller Graeme Craig who happens to have deservedly received the Ryde City Young Citizen of the Year Award in last year’s Australia Day awards. Graeme is assisted by deputy controllers Alan Parkin and Tony Finniss, operations officer Liz Thomas, rescue officer Ruth Lehmann and other officers and team leaders Barry McDonald, Patricia Parkin, Bernard Carran, Mark Constable, Darren O’Dea and Susan Craig. Those volunteers, who willingly give of their time and effort to their community, have developed a wide range of skills and they work in efficient teams. They comprise a truly professional group of people who deserve thanks for their work and recognition for their efforts.

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The past year has been a successful one for the Ryde unit. Whilst Ryde was relatively tempest and bushfire free in that time it was still a busy time for the unit. There were 42 call-out operations in the past 12 months involving 235 jobs and almost 5,000 man hours. There were also 25 community service events involving 203 crews and over 2,000 man-hours. It should also be made public that almost 9,000 man-hours in training were undertaken by the crews. The importance of training in the SES has ensured that it is a highly capable and professional organisation that can take its place alongside the full-time emergency services. The importance of that training and the regard in which the service is held were reflected in the recent tragic Thredbo disaster. The SES played a critical role in the rescue operations, applying its skills with confidence and certainty. Members of the Ryde SES took part in that rescue, willingly giving of their time and efforts for people in need.

The Ryde SES unit has, in the past year, also taken important developmental steps, especially in the way it recruits members. An interview and induction procedure enables the selection of high-quality recruits. The performance and professionalism of the unit have been recognised by the Police Service, which has called on the unit to perform a number of local operations. Ryde SES has assisted in the lighting of intersections and at accidents and was involved in providing support at the large gas explosion at North Ryde where, tragically, a local man was killed and a large amount of damage was done to property. Those events are a credit to the hard work, the dedication and professionalism of members of the Ryde State Emergency Service.

This year has also seen the final phase in the modernisation and diversification of the unit’s vehicle fleet. The purchase of a Ford Courier ute by Ryde council and a Toyota Landcruiser troop carrier, through the assistance of a grant from the State Government, complemented the existing fleet, which gives the unit a greater ability to respond quickly and efficiently to calls for assistance. Aside from Graeme Craig, the controller, special mention must be made of Bernard Carran, staff officer, training, who this year received a national medal for his service. He also received a 15-year long service award and his colleague Gary McDonald was awarded a 10-year long service award. But I am sure that those three men would acknowledge that they are very much part of a team. That dedication to service and that teamwork make the Ryde SES unit such a successful and well-respected branch of the service. I am pleased to take this opportunity to make public in the Parliament the great work of the whole SES service in New South Wales and the outstanding contribution of the Ryde unit. The members of that unit should be proud of their efforts. I am happy to bring their great work to the attention of this House.

Mr RIXON (Lismore) [5.56 p.m.]: As a member of the New South Wales Parliament representing Nimbin I have intimate contact with drug addicts, their families, their friends and the victims of drug-related crime. I read with interest a report in the July 1997 edition of the Australian Women’s Weekly about Joanne Frare from a village near Lismore. It was claimed that she was cured of a heroin addiction at a hospital in Tel Aviv, Israel, while she was in the care of Dr Andre Waismann. When I learned that Dr Waismann was visiting Lismore I went to meet him. The meeting, which was not well advertised, attracted over 300 people. I assessed, from local knowledge, that 50 per cent of those people were addicts and the other 50 per cent were parents and concerned people.

I listened to the contribution of Dr Waismann and I had a long talk with Joanne Frare. She had been addicted to heroin for three years and had lived with a continuous craving. In her words, she went to sleep in the hospital and woke up with no craving. She would take 25 milligrams of Naltrexone each day for a year. So-called former friends have offered her heroin but she is not interested. Joanne believes that she is cured of her heroin addiction. On Sunday, 17 August 1997, I visited Dr Waismann’s clinic in Tel Aviv, Israel. Waiting for me at the clinic were five cured addicts and five carers who came from Kyogle, Byron Bay, Lennox Head, Perth and Melbourne. I had previously met the three who came from the north coast of New South Wales but I had not met the others. It was wonderful to see the differences in their appearances and attitudes and I had a long talk with each of them.

The story of one person, who had been addicted for 20 years, was typical. This was the first time in 20 years that he had no craving for heroin. He had been detoxified in the past but some months after he still had a craving and eventually became a user again. All the patients said that they now had no craving and that they felt they had been given a second chance at life. Their carers were overjoyed. Dr Waismann took me by car to the American Medical Centre, the private hospital where the treatment was being administered. The three patients who were receiving treatment - normally four patients receive treatment - were asleep. The usual procedure is for patients to have their medical
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records forwarded to Dr Waismann prior to the visit. They check into the clinic at 8.00 a.m. for tests and assessments and are there until 4.00 p.m. when treatment commences. Patients are put to sleep for six hours. I was told that a light sedation is used in order for staff to be able to closely monitor patients.

The patients I saw were completely peaceful in appearance. I was told that the only real patient reaction occurs when various breathing and other tubes are being inserted. After the six-hour period the patients wake and are closely monitored until they are discharged at 10.00 a.m. the next day. Three staff members, two specialist nursing sisters and a specialist anaesthetist, are continually on duty in the intensive care ward. Specialist doctors are available if needed. This specialised treatment gave heroin addicts a real second chance. When I asked the five patients what percentage of addicts they believed would want to undertake the cure, they agreed that it would be more than 95 per cent. When I asked them how many would stay off heroin, the answer was that most would, but that far fewer would stay off on any other detoxification program.

The Dr Waismann program completes the rapid detoxification in 24 hours, and then the patient takes 25 milligrams of naltrexone each day for a year. The patient has no craving and can make decisions about life without a continual craving. Dr Andre Waismann has said he is willing to train, free of charge, in Tel Aviv, a team supplied by State or Federal governments and to supervise the setting up of trials in Australia. He is not accredited to practise in Australia and does not want to be involved in any sort of franchising arrangements.

I am not a doctor, so I can only report as a layman on what I have seen. But it would be a tragedy for Australia if old-fashioned conservatism, the professional jealousies of a few doctors or the misguided job preservation instincts of people currently working in the industry prevented full trial of the procedure in Australia. Dr Waismann is concerned that the trials be strictly controlled, as some well-intentioned people have caused problems for patients overseas.

The cost of an intensive care bed for 24 hours, together with follow-up medication, may be far less than the cost of the damage currently being caused to addicts, and their families, and by drug-related crime. Today I presented to Parliament a petition signed by 7334 people who ask that the State and Federal governments support the sending of suitably qualified professional people to Israel to assess and learn the procedure and then to trial the procedure in Australia. Even as I speak, Dr Currie from Westmead Hospital is in Israel learning about the procedure. I ask this Parliament to support my constituents’ requests for trials in New South Wales.

Ms HALL (Swansea) [6.01 p.m.]: The central coast is one of the fastest growing areas in this State. I am particularly interested in the part of the central coast that falls within the Swansea electorate. As all honourable members know, there is a lag time between the growth in population that takes place and proper infrastructure facilities being provided in an area. The Northern Perspectives, a publication of the Information Training Research Action Centre, an organisation that is soon to be de-funded by the Federal Government, identified a number of areas of concern and a number of issues that Wyong Shire Council needs to address.

One matter that has been affected by this rapid growth is the provision of educational facilities in the Wyong shire. Back in November 1996 I informed this House that I presented to the Minister for Education and Training a submission, which I strongly supported, to have a new high school constructed at Lake Munmorah. I felt that it was the highest educational infrastructure need within the Swansea electorate. Following projections of a large increase in the number of students in the area, which would mean there would be in excess of 2,000 students at Northlakes High School by the year 2000, the Minister asked departmental planners in the properties directorate to have a look at the matter. An independent study which was carried out to examine whether a new high school should be constructed at Lake Munmorah showed that a high school was not needed. However, after the Minister investigated the matter a little further, it was agreed that a new high school was needed and would be built in that area of the central coast.

On 26 May this year I announced that two new high schools would be built in that area, one at Lake Munmorah and the other at Warnervale. This was a great win for the area, and it was also a testimony to the hard work and dedication of the residents of the area. I congratulated all the people who had been involved with the commitment that led to the development and approval of those high schools. However, unfortunately, since that time a lot of rumour-mongering and fear have been created within the community, and I cannot understand why. The Government has made a commitment that two new high schools will be built in the area, and planning for those high schools has commenced.

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Two sites have been considered for construction of the high school at Lake Munmorah, one adjoining the current primary school and the other on the opposite side of the highway. It is very important that the proper studies be undertaken before a decision is made on which site will be suitable for the high school. A dilemma has been experienced at Blue Haven, which I have also mentioned in this House, because Wyong council has prevented the construction of the primary school from going ahead in that area as the proper studies were not completed in the first place. This time the Government needs to ensure that the proper flora and fauna studies are completed, then the right block of land can be purchased and the high-quality high school that is needed for the Lake Munmorah area can be constructed.

I do not like to be critical of anyone, but the previous Mayor of Wyong, Councillor Doug Eaton, stated that unless a development application was submitted to the council before the end of this year no new high school would be built at Lake Munmorah by the year 2000. I think that is pretty disgusting. It is bringing politics and fear into a community in which a high school is really needed. People should put aside politics and examine what the community needs. Our community needs a high school. The way to achieve that is by all people working together. I urge Councillor Eaton, Councillor Best and the rumourmongers not to create problems by saying the new high school, will not be built. I urge them not to be destructive, and I ask them to work with me to ensure that our community, our students, our children and our families benefit from the new high school.

Mr KINROSS (Gordon) [6.06 p.m.]: Tonight I raise a matter that has concerned me ever since I became a member of this House, and even when the Liberal-National Party was in government, that is, the level of traffic on the Pacific Highway. Only recently I notified the Minister for Roads about my concern. I am not sure whether he will be coming into the Chamber to answer my questions, but if he does not do so I ask the Minister for Local Government to pass on to him some very serious questions that need to be answered. The most important question I want answered is whether the funding for that highway in my electorate has been reduced, because we no longer keep any figures on traffic levels in and around the Pacific Highway in the Gordon electorate. Specifically, I refer to a table that itemises from 1981, but only up until 1993, statistics for a range of areas and roads right across New South Wales. In this case the table that I have, which is limited to the metropolitan area, shows statistics for the Pacific Highway.

The director of engineering services in Ku-ring-gai Municipal Council, Mr Bruce Tucker, has informed me that no figures are available since 1993 for traffic levels on the Pacific Highway. I find that statement, if correct, to be incredible. I ask the Minister to inform the House whether statistics are in fact kept on certain locations. The relevance of that is that currently road trains use the Pacific Highway non-stop, 24 hours a day; the conditions are substantially deteriorating; and traffic is now building up not only in peak hours but peak-hour conditions are experienced for close to 12 hours of the day, if not more, starting from about 5.00 a.m. or 5.30 a.m. right through until 7.30 p.m. or 8.00 p.m. It is not as if the Pacific Highway affects only my electorate, as of course it does, but it affects all commuters. Indeed, at times when I have met and talked with constituents in and around railway stations in my electorate, particularly Gordon railway station, I have been surprised to learn of the number of people from The Entrance, and indeed the central coast, who drive along the Pacific Highway and then park in and around the Gordon commuter car park, which was built by the Liberal Government in 1994.

This is an important and serious issue. Though I joined with my colleague the honourable member for Gladesville in approving of the removal of the B2-B3 option, there are no longer any planning proposals for the Pacific Highway in my electorate. The Pymble Bridge project was abandoned by the Labor Government despite the coalition targeting $5.2 million for its upgrade and the realignment of the road. The abandonment of the B2-B3 option has resulted in increased concentration of traffic on the Pacific Highway, with 14 to 15 hours of traffic at levels similar to those experienced in peak hour. Labor members who traverse that area will be aware of the bank-up that occurs.

