Budget Criticism

Mr NAGLE: My question without notice is directed to the Premier, Minister for the Arts, and Minister for Ethnic Affairs. Has he seen Opposition criticisms of yesterday's budget? What can he tell the House about that?

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I am sure that the former members who are present in the gallery today are far from impressed by the performance of members during question time. I warn members that if the standard of behaviour does not improve the Chair will not hesitate to remove offending members from the Chamber.

Mr CARR: I have spent a good part of the morning looking for any evidence that the Leader of the Opposition has criticised the budget. I have been reading the papers from 5.00 a.m., but I have not found, nor has anyone seen, a report that the Leader of the Opposition has criticised the budget? The police have one. There it is. This is what Collins has had to say about the budget.

Mr O'Doherty: On a point of order: many esteemed Speakers who have preceded you, Mr Speaker, have ruled that the kind of display indulged in by the Premier is disorderly conduct, and for a very good reason. It is impossible to record in Hansard for the benefit of generations to come the kind of theatrical charade the Premier engaged in. I ask you to direct the Premier not to engage in those tactics in the future.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! The honourable member for Ku-ring-gai knows full well that if the Premier wishes to table material he may seek leave to do so.

Mr CARR: I thought that as the Leader of the Opposition had said virtually nothing I should look at what the honourable member for Lane Cove had to say about the budget. The only notice on the public record of news by her is a lilac-coloured piece of paper.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Oxley to order. I call the honourable member for Northcott to order.

Mr CARR: It is an invitation to a black tie dinner in Lane Cove.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Port Macquarie to order.

Mr CARR: What a witches' sabbath that turned out to be! It was an invitation to a fundraising dinner for the fox-hunting set.

Ms Machin: On a point of order: my point of order has to do with relevance. As entertaining, as well scripted and as costly as Mr Ellis's jokes might be for the Premier, the question was not about the honourable member for Lane Cove or articles in the newspapers; it was about the budget. The matter is serious and we would like to hear the Premier discuss that.

Mr CARR: On the point of order: the question was, "Has the Premier seen Opposition criticisms of the Budget?"

Mr SPEAKER: Order! No point of order is involved.

Mr CARR: So this was a rather interesting invitation to a black tie gathering, a fundraising event in Lane Cove with the honourable member for Lane
Page 1580
Cove. I wondered who would be the guest of honour. Surely it was going to be the Leader of the Opposition. Logical, but not true.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Gosford to order.

Mr CARR: Would it be at all possible -

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Gosford to order for the second time. I call the honourable member for Monaro to order.

Mr CARR: Would it be at all possible that the guest of honour might be, by contrast, our old friend the honourable member for the Southern Highlands? Yes, in fact it is! Honourable members can imagine the touching scene there, the glittering black tie occasion, the candelabra, the silver, the cut glass -

[Interruption]

There she is, the Burmese cobra of Lane Cove!

Mr Kerr: On a point of order: I have been listening for some time to the answer given by the Premier to the probing forensic question asked by the honourable member for Auburn. Mr Speaker, I ask you to draw the Premier back to matters that are relevant to the question.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I am sure the Premier has in mind the essence of the question.

Mr CARR: I can only assume -

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Lane Cove to order. The honourable member will cease interjecting.

Mr CARR: Honourable members can imagine the scene at this lovely little dinner. Imagine the moment! They are just about to get into the rattling sunflower or whatever they call it at Liberal Party gatherings.

Mr Phillips: On a point of order: the question that was asked was clearly about the budget. There has been a long diversion from that question. I draw your attention to your ruling on 1 June when you said that you had no power to direct the Minister to answer the question as long as the Minister's answer was relevant to the question. I ask you to draw the Premier back to the question that was asked.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! The situation is being exacerbated by constant interjections from the Opposition. The Premier was responding to matters raised by the honourable member for Lane Cove about aspects of his dissertation. I suggest that if Opposition members remain silent and cease interjecting the Premier will soon return to the subject matter of the question.

