Debate resumed from an earlier hour.

Mr CRITTENDEN (Wyong - Parliamentary Secretary) [12.05 p.m.]: This is a most timely motion because traditional banking services are
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important mainstays of the community. It is interesting to note that the honourable member for Murrumbidgee, who moved a competing motion for urgent consideration yesterday, has not spoken in the debate because when the major banks pulled their branches out of Coleambally that community considered that it did not have an appropriate banking structure. Bendigo Bank, a regional bank in Victoria, in collaboration with the Coleambally community, formed a company structure guaranteed by several citizens and organisations in the Coleambally community, and as a consequence the Coleambally Community Bank was formed.

The bank employs five staff, provides domestic and business banking services and is a focus for that community. In addition, half of the profits from banking there are retained in the town and the other half goes to the Bendigo Bank. The partnership is working well for the community and I had hoped that members of the National Party would take an interest similar to that taken by many Country Labor members who have spoken in this debate and examine this model and others to cater to the needs of country New South Wales. The full brunt of what Westpac has done is set out in an article in the Australian Financial Review of 16 October by Ivor Ries, with obvious involvement from David Morgan, Managing Director of Westpac. The figures are disturbing but the article gets to the nub of the problem. It stated:

Morgan [declared] that he’ll retire 3,000 workers and shrink 200 rural branches to slash at least $300 million from the bank’s $3 billion cost base . . . Most of Morgan’s $300 million cost target will come from staff reductions and rural branch downsizing.

Quite clearly, that will take a lot of money out of circulation in country areas and that is why rural communities are most upset. Other parts of the article also cause concern. An example is given by Ries that is obviously based on information provided by Westpac. The article states:

. . . five State-based business loan processing centres will be reduced to two (in Melbourne and Sydney) and 11 separate call centres will be reduced to four or five over the next two years.

With the reduction in the number of call centres, the banks will be reducing the whole business loan process operation. They have not even looked at the possibility of locating these facilities in regional areas throughout New South Wales and the rest of Australia. Many country areas where there might have been a call centre will not only miss out on a branch structure in local towns but also call centres, which represents a pretty critical loss of service and employment opportunities to regional centres in New South Wales.

Mr TORBAY (Northern Tablelands) [12.10 p.m.]: I am pleased to debate an issue that deals with the minimum level of services provided to communities. This issue has been debated by many people in regional New South Wales over a considerable period. I acknowledge the efforts of the honourable member for Tamworth and more recently the honourable member for Dubbo in drawing attention to this issue. This motion deserves broad support. I, in common with the member for Tamworth, have some difficulty with paragraph (4), which is totally open to interpretation. That part of the motion highlights the political nature of the intent of the motion to shift blame from one government to another.

I believe that if the thrust of the motion is intended to deal with the minimum level of service provided to communities that is a matter that governments would be well served to take on board themselves. It is not necessary to examine which side of politics has taken the rationalisation process most to heart, because it has cut across all political parties and all levels of government. I remind this particular New South Wales Government of the rationalisation that occurred in the power industry in regional New South Wales as well as in many other areas such as forestry.

The rationalisation of government services has had a big impact on regional New South Wales. While honourable members may look closely at banks and the impact on country communities of the rationalisation of banking services, they should also consider minimum levels of service provided by government. One would not have to look beyond Coalition Government rationalisation of the provision of health services, which is ongoing and has resulted in the closure of hospitals in regional communities, for examples of what I am talking about.

Honourable members can throw rocks on the roofs of the banks and continue to get on the political bandwagon by saying, "Isn’t this dreadful for regional communities", but the issue really cuts across more than banks and other private sector organisations. Minimum levels of service are something for which regional communities have been fighting over a considerable period. I would like to see bipartisan support for a decade of commitment to statewide planning of regional services in New South Wales that really pushes something about which honourable members of this Parliament can have considerable influence.

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Although I agree with the broad thrust of the motion, it really is a symbolic gesture. In saying that Westpac and other major banks need to look at the social impact of rationalisation and their responsibilities from a social perspective to communities across New South Wales, we should apply the same principles to ourselves. As I mentioned earlier, the honourable member for Tamworth has been pushing that line for a considerable period. I join with him in a call for governments of both political persuasions at State and Federal level, as well as politicians from all political parties, to consider instituting a decade of bipartisan commitment to statewide planning.

