Debate resumed from an earlier hour.

Reverend the Hon. F. J. NILE [5.29 p.m.]: The article by Paul Kelly, in which he referred to a meeting between Mr Whitlam and President Soeharto on 6 September 1974, has given Indonesia a false impression and aided and abetted its attitude that it can do what it likes with East Timor. The article continued:

East Timor was one of Portugal's smallest possessions.

The Whitlam-Soeharto exchange was decisive. It defined an Australian position that would endure, indeed, that would be difficult to change. Whitlam told Soeharto "Portuguese Timor should become part of Indonesia" and that "this should happen in accordance with the properly expressed wishes of the people". That is, incorporation by consent.

It was unqualified. A firm, almost dogmatic Whitlam position. It left no exits, no flexibility.

The point is that Mr Whitlam made it clear that he always saw that on the basis of incorporation by consent, that there would have been a referendum in 1974. Obviously, that did not occur and then, as we know, tragically the Indonesian military invaded East Timor and took over the territory totally. It is a black mark on Indonesia's reputation because a number of journalists were in that area, on the border between West and East Timor - five journalists - and they were executed by members of the Indonesian forces. Whether that was on orders or not, the fact is it was carried out by Indonesian military personnel and there have been media reports in recent times of people who were in the Indonesian military forces who confirmed the brutal execution of those journalists. It has been a very sad and sorry story over those years and the East Timorese people have been the ones who suffered.

Despite all that oppression and the disappointments they have had it is a miracle that a huge percentage of a population, more than 90 per cent, registered and voted in the recent referendum for independence, and then more than 80 per cent actually voted for independence. It was a wonderful display that I am sure we all saw on television. The Hon. Janelle Saffin was privileged to be there on the spot as an observer to see the quiet dignity of the people of East Timor as they voted, and we saw democracy in action. That was in spite of all the threats and intimidation by the militia gangs who probably thought they had succeeded in intimidating the people so they would not vote for independence. Of course, they were proved wrong when the results were announced and this led to further bloodletting in East Timor with the attacks on villages, on
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churches - even against the bishop's own home - on journalists and on United Nations staff and observers. In other words, no-one was safe from these violent militia gangs.

Even the Australian journalists, when they were allowed to leave, were escorted out by Indonesian soldiers. They forced the journalists to sit flat on the bottom of the trucks so they could not be seen in case they were attacked, yet the Indonesian soldiers were supposed to be protecting them. One wonders what degree of protection there was in the evacuation that was taking place. We can only hope and pray with the people of East Timor. We understand the great majority of them are practising Catholics and have a sincere faith, but obviously their faith has been sorely tested by these events that are occurring even as I speak. We need to give them not just our words of support. Urgent action must be taken to provide a peacekeeping force from Australia and, hopefully, from the United States, Canada and New Zealand. All of those nations have apparently offered to help create a peacekeeping force in East Timor with a minimum of 2,000 Australian service personnel, which could increase to 6,000.

Also, as others have said, East Timor will need massive economic assistance to establish a truly democratically elected Government with its own constitution, and so on. Nations like Australia should take a lead in providing that assistance. I was surprised to read the other day that Australia is still giving millions of dollars in aid to China. I suggest that may be transferred straight to East Timor. I do not believe China needs economic assistance from Australia. So money is available and can be readily transferred to East Timor. This will be particularly necessary if these militia gangs are actually destroying the infrastructure, which was not very much to start with. They are burning down the townships, government buildings, police stations, town halls and, apparently, damaging bridges and other important means of transport. Perhaps there is some even more evil plan behind this destruction to crush East Timor so Indonesia will just leave a burning wreck and argue they were needed and should have been allowed to stay. It worries me what is the ulterior motive behind these militia attacks.

There has also been some suggestion that the Indonesian Government wants as much bloodshed to occur, without necessarily directing it, to threaten anyone else in Indonesia who dares to ask about independence. A number of island territories within Indonesia were forcibly brought together under the artificial grouping of the old Dutch colony. This happened all around the world. The colonial powers created a Dutch colony which became Indonesia and this in many ways is artificial and is very difficult to hold together. So, there may be other pressure now for independence of some other parts of Indonesia, and the Indonesian Government is doing all it can to discourage any thought of that by allowing East Timor to be an example. But I am pleased to support this motion and trust that this will help Mr Howard and the Federal Government to know that they have the genuine support of the people of Australia in whatever action they take in the coming days to support, assist and protect the people of East Timor.

