Parliamentary Ethics Adviser

Suspension of standing orders agreed to.

Mr CARR (Maroubra - Premier, Minister for the Arts, and Minister for Ethnic Affairs) [3.31 p.m.], by leave: I move:

That:

(1) this House directs the Speaker to join with the President in appointing Mr Ken Robson to the position of Parliamentary Ethics Adviser;

(2) this position shall be established by way of a contract of employment for a term of 12 months, which may be renewed upon a further resolution being passed by both Houses;

(3) this position shall be held part time;

(4) the function of the Parliamentary Ethics Adviser shall be to advise any member of Parliament, when asked to do so by that member, on ethical issues concerning the exercise of his or her role as a member of Parliament, including the use of entitlements and potential conflicts of interest;

(5) the Parliamentary Ethics Adviser is to be guided in giving this advice by any code of conduct or other guidelines adopted by the House, whether pursuant to the Independent Commission Against Corruption Act or otherwise;

(6) the Parliamentary Ethics Adviser’s role does not include the giving of legal advice;

(7) the Parliamentary Ethics Adviser shall be required to keep records of advice given and the factual information upon which it is based;

(8) the Parliamentary Ethics Adviser shall be under a duty to maintain the confidentiality of information provided to him in that role and the advice given, but that the Parliamentary Ethics Adviser may make advice public if the member who requested the advice gives permission for it to be made public;

(9) this House shall only call for the production of records of the Parliamentary Ethics Adviser if the member to which the records relate has sought to rely on the advice of the Parliamentary Ethics Adviser or has given permission for the records to be produced to the House;

(10) the Parliamentary Ethics Adviser is to meet with the standing ethics committee of each House annually;

(11) the Parliamentary Ethics Adviser shall be required to report to the Parliament prior to the end of his annual term on the number of ethical matters raised with him, the number of members who sought his advice, the amount of time spent in the course of his duties and the number of times advice was given;

(12) the Parliamentary Ethics Adviser may report to the Parliament from time to time on any problems arising from the determinations of the Parliamentary Remuneration Tribunal that have given rise to requests for ethics advice and proposals to address these problems; and

(13) a message be sent requesting that the Legislative Council adopt a similar resolution.

The actions of members of Parliament are under scrutiny by the media, the public, the Auditor-General and the Independent Commission Against Corruption. Sometimes, however, the ethical obligations of members of Parliament are not clear-cut. It might be as basic an issue as to when to use official letterhead or a stamp allowance, or more difficult questions as to whether a conflict of interest arises in particular circumstances. This year the Government has taken a number of steps to resolve problems of this type. Both Houses of this Parliament have adopted a code of conduct which will guide members on ethical matters, and
Page 7891
amendments have been made to the Parliamentary Remuneration Act to ensure that a new clear, simple set of rules is established to govern parliamentary entitlements.

In addition, the Government proposed to appoint a Parliamentary Ethics Adviser to assist and advise members of Parliament in resolving ethical issues and problems. Currently, members have no independent source to which they can turn to obtain advice and the adviser will fill that gap. The need for ethical advice is not confined to members of Parliament. Other professional or business groups have already taken action to ensure that independent ethical advice is available, and the St James Centre for Business Ethics is one example. The Law Society also provides a professional ethics advice service that deals with such issues as conflict of interest and confidentiality.

Members of Parliament will benefit from the appointment of a Parliamentary Ethics Adviser. The position is part time, with payment based on the number of hours worked. It is proposed that the appointment will be for a period of 12 months, at the end of which it will be reassessed. The function of the Parliamentary Ethics Adviser will be to give advice on request. That may include advice on the use of entitlements and interpretation of the rules for those entitlements, and may cover issues relating to conflict of interest. The Parliamentary Ethics Adviser will be guided by the code of conduct adopted by the House and by any other guidelines which this House may choose to adopt. The function of the adviser will not include the giving of legal advice, and the motion covers the issue of confidentiality and the circumstances in which matters put to the ethics adviser can be reproduced in this House.

The Government is pleased that Mr Ken Robson has agreed to fulfil the position of Parliamentary Ethics Adviser if appointed by the Parliament. He meets all the appropriate requirements. He was the New South Wales Auditor-General from 1985 until his retirement in 1992. He is highly respected for his independence and ethics. Since his retirement he has acted as probity auditor for bodies such as South Australian Water and EnergyAustralia. His work as Auditor-General has given him a close and practical knowledge of the workings of Parliament and government. He is well experienced in examining issues relating to probity. His experience and understanding of the ethical issues of government will be a useful resource. I commend the motion to the House.

Mr COLLINS (Willoughby - Leader of the Opposition) [3.36 p.m.]: I congratulate the Premier on his selection of Mr Robson as the Government’s choice for the position of Parliamentary Ethics Adviser. When the Premier raised this matter with me yesterday he indicated the nature and duration of the job. We discussed the fact that the next 12 months or so will be a pioneering period for the person appointed to undertake this important task. On behalf of the Leader of the National Party and my colleagues I indicate that Ken Robson is a distinguished New South Wales public servant whose reputation is impeccable and whose service to this State is well known to many members of the House, especially those who worked with him during his time as Auditor-General of New South Wales from 1985 to 1992.

I was not canvassed on the detail of the motion moved by the Premier, but the most important part is the selection of Mr Robson as Parliamentary Ethics Adviser. During the next 12 months he will be charting new territory. Few people would have the qualifications and reputation that Mr Robson has to undertake that task. I hope that he is able to allay many of the concerns voiced in the community over recent years about the conduct of members of Parliament. This exercise is about building the reputation of the Parliament and, in many instances, restoring the reputation of the Parliament.