A link should be constructed similar to the former coalition’s proposal to take traffic from the F3 to the M2. At one stage a tunnel was proposed underneath Pennant Hills Road, and certainly further options need to be explored in that regard. The traffic congestion in this area is as serious as that experienced by my colleague the honourable member for Lane Cove with the flow-on traffic through minor roads in Lane Cove caused by cars exiting the M2. One option to alleviate the problem would be to create a link between the M2 and the F3. Though the B2-B3 option has been abandoned, we have yet to see legislation enshrining that principle. Nevertheless, major issues dealing with
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road trains and safety need to be addressed urgently by the Government.

Private members’ statements noted.

[Mr Acting-Speaker (Mr Clough) left the chair at 6.12 p.m. The House resumed at 7.30 p.m.]

Mr SPEAKER: I acknowledge the presence in the gallery of my sister-in-law, Linda Merino, who is visiting from Washington.

Motion, by leave, by Mr Whelan agreed to:

That standing and sessional orders be suspended at this sitting to allow the following items of business to be dealt with forthwith -

(1) The moving and seconding of an Address-in-Reply to the Governor’s Opening Speech.

(2) The conclusion of debate on the motion of censure of the Premier.

(3) The moving of motions for messages to the Legislative Council and motions to restore to the business paper the following bills that had lapsed because of prorogation to the stage they reached in the previous session but had lapsed because of prorogation -

Historic Houses Amendment Bill
Health Professionals (Special Events Exemption) Bill
Health Legislation Amendment Bill
Costs in Criminal Cases Amendment Bill
Crimes Legislation Amendment Bill
Crimes Legislation Amendment (Procedure) Bill
Public Trustee Corporation Bill; and
Snowy Hydro Corporatisation Bill.

(4) The introduction of Government bills notices of which were given this day for tomorrow.

Mrs BEAMER (Badgerys Creek) [7.34 p.m.]: I move:

That the following Address-in-Reply to the Speech which His Excellency the Governor has addressed to both Houses of Parliament on opening this session of the Parliament of New South Wales be now adopted by this House.

To His Excellency the Honourable Gordon Samuels, Companion of the Order of Australia, Governor of the State of New South Wales in the Commonwealth of Australia.

May it Please Your Excellency -

We, the members of the Legislative Assembly of the State of New South Wales, in Parliament assembled, desire to express our thanks for Your Excellency’s speech, and to express our loyalty to the Sovereign.

We assure Your Excellency that our earnest consideration will be given to the measures to be submitted to us, that we will faithfully carry out the important duties entrusted to us by the people of New South Wales, and that the necessary provision for the public services will be made in due course.

We join Your Excellency in the hope that our labours may be so directed as to advance the best interests of all sections of the community.

In His Excellency’s Speech, delivered yesterday in the other place, he outlined the objectives of this Government, which sees these core objectives as its responsibility to the people of New South Wales. The State’s health, education and transport systems will be improved by the Government within the framework of protecting the environment, security of our State, social justice and financial responsibility. The Government has undertaken a program which will continue the growth in jobs created and investment strategies in the State.

The Government’s unprecedented increase in health care funding over three consecutive budgets has led to considerable change in Sydney’s west. In the May budget the Treasurer, the Hon. Michael Egan, announced a $59 million women’s and children’s health unit to replace the old and dilapidated maternity unit at Nepean Hospital. I am pleased to inform the House that work has commenced at Nepean Hospital and demolition of the old building will begin before Christmas. The new building will be home to antenatal and post-natal wards, a delivery suite and a birthing unit. The neonatal intensive care ward will be located in the four-storey construction and will include children and adolescent wards, an outpatient area and a gynaecology unit, giving the people of western Sydney a centre of excellence.

Earlier this year I had the pleasure of attending with the Premier and the Minister for Health the opening of the upgrading of Liverpool Hospital. These facilities are part of the Government’s strategy to strengthen health services in western and south-western Sydney so that they meet the needs of our fastest growing region. Health care is of vital importance to this State. The Government has provided record levels of funding - $1 billion a year more than the previous Government. This Government has continually shown its commitment to the people of New South Wales to provide better hospitals and improved health care.

Shortly the St Clair community health centre will be officially opened. The centre will provide
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speech therapy and counselling services, as well as new baby referrals and a baby health clinic. It will also provide a day-care centre for the people of St Clair. The health centre will be a shining example of the Government’s commitment to provide quality resources to areas in need. It is centrally located near a school, a shopping centre and a neighbourhood centre and will provide these much-needed services in the heart of the community.

The Minister for Health, the Hon. Andrew Refshauge, visited the centre with me just after it had begun to operate. Together we saw many people with disabilities who would otherwise be confined to their homes. They described the centre as an accessible place that will greatly enrich their lives. The Minister and I took great pleasure in seeing the joy that it brought to the people we met. They gave it a big thumbs up. These are a few examples of the many actions that demonstrate the Government’s commitment to providing health services.

His Excellency also referred to the Government’s commitment to "uphold and strengthen the public education system of New South Wales. It repudiates any attempt to downgrade or denigrate public education." Western and south-western Sydney have many new estates which demand from the Government construction of new schools. Last month I attended the opening of a beautiful school at Glenmore Park by the Minister for Education and Training. It comes complete with the modern facilities we all expect of a school that only recently has been built. Children have access to computer facilities, well-designed buildings, covered outdoor learning areas and a bright and cheerful learning environment. I was delighted when the children told me how proud and fortunate they were to have such a lovely school.

Not all schools have the luxury of being constructed in 1996. Warragamba Public School was in a very unsafe state in 1995 and the principal called in a building inspector to look at his old classrooms. These classrooms were condemned by the inspector, who said quite simply that they were unfit to be occupied. A previous excursion into the roof had caused the collapse of a ceiling, with children in the classroom next door sent scurrying for cover. The principal had to hire a local hall for eight weeks to house four classes. On Monday this week the principal took great pleasure in showing me the construction of modern classrooms. He conveyed to me the happiness of the school community about the work being done. However, it is not school buildings that make a school; it is teaching, resourcing and learning strategies that give our students the education they deserve.

Much has been said recently about literacy and literacy strategies. In the May budget the Government recognised the need for a literacy strategy and set aside $60 million to support literacy initiatives alone. These funds will provide for more support for students experiencing literacy difficulties. The Government’s task of improving literacy levels, however, has been made more difficult because of continuing attacks on public education by the Federal Government. At a time when there is a genuine concern and desire to improve literacy standards the Federal Government has made significant cuts to education, including a 9 per cent cut to literacy spending. New South Wales could have more than doubled its programs had the Federal Government not made the cuts to literacy programs and funding. All governments and education authorities were working co-operatively to use the survey results to develop a national co-ordinated strategy to improve literacy standards. The Victorian Minister for Education, the Hon. Phil Gude, has also been critical of the Federal Government’s cutbacks. They have cost Victoria $8 million in specific purpose payments for literacy. On 15 September 1997 he said:

What we don’t need is a Federal Minister who does not run one school taking away our funding and then denigrating the excellent work of teachers, parents and school communities in trying to educate our children for the challenges of the new millennium.

That was said by a Liberal Minister in Victoria. The remarks made by Federal Minister Dr David Kemp have been given much publicity and do not need repeating here. Suffice it to say that his remarks would rank amongst the most outrageous and misleading comments made by any education Minister in recent memory. All Dr Kemp has done is undermine public confidence in schools and the public education system, which the New South Wales Government is committed to protecting. In a press release dated 15 September the President of the Federation of Parents and Citizens Associations of New South Wales said:

Dr Kemp, in a breathtaking display of statistical fudgery and political opportunism, has turned his back on the quality findings of his survey in preference to the voice of a small team of advisers who reconfigured and reinterpreted the data, obviously toadying to his party’s agenda to destroy public school systems throughout the nation.

I can only endorse the joint statement by education Ministers from New South Wales, Queensland and Tasmania, which stated:

We all share Dr Kemp’s desire to raise literacy standards in Australia to the highest possible level. What we now question after this latest tactic is his ability to play a productive and co-operative role in harnessing and co-ordinating that desire.

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The Government is also committed to ensuring that our schools provide our children with safe and pleasant learning environments. The Government is committed to spending more than $20 million on student welfare and antiviolence programs. This includes funding for home-school liaison, new specialist high schools to support students with behavioural problems, and programs to combat violence in our schools.

The Federal Government has made unprecedented attacks on funding allocations for New South Wales. His Excellency the Governor reported to the other place on these Federal cuts to the State. New South Wales has been deprived of revenue not just by direct cuts but also by decisions taken by Commonwealth bodies. The people of New South Wales should be made aware of the extent to which the Federal Government is asking the residents of this State to subsidise other States and the Federal Government’s debt. The smaller States receive $1.3 billion through the grants system alone from New South Wales - New South Wales taxes going to other States. General purpose grants to New South Wales will be reduced by $529 million in real terms in the three years 1996-97 to 1998-99.

Some of the recent decisions by the Federal Government have been nothing short of breathtaking. The end to cross-border leasing arrangements has cost the New South Wales budget $200 million. It is very hard to understand why the Federal Government would remove these arrangements in the public sector. It was not costing any Australian taxpayer one cent. If American lawmakers do not see fit to change their arrangements, why should the Federal Government disadvantage the residents of New South Wales and Victoria to the tune of at least $200 million a year? In Medicare payments to the State, $40 million has been lost; and $31 million has been lost from public housing. The cuts in these two areas have hit the people of New South Wales very hard. Every member would be aware of how much demand there is for public housing.

Soon after becoming the member for Badgerys Creek I received a phone call from the Department of Housing asking me whether I wished to proceed with the ban on the construction of public housing in my electorate that had been part of the policy of the previous State Liberal Government. That ban was an absolute and utter disgrace and a deliberate political manipulation of public housing policies. Many of the construction jobs flowing from such programs have been lost and those most vulnerable in our community are left to pay the human costs of such cutbacks.

There has been a massive attack on the State budget by the Federal Government. Some of it has been attributable to political expediency, but the Federal Government has shown that it has no real regard for the people of New South Wales. The cuts in general funds and general purpose grants, and the changes to cross-border leasing arrangements are just some examples. Yesterday the Governor outlined the framework of the Government’s policy and legislative proposals. I have touched on just a few of the issues that will face the Parliament. The continuation of sound management and emphasis on social justice and equity will benefit all the people of New South Wales. But, simply put, if the attacks from the Federal Government continue and Opposition members sit idly by and do not pull their Federal counterparts into line, there will be severe strains in relation to budget considerations. Opposition members know this yet they ignore what is happening. In fact, they seem to want it to happen to the people of New South Wales. For this I condemn them. The Governor’s Speech yesterday outlined the program for equity and justice, which we all found to be fair. I commend the Governor’s Speech to the House.

Mr WATKINS (Gladesville) [7.49 p.m.]: I am pleased and proud to second the motion for the adoption of the Address-in-Reply to the Governor’s Speech given at the opening of the New South Wales Parliament yesterday. Significantly, the Governor began his speech by outlining job creation and security as a key objective of the Carr Government. He stressed the concern felt by the Government at the continuing loss of jobs nationwide and stressed the unacceptably high level of youth unemployment. These disturbing trends are clearly deserving of the prominence given to them by the Governor. Widespread unemployment remains the most socially divisive, economically negative and personally destructive problem facing the State and nation.

In my electorate I see an impact on middle-aged men forced from meaningful employment by brutal redundancy plans, on women aged over 50 who have the skills, motivation and desperate need to work, on those coping with mental illness or disabilities trying to retake their place in the wider community, on non-English speaking background residents and, perhaps most disappointingly, on young people, including school leavers so keen to find the employment that is essential for their future life choices and personal definition. All members of Parliament know the impact of unemployment on these people, including the loss of hope, ill health, the destructive impact on families, and the waste of precious economic and human resources.