The Hon. Dr A. CHESTERFIELD-EVANS [5.37 p.m.]: I support this motion on behalf of the Australian Democrats. I would like to define the Democrat's position on East Timor. We have a proud record on this. In the past 21 years, since we were elected to the Senate in 1978, we have called for a referendum to be held on East Timor's self-determination. We have asked the Australian Government to play a decisive role in the Indonesian reform agenda and its position on East Timor. We have asked the Australian Government to immediately repeal or renegotiate the Timor Gap treaty in order for the benefits to the northern side of the Timor Gap to go directly to the Timorese people.

We have asked that Xanana Gusmao, Bishop Carlos Belo and Jose Ramos-Horta be acknowledged as the spokespeople of the East Timorese. We have asked Australia to advocate the formation of a United Nations peacekeeping mission and independent observers to promote a just settlement in terms of the 1982 United Nations resolution on East Timor. We have asked for an independent international investigation of human rights abuses - which is no longer necessary, it is clear what they are doing - and that Indonesian military presence be immediately and drastically reduced; the Australian Government to immediately withdraw all military aid to Indonesia; and the Australian Government to call on the Indonesian Government to unconditionally release all political prisoners, particularly Xanana Gusmao.

This century we have seen the collapse of European colonialism worldwide, at least in its most overt form, but whenever there is a vacuum someone will fill it. We have always turned a blind eye to what has happened in East Timor. The Javanese, who basically run the Indonesian archipelago, were quick to fill the vacuum of the retreating Dutch and also of the Portuguese. They did not have any particular historic, cultural or racial
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affinity with some of these countries, in particular west New Guinea or Irian Jaya, as it came to be called, nor did they with East Timor. So, it was merely geographical convenience that caused the situation to develop.

When the Portuguese were to leave East Timor a group called the Union for Democratic Timor, which wanted to join with the Indonesians, grabbed power in East Timor and held it briefly, for less than a fortnight, before Fretilin, a much more vast movement, swept it away. The Indonesians paused briefly, consulted both the Australian and United States governments and then invaded East Timor. It was my view at that time that Australia should have guaranteed the neutrality of East Timor and allowed self-determination. Although it was said that the country was non-viable economically, that was without the contribution to national revenue of gas from the Timor Sea.

For some reason that I do not understand - probably because East Timor is too far away and the United States likes to deal with bigger countries, and because Australia did not want to offend the Indonesians - we allowed the brutal invasion of East Timor by the Indonesians. Fretilin resisted that invasion strongly and courageously. We even ignored the murder of our own journalists. I believe that there was a cover-up of that investigation.

When the United States stopped training the Indonesian military, unfortunately Australia took up the slack. This blind-eye policy, if one can call it that, may backfire on us, just as pig-iron Bob's policy - Bob Menzies' policy - backfired when selling iron ore to Japan, which came back through Darwin. Australia continued on this course, which the Democrats believe was wrong, and it was the only country to give de jure recognition to Indonesian sovereignty over East Timor. The Timor Gap treaty, which we negotiated with the Indonesians, was a two-party treaty between Australia and Indonesia, whereas it should have been a three-party treaty between Australia, Indonesia and the East Timorese. The East Timorese, however, fought on extremely courageously. People now recognise East Timor as a distinct country which has United Nations supervised elections. Unfortunately, the United Nations often supervises elections but it does not supervise the results.