If that were to happen, while we continue to raise concerns about the private sector and organisations that rationalise services from time to time, we might also look at government services in the same light to make sure that the provision of minimum levels of service takes into account factors such as employment opportunities in the area and flow-on effects. I highlight concerns in my electorate in relation to NorthPower rationalisation and the concerns that are felt in relation to the provision of health services. Having expressed my views on health services rationalisation, I also acknowledge that corrective action has been taken. In that regard, I acknowledge the efforts made by the Minister for Health.

It is important to be aware that regional communities want police officers and doctors as part of the provision of a minimum level of service. I acknowledge that banks have been rationalising, but I also recognise that governments have been doing so. Country members of Parliament have been raising the issue for a considerable time. Regrettably, their efforts have not crystallised into a genuine policy of statewide planning. Although I am very concerned that the banks seem to have lost their focus on their social obligations to communities, I have to say that I would certainly like to see governments of all political persuasions and at all levels address the minimum level of service issue so that honourable members can be less hypocritical when these matters are debated in Parliament.

Mr BARTLETT (Port Stephens) [12.15 p.m.]: It is pleasing to see in the public gallery young people from Cessnock who are attending Parliament in company with the honourable member for Cessnock. I welcome them and hope they enjoy the debate. I do not intend to speak specifically about any bank closure in my electorate; rather, I will try to sum up the way in which the debate has proceeded over the last couple of days. What honourable members are really talking about is the ugly face of competition. It is possible to have competition that delivers good services to people, but debate on this motion centres on the idea of ugly competition in Australia and the effects of competition as they are being felt throughout New South Wales and the rest of Australia.

The reality is that bank staff in the rural areas of Australia and in the city are expendable, and that is the bottom line. Moreover, customers are also expendable. Banks do not need customers any more so banks can walk away from towns and country areas leaving the problems besetting local communities which honourable members who preceded me in this debate have described. Obviously the criterion is profit. Institutions cannot expect loyalty from their staff and their customers if they operate only in accordance with the bottom line of profit when dealing with country, regional and, more recently, city areas. Loyalty in all institutions is under threat currently.

It may seem strange that the member for Port Stephens, a boy from Newcastle, actually wants to draw an analogy between the rationalisation of banking services and what has happened with South Sydney Leagues Club. The reaction to banking services is really the same as the feeling many people have expressed about South Sydney. The bigger picture is the treatment which people who live in country and regional areas of New South Wales have had to deal with during the past 10 or 15 years. The reason I am a member of Country Labor and currently working for those areas is that no-one ever seems to consider the social aspects of the ugly side of competition.

The problem confronting South Sydney is that the biggest media proprietors in the country, Murdoch and Packer, have decided to divide the spoils in the best interests of what used to be Australian Rugby League. It seems to me that the voice of Rugby League in New South Wales was not enough to prevent the underlying competition from coming through. The criteria were set and, unfortunately, South Sydney did not meet the criteria so it was dropped off the register. All that needs to be done in future is establish a new set of criteria, ignore tradition, emotion, dedication, loyalty and trust, and other clubs such as Newcastle Rugby League’s Knights could be given the flick just as easily as South Sydney was given the flick.

If there is no loyalty, the relationship breaks both ways. Country Labor is obviously moving towards rejecting the hard and ugly economic rationalism that has been apparent throughout the
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bush for the past ten years. That is not to say that no-one is interested in providing better services at a more competitive cost. However, the pure hardline economic rationalism that is around today is out of favour with Country Labor.

The people of Port Stephens resent what is happening to South Sydney and to banks in the name of someone else’s profits. Every person to whom I have spoken in Port Stephens is resentful of what is happening to South Sydney; there is absolutely no support for what is happening to South Sydney, or for the banks. That is the way that country New South Wales has been feeling for a decade. It leaves a bad taste in one’s mouth and a feeling of hopelessness in one’s stomach.

I turn now to the ugly face of competition, which is like a 100 metre running race; what you get is one winner and lots of losers. The losers are told not to worry, what counts is how one plays the game. Try to tell South Sydney that! All their traditions have gone out the window. We have competition in business and competition in schools, but the way that the education system is set up there are a few winners and many losers. The Drug Summit clearly indicated that children need to feel they are accepted, that they belong, and must have a high level of self-esteem in order to combat the taking of drugs which, it is claimed, make one feel good. By the time children reach high school age, they well know where they come in the pecking order. [Time expired.]