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The impact falls unevenly and its victims normally suffer in silence away from public gaze. The causes are equally clear. Technological development, structural changes, globalisation of the economy and the resulting drive by public and private employers to reduce the size of the work force, excessive profit taking and the ideological downsizing of public enterprises have all played a part. The result is that there has been an increasing acceptance by governments in Australia of a substantial rate of unemployment as being economically and politically acceptable. Clearly if unemployment had reduced by even a few percentage points in recent surveys, it would have been presented and reported by the Federal Government as a victory and a sign of the bright future we all hope for.

But unemployment can surely no longer be presented in that simplistic light and I am hopeful that the electorate will no longer find that acceptable. Where once it was acceptable to be dismissive of the plight of the unemployed, it is now too close to home. Almost everyone in the work force now realises that the redundancy offer presented to their co-workers last week may be offered to them this week. Job insecurity is rife in the community and it changes attitudes towards unemployment. Hopefully this reality will dawn on the Federal Government and it will finally cease blaming the unemployed. The rhetoric, policies and arguments that the Howard Government has pursued since its election have been designed to demonise the unemployed, to lay blame on them, and to diminish the human needs of those without work. It is time for the Federal Government to leave aside the politics of resentment and division.

It is time for all governments to acknowledge that the future of employment in Australia is desperately bleak, that the accepted policies of the past 20 years have failed and that the policies now being presented by most economic commentators and governments simply will not achieve the employment El Dorado we have been told is just around the corner. If only the tax system were reformed or productivity increased. If only the labour market were freed up or tariffs maintained for another five years. If only. Surely it is time to see through the excuses. Clearly nothing will protect our labour market from the external forces that are bearing down upon it. Worldwide trends continue to move in one direction and there is no evidence that the governments of Australia are willing to reveal the seriousness of the situation or to accept their duty to do anything effective about it. It is the great silence in Australian politics, the great denial of reality. It is a collective denial, a collective ignorance shared by most economists, business leaders and politicians.

At the base of the denial, the great lie upon which the whole sham is built is that currently accepted economic policies can cope with the problem, that economic growth and tax reform, labour market reform, low interest rates and low inflation will eventually combine to drive down unemployment and provide the long-term jobs required. All of that is a fabrication for political purposes. To justify those purposes a whole purgatory of lexicons is developed to describe policies that actually try, however inefficiently, to protect and defend jobs. They may be called outmoded work practices and entrenched inefficiencies but in the lives of employees they are jobs and careers that are essential for the economic and social wellbeing of themselves and their families. We have become part of a mass self-delusion that says we can undertake a huge range of anti-employment policies and still expect employment levels not merely to be maintained but to grow. We have become the most economically literate electorate, willingly debating the intricacies of foreign debt, interest rates and a maze of taxation rules. But with unemployment we accept the promises of snake oil salesmen. In the end it is understandable; the alternative is a difficult reality to accept.

Earlier this year we watched when Federal Ministers bizarrely celebrated when one month’s figures showed an average job growth of 15,000 when the budget estimate was only 13,000. Amazingly this was trumpeted as good news in an economy carrying almost one million unemployed people. We are tempted to believe that good times are returning when the only growth in jobs is in the part-time sector. Then we compound our collective stupidity by believing the excuses that this is what a modern economy is like, that this is what small business wants and needs, and that this is opening a flexible market to our young people and women. It does not seem to matter that part-time employment is not what most employees want, that it comes at the cost of secure long-term careers and that the impact of it falls most negatively on men.

On 8 September the Sydney Morning Herald reported a truly disturbing report from the Metal Trades Industry Association, Australia’s biggest manufacturing employer body, which revealed that the full-time job market was stagnant and in crisis. Full-time employment was virtually the same as it was seven years ago, despite the growth in that time in the working age population by 1,318,000, or 10 per cent. The job growth that had occurred was
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almost entirely in part-time positions. Especially disturbing in the report was the fact that men had been hardest hit, with more than one in 10 male full-time jobs having disappeared since 1990. Distressingly, the report made the point that any periods of economic recovery since that time had been too weak to restore those lost jobs. They are generally the jobs of middle-aged men and women who are beyond retraining and who leave the work force forever. Finally we are distracted by the colourful labels on the snake oil bottle - the work-for-the-dole scheme, the green corps program, the new apprenticeships scheme. We tolerate our Federal leaders when they pretend that the schemes are viable answers to a situation in which up to 30 per cent of young people in certain regions remain unemployed and unemployment amongst indigenous groups is more than 70 per cent, as was reported tonight on television.

The unemployed in my electorate, the parents of the young searching for work and the relatives of the well-trained, capable, willing workers who have no work are entitled to ask when the jobs dividend will arrive. They are confronted by the downsizing of hugely profitable banks, the redundancy programs in public enterprises such as Telstra and the disappearance of trainee jobs and apprenticeships throughout the manufacturing industry. When will these steps, which we are told are so essential, have the positive outcome? The answer is, of course, never. The jobs disappearing in recent years from industries throughout Australia will never return and the hoped-for growth in other new industries will never be sufficient to provide enough employment opportunities for the almost 9 per cent of our work force that is condemned to life without work. But none of this should take us by surprise. It has been starkly evident for the past 20 years.

We political leaders, who are charged with caring for our work force and people, have closed our eyes to this reality. We operate with a mind-set of the 1950s and 1960s, blithely ignoring the growing evidence since unemployment began to grow in the 1970s. Now few Australians believe that we will ever get unemployment below 6 or 7 per cent for any extended period. Yet in government and in the corporate sector we behave as if the present policies of market economics can and will eventually break the back of our unemployment. Inflation appeared unassailable for so many years but it was eventually defeated. Surely unemployment is just another economic variable that will finally react to the correct pulling of levers? The truth is, of course, that it will never so respond.

Our economy has entered the terminal stage of a century of human employment being replaced by technology. That trend will now only escalate. It is time that those in positions of power and influence finally accept that the emperor has no clothes. When that reality is embraced we will be able to move forward with rational policies that address the problems caused by unemployment. But acceptance must be the first step, and it may be the hardest. In this environment it is the duty of the Labor Government in New South Wales to assist in the process of returning unemployment to the centre stage of the political debate by presenting realistic and achievable alternatives, by changing the mind-set and rhetoric. That change of focus requires more than relying on market economics. It requires an acceptance of the responsibility for job protection and the provision of security especially for those directly employed in government departments and agencies.

In Australia in recent years, instead of governments accepting they have a role in protecting their employees, we have the crazy position in which government departments and agencies are at the forefront of job shedding. I know there are often complex causes, but the extent of job losses in the public sector in recent years is frightening. Recent Australian Bureau of Statistics figures reveal that in the months from February 1996 to September 1997 State and Federal public sector employees were reduced by almost 80,000. The bulk of them were slashed from the Federal public service by the Howard Government at the same time that it bleated about the prime importance of keeping Australia at work. Next year it intends to shed another 16,500 positions. In Telstra, the position is even more frightening: within two years 25,500 jobs will go.

The situation is the same across all Federal Government departments and authorities. Even the sacred defence forces will lose up to 8,000 jobs. On 12 June the Daily Telegraph reported that the ABC has been forced into the ludicrous situation of borrowing more than $40 million to enable it to shed a further 1,000 jobs. During this time job losses throughout the State public service, whilst not as dramatic, have proceeded in the same depressing direction. I know the arguments about the need for a lean and efficient public service, but in such a critical employment environment the deliberate evaporation of so many positions is stupid socially, desperately damaging in a personal way to the individuals and families impacted upon, and, in the end, dumb economics. The recent large-scale loss of skilled workers from both public and private
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employers has damaged the institutions for which they worked. It has finally been realised that such losses have had a major impact on confidence and business activity in the wider community.

The arrogance and hypocrisy of the Federal Government is highlighted when Minister after Minister, including the Prime Minister, talks about the critical importance of employment, the efforts at turning around the unemployment figures, and the personal pain they feel at the high rates of youth unemployment, while at the same time those Ministers make decisions in the cold, clear light of the Cabinet room that add tens of thousands to the unemployment queues. It is time to refocus the debate. The Premier did a great deal to attract new industries to New South Wales, and it is true that a whole range of new industries are locating here. Unfortunately, those gains have not matched the losses. Clearly, market forces will not solve the job crisis, especially in rural and regional New South Wales.

My appeal is especially for the victims of redundancy who are typically, but not exclusively, men in their forties and fifties with families and extensive financial responsibilities. They are usually loyal and efficient employees who may have worked for the one organisation for 10, 20 or 30 years. Indeed, their length of service and refusal to move around the work force - what may be described as their loyalty - often works against them. In the redundancy offer that loyalty, experience and corporate knowledge counts for almost nothing. These brutal management practices are often not especially smart, as the loss of many of these people tears away a level of employees who give value to an organisation far beyond their cost. Unfortunately, no column on the balance sheet measures these values.

After redundancy, whether voluntary or involuntary, many employees feel bitter and betrayed. Many find it almost impossible to find employment elsewhere, especially in areas of the economy in which they have developed skills. Generously presented redundancy packages with 30 or 40 weeks pay mean little when the person faces 10 or 15 years of unemployment. All Australian governments have a responsibility to protect the rights of their workers who face redundancy. For government authorities this should always be the last, rather than the first, option. Unfortunately, governments across Australia have been at the forefront of this practice. For too many Treasurers it is the first and easiest option.

I have not proposed answers to the problems we face with unemployment. Others are far better qualified to do that, but they cannot unlock those new and creative answers until it is accepted that the crisis is real and needs to be seen in a new way. That is my purpose tonight and the challenge of all of us struggling with this issue. Limitation on overtime, the shortening of the working week, the development of a new volunteerism and radical welfare reform proposals are all measures that have been tried in other parts of the world. Answers are available if people of good faith and true leadership look hard enough and argue seriously the case for reform.

It is clear that a change in view is essential if we are to avoid hardening into two distinct groups of those who have useful jobs and fulfilling careers, and those who are forever destined to be without employment and in receipt of inadequate levels of social welfare. This debate is urgent, first, because of the personal damage inflicted on every person who wants work but who cannot achieve it, and on their families, loved ones and dependents. Unemployment challenges their dignity and self-worth, and creates personal trauma that skews lives and destroys human creativity and happiness. These are our people, our constituents, often our relatives and our friends. They should not be forced to endure lives without work for any time longer than can be avoided. Second, because the collective impact of widespread unemployment has a devastating impact on every community across this nation and on the health of the body politic. In his 1995 text The End of Work author Jeremy Rifkin described the social risks of unemployment being driven by the technical revolution when he said at page 289:

The middle class, long the voice of reason and moderation in the political life of industrialized nations, finds itself buffeted on every side by technological change. Squeezed by reduced wages and rising unemployment, growing numbers of the middle class are beginning to search for quick solutions and dramatic rescue from the market forces and technological changes that are destroying their former way of life. In virtually every industrial nation, fear of an uncertain future is driving more and more people from the mainstream to the margins of society, where they seek refuge in extremist political and religious movements that promise to restore public order and put people back to work.

That fear of the future and rise of extremism is apparent throughout the western world and very much apparent in Australia. Unfortunately, it has been matched by a loss of hope and linked to a rise in crime, drug use and other antisocial behaviour. Unemployment is at the heart of those social problems. Accordingly it must be recognised as the central challenge to our community and attacked
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resolutely by every level of government. [Extension of time agreed to.]

Central to our purpose as a Labor Government is protecting and expanding the job market and ensuring, as far as we can within our responsibility, social justice for those who are without work. As the Governor said in his Speech, this is a prime responsibility of this Government, and one that is willingly embraced. Yesterday the Governor finished his Speech by saying that one of the three tests of the success of the Australian democracy was whether genuine progress had been made towards Aboriginal reconciliation based on justice and respect. He made it clear that the New South Wales Government would continue to promote the process of reconciliation in New South Wales. This follows the unanimous resolution passed by this House supporting reconciliation, and the apology on behalf of the Parliament to the Aboriginal people of New South Wales who were part of the stolen generation.

