Standing Committee on Social Issues

Debate resumed from 28 August 2008.

The Hon. IAN WEST [3.05 p.m.]: The extensive and ambitious terms of reference of this inquiry were given to the Standing Committee on Social Issues by the Minister for Aboriginal Affairs, the Hon. Paul Lynch, in September 2007, and we are now in the process of compiling our final report for presentation to the House in the next few weeks. The committee members were: me as chair, the Hon. Trevor Khan as deputy chair, the Hon. Greg Donnelly, the Hon. Marie Ficarra, Dr John Kaye and the Hon. Michael Veitch. During the first half of the inquiry we received 74 submissions. We heard from 111 witnesses and conducted eight days of hearings, including a public forum at Bidwell and hearings at Kempsey, Dubbo, Nowra and Redfern. I not only thank the inquiry participants for their valuable contribution but also place on record my thanks for the quality, sincerity and integrity of the submissions from indigenous elders, from service providers and from organisations who had the interests of this inquiry at heart.

The issues examined related to the fundamental nature of service provision, the need to measure outcomes accurately, sufficient program funding, and the employment of, and support for, indigenous people. The committee highlights many good policies and programs, and the genuine commitment by those many organisations I have mentioned. On behalf of the committee, I thank Rachel Simpson, Victoria Pymm, Glenda Baker, Elizabeth Galton and Teresa Robinson for their hard work and the forensic way they went about ensuring that the evidence, and the quality of the evidence, was presented in a very lengthy and expansive interim report that goes to some 318 pages. As I have indicated, we focused on the broad themes of measuring outcomes, coordinating service delivery, partnerships in service delivery, funding, employment monitoring and training Aborigines.

The witnesses before the inquiry made it very clear that in many ways they continue to dance with strangers. Over many decades numerous inquiries have been held and they have talked to many people, yet no-one seems to be connecting with them, listening to them or hearing their concerns. Although Aboriginal people are optimistic, they still feel they may not be heard despite people having the best of intentions. We have now reached the stage of consulting with the Department of Aboriginal Affairs and other government departments because it is apparent that funding is inadequate and more work is needed. Also, regionalisation must be considered in detail because Aboriginal communities raised concerns about decisions being made at higher, bureaucratic levels without involving those at local and regional levels. They expressed concern about what appeared to be a one-size-fits-all attitude.

It is encouraging that people appear to have the best of intentions: they want to do the right thing by closing as soon as possible the lifetime expectancy gap of 17 years between Aboriginal people and non-Aboriginal people. However, committee members have lingering concerns that their aims will not be achieved. We hope that in our final report we will come to grips with how government departments and Aboriginal communities at regional and local levels can come together as genuine equal partners. At present, it appears that Aboriginal communities feel they are not being taken seriously. They believe there is tokenism, paternalism and that, despite the good intentions, their concerns are not being taken genuinely.

Federal funding is an issue. Aboriginal communities exist across the length and breadth of New South Wales, in urban, regional and remote areas. However, the majority of Aboriginal people live in urban areas. Only a minority live in rural and remote areas. I was extremely encouraged by the quality of the people who gave expert advice. I was impressed also by the intensity of interest among committee members and their wish to bring the inquiry to a successful conclusion. At the end of this month we will present the final report, and hopefully we can assist in a meaningful way the Government and the indigenous community in closing the insidious lifetime expectancy gap of 17 years between Aboriginal people and non-Aboriginal people. I commend the report to the House.

The Hon. MARIE FICARRA [3.16 p.m.]: I am proud to be the Liberal Party representative on the Standing Committee on Social Issues inquiry into overcoming indigenous disadvantage, which aims to close the lifetime expectancy gap between Aboriginal people and non-Aboriginal people that is currently estimated at 17 years. The committee examined the impact on the current lifetime expectancy gap of the following factors: environmental health, such as water, sewage and waste; health and wellbeing; education; employment; housing; incarceration and the criminal justice system; and other infrastructure.

The committee assessed a number of significant initiatives such as the Federal Government intervention in the Northern Territory; opportunities for strengthening cultural resilience within Aboriginal communities in New South Wales, with a focus on language, cultural identity, economic development and self-determination; and the experiences of the outcome of the Council of Australian Governments Murdi Paaki trial and other COAG trials across Australia. The committee received 74 submissions, heard from 119 witnesses and conducted eight days of hearings, including a public forum at Bidwill and site visits to Kempsey, Dubbo, Nowra, and Redfern. I wish to acknowledge the goodwill and expertise offered to our committee by indigenous elders, representatives, service providers and organisations.

Unless an effective relationship is built with the indigenous community, current programs and services will continue to fail to address a substantial level of disadvantage experienced by Aboriginal people. Providing services in partnership with Aboriginal people, design to implementation, has been a key concern for participants to this inquiry. The amount of Federal funding allocated to New South Wales needs to be addressed, as current levels do not correlate with the fact that the majority of indigenous people reside in our State. Further analysis is required of the effectiveness and assessment of funding programs that are temporary and intermittent in nature. Mechanisms for improving reporting and accountability processes for indigenous community organisations need to be developed further.