Mr ASHTON (East Hills) [12.20 p.m.]: The number of honourable members from both sides of the House who have spoken against bank closures announced by the Westpac Banking Corporation must be an indication to Westpac and to the "big four" banks, that they have lost the public relations debate absolutely. One after the other, members from both sides of this House have documented bank closures in their electorates and none has supported those closures. The honourable member for Cronulla acted as an apologist for the Coalition on banking matters.

When I applied to the Commonwealth Bank for my first loan in the mid-1970s I was knocked back, because Malcolm Fraser, then Prime Minister, had, overnight, doubled the amount one needed to have in one’s account before a loan could be granted. That meant that people like me who were young and trying to get their first loan were completely ruled out. Yet I had banked with the Commonwealth Bank since kindergarten. I was one of the kiddies who put 20¢ in the bank at school every week for about ten years. What thanks did I get for that when I went to the big bank for a loan? I was told not to bother, to go somewhere else. So I did, I went to the St George Building Society, which gave me a loan that I have appreciated ever since.

Bank closures across Australia have become a national disgrace. Perhaps a few years ago there was a case for the closure of the odd branch here or there, due to high rent, poor location, lack of size or superfluous space. But no longer; today, banks are closing to inflate the profits of shareholders. Banks in Australia continue to announce profits that would match the size of the gross domestic product of some small countries. The profits they are making are of Shylock proportions.

In the past three or four years a number of banks in my electorate have been closed. In Panania, the State Colonial Bank closed; in Revesby south, the very large State Colonial Bank closed and moved operations to a virtual shopfront branch on the other side of the railway line. Branches have closed in Padstow, and in East Hills the Commonwealth and State banks closed years earlier than the beginning of the bank closure race. They were bulldozed to make way for the railway line extension to Holsworthy - which was not unreasonable.

Now when I go into banks there is always a long queue, and staff have admitted to me that they are treading water and trying to keep up with the demand. Like most customers I would prefer to deal with a staff member, rather than a machine. Nothing offends me more than a voice on the end of the telephone saying, "Your call is important to us, we will be with you soon. Push button one" - or push button two, or three, or four. If I do not know what to do, I am instructed to push button five to speak to an operator.

[Interruption]

I am amazed when I finally get to speak to someone. I prefer to deal with people in banks. I am surprised that the honourable member for Port Macquarie has interjected, because this issue is more important to country and regional New South Wales than it is to Sydney. I can go to a bank on the other side of Revesby, but he cannot go from Port Macquarie to Wauchope or Lismore to do his banking. I take that back! It is the court jester from Coffs Harbour who interjected. I did not mean to defame the honourable member for Port Macquarie. It does not matter. The faces are different but the issues are the same in both electorates.

Mr Fraser: That is how much you know about the bush.

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Mr ASHTON: Maybe that is because the honourable member for Coffs Harbour does not make much of an impression. Along with most customers I prefer to deal with people, because not everyone can remember their personal identification number [PIN] to access automatic teller machines [ATMs]. If I cannot remember who is the member for Port Macquarie or Coffs Harbour, how can I remember my PIN number? The terms "rationalisation", "more efficiency", "stakeholders", and "upgrading services", all mean the same to me. They mean sacking people and replacing them with machines. Has a bank manager or a general manager ever queued at an ATM? I will bet they have not. They would get their personal assistants to do their banking for them. Ordinary Australians cannot expect anything like that service.

Today an inquiry is to be held into the alleged payment, or "cash for comment", that has embroiled some radio personalities and which arose because of the outing of an arrangement that the Australian banks sought to have to put a gloss on their activities before the people. Today’s debate is perhaps the community’s chance to tell the whole story. I remind honourable members that what we want in the suburbs, in the bush and in regional areas such as that allegedly represented by the honourable member for Coffs Harbour, is more banks for our buck. I commend the motion to the House.

Mr STEWART (Bankstown - Parliamentary Secretary) [12.25 p.m.]: I strongly support the urgency motion moved by the honourable member for Miranda. In doing so I clarify that today we are talking about the position that banks had in regard to their customers and how that position has changed. I acknowledge and support the bipartisan spirit of this motion. However, I point out that some members of the Opposition spoke about the laissez-faire policies that banks have and how they have allowed market forces to dictate outcomes. To a large degree banks are dictated to by their shareholders, but they also have a social responsibility.