This Parliament, following the leadership set by the Carr Government, therefore has an enviable record regarding reconciliation with the indigenous people of Australia. We are, however, soon to enter a critical stage in that process. In December 1996 the Wik decision by the High Court opened a new stage in the land rights struggle by Aboriginal people; a struggle that may very well involve the State Parliaments in reacting to aspects of the Howard Government’s 10-point plan legislation that proposes to amend the Native Title Act. It is the responsibility of the Howard Government to ensure that the spirit of the Mabo and Wik court cases are given legislative support and framework. It seems, however, that the Federal Government is taking this opportunity to carve away at the hard-fought rights won by indigenous people.

After the recent months of half truths and lies about Wik from many of those on the conservative side of politics it is worth while remembering what the High Court actually decided in the Wik judgment: that native title can only be extinguished by an act showing a clear intention to extinguish that title; that pastoral leases did not show such an intention; that these leases did not give exclusive possession to the pastoralists; that native title rights could continue at the same time that the land was subject to a pastoral lease; and that in cases in which there is conflict in the exercise of those rights, native title rights were subordinate to those of pastoral leaseholders.

The High Court made it clear that native title rights co-exist only when they are not inconsistent with the rights of pastoralists. A native title holder cannot exclude a pastoral leaseholder from the area of the lease or stop the leaseholder from using the lease area for pastoral purposes. Also, a native title holder cannot do anything that interferes with the ability of the pastoralist’s livestock to use pasture and water, nor with the privacy of the homestead or the right to build fences, gates and windmills and undertake other improvements to the land. It is important to stress again that none of the rights of the pastoral leases are taken away by co-existing native title. It is against this reality that we have witnessed the shameful attempts by the Prime Minister, several Federal Ministers and State Premiers and, in particular, members of the National Party to confuse and strike fear into the electorate, especially those in rural Australia, about this issue.

We have witnessed the reprehensible behaviour of Federal leaders arguing that the High Court has pushed Aboriginal rights too far and that it is the duty of the Federal Government to bring it back to the centre. The arrogance, hypocrisy and shameful politics of that position fills all thinking and tolerant Australians aware of the history and reality of this nation with anger, disappointment and shame. We are entering a critical time in this debate. The Prime Minister has talked up the fact that his legislation is essential. In fact, it is unfair and probably unconstitutional. If the Federal Government attempts to extinguish native title on pastoral leases, it will lead to massive compensation claims and years of uncertainty through extended court action. It will tear apart the reconciliation process and cause great damage to the attempts of the Carr Government and all fair-minded people to achieve understanding and justice for Aboriginal people.

Many people fear that it will lead to a race debate election, where Wik and Aboriginal issues will become central in a cruel and divisive political campaign. Such an outcome would be disastrous for our community and our nation. It would draw negative world attention to our race record, and have an impact on trade, the success of the Olympic Games and the social cohesion of Australia. This is the time for all fair-minded and tolerant people to support native title and to do all that is possible to ensure justice for indigenous people. Yesterday I was proud to represent the people of Gladesville at the official opening of this Parliament. I was pleased to be joined by my wife, Deborah; my daughter, Sarah; and my parents, Julie and Peter. I am thankful for the opportunity to speak in this debate. I look forward to the session and to the continuing reforms of the Carr Labor Government.

Debate adjourned on motion by Mr Kerr.

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Debate resumed from an earlier hour.

Dr MACDONALD (Manly) [8.12 p.m.]: Prior to the adjournment of the debate I was arguing that the reforms included in the charter of reform were not a hampering of government, as a previous Premier said. In the last Parliament 438 bills were introduced and 388 became law - only 22 bills were amended by the Independents and the Opposition. That Parliament also passed legislation to sell off the GIO and to privatise the State Bank, as well as passing the Industrial Relations Bill. Mike Steketee, in an article in the Sydney Morning Herald, said:

Carr said he would not reverse any of the reforms in the charter if he won the next election with a clear majority . . . We believe in accountability. It is better for the Government.

They are hollow words indeed, particularly when put in the context of what has happened in the past six to 12 months. When did the demise begin? It started in February 1995, prior to the last election. At that time the current Speaker published a paper entitled "The Draft White Paper of Parliamentary Reform", in which he stated in the overview:

Under the Westminster system the elected government should be able to function in a manner which allows their legislative program to be enacted.

Whilst recognising that individual Members of Parliament must of necessity be able to raise matters on behalf of constituents, one should never forget that the main function of the Parliament is to approve in a legislative forum, the government’s policies. The Legislative Assembly must also be the forum where the government of the day can pursue its mandate.

I thought the Parliament was a forum in which the Executive Government was held accountable. I believe in the unfettered rights of private members to speak on issues of concern to them and to their electorates. Apparently that was not in the mind of the Speaker. That set the tone for what has happened in the past two years. Tony Harris, the New South Wales Auditor-General, saw the writing on the wall on 3 October 1996. He was reported in the Sydney Morning Herald as being particularly critical of the Carr Government. He said:

The Carr Government has demonstrated a breathtaking willingness to defy the will of Parliament, spending taxpayers money without full accountability and refusing to create laws it does not like.

He said:

The public has good cause to be nervous about some of the Government’s actions which, at times, grievously offend the principle of parliamentary democracy.

The rot is setting in - it is that rot that has brought us to this point today. I met the Premier on 12 March 1996 to discuss a range of issues, including support for the charter of reform and estimates committees. We have now reached the point where members are unable to effectively represent their electorates - the Premier is even denying his backbenchers the right to speak. Gags and guillotines have been introduced. The Leader of the House, who is currently at the table - I wonder where the subject of this motion is - is acting, in my view, with the full support of the Premier. Parliamentary democracy is at risk. I am not prepared to stand by and watch it become extinct. I refer honourable members to the following quote about democracy:

The death of democracy is not likely to be by assassination or ambush. It will be a slow extinction from apathy, indifference and under-nourishment.

Majority governments - a culture that we managed to change in the last Parliament - see parliament as a rubber stamp. They seek, as we have seen in the past six to 12 months, to extinguish debate and control the speakers and the conduct of Parliament by the use of the guillotine and the gag, which terminates any debate. In the Forty-ninth Parliament, during the Greiner years - prior to my arrival here - the gag was used 54 times. In the Fiftieth Parliament, it was used only five times - in the first session when the Government had a majority. In the Fifty-first Parliament - the current Parliament - the guillotine has been used eight times and the gag has been used 15 times.

The Parliament’s black day was 29 May, when the Appropriation Bill was guillotined by the Government. Many Government backbenchers were not able to speak to it. It was a sad day; it was one of the turning points in my attitude to the functioning of this place. The Government guillotined legislation such as the parental responsibility legislation; I was gagged on that bill by the honourable member for Rockdale. The seizure of power has been demonstrated when government business has been given precedence through the suspension of standing orders - I will come back to that in my reply. I seek the support of the House in the censure of the Premier on these matters. [Time expired.]

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Mr WHELAN (Ashfield - Minister for Police) [8.18 p.m.]: The motion of the honourable member for Manly is strange because it refers to a document that -

Mr Hartcher: On a point of order. Mr Acting-Speaker, I draw your attention to Standing Order 124(3), which states:

Debate will be as follows:

(a) Mover - 15 minutes
(b) Member named - 15 minutes

The Minister for Police is not the member named in the motion; the Premier is named in the motion. If the Minister for Police wishes to speak he can, but he has only five minutes in which to do so. Only the member named has 15 minutes. I ask that the clock be corrected or that the Minister cease to speak and the member named speak. I am sure that the Leader of the House is familiar with this standing order.

Mr WHELAN: On the point of order. This is nothing more than a gag. I now have only 3˝ minutes in which to reply. The honourable member for Gosford just said that I should be given only five minutes in which to speak, so he has effectively gagged me from speaking.

[Interruption]

The standing orders are quite clear. However, the motion states:

That this House censures the Premier for his failure to uphold both the letter and the spirit of the Charter of Reform, signed by him on 17 September 1992, and for the Government’s repeated abuses of the procedures of the Legislative Assembly.

What is my title?

Mr Hartcher: The censure is of the Premier.

Mr WHELAN: The censure is of the Premier but Opposition members are relying on the idiosyncrasies of a motion moved by the honourable member for Manly, who had no intention of using it as a gag. Five minutes it is; I have only five minutes.

Mr DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Order! Given the circumstances and the fact that, as the honourable member for Gosford mentioned, Standing Order 124 specifically states that the member named has 15 minutes speaking time, I uphold the point of order. However, I seek the indulgence of the Chamber that the Leader of the House be given five minutes speaking time commencing now, and I so rule.

Mr WHELAN (Ashfield - Minister for Police) [8.22 p.m.]: Before I was rudely interrupted I was referring to a document dated 17 September 1992 which contains a series of measures following a memorandum of understanding entered into between Robert John Carr, on behalf of the Australian Labor Party, and John Hatton, Clover Moore and Dr Macdonald. The document, at best, was to expire at the conclusion of the last election. It has expired through the effluxion of time. There is no binding agreement on this Government. However, let me refer to many of the matters listed in that document - measures and yardsticks used by those responsible for it, including former Premier, Nick Greiner, the first person to enter into this agreement. The former Greiner Government said that this agreement would be implemented in New South Wales.

As I said earlier, this document was valid up until the March 1995 election. This Government acknowledges that many matters in this document are worthy of implementation. The honourable member for Manly referred to the inability of the Government to appoint joint estimates committees. He should talk to people on the Opposition benches and ask them to explain to him why we have this farcical position. This Government wants to appoint joint estimates committees but the Liberal Party and the National Party do not. This Government is happy to have joint estimates committees. The colleagues of the honourable member for Manly, including the honourable member for Hawkesbury in this House and his colleagues in the Liberal Party and National Party in the upper House, have not come to grips with the fact that there should be joint estimates committees. This Government is on the public record as saying that it wants joint estimates committees and it has moved motions to enable that to occur. The charter of reform -

Dr Macdonald: It has expired.

Mr WHELAN: It expired due to the effluxion of time, but the principles within it remain. One of them relates to the joint estimates committees to which the honourable member referred. The honourable member for Manly referred also to gags and guillotines. He said that during the lifetime of the Fifty-first Parliament there were eight gags.

Dr Macdonald: Eight guillotines.

Mr WHELAN: Eight guillotines. The guillotine can be applied on a number of occasions. If the honourable member for Manly thinks that it is triggered on every occasion he is mistaken. The guillotine gives this Government an opportunity to
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ensure that its legislative program goes through. The honourable member for Manly said also that members do not have an opportunity to raise issues. Question time is a perfect time. The standing orders relating to question time enable the same number of questions to be asked now as were asked in the lifetime of the former Government - standing orders implemented by the former Government. If the honourable member wishes to be critical of this Government he should be critical also of the former Government as it implemented those standing orders. The standing orders enable a maximum number of 10 questions to be asked. We have continued that process.

It was not possible for the former Opposition to move a vote of no confidence in the then Government. It took some considerable time before I was able to convince the honourable member for Manly, Mr Hatton and the honourable member for Bligh of the necessity for Opposition members to be able to move urgency motions in this Chamber to bring the then Government to book. Honourable members are now able to move urgency motions in this Chamber. However, that process is not working properly. I was pleased to see it working properly today.

Earlier today the Leader of the Opposition addressed this Chamber and was heard in silence for five minutes. The House then decided that he should not be allowed to proceed. If we can remove all the personal issues that are involved we might be able to use that process to help us handle matters in this Chamber. The Opposition has got away with murder. Motions are moved in this Chamber for publicity purposes. Inflammatory and argumentative notices of motions are read out in this Chamber every day. Opposition members are simply reading out those notices of motions for publicity purposes. A number of members who wish to make private members’ statements are listed on the notice paper. Members can make statements on any one of three days. [Time expired.]