I turn to some of the committee's recommendations, addressing as a matter of urgency the improved levels of funding for services to reduce the incidence of child sexual abuse, including the long overdue implementation of the interagency plan in response to the "Breaking the Silence" report. The methodology used to record the incidence of child sexual abuse in Aboriginal communities must be improved. It is acknowledged that the ability to address family violence and child sexual abuse issues is impeded by the high level of underreporting of these incidents in Aboriginal communities. This problem needs to be overcome in consultation with these communities.

Consideration will also be given to the level of government support for Aboriginal police officers, Aboriginal community liaison offices, and early intervention programs targeted at male offenders. The committee will further consider the effective provision of essential services, including water, sewerage and waste collection in Aboriginal communities that are not serviced by local government. The committee acknowledged the importance of communication, and found that the provision of accessible Internet services to Aboriginal communities needs to be addressed.

A key determinant of life expectancy is the health status of indigenous persons and their communities. The committee will examine the need for more comprehensive measurement of health outcomes for indigenous people. The adequacy of training and scholarships for indigenous health workers needs prioritising. With regard to transportation, the committee will consider the need for a coordinated approach to identify communities' transport requirements and to tailor additional services to meet those needs. The lack of driver training programs aimed at assisting members of the Aboriginal community to obtain drivers licences is recognised as a significant limitation with regard to indigenous employment outcomes.

To help support and strengthen families in Aboriginal communities, opportunities to bolster existing men's and women's groups, and appropriate programs to assist parents, particularly young parents, need to be addressed and supported. The committee noted that there has been some improvement in the literacy and numeracy levels of Aboriginal students in New South Wales. However, we remain concerned that these levels require significant improvement if indigenous students are to meet the national benchmarks. We felt it important for indigenous people to establish links with family and community, and with culturally appropriate mentoring programs, as an effective way to encourage students in their education. The importance of employing indigenous staff as teachers and role models is apparent. However, there is a need to address the attainment levels of current and future students so that this can occur.

It is evident from employment statistics that current policies and/or initiatives have not been enough to make substantial inroads into indigenous unemployment. The committee will examine the reasons for this, including limited time frames, education levels and early disengagement of indigenous students in the education process. The important role played by indigenous elders and their communities in providing support for indigenous employment and youth programs was clear to committee members. The building of trust and respect between indigenous communities, government and prospective employers is critical to the provision of indigenous employment opportunities in the long term.

Changes to the Community Development Employment Projects Scheme, the Structured Training and Employment Program, and the job compacts initiative are all relatively new. The committee will revisit these schemes when the job compacts are finalised and data is available on their initial impact and employment outcomes. A vital issue in addressing indigenous disadvantage is the availability of affordable housing and the equitable distribution of funds, and the coordination of programs for social housing in New South Wales between urban, regional and rural areas. There is a need to address better the unmet housing needs of indigenous people, most of whom live along our coastline and in urbanised centres. Overcrowding is a fundamental problem within the indigenous community. There continues to be a pressing need for various providers and funding programs to work together strategically to provide affordable, appropriate housing for indigenous people, particularly where there has been local community participation in the housing design and delivery process. Funding for, and the provision of, community training for property maintenance needs to be addressed.

Of concern to the committee was the evidence of juvenile justice diversions being less likely to be granted to Aboriginal young offenders than to non-Aboriginal young offenders. The wellbeing of Aboriginal offenders with a mental health disorder who are incarcerated due to a lack of adequate mental health services needs to be addressed urgently. Clearly, there are many significant issues of concern in overcoming indigenous disadvantage. Many well-intentioned committees have preceded this committee, so indigenous communities have a right to be cynical. In light of committee members' bipartisan and sincere approach to our task, we trust that the Government will respect the manner in which we have gone about our inquiry and will adopt and implement as soon as possible our final recommendations, which are due at the end of November 2008.

I thank the Chair of the Standing Committee on Social Issues, the Hon. Ian West, for his patience, enthusiasm and dedication to the task. I also thank my fellow committee members—the Hon. Trevor Khan, the Hon. Greg Donnelly, the Hon. Michael Veitch and Dr John Kaye—for their good-natured and genuine multi-partisan approach to achieving workable outcomes, arrived at in consultation with indigenous elders and communities from across New South Wales. Importantly, I acknowledge the professionalism of our parliamentary clerks Rachel Simpson, Victoria Pymm, Glenda Baker, Elizabeth Galton and Teresa Robinson, as well as our Hansard reporters, including those who travelled with the committee to site visits and hearings. I thank them all sincerely for their hard work and commitment to the conduct of the inquiry and the production of the committee's report.