Mr CARR: In view of the total absence of criticism of the budget from the Leader of the Opposition, the Deputy Leader of the Opposition thought he would dash out to the 7.30 Report last night. When he got to the studio I have to say that his comments - and I have read the transcript -

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Davidson to order.

Mr CARR: - on the whole were not a model of coherence, but we make allowances. Since Menzies, that side of politics has never produced anyone who is comfortable with the English language.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Myall Lakes to order.

Mr CARR: I wrestled with the transcript for some time. The Deputy Leader of the Opposition did say at one stage - high praise for the budget was a different tactic - "The best part of the budget is the programs with extra staff in health, with extra staff in police and extra staff in education." He praised the budget! He gave it a ringing endorsement. It is one thing to be praised by Terry McCrann, by Ross Gittins and by every editorial that appears in the papers today, but to be praised by the Deputy Leader of the Liberal Party on the 7.30 Report is positively thought provoking. Then there were the comments of our old canine friend, the honourable member for Ermington.

[Interruption]

There he goes! He said, "This is a budget that will kill children".

Mr Photios: It will too!

Mr CARR: That is as absurd as it is offensive, and it is reflective -

Mr Photios: What about the parent tax?

Mr SPEAKER: Order! The honourable member for Ermington is on three calls to order. If he attracts the adverse attention of the Chair again, he will be removed from the Chamber.

Mr CARR: That is reflective of the deeply sick mind that we know lurks in those quarters. The honourable member for Ermington spoke of a parent tax. If it is a parent's tax it was precisely the parent's tax sought by Bruce Baird, John Fahey, Nick Greiner and the honourable member for Eastwood. In a press release announcing the report of the Public Accounts Committee on this subject on 15 January 1993, he said, "The Committee recommended a parental contribution of $10 per term." The honourable member for Ermington talks about a parent tax! His colleague, who is sitting two people away from him, was recommending a parental contribution. What did Nick Greiner say about this? Nick Greiner, at his farewell press conference, said that he deeply regretted not having succeeded in cutting the cost of the school subsidy transport scheme. Bruce Baird was more reflective.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Ku-ring-gai to order for the third time.

Mr CARR: On 18 June he stated that he favoured a $10 per term parental contribution and he would take it to Cabinet soon.

Mr Collins: What are you going to cost parents?

Page 1581

Mr CARR: I will come back to you in a moment. In a moment I will close the circle and come right back to you. What did the honourable member for the Southern Highlands say about this? He said he would take to Cabinet a proposal for parental contribution because the costs of the scheme were unsustainable.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Bega to order.

Mr CARR: The challenge for the Leader of the Opposition is quite simply this: he should state today unequivocally that he intends to say to the people at the next election that he will reinstate the $100 million in cuts in this scheme that we have produced in this budget. Are you committed to reinstating it?

Mr Collins: What are you going to say to the parents?

Mr CARR: Are you committed to reinstating it?

Mr Collins: What are you going to say?

Mr CARR: Are you committed to reinstating it?

Mr Collins: What are you going to say? You will not answer that.

Mr CARR: I will ask the question again. Are you going to reinstate those cuts? The clock is ticking. I will ask the question one more time. Are you committed to reinstating those cuts, yes or no?

Mr SPEAKER: Order! The Premier will direct his comments through the Chair.

Mr CARR: The Leader of the Opposition has made it very plain this afternoon in the House that he will not give a commitment to the people, as we have done in this budget. I put him on the spot and said, "You give a commitment you will reverse our cuts".

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the Leader of the Opposition to order. I call the Deputy Leader of the Opposition to order.

Mr CARR: He will not take up the challenge.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! The volatile nature of the subject matter does not entitle members to breach the rules of decorum of the House. I remind members that only two questions have been asked thus far in question time. Yesterday it was necessary for the Chair to have a member removed from the Chamber for disorderly conduct. In the interests of preserving the image of the Parliament I would be loath to require another member to leave today. Already a number of members have been placed on three calls to order. Should it be necessary for the Chair to call for order in the House again, all members will be deemed to be on three calls to order.

Mr CARR: Five times I asked the question; five times I gave him the chance to say -

Mr Collins: On a point of order.