Mr HARTCHER (Gosford) [8.27 p.m.]: I congratulate the Leader of the House on speaking tongue-in-cheek. When he said that the Opposition had got away with murder we knew that we were in for the comedy hour. When the Government took office in April 1995 it did not have an absolute majority; it depended upon the casting vote of the Speaker, so it was anxious to ensure that it retained some degree of goodwill with Independent members. On 2 May 1995 the Leader of the House wrote to the honourable member for Manly and said:

I confirm that I have no intention of making any changes to Standing Orders nor to the Sessional Orders at this time.

That lasted long! That promise was broken within three months. He continued:

Any future proposal for change, if any, would be made after consultation with the Independent Members of Parliament.

That was the second broken promise.

Mr McManus: What!

Mr HARTCHER: If honourable members opposite say that ramming matters through the Standing Orders and Procedure Committee is consultation, that is a change in my understanding of the term. The Leader of the House continued:

It is the Government’s intention to re-establish the Regulation Review Committee . . .

The Government kept that promise. He then went on to say that the Government would retain private members’ day. That is a good one! How many private members’ days did we have during the last sitting? Out of seven possible private members’ days we had three. Every time a private members’ day was scheduled to take place the Leader of the House moved suspension of standing orders to prevent it from happening on the following day. The Leader of the House did that with the last four private members’ days. However, the Government promised to retain private members’ days. The Leader of the Government also stated that the Government would retain current question time procedures and matters of public importance. He then said:

If the proposal for a Management Committee is to be implemented the Committee will operate on the basis of consensus.

No wonder a management committee has not been implemented. No-one believes for one moment that it would operate on the basis of consensus, knowing the attitude of Government members in this House. The whole idea of the charter of reform which the coalition members signed with the Independent members of Parliament - maybe they did not sign with great enthusiasm, but they signed it and honoured it - was to ensure that the Parliament wound back the clock and that the Executive was made accountable to Parliament. That happened and it worked for three years. For three years we never had the gag or the guillotine in this House and honourable members opposite loved it. For three long years they made hay while the sun shone. Everything changed in May 1995 when the Government took office, and it changed even more when the Clarence by-election took place and the
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honourable member for Clarence became a member of this place, giving the Government an absolute majority. Since then we have had a systematic watering down of the charter of reform. We have had a systematic denial of private members’ day. A whole day which was supposed to be for private members’ business has now been slotted to one side time after time. Will tomorrow be a private members' day? No, because the Minister for Police moved suspension of standing orders again tonight to take it off the agenda.

As the honourable member for Manly said, on 29 May we had the saddest night in this House when the entire budget was gagged. On the statistics which the honourable member for Manly has quoted, that counts as one gag, but on no fewer than seven occasions that night the honourable member for Broken Hill moved that the question be put. On seven occasions members were prevented from speaking, to ensure that the budget was rammed through and people such as the honourable member for The Entrance could vote for the poker machine tax increase. Honourable members will hear about that one in 1999. The Opposition has adhered to the charter of reform, as the honourable member for Manly can attest and will attest in his reply. Both in government and in opposition, the Liberal and National parties respect the rights of Parliament. They respect the rights of members to bring forward issues of concern, and will uphold the fundamental rights of the House. [Time expired.]

Mr McMANUS (Bulli) [8.31 p.m.]: I appreciate the opportunity to say a few words on this issue. Frankly, I am disappointed with the honourable member for Manly, because the situation is quite clear and he understands it. The Labor Party is in government. I say at the outset that the coalition is not prepared to admit that I was a member of Parliament when its members were on this side of the Chamber and when "Jackboots" Moore was in charge. On 50 occasions the guillotine was applied in this place and there was not one complaint from any Independent member in this House at that time, and yet the then Labor Opposition had to put up with it. Now we have a situation where one member of Parliament, an Independent, feels he has the absolute right to control what this Government does.

What the former Government agreed to with Mr Greiner way back in 1992 may have been well and good in those days of close numbers in the House. But, as the Leader of the House has indicated, that is no longer the case. The gag and the guillotine were established as practices in this place for specific reasons. The honourable member for Manly should understand that oppositions have agendas. One of those clever agendas is to diminish the opportunity for the Government to get through its program. The Government plays the game; it plays the politics. The former Speaker knows full well what I am talking about: the gag and the guillotine are used as devices to ensure that if there is a stupid situation of an Opposition playing politics and not allowing the Government to carry out its agenda, some formula is in place to ensure the Government has the right to govern.

Clearly, this Government is doing the right thing. The honourable member for Manly believes he is not getting enough input into the parliamentary process, but he has the same opportunity as members on this side of the House have. As a member of this Government, I have never been told by my leader, or anyone in my party, that I am not allowed to speak on an issue. I am as entitled as the next member to speak on any issues. I do not have to ask my leader. I put my name on a list, as does any other member of Parliament, and I am allowed to say what I have to say on behalf of my constituents.

Mr J. H. TURNER (Myall Lakes) [8.34 p.m.]: Members were treated with sheer arrogance by the Leader of the House in the way he presented his speech on behalf of the Government. The honourable member for Gosford called it the comedy hour. As a lawyer, the Leader of the House is supposed to uphold the law, yet he constantly abuses the standing orders of this place in order to gain a benefit for the Australian Labor Party. His behaviour tonight was no exception. I too am a member of the Standing Orders and Procedure Committee. I have attended meetings in the Speaker’s rooms and I have noted the disdain with which Opposition members are treated when they are told, "When you are in government you might have some say, but you have no say now." I thought it was a two-way street in this Chamber, that honourable members actually did have some debate about democracy. But with the abuse of power that this Government employs, that certainly is not the case.

Honourable members have talked about the repeated abuses, particularly by the Premier, of the procedures of the Legislative Assembly. Question time is a farce. I do not know whether Bob Ellis is still writing the Premier’s speeches for him, but someone is writing them. One could ask any question and it would not receive an answer from this Premier. Continually he is allowed to roam all over the Chamber and avoid answering the questions asked, and that clearly constitutes an abuse of this House. Today, again, honourable members heard the Premier give an answer that was clearly a ministerial statement, yet members on this side of the Chamber were refused the right to answer that statement. It is
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a farce that has been continuing for the last two years or more. It is a farce that will be completed in 1999 when a Liberal-National government returns to office, and when democracy will be returned to this Chamber.

Honourable members have tonight talked about the gag. The Government might think it is cute to have the gag, but Government members should be aware that I tell my local community that I was refused the right to speak on their behalf in the Parliament by this Government. The honourable member for Bulli said that he has never been refused the right to speak. Day in and day out members are refused the right to speak. The arrogance of this Government is repeatedly highlighted in my local newspapers when I am reported as saying that once again I was not allowed to speak on behalf of my constituents. Yesterday I was gagged in debate and that will be reported in my local newspapers. I assure members that the story will get a run. The repeated suspension of standing orders shows the incompetence of this Government. It cannot manage its own program and has to resort to suspending standing orders and doing away with private members’ days in order to get through its program.

Again I say to the Government: keep it up; it shows the total incompetence of this Government, the Leader of the House and the Premier of this State in running the Government of New South Wales. The people of this State want democracy in this State, and more than half the people of this State are being denied it. In fact, it is more than half the people, because it must not be forgotten that 77,000 more people voted for the Liberal and National parties than for the Labor Party in the last election. Fifty-two per cent of the population are being denied the right to be heard in this Parliament by the arrogance of the Labor Party and the arrogance of the Premier. The Premier struts his stuff arrogantly up and down this Chamber, just as Paul Keating acted arrogantly in Canberra. This Premier will end up exactly where Paul Keating is - a forgotten memory. One hopes that that will happen in the short term.

I wish my colleague the honourable member for Manly had not voted for a fixed-term parliament, because we might have been able to rid ourselves of this mob earlier than 1999. I can assure honourable members opposite that Opposition members are moving around their communities, including those of the honourable member for The Entrance, the Minister for Fair Trading, and Minister for Women and the Minister for Transport, and Minister for Tourism. The Government is on the nose because of its arrogance and abuse of the processes of this Parliament. The Government will lose office in 1999, when some semblance of democracy, which has been denied us time and again, will return to this place.

Mr McBRIDE (The Entrance) [8.39 p.m.]: Mr Acting-Speaker -

Mr ACTING-SPEAKER (Mr Mills): Order! Standing Order 124 provides that the order of speakers for this debate is the mover, the member named, four other members, the member named in reply and then the mover in reply. Therefore I call the mover in reply.

Mr McBride: Can I clarify this?

Mr ACTING-SPEAKER: No.

Mr McBride: I simply want an explanation.

Mr ACTING-SPEAKER: Order! I suggest that the honourable member for The Entrance read Standing Order 124.

Dr MACDONALD (Manly) [8.40 p.m.], in reply: The reason for this confusion is simple. The member named in this censure motion did not respond to the points I raised; he delegated that responsibility to the Leader of the House. It was rightly pointed out that he had only five minutes in which to speak, and now there is confusion about the number of members who can speak in the debate. I was reluctant to move this censure motion; in six years I have not moved a censure motion against a Minister or a member. It is an indictment of the Premier that he did not have the courtesy to respond to the motion. If necessary this debate could have been adjourned until it was convenient for the Premier to respond. Censure debates have been adjourned in the past.

In this censure debate a member of Parliament raised extremely serious matters about breaches of a document signed by him. I will not have history rewritten by the Leader of the House. The document was welcomed as a strategic document which would reform the way the Parliament was run, and it was accepted in that spirit by the Leader of the House when he was in opposition. It is amazing how members of Parliament become turncoats when they get into government. It is extremely disappointing. I do not like to see history rewritten. In the fiftieth Parliament crossbench members worked comfortably with both the Opposition and the Government, and the Opposition at that time received significant privileges as a result.

Has the Minister for Police forgotten the privileges and the opportunities afforded the then Opposition to hold the Government accountable? I am proud of that because it was proper. A decent opposition should have the opportunity to hold the
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Government accountable. However, members opposite are denying this Opposition the opportunity to do that. The seizure of power back from the floor of the Parliament to the Executive Government is reflected in other ways, especially the way in which Government business is given precedence through the suspension of standing orders. That has happened on at least 13 occasions. In 1995 it happened twice, in 1996 it happened eight times and in 1997 it happened three times.

The infamous occasion on which standing orders were suspended was on 28 May when the Leader of the House moved a motion to suspend standing orders for the next day, obliterating all private members’ business but exclusively allowing one notice of motion on coal, standing in the name of the honourable member for Cessnock, to remain. The honourable member had an opportunity and he received privileges above all other members of the House. It was outrageous. Private members’ privileges go to the heart of the role of an MP. The charter of reform signed by the Premier exactly five years ago to the day, which the Government has in a sense defiled, reflected the role of a member of Parliament. The role of members is not to be bullied by the Government and not simply to have business rubber-stamped through this place. Clearly, the Labor Party’s commitment to the document it signed was shallow. The document stated:

The Australian Labor Party agrees with concerns expressed by the Independent Members that the role of the Legislature and the procedures of the Legislative Assembly provide too few opportunities for real participation by Members in the shaping and enactment of legislation. In addition, it is acknowledged that much more can and should be done to enhance the ability of Members to make the Executive Government of the day more accountable to the Legislature.

Do members opposite still believe that?

Mr Whelan: Absolutely.

Mr McManus: Yes. We just do not want to do it your way.