In the past several years that social responsibility has been totally mitigated by banks which have treated their customers, the general Australian population, with absolute contempt and have deserted their traditional customer base in the pursuit of rationalisation gone mad. The latest headlines about bank closures indicate that Westpac Banking Corporation will close 80-odd branches, mostly in underprivileged regional country areas which deserve and need the infrastructure of a banking service. People will have to travel many miles to utilise a service elsewhere, but that does not stop the banks in their contemptuous approach to this laissez-faire market rationality.

The banks do not care about people. That is perplexing, given that the major banks have been strongly supported by people. Last October in this House strong concern was expressed by the Carr Government about closures that had occurred mainly in branches of the Commonwealth Bank in metropolitan Sydney and some regional areas. During that debate we heard that 190 New South Wales banks had closed down in the previous financial year. New South Wales experienced more branch closures than any other State.

That was an issue of great concern. In my local area the closure of Commonwealth Bank branches at Greenacre and Yagoona has had a devastating effect on the local shopping precincts and also on the community. Banks have to recognise that apart from pursuing a profit they have a solid infrastructure within a community. Often banks are the nucleus, the heart, of the business community. When that heart is taken out, the body dies.

The removal of Commonwealth Bank branches from Greenacre and Yagoona in October last year was done in a callous manner. Local residents, shopkeepers and even employees of the bank were given only a couple of weeks notice. As member for Lakemba I was part of a delegation which met with Mr Dick Perkins, the New South Wales Customer Service Manager for the Commonwealth Bank. That delegation included also Doug Shedden, former member for Bankstown; Michael Hatton, the Federal member for Blaxland; the mayor of Bankstown; a number of Bankstown councillors and other officials.

Dick Perkins listened to us for half an hour, then smiled and said that the decision had been made. He told us we would retain our Commonwealth Bank automatic teller machine at Greenacre, but he could not guarantee the same at Yagoona. The ATM was removed, without any notification, at 11.00 p.m. one evening just prior to Christmas, when it was most needed. That is the sort of stealth with which the Commonwealth Bank conducts its business activities. That is a matter of great concern to the local community. The Commonwealth Bank has made a profit of $1.9 billion, yet it continues to close branches, and jobs are being lost.

The same sort of thing is occurring with Westpac, which plans to cut 3,000 jobs. I commend the Minister for Fair Trading on the special plan that he has put to the Federal Government. I urge the Federal Government, and particularly the Minister
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for Financial Services and Regulation, Joe Hockey, to consider the plan, which simply asks for a specified level of banking services in rural and remote areas, a guaranteed level of face-to-face services, and a set number of transactions for people who receive government pensions and benefits. The Government is strongly supporting the people of New South Wales in that endeavour.

Mr GEORGE (Lismore) [12.30 p.m.]: Like every other member in this House I wish to voice my concerns about what is happening in rural New South Wales and in particular in the electorate of Lismore. I do not agree with the steps taken by the major banks, because they are cutting back on face-to-face services. Businesses have been built on that service, and to cut the number of branches in New South Wales is totally unacceptable.

Already Westpac has closed one branch at Kyogle, in my electorate. The Commonwealth and Westpac banks in my home town of Casino have also made cutbacks in staff numbers and have more or less regionalised their services to the city of Lismore. People are finding this very difficult to accept. However, it is typical of what is happening in New South Wales, not only with banks but also with government departments, both State and Federal. We are continually bombarded with cutbacks. Regional services are being taken out of our areas.

The honourable member for East Hills said that when we ring a government department or a bank today a voice tells us to press button one, two, three, four or five. But that is not the problem. The real problem is having to wait half an hour or an hour to get an answer. My electorate has lost many government services. Currently we face cutbacks in the forestry industry. Lismore was built on the timber industry, and these cutbacks have created a lot of heartache.

Only 12 months ago the Minister for Forestry opened a regional office in my home town of Casino. It has now been rationalised and jobs have been lost. Those highly paid jobs have been transferred to Coffs Harbour. That is typical of what is happening in country areas, and banks are following government departments. I am concerned that these moves by government departments and banks are dollar driven.

I hope that does not inflate the Sydney, Newcastle and Wollongong areas. Those services are needed in rural New South Wales. My National Party colleagues and I have already had a meeting with Westpac. Unfortunately, we have not been successful but we will continue to lobby that bank and the Commonwealth Bank. All the major banks are involved in this, but those two have caused the greatest concern in my electorate of Lismore.

Debated adjourned on motion by Mr Anderson.