Mr CARR: - that he would go to the people at the next election -

Mr Collins: Sit down! On a point of order -

Mr CARR: - that he would go to the people -

Mr Collins: Sit down!

Mr SPEAKER: Order! The Leader of the Opposition will resume his seat. No point of order is involved.

Mr CARR: Five times! It has upset you, but it is going to be driven home.

Mr O'Doherty: On a point of order.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! No point of order is involved. The honourable member for Ku-ring-gai will resume his seat. The member is well aware that a member wishing to take a point of order should first seek the call from the Chair. When the call is given the member is invited to state his or her point either from where he or she sits or at the rostrum at the table of the House. Members certainly should not usurp the role of the Chair by seeking to instruct other members as to their behaviour. For that reason I directed the Leader of the Opposition and the honourable member for Ku-ring-gai to resume their seats. Members who wish to take points of order will do so using the appropriate forms and procedures of the House or they will not be recognised.

Mr Phillips: On a point of order: I suppose it is little wonder that members are starting to get a little rowdy in this place. Mr Speaker, you have ruled time and again -

[Interruption]

Mr SPEAKER: Order! The Chair needs no assistance to make determinations of matters raised by way of points of order.

Mr Phillips: You have ruled, Mr Speaker, constantly that all comments and questions should be directed through you rather than provocatively across the Chamber. The Premier has continued to flout that ruling with an attempt to invite you -

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I uphold the point of order. The Premier will address his remarks through the Chair.

Mr CARR: Mr Speaker, you will note that on five occasions the Leader of the Opposition was given the chance to state that he would go to the people at the next election committed to reinstating -

Mr Collins: On a point of order -

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I remind members of the Opposition of the futility of taking unnecessary points of order.

Mr Collins: On a point of order: by repeatedly referring to his five breaches of your rulings the Premier is surely flouting the ruling you have just given. I ask that the Premier recognise the forms of this House and make no such reference and simply answer the question.

Page 1582

Mr SPEAKER: Order! Some allowance must be made for human behaviour. All members are afforded a degree of leniency in this regard provided that for the majority of their contributions they address their remarks through the Char. At the time the point of order was taken the Premier was addressing his remarks through the Chair.

Mr CARR: That whining, self-pitying -

Mr O'Doherty: On a point of order.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! Members who take frivolous points of order will be called to order. I remind the honourable member for Ku-ring-gai that he is already on three calls to order. I trust that his point of order has some substance.

Mr O'Doherty: My point of order has to do with the making of a substantive attack on another member. The Premier has attempted to verbal the Leader of the Opposition by making certain claims about a position that the Leader of the Opposition is purported to hold.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! No point of order is involved. Debate in this Chamber is often robust, and members who interject can expect responses of a similar nature from the member with the call.

Mr CARR: The Leader of the Opposition gives a press conference about once a month these days. I am certain that at his next press conference he will be asked whether he is committed to reinstating the $100 million in cuts that circumstances forced us to make to this scheme, cuts which were advocated by the Public Accounts Committee, chaired by the honourable member for Eastwood, and by Premiers Greiner and Fahey.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Eastwood to order.

Mr CARR: On five occasions this afternoon the Leader of the Opposition had an opportunity to state whether he would reinstate the $100 million.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Bega to order for the second time.

Mr CARR: He has had the opportunity in this House to say he would reinstate it.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the Leader of the Opposition to order for the second time.

Mr CARR: But he will not say it. He is under challenge to say it, just as his leadership is under challenge from the Opposition benches.

Mr Jeffery: On a point of order: I refer to fact sheet No. 19 on standing orders, which all members have received. It says:

Answers to questions must be relevant and in answering, a Member must not enter into debate.

It is not up to the Premier to ask this side of the House six questions without notice. I ask you to order -

Mr SPEAKER: Order! The honourable member for Oxley suggests that questions asked of the Opposition create some disturbance in the House. The questions were obviously rhetorical in nature. I suggest that Opposition members ignore them.

Mr CARR: Perhaps I will put the question on notice. No wonder people are saying to the Leader of the Opposition that he is a man with a great future behind him!