Dr MACDONALD: Honourable members fought hard for the opportunity to deal with private members’ business. Paragraph (iii) on page 6 of the document refers to the provision of broader opportunities for private members to raise issues or initiate legislation as set out in public discussion papers. The document goes on to highlight the importance of the role of private members in this place. I was unimpressed by the speech of the honourable member for Bulli, who said that in some way I was spitting the dummy. He expressed concern that he was not getting the same priority that he alleges members opposite received in the fiftieth Parliament. I have raised this matter in the House because all members of Parliament are affected by it. I am acting on behalf of all members of Parliament who have rights, not only a small cartel of members opposite.

Negotiations on the provision of private members’ days took place between June and September 1991. I give credit to the Australian Labor Party for breaking the deadlock that existed between the Independents and the then coalition on how to formulate special time for private members. In fact, the ALP proposed that a special morning be set aside for private members’ business; at that time the coalition had been procrastinating on the proposal. On three consecutive Thursdays prior to the House rising on 27 June the Government cancelled private members’ privileges. At that time the Leader of the House said, "Believe me, we will give you some extra time." However, that did not happen. Why should I believe the Leader of the House now?

The document signed by the Premier included a provision that I believe came from his heart. It was not simply a matter of expediency that would provide broader opportunities for private members to raise and initiate matters. The document provided for charter of reform legislation committees, which are an essential part of participation. Have any legislation committees been established in this Parliament? In the past two years not one legislation committee has been established. However, a host of them were established in the last Parliament. The Government simply pays lip-service to participation in this place. In 1993 the Local Government Amendment Bill was referred to a legislation committee. That bill was subjected to 200 amendments, and Garry West is quoted as saying that many of the amendments that came out of the legislation committee process were extremely valuable.

The Government is seeking to strip the rights for which we fought hard and which brought significant benefits to the way in which matters are dealt with. I remind honourable members of some of the legislation committees established in the past; it seems so long ago, it almost seems that the halcyon days will be forgotten. The defamation law reform bill was referred to a legislation committee, as was the south-east forest protection bill, the whistleblower legislation and the local government bill. Many other bills were also referred to a legislation committee.

The other matter worth touching on relates to estimates committees. They are a small window into the budget process and were supported by Bob Carr
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when he signed that document. I draw to the attention of the House that the only difference between the two documents, the one signed by Nick Greiner and the one signed by Bob Carr, appears in the last paragraph on the last page of the conclusion. I shall read it for the benefit of the House because it relates to this issue. Anyone can check this because the documents are on record. It states:

The Australian Labor Party supports the Estimates Committee System and is committed to developing it to eventually encompass a budget formulation role.

That was included at the insistence of the Premier and was not in the Greiner document. Yet the Government has made no attempt to introduce that measure.

Mr Whelan: That is rubbish and you know it.

Dr MACDONALD: I will hold you to your word. Why will you not eventually encompass a budget formulation role? I introduced a discussion paper into the House about an expenditure and revenue committee but that has been lost. I seek the support of the House to bring the Premier to account because he has disregarded this important document and is now stripping away the democratic rights of members of this Parliament.

Question - That the motion be agreed to - put.

The House divided.

Mr Armstrong Mr O’Farrell
Mr Beck Mr D. L. Page
Mr Blackmore Mr Peacocke
Mr Brogden Mr Phillips
Mr Chappell Mr Photios
Mr Cochran Mr Richardson
Mr Cruickshank Mr Rixon
Mr Ellis Mr Rozzoli
Ms Ficarra Mr Schipp
Mr Fraser Mr Schultz
Mr Hartcher Ms Seaton
Mr Hazzard Mrs Skinner
Mr Humpherson Mr Smith
Dr Kernohan Mr Souris
Mr MacCarthy Mr J. H. Turner
Dr Macdonald Mr R. W. Turner
Mr Merton Mr Windsor
Ms Moore Tellers,
Mr Oakeshott Mr Jeffery
Mr O’Doherty Mr Kerr Noes, 41

Ms Allan Mr Martin
Mr Amery Ms Meagher
Mr Anderson Mr Mills
Ms Andrews Mr Moss
Mr Aquilina Mr Neilly
Mrs Beamer Ms Nori
Mr Clough Mr E. T. Page
Mr Crittenden Mr Price
Mr Debus Dr Refshauge
Mr Face Mr Rogan
Mr Gaudry Mr Scully
Mrs Grusovin Mr Shedden
Ms Hall Mr Stewart
Ms Harrison Mr Tripodi
Mr Iemma Mr Watkins
Mr Knowles Mr Whelan
Mr Langton Mr Woods
Mrs Lo Po’ Mr Yeadon
Mr Lynch Tellers,
Mr McBride Mr Beckroge
Mr McManus Mr Thompson

Mrs Chikarovski Mr Carr
Mr Collins Mr Harrison
Mr Downy Mr Hunter
Mr Glachan Mr Knight
Mr Kinross Mr Markham
Mr Slack-Smith Mr Nagle
Mr Small Mr Rumble
Mr Tink Mr Sullivan

Question so resolved in the negative.

Motion negatived.

The following bills introduced in the Legislative Assembly during the previous session of the present Parliament and not dealt with because of prorogation were restored to the business paper at the stage that they had reached at the date of prorogation:

Historic Houses Amendment Bill
Health Professionals (Special Events Exemption) Bill

Motion, by leave, by Mr Whelan agreed to:

That this House send messages to the Legislative Council requesting that the:

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Costs in Criminal Cases Amendment Bill
Crimes Legislation Amendment Bill
Crimes Legislation Amendment (Procedure) Bill
Health Legislation Amendment Bill
Public Trustee Corporation Bill
Snowy Hydro Corporatisation Bill

forwarded to the Legislative Council for concurrence during the second session of the present Parliament and not dealt with because of prorogation, be restored to the Council’s business paper.

Bill introduced and read a first time.

Mr YEADON (Granville - Minister for Land and Water Conservation) [9.04 p.m.]: I move:

That this bill be now read a second time.

This bill amends certain parts of the Real Property Act 1900 and the Conveyancing Act 1919. Principally it deals with the severance of joint tenancies, the survival of actions for sale or partition, caveats and the service of notices in respect of plans. These amendments arise from an ongoing process of review of the Real Property Act and the Conveyancing Act. This process is intended to improve the effectiveness of these Acts, to increase the efficiency of their administration and to streamline conveyancing practices. The proposals in this bill are largely technical in their nature. They have come from reviews within both the Land Titles Office and the New South Wales Law Reform Commission, in the latter case through the commission’s report on joint tenancies.

The first group of amendments arise from the commission’s recommendations. As honourable members would know, a person can own property with another person in one of two ways. They can own the property either as joint tenants or as tenants in common. The main difference between the two is that the rule of survivorship applies to joint tenancies. This means that when a joint tenant dies, his or her interest goes automatically to the survivor unaffected by the person’s will or the rules of intestacy. Joint tenancies are very popular, particularly with married people. With a joint tenancy you can often avoid the cost and delay of taking out probate of a will. However, sometimes a joint tenant will decide that he or she no longer wants the rule of survivorship to apply. This can be due to a marriage breakdown or other change in relations between the joint tenants. When it happens, the common law allows one joint tenant to sever the joint tenancy unilaterally. After severance a tenancy in common comes into place.

In the case of Torrens title land, a popular means of severing a joint tenancy is to transfer your interest to yourself. It is popular because it is cheap, quick and simple. However, the Law Reform Commission has noted that there is some doubt about the legal certainty of this means of severance. A new section 97(1) of the Real Property Act is intended to remove that doubt. It declares the application of the common law rule to Torrens title land. Another deficiency which the Law Reform Commission has noted is that there is no requirement on the person who severs a joint tenancy to tell the other owners. This bill authorises the Registrar General to call for details of those connected with the land so that he can send them notice of the severance. This will enable them to make a will or change their will to take account of the fact that the rule of survivorship will no longer apply. This bill also deals with the severance of a joint tenancy of common law title land, also known as old system title land.

Under this amendment the person who brings about the severance will be required to notify the other joint tenants of the severance. For practical purposes the Registrar General cannot take on this responsibility as he will for Torrens title land. The Registrar General will, however, prepare a standard form of notice. The last amendment concerning joint tenancies also arises from the commission’s report and deals with section 66G of the Conveyancing Act. Its purpose is to remove the doubt as to whether an action for partition or sale by a joint tenant under that section would be defeated by his or her death.

Actions under section 66G are brought where there is a dispute between co-owners as to disposal of property. Typically, one of the owners approaches the court seeking an order authorising a sale of the property. A problem can arise in the case of a joint tenancy if one owner dies before the order is made because of the right of survivorship. Under this amendment the action will survive for the benefit of the deceased’s estate and beneficiaries. The next two amendments concern caveats. Honourable members would be aware that a caveat is a form of statutory injunction created under the Real Property Act. Caveats provide an inexpensive, simple and quick way for people to protect unregistered interests in land. Firstly, a new provision, section 36(6AA) is inserted. It deals with the status and effectiveness of a caveat after it has been uplifted or removed from the Land Titles Office to enable correction of an error or omission.

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In most cases caveats are prepared in the proper way and are immediately recorded in the Torrens register, but occasionally a caveat will omit essential information such as the details of the claim, the caveator’s address or the reference to the land. In such a case the caveat has to be uplifted so that the caveator can add this information. Without the essential information the Registrar General cannot comply with his statutory duties and functions, such as notifying the landowner of the caveat and recording it on title. Recently the question of the status of an uplifted caveat was considered by the Supreme Court. The court took the view that the caveat which has been uplifted from the Land Titles office will continue to stop the registration of legitimate dealings such as transfers, mortgages and leases.

The Supreme Court’s decision moves the balance between the rights of the caveator and the rights of the landowner too far in favour of the caveator. This amendment will shift that balance back to the centre. It will make it clear that after a caveat has been uplifted dealings which are in order for registration will not be stopped by the caveat. The second amendment concerning caveats deals with the right to lodge a caveat to prevent the cancellation of an easement. In 1995 the Real Property Act was amended to provide a simple and inexpensive way for abandoned easements to be removed from titles. Section 49 allows the Registrar General to cancel the notification of an easement from a title if the applicant can prove that the easement has been abandoned for 20 years. When the Registrar General is satisfied that the applicant has proved abandonment he sends notice to anyone who could suffer by the cancellation.

At present the Real Property Act is drafted in such a way that if someone objects to the cancellation but cannot convince the Registrar General that the application should be rejected he or she must get an injunction from the Supreme Court. As honourable members would appreciate, this can be an expensive and complex process. Under the present law there is no facility for the person to lodge a caveat. This amendment provides that facility. A person objecting to the cancellation will be able to lodge a caveat. This will provide the additional time to organise the objection and prepare for court if necessary. It will give the same rights to those affected by the cancellation of an easement that apply generally under the Real Property Act.

The final substantial amendment concerns notice of the registration or alteration of a plan. A new section 196AA introduces a facility in the Conveyancing Act for the Registrar General to give notice to anyone who could be affected by the proposed registration or alteration of a plan. The power to give notice of this sort already exists in the Real Property Act. It has proven to be very useful and, because of this, it is now being extended to the Conveyancing Act to cover plans. Under the new provisions the Registrar General will be able to give notice whenever he intends to register a plan or register a change to a plan or any associated instrument. Finally, the bill makes a number of amendments consequential on the amendments outlined above. The bill, though not lengthy, contains provisions which will make conveyancing more effective and less expensive. I commend the bill to the House.

Debate adjourned on motion by Mr Jeffery.

Bill introduced and read a first time.

Mr YEADON (Granville - Minister for Land and Water Conservation), on behalf of Mr Whelan [9.15 p.m.]: I move:

That this bill be now read a second time.

This bill creates five new offences connected with threats to contaminate goods or the deliberate contamination of goods. The amendments have been prompted by incidents involving the contamination of goods in February and May this year. The first incident involved threats to contaminate Arnott’s biscuits in both New South Wales and Queensland. The offenders, who are still at large, sought to make law enforcement officers and the courts do certain things to review the conviction of a prisoner in Queensland. The second incident involved a demand for money directed at Nestlé in New South Wales. The offender in the second incident has since been extradited from Victoria and has pleaded guilty to extortion.