I wish to reiterate some of the committee chair's comments. We approached this inquiry knowing the frustrations of all Australians, of previous governments and of all the committees that have looked into indigenous disadvantage. It was quite moving to hear from the elders and from community groups that are sincere about achieving effective and long-lasting outcomes so that finally we can put behind us the disgraceful situation whereby indigenous people have a life expectancy that is 17 years shorter than that of the rest of the community. It is totally unacceptable that some indigenous communities do not have the basic infrastructure and access to water and sewerage that the rest of the population simply takes for granted. I thank my fellow committee members and all the parliamentary staff who assisted us. I hope we can come back with some solid recommendations that will be adopted by the Government.

The Hon. MICHAEL VEITCH [3.26 p.m.]: It was fascinating to work on this inquiry with other members of the Standing Committee on Social Issues. All our work was done in very good faith, and on more than one occasion whilst the inquiry was hearing evidence you could look around the room and see tears in the eyes of a few members. Some of the evidence we heard was quite moving—in fact, there was no way you could not be moved by it. Some of the site visits were also quite moving, as we heard about the circumstances of individuals and their lifestyles. By far the biggest highlight for me on the committee's site visits was that the people we spoke to were in favour of circle sentencing. It is obviously a well-received process that the community has a great deal of faith in. While hearing the evidence it was difficult to find positives—although most departmental witnesses said that everything their organisations did was fantastic—but it was clear that circle sentencing is a positive, and something that needs to be replicated and enhanced wherever possible.

The committee is capably chaired by the Hon. Ian West, who has a great deal of passion and compassion for this issue and for the circumstances of indigenous people in New South Wales. I assure members who may not have had a chance to read the report as tabled that it is outstanding. The secretariat has done an outstanding job putting the words together. At our deliberative meeting when we adopted the report there was unanimous support for the secretariat's endeavours in putting the words on paper. It was an absolutely outstanding effort. I also congratulate the Hansard staff. The committee held some public forums. How the Hansard staff were able to hear the words spoken at one particular forum is beyond me. I could not hear the words—and I was sitting beside the people speaking! For Hansard to hear and record the words that are spoken is just amazing. Again, I congratulate the Hansard staff.

I draw members' attention to chapter 10 of the interim report, which deals with the summary of issues for consideration in the substantive report. One of the issues highlighted throughout the evidence was the way in which outcomes are measured. When moneys are granted by a government to non-government organisations and indigenous communities there is often a disparity between the outcomes that the Government requires to measure the success of the funding and the outcomes that the community expects. At the committee's subsequent hearings we will try to establish whether there is common ground there, so that we can find the middle of the road. It is quite obvious that the outcomes that governments expect are far removed from the outcomes that indigenous communities expect.

Further, we have heard on countless occasions that communities are sick and tired of short-term pilot funding programs whereby funding is allocated for six or twelve months and then the organisation or the community has to go through the whole process of reapplying for the funds for a similar project. The evidence suggested that with tenure of funding for a period of three years, for instance, there would be far greater social and economic outcomes than are realised from short-term pilot funding programs. I do think that the committee heard too many witnesses say that they supported short-term pilot funding programs—I cannot remember any. Short-term pilot funding programs, as opposed to long-term funding, will be one of the issues that the committee will deal with in its final report, and it could well be that we find a silver bullet to fix the problem. I am sure that the chair would welcome that; he keeps talking about the magic bullet.

The committee has decided to take on board also coordinated service delivery. Many earlier reports discussed coordinated service delivery in Aboriginal communities yet there has been no resolution. The committee heard the concern of different communities about the objectives of one government department conflicting with those of other departments. In a few places we heard about the conflict between the Department of Community Services and the Department of Education and Training. There was a positive relating to coordinated service delivery, however, and that was with Murdi Paaki. At Dubbo the committee heard suggestions from a number of people about how coordinated service delivery could be fixed constructively. Housing and housing affordability is highlighted in the report. The committee heard of issues relating to housing stock and overcrowding, and how overcrowding impacts on a number of government departments—whether it be the Department of Education and Training, the Department of Community Services or the New South Wales Police Force.

Coordinated service delivery from the focus point of housing is a classic example of fragmentation whereby outcomes are not being achieved and we tend to fund a single issue that impacts on a range of other areas. Earlier I referred to Murdi Paaki. When we inquired further the issue of partnerships in service delivery was identified; that is, how governments, non-government organisations, and the indigenous community can work better to deliver efficient outcomes for the communities they serve. We heard that some people prefer to be referred to as Aboriginal rather than indigenous, while others prefer to be called indigenous rather than Aboriginal. Obviously the issue of terminology must also be addressed. When it visited a number of Aboriginal medical services the committee heard evidence about lifetime expectancy in regard to health and health services.

Pursuant to standing orders business interrupted and set down as an order of the day for a future day.