The task of the Parliamentary Ethics Adviser will take considerable work. It will take painstaking application not only by Mr Robson but by all members of Parliament. If the opportunity is well used it may be an important turning point in the perception of this Parliament by the people of New South Wales, given the very public attacks on this institution and its members in recent years. On behalf of the Opposition I wish Mr Robson well. I hope that he is able to bring to his new role the distinction he brought to the tasks he undertook previously on behalf of the people of New South Wales.

Mr NAGLE (Auburn) [3.39 p.m.]: As Chairman of the Standing Ethics Committee I join with the Leader of the Opposition in congratulating the Premier on the appointment of Ken Robson to the new position of Parliamentary Ethics Adviser. His appointment is part of the code of conduct of this House which was established as a result of the recommendations of two reports of the ethics committee. The code of conduct was a first for Australia and the appointment of the Parliamentary Ethics Adviser is also a first for Australia. The first
Page 7892
Parliament in Australia is leading the way. During the 12-month appointment the Parliamentary Ethics Adviser will meet with the Legislative Assembly Standing Ethics Committee, which I remind honourable members has three community members. The appointment of community members to the committee and the appointment of Mr Robson as Parliamentary Ethics Adviser is a step forward.

Mr Robson will be required to report to Parliament prior to the end of his term on any ethical matters raised with him, the number of members who have sought advice, the amount of time spent on his duties and the number of times advice has been given. That information will be appreciated, bearing in mind the work of ethics advisers in parliaments in Canada and the United States of America. The Parliamentary Ethics Adviser may report to the Parliament on matters he considers serious so that the Parliament may rectify and/or amend the code of conduct and deal with the issue he has raised. This appointment is a first for New South Wales and for Australia. I welcome Mr Ken Robson. The Standing Ethics Committee will enjoy working with him.

Mr HARTCHER (Gosford) [3.41 p.m.]: I draw the attention of the House and the Premier to paragraph (9) of the motion, which states:

(9) This House shall only call for the production of records of the Parliamentary Ethics Adviser if the member to which the records relate has sought to rely on the advice of the Parliamentary Ethics Adviser or has given permission for the records to be produced to the House.

In other words, the motion says that the Government, because it has the majority in this House, reserves to itself the right to apply to the Parliamentary Ethics Adviser for the record of any advice a member sought from him. The right to ask the ethics adviser to produce all records that relate to a member who has sought advice is not vested in the House, but in the Premier and the government of the day. The only protection a member has is the promise -

Mr Carr: You have misread it.

Mr HARTCHER: That is what paragraph (9) says. Do you deny it?

Mr Carr: The member triggers it by his own behaviour.

Mr HARTCHER: But the Premier will have the power to amend the motion at any time.

Mr Carr: So it doesn’t say what you claimed it said!

Mr HARTCHER: And you are so ethical and so principled you would never take advantage of that! You are the most unprincipled Premier this State has ever had. You are the most cynical person ever to occupy any position in this Chamber.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! The honourable member for Gosford will direct his remarks through the Chair. The Premier will have an opportunity to reply to the remarks of the honourable member for Gosford at the appropriate time.

Mr HARTCHER: The point is that the Premier cannot be trusted in relation to anything.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! The honourable member for Gosford will direct his remarks through the Chair.

Mr HARTCHER: The Premier cannot be trusted with anything. One hopes that the Parliamentary Ethics Adviser will be above partisan political considerations and that members of this House will be able to go to him with an assurance that advice sought from him and matters put to him will be sealed in secrecy. To get anyone to believe in the integrity of the Premier and the Government is a big ask. I place on record my personal concern about the Premier requiring the production of documents. The Premier reserves to himself, as he always does, the power to amend this motion at any time and vests in himself the power to ask for the record of any advice a member sought from or was given by the ethics adviser. The Opposition will expect a seal of secrecy to be placed over advice sought from and given by the Parliamentary Ethics Adviser, unless the member agrees to the release of that material. The coalition will wait to see whether the Premier abuses this power.

Dr MACDONALD (Manly) [3.45 p.m.]: As a member of the Standing Ethics Committee I support the motion. I shall examine the motion in detail, particularly the mechanism for reporting to the committee and to the House. I hope that will be an ongoing process. The appointment of an ethics adviser or commissioner was canvassed during the deliberations of the ethics committees of both Houses. It is important that there be external scrutiny of the codes of conduct and an external body or person from whom members of Parliament can seek advice. That is preferable to having one
Page 7893
ethics committee, which was one proposed model. I place on record my concern that the process involved in arriving at this point was extremely tortuous; the process was delayed and it was difficult. Unfortunately, the process also involved some interference. I remind honourable members that the ethics committee was established and the need for a code of conduct was negotiated by the Independents in 1994 -

Mr O’Farrell: With the Liberal Government.

Dr MACDONALD: - with the Liberal Government, at the time the current Independent Commission Against Corruption commissioner was appointed. The code of conduct took three years to develop and honourable members will remember the farcical likelihood of having two codes of conduct because of differences between the upper and lower Houses. The code of conduct arrived at by the lower House was subject to some criticism, but at least it was a document with which we could work. However, it had significant omissions and my comments in that regard are already on the record. The code of conduct went through the process of public consultation and input.

That is in total contrast to the code finally adopted by the lower House, which was the result of the Premier usurping proceedings when he sought to foist his code of conduct onto this House. I shall be forever angry and regretful that that occurred, because I do not believe the process was proper. One feature of the code we now have is that it gives paramountcy to political parties. As a member of the ethics committee I look forward to working with the ethics adviser. I trust that other than the formality of reporting or meeting once a year with the committee he will take the opportunity to respond to the invitation from the chairman to meet early so that we can run through many issues that were raised during the development of the code of conduct and the concerns some of us have about difficulties with implementing the code. I welcome the motion.

Motion agreed to.