These incidents illustrate the need for legislation directed at threats which do not include a demand for money, and threats made across State borders. As a result of the Arnott’s incident the Attorney General appointed a consultative committee to review the adequacy of the existing criminal law. The committee included representatives of the food industry, the Police Service, the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions, and the Attorney General’s Department. The committee was chaired by the Chairman of the New South Wales Law Reform Commission, Michael Adams, QC. The
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committee concluded that existing offences, such as extortion, did not adequately deal with the situation and that there was a need for new legislation.

The Premier has stressed the need for uniform laws on the contamination of goods laws in all Australian States. To date, Victoria and Queensland have introduced laws which are not uniform. In May 1997 a draft uniform bill on contamination of goods offences was published by the model criminal code officers committee. Following the passage of this bill New South Wales will become the first State to enact provisions from the code. The basic offences in proposed sections 93IB, 93IC and 93ID of this bill come from the model criminal code. Proposed section 93IB creates the offence of contaminating goods with intent to cause public alarm or economic loss. Proposed section 93IC creates the offence of threatening to contaminate goods with intent to cause public alarm or economic loss. Proposed section 93ID creates the offence of making false statements concerning contamination of goods with intent to cause public alarm or economic loss.

The mental element of the basic offences consists of the intention either to cause public alarm or anxiety or to cause economic loss through public awareness of the contamination. Economic loss may be caused in several ways. Members of the public may not purchase the goods or similar goods under threat. Companies may incur costs by taking steps to avoid public alarm or anxiety either by publishing advertisements or notices or by withdrawing goods from the market. The economic loss element of the offence was justified in the model criminal code discussion paper on the basis that producers may be forced to incur considerable and predictable expenses to ensure that the consumer is protected. Intention to cause economic loss is an unusual but not an unknown element in the criminal law. It is, for example, an element in blackmail.

The term "contamination" is defined broadly as "interference" with goods, or making it appear that goods have been contaminated or interfered with. "Goods" are defined as including any article or substance. Proposed section 93IE contains the aggravated offence of making an unwarranted demand in connection with contaminating or threatening to contaminate or making false statements about contaminating goods. This offence will fill a gap in New South Wales law as most extortion offences involve a demand for money. Some cases of deliberate contamination of goods, such as the Arnott’s case, have not involved demands for money. In this bill an "unwarranted demand" does not have to involve a demand for money.

Proposed section 93IF contains the aggravated offence of contamination of goods causing grievous bodily harm or death. Although the amendment does not specify this, if the circumstances of the case justify it a person who contaminates goods and causes death may instead be charged with murder. Finally, clause 93IG extends the territorial application of this legislation to a person who acts outside New South Wales but who intends to cause harm in New South Wales. This provision provides a unique territorial connection with New South Wales purely by reference to the mental element of the offence. The provision displaces the current rules governing the territorial application of New South Wales laws set out in Crimes Act 1900 sections 3A and 3B. There are similar although differently worded provisions in the Victorian legislation. Proposals for a model criminal code on the extraterritorial application of laws have not yet been published. The New South Wales provisions may give the other Australian States guidance in the drafting of similar provisions.

This legislation will have both a deterrent and an educational role. Society must be protected from people who make threats to contaminate goods. On the other hand, amendments to the Criminal Procedure Act in schedule 2 of the bill will permit less serious examples of the contamination offences in clauses 93IB, 93IC and 93ID to be dealt with in the Local Court in appropriate circumstances. This legislation is necessary to protect the community. The deliberate contamination of goods, or threats or false statements about contamination, have the potential to disrupt society and to damage the economy. Individuals and families may also be adversely affected in all kinds of ways - their health may be at risk, their jobs may be threatened if factories or shops close, and their domestic routines may be disrupted if food staples and other items are not available. In this legislation the Government has taken steps to protect the people of New South Wales while at the same time participating in a national movement to protect all Australians from offences involving the deliberate contamination of goods. I commend the bill to the House.

Debate adjourned on motion by Mr Oakeshott.

Bill introduced and read a first time.

Mr E. T. PAGE (Coogee - Minister for Local Government) [9.22 p.m.]: I move:

That this bill be now read a second time.

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It gives me great pleasure to introduce the Local Government Amendment (Ecologically Sustainable Development) Bill, which aims to improve environmental protection at the local government level by reforming the state of the environment reporting requirements and promoting the principles of ecologically sustainable development. It is the Government’s policy that councils be required to prepare regular environmental reports and that they develop appropriate policies for nature conservation and protection of flora, fauna and ecosystems. Of course, I should stress at the outset that many councils in New South Wales are already actively involved in environmental protection and policy making and are leaders in their field. I would particularly like to highlight the Newcastle City Council’s achievements. That council organised the very successful pathways to sustainability conference earlier this year at which local government’s key role in promoting ecologically sustainable development was discussed. However, having said that, it must also be said that local government, as is the case with all spheres of government, need to do more to protect the local environment.

An integral part of the Government’s policy is ensuring that councils assist in the planning for environmentally sustainable urban development which will be more energy and resource efficient. This policy is in line with the Intergovernmental Agreement on the Environment which was signed by the governments of all States and Territories and the Australian Local Government Association in May 1992. The agreement recognises that local government has a responsibility for the development and implementation of locally relevant environmental policies within its jurisdiction in co-operation with other levels of government and the local community. The agreement also indicated that all signatories should ensure that the principles of ecologically sustainable development are incorporated in policy making and program implementation. The existing state of the environment reporting requirements for local government were the result of an amendment I moved when the Parliament debated the original Local Government Bill in 1993. While the amendment won the support of the non-aligned Independents, it was opposed by the then coalition Government, which argued it would cost councils too much to produce the reports.

However, it is now generally agreed that the state of the environment reporting requirements enacted in 1993 have worked well and have, in the main, achieved their purpose. To date, councils have produced state of the environment reports in 1994, 1995 and 1996. While many of these reports have been outstanding, others have been very poor. Reports have been of widely varying quality and there are a number of issues that have arisen as a result of various reviews, which point to the need for reform. A review of the first year’s state of the environment reports conducted for the Government in 1994 and a number of workshops on state of the environment reporting found that changes to the existing reporting requirements would improve local government reporting and provide better informed local decision-making processes as they affect the environment. In February 1997 I released a discussion paper titled "Reform of the State of the Environment Reporting Provisions of the Local Government Act" for comment by the public and councils. A total of 79 responses were received, including 51 from councils and seven from independent environmental protection groups.

The comments contained in the responses have assisted the Government to formulate the amendments before the House today. The amendments will incorporate the principles of ecological sustainable development throughout all key aspects of the Act to ensure that councils consciously adopt a fully ecological sustainable development focus when carrying out their functions. The principles of ecologically sustainable development are considered to be an essential element in the local, national and international strategies to confront and overcome the severe ecological problems we face in the late twentieth century. Honourable members will recall that in 1992 all spheres of government in Australia, including local government, committed themselves to the principles of ecologically sustainable development in the National Strategy for Ecologically Sustainable Development. Local government is in a key position as the local planning, approval and regulatory body to facilitate the implementation of those principles.

I will now briefly outline the specific amendments contained in the bill. The Local Government Act will be amended to categorically state that one of the purposes of the legislation is to require councils to have regard to the principles of ESD in carrying out their responsibilities. The environmental protection role of councils will be bolstered by introducing in the councils’ charter a duty to properly manage, protect, restore, enhance and conserve the environment in a manner consistent with the principles of ecologically sustainable development. This will be supplemented by a requirement for councils to consider the principles of ESD when exercising their approval powers. This is significant because matters subject to council approval such as the management of waste, the use
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of community land or the operation of a caravan park can have a significant effect both in the short and long term on the environment. There is a need to ensure that councils give thorough and informed consideration to the principles of ESD when planning their policies and programs for the coming year.

Although the Act currently requires each council’s management plan to promote ESD it does not provide a clear direction on how it should be applied. The Act will therefore be amended to require councils to include in their management plans information on activities to properly manage, protect, restore, enhance and conserve the environment which are consistent with and promote the principles of ecologically sustainable development. By including the ecologically sustainable development principles in the draft management plan, it is expected that councils will apply those principles throughout all their activities, not merely those that are formally nominated as environmental protection. For the first time a definition of ecologically sustainable development will be included in the Local Government Act.

The definition will be consistent with that contained in section 6 of the Protection of the Environment Administration Act in terms of implementing the precautionary principle; intergenerational equity; conservation of biological diversity and ecological integrity and improved valuation and pricing of environmental resources. The consistent wording of the preceding amendments will create linkages throughout the Act between a council’s environmental charter, its approval function, its management planning process, its annual reporting process and its state of the environment report in relation to the principles of ecologically sustainable development.

It will help to develop a strategic whole-of-council approach toward the recognition of ecologically sustainable development and will create a framework within which a council will be better able to identify and more importantly respond positively to environmental problems in its area. I will now turn to the more general changes to environmental reporting at the local level. The current section 428(2)(c) of the Local Government Act specifies 10 themes which councils must address in their state of the environment reports. These include areas of environmental sensitivity, important wildlife and habitat corridors and threatened species and any recovery plans.

However, many councils have indicated that they experienced difficulties with using the 10 themes as a base for reporting on the environment in their first state of the environment reports. Reasons given included that the themes were vague, the themes overlapped or the themes were incomplete. The Government accepts these concerns. These 10 themes will be replaced by a requirement to report on eight environmental sectors recommended by the Environment Protection Authority in 1995. These sectors consist of land, air, water, biodiversity, waste, noise and Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal heritage in the local government area. Reports will also need to detail relevant environmental management plans and special projects as well as the environmental impact of council activities.

Councils have broadly indicated a preference for this format. It is easier for the community and council management to understand and reduce the overlap inherent in the existing themes. The format is also more consistent with that used in the New South Wales state of the environment report, which will assist the goal of greater integration. One of the key issues raised during the consultation process was the frequency of state of the environment reports. Many submissions argued in favour of less frequent reporting while many other argued in favour of the status quo. The Government has decided that annual state of the environment reporting will be continued. However, councils will not be required to continually produce a completely new state of the environment report every year. Going back to square one every 12 months would represent a waste of resources.

A state of the environment report should be an evolving document, reflecting change at the local level including any change in the quality of the environment or change in the council’s policy response to solving environmental problems. It is therefore recognised that, in some cases, state of the environment reports may only be marginally different from year to year. Councils will be required to produce comprehensive state of the environment reports incorporating the necessary baseline and background information every four years. These will be required to be prepared within 12 months of the election of every new council. This will ensure that the council’s first management plan after each general election includes its comprehensive state of the environment report.

However, to ensure that a meaningful annual reporting structure is maintained, councils will also be required to issue annual supplementary state of the environment reports. These will outline any relevant changes in the local environment that occurred over the previous year, detail new policy responses proposed for the ensuing year and report
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on the achievement of environmental performance targets. By ensuring the state of the environment report is better linked to the annual management planning process, it is expected that these changes will help councils to focus on developing annual strategic responses to better respond to the environmental changes in their areas.

In adopting these new reporting arrangements, the Government has recognised that many significant local environmental changes can and do occur very rapidly. Such changes often result from the development process. The maintenance of an annual reporting and management planning requirement will ensure that the council is able to identify environmental problems early and, where possible, prepare strategic responses to overcome those problems. The local community will be able to involve itself in that process in view of the requirement for the management plan to be publicly advertised. Another key feature of the reforms is that regional reporting will be encouraged where environmental issues are better addressed at that level. Appropriate regions could include environmental regions, for example, water catchments, bioregions and airsheds; regions which share a common feature, for example, the coast; administrative or organisational regions, for example, a regional organisation of councils or a regional waste board.

While the preparation of a regional report will not relieve an individual council of its obligation to prepare a local report, it is expected that the relevance and quality of the local report will improve as a result of the incorporation of regional information. These legislative changes to the state of the environment reporting requirements, the introduction of ecologically sustainable development principles into the Local Government Act and regional reporting will be supported by guidelines currently being finalised by my department. I have agreed to consult with the local government and shires associations and peak environment groups before these guidelines are finalised.

The guidelines will also include the structure to be used in the state of the environment reports. It is proposed to formally adopt the Pressure - State - Response reporting model. In brief this model considers three types of indicators to be considered in order. Firstly, there are the pressure indicators which describe activities that are believed to contribute to environmental stress. Secondly, there are the state indicators that describe the state or quality of the environment. Finally there are the response indicators that show the extent to which society, and particularly the council, is responding to environmental changes and concerns.

This is the model used in the New South Wales state of the environment report and its adoption will be in accordance with the objective of maximising consistency between the three levels of government in state of the environment reporting. I anticipate that the Local Government Amendment (Ecologically Sustainable Development) Bill 1997 and the associated reforms will assist councils in implementing policies that will help keep this State at the forefront of environmental reform and develop an ecologically sustainable society for ourselves and future generations. I commend the Bill to the House.

Debate adjourned on motion by Ms Ficarra.

Bill introduced and read a first time.

Mr E. T. PAGE (Coogee - Minister for Local Government), on behalf of Mr Whelan [9.37 p.m.]: I move:

That this bill be now read a second time.

This bill proposes to increase the number of part time members of the Motor Accidents Authority board from seven to a maximum of ten part-time members. Section 84 of the Motor Accidents Act 1988 provides for the constitution of the Motor Accidents Act board of directors. This section provides that the board is comprised of the general manager for the Motor Accidents Authority and seven part-time directors being appointed by the Governor on the recommendation of the Minister. Of the seven part-time directors, the Act provides that two are persons nominated or approved by licensed insurers and one is a person nominated by NRMA Limited. This means that there are four "non-prescribed" part-time director positions.

There have been a number of different approaches from interested parties to expand the number of part-time directors. In particular, it is felt that there should be room for more relevant community representation on the board. The standing committee on law and justice recommended in its interim report on the motor accidents scheme that one of the part-time directors should represent the interests of the seriously injured motor accident victims. The MAA’s corporate mission statement states the authority’s mission as being: to ensure that
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the citizens of New South Wales have a third party accident compensation scheme operated by competing licensed insurers which promotes recovery and provides fair, speedy and effective compensation to people injured in motor vehicle accidents at an affordable price.

The objectives of the motor accident scheme are to ensure maximum recovery and rehabilitation from injuries sustained in motor accidents and to provide proper care for the future needs of those with ongoing impairments and disabilities. The objectives also include keeping premiums affordable, whilst recognising that third-party policy injury insurance is compulsory for all owners of motor vehicles registered in New South Wales. Given these objectives, I believe that there is considerable merit in expanding the board to ensure an appropriate mix of representatives.

For example, it has been suggested that people severely injured in motor vehicle crashes should be represented on the board. Such a representative could be chosen, for instance, by consultation with Paraquad, the Australian Quadriplegic Association and the Brain Injury Association. In addition, it has been suggested that an additional person with expertise in medical and allied health and rehabilitation matters could also appropriately be appointed to the board. It has also been suggested that the Bar Association should be represented on the board.

These additional positions will allow greater flexibility in providing broader representation on the board. The greater involvement of community representatives is in keeping with the thrust of the interim report of the Legislative Council Standing Committee on Law and Justice, which emphasised the need for greater community consultation by the MAA. The bill provides for a maximum of 10 part-time directors and a minimum of seven directors. It is not considered appropriate to prescribe the additional three positions. This will also provide more flexibility when considering appropriate community representation. I commend the bill to the House.

Debate adjourned on motion by Mr Smith.

Bill introduced and read a first time.

Mr E. T. PAGE (Coogee - Minister for Local Government), on behalf of Mr Whelan [9.42 p.m.]: I move:

That this bill be now read a second time.

The Government is introducing a bill to reform the law in relation to sea-carriage documents and to include electronic trading. The objects of the bill are to update the law in relation to rights of action under bills of lading, to extend the law to sea waybills and ship’s delivery orders, and to provide for the law to apply to paperless transactions involving the electronic exchange of data. The current statutory provisions relating to bills of lading are contained in the Sale of Goods Act 1923 and are based on an 1855 imperial model. The advent of modern technology and developments in commercial and legal practices have led to a need to revise the law, which impacts on overseas trade.

The bill conforms with uniform legislation agreed to by the Standing Committee of Attorneys General, whose members have agreed to implement the proposed legislation as soon as practicable. For the information of honourable members, a bill of lading is a formal document issued by, or on behalf of, a carrier of goods by sea to the person - usually known as the shipper or consignor - with whom the carrier has contracted for the carriage of goods. A bill of lading is also a receipt for the goods shipped, evidence of the terms of a contract of carriage between the shipper and the carrier, and a document of title to the goods shipped.

At common law, a buyer of shipped goods - the consignee or endorsee of a bill of lading - is generally unable to sue the carrier for breach of contract if the goods were lost or damaged in the course of shipment. The reason for this is that the buyer is not a party to the contract of carriage. The existing legislative provisions contained in part 5A of the Sale of Goods Act 1923 confer on the consignee of goods named in a bill of lading and every endorsee of a bill of lading, to whom the property passes, the same rights of action and liabilities in respect of the goods, as if they were a party to the contract of carriage.

However, the provisions contained in part 5A do not adequately provide for the changes that have taken place in this area of the law. For example, at the time the existing provisions relating to bills of lading legislation were enacted, bulk cargoes were largely unknown. Thus, there is no provision enabling a buyer of a portion of a cargo to sue the carrier if the cargo is lost or destroyed. The reason for this is that the buyer has no title in any goods, because their particular portion of the goods was unascertained within the bulk of the cargo.

The bill repeals the existing part 5A and provides for new, updated provisions within the proposed new Act to overcome such shortcomings.
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The bill impacts on four principal areas, as follows. First, title to sue is affected. Currently under the Sale of Goods Act provisions, the right of a consignee or endorsee to sue upon a bill of lading is restricted to when property in the goods has passed upon or by reason of such consignment or endorsement. The crucial link between the transfer of contractual rights from the consignor to consignee and the time when property in the goods passes creates difficulty in circumstances where the property either does not pass at all, for example goods are lost or destroyed in transit, or passes independently of the transfer of the bill of lading.

Part 2 removes the requirement that property pass upon, or by reason of consignment or endorsement of the bill. Rather, the right of suit under the contract of carriage will be held by the lawful holder of the bill of lading as if he or she had been a party to that contract. Part 3 also provides for the transfer of contractual liabilities under the contract of carriage. Second, the bill extends the law to sea waybills and ships' delivery orders. Sea waybills are contracts between the shipper of the goods and the carrier providing for the carrier to deliver the goods to the buyer or consignees. There is no contract between the consignee and the carrier. Ships’ delivery orders are almost identical to bills of lading, except that they are issued after shipment. Consequently, the buyer does not enjoy the benefits of the rights given to holders of bills of lading by legislation.

Part 2 allows the transfer of contractual rights from the shipper to the consignee named in a sea waybill or the person to whom the carrier is instructed to deliver the goods under the waybill. It also confers upon the person entitled to delivery in accordance with an undertaking contained in a ship’s delivery order such contractual rights against the carrier as are contained in the terms of the undertaking. Third, the bill applies to sea-carriage documents that are in the form of data messages in the same way as it applies to a written sea-carriage document.

Finally, part 4 seeks to improve the evidentiary status of a bill of lading. Part 4 provides that a bill of lading, representing goods which have been shipped or received for shipment on board a vessel and in the hands of the lawful holder, is conclusive evidence against the carrier of the shipment or receipt. Further, such bill of lading is prima facie evidence against the carrier in favour of the shipper that the goods have been shipped, or in the case of a received-for-shipment bill of lading, that they have been received for shipment.

The reforms have a beneficial impact on three areas. From a legal point of view, they enhance the contractual position of Australian traders and improve the evidentiary status of the bill of lading. Business and consumers will benefit as the reforms will result in greater certainty and also accommodate commercial developments in the shipping industry. The bill also recognises the ever-increasing role of electronic trade. Finally, the bill conforms with international standards and is similar to reforms taken by the United Kingdom and New Zealand and a number of Australia’s trading partners, including Japan, the People’s Republic of China, Thailand and Taiwan. I commend the bill to the House.

Debate adjourned on motion by Mr Jeffery.

Bill introduced and read a first time.

Mr E. T. PAGE (Coogee - Minister for Local Government), on behalf of Mr Knight [9.50 p.m.]: I move:

That this bill be now read a second time.

This bill will replace the Co-operation Act 1923, which was innovative in its day, but, despite frequent amendments over the years, has become outdated. The draft bill was tabled by my colleague the Minister for Police on 27 June. The parliamentary recess has allowed for further exposure of the Government’s proposals for the modernisation of the law relating to co-operative housing societies and Starr-Bowkett societies. One of the key objectives of the legislation is to provide flexibility for those organisations to continue to provide assistance to New South Wales citizens to achieve home ownership in a market which has changed markedly since 1923. This has been achieved by taking a less prescriptive approach to the objects and powers of societies with adequate safeguards applied through the application of prudent operating standards and effective supervision modelled to a significant extent upon the financial institutions scheme. The bill also achieves consistency with the Corporations Law through the adoption or application of provisions of that law to these co-operative housing bodies.

The bill outlines the functions of the New South Wales Financial Institutions Commission - FINCOM - which is to have continuing responsibility for administration of the Act and for
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the effective supervision of co-operative housing bodies. These functions are consistent with FINCOM’s role as the State supervisory authority under the financial institutions scheme for the supervision of building societies, credit unions and friendly societies. The functions have many similarities also to the functions which FINCOM has carried out since 1992, when it was given the functions of the registrar under the 1923 Act in relation to co-operative housing societies. FINCOM can now assume responsibilities for supervising Starr-Bowkett societies and certain associations presently undertaken by the Registrar of Co-operatives within the Department of Fair Trading. FINCOM will continue to provide a public office for the registration of co-operative housing bodies and their rules and other documents.

It will provide facilities for inspecting and searching those records by the public. FINCOM will oversee the compliance by societies and their officers with provisions of the Act and the standards by means of monitoring returns and other information coming to it through the administration of the legislation. FINCOM will also have certain powers of intervention which are also modelled on the financial institutions code. These powers include obtaining information and evidence through inspection, investigating and inquiring, placing a society under direction, suspending operations of a society, appointing an administrator, controlling advertising and having the power to arrange an orderly exit of a society from the industry by directing the society to transfer its engagements or ordering its winding up. The Act will provide for the review of decisions made by FINCOM in the exercise of those functions at the request of any person affected by those decisions. The use of these review provisions will not affect the person’s ability to have the matter reviewed by the court.

A Starr-Bowkett society will continue to have as its traditional objects the raising, by the subscription of its members, of a fund for making loans by ballot to its members upon the security of a mortgage over freehold or leasehold land. A co-operative housing society has as its object assisting members and other persons to achieve home ownership. The society is to have all of the powers of a natural person to carry out that broad object, subject to any limitation in the Act, the society’s rules or any standard. The standards will require a society to identify the risks associated with its operations and develop appropriate procedures and policies to manage those risks. The standards may require a society to consult with FINCOM before engaging in any new initiatives. Co-operative housing societies will be prohibited from raising money on deposits and will be required to observe certain restraints on borrowings which may conflict with its obligations to the Treasurer under any government guarantee or under any conditions applicable to borrowings from specified government sources.

There are no significant changes to the corporate structure and governance of these bodies. A society is a body corporate with perpetual succession. To facilitate adoption of rules by members, model rules will be