An election process increases the vulnerability of people, as has been seen in Burma, Yugoslavia and East Timor, where regimes have simply refused to acknowledge the result of elections. Presumably they are so out of touch that they think they can win. I heard on ABC radio a doctor from East Timor stating that he could tell which way people were going to vote. He said that if they weighed less than 45 kilograms they would vote for independence, and if they weighed more than 45 kilograms they were on the side of the Indonesian regime and wanted to be incorporated with Indonesia. That says a lot about who was receiving economic benefits. I speak briefly about our support for the sensible suggestions made yesterday by John Dowd from the International Commission of Jurists - a matter referred to earlier by Reverend the Hon. F. J. Nile. I will refer to the major points to save time as we should vote on this motion before 6.00 p.m. The document issued by John Dowd states:

Australia must:

1. Withdraw its recognition of Indonesia as the Government of East Timor.

2. Pressure the Security Council to militarily intervene in East Timor.

3. Publicly and openly condemn the deliberate actions of the Indonesian Government in the wanton destruction of human life and property in East Timor.

4. Forthwith now and for the future, cease training Indonesian military forces.

5. Suspend immediately all aid, including humanitarian aid to Indonesia.

6. Pressure the International Bank and the International Monetary Fund to cease funding a corrupt and militaristic regime in its policy of genocide against the East Timorese people as well as the people of Acheh.

7. Australia should establish a Special Prosecutor's Office to commence the collection of evidence of international crimes against humanity perpetuated by the Indonesian Government and all in authority responsible for the East Timorese tragedy.

8. Australia should sponsor the establishment of a War Crimes Tribunal to punish the crimes against humanity and other crimes now occurring in East Timor, including all in the chain of command.

9. Australia should carry out its obligations under the 1948 Genocide Convention to establish specific offences of genocide, and its further obligations to set up laws permitting extradition of criminals committing crimes against humanity.

Those suggestions were made by Justice John Dowd, who recently returned from observing the referendum in East Timor - a referendum for the separation of East Timor from Indonesia which was supported by 78 per cent of East Timorese. Federal Senator Vicki Bourne, the Democrat spokesman in this area, suggested that we should invoke Article 42 and send in a United Nations force now. She said:

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The Democrats believe that we can no longer wait for agreement from Jakarta. The UN must act on Article 42 which allows the deployment of a peace-keeping force where there is a threat to international peace and security.

The argument that we must wait for Jakarta's permission before injecting a peace-keeping force is untenable. Indonesian sovereignty over East Timor has been far from universally accepted and, in any case, the overwhelming vote for independence significantly weakens whatever claim Jakarta had over the territory.

Clearly, in the light of the horrific violence of the last few days the situation in East Timor is no longer an internal matter of the gravest order. Indonesia has abdicated whatever dubious rights it had to administer East Timor. This is now an international matter of the gravest order.

The Security Council can - and should - immediately invoke Article 42 and act decisively to act stop further murders in East Timor.

The imposition of martial law was ludicrous in the first place. It was never going to work as the Indonesian military are part of the problem. It is ridiculous to ever think they could be part of the solution.

This is the second time Indonesia has invaded East Timor. Australia cannot stand by and watch the East Timorese people get slaughtered again.

All efforts must now be concentrated on getting a UN force on the ground immediately to protect the lives of the East Timorese people who have clearly, unequivocally and bravely demanded their independence.

The Australian Democrats completely support this motion.

The Hon. JENNIFER GARDINER [5.46 p.m.]: I, like many other honourable members, speak in support of this motion. I commend the Hon. Janelle Saffin for moving the motion and, more particularly, for her concerted work on behalf of the interests of the people of East Timor. The tragedy which we have all witnessed via the media is a betrayal of the overwhelming desire or craving by the East Timorese for independence from Indonesia. I commend the Prime Minister, John Howard, and the Federal Government for working around the clock in a diplomatic effort to organise a multination United Nations-sponsored armed force to protect these desperate people from anarchy and possible genocide.

Tragedies are occurring before the powerful backdrop of the upcoming second stage of the election process to decide the next president of the Republic of Indonesia - a country that reached its fiftieth anniversary of its declaration as a republic, as a separate nation, supposedly as a united nation - at a time of peace and extraordinary economic process progress. In fact, earlier this decade it was one of the great wonders of the economic world.

The last half of this decade has seen the republic of Indonesia racked by an economic crisis, combined with student-led rioting which precipitated Mr Soeharto's resignation and Dr Habibie's succession to the presidency. It is a fact of life that events in East Timor today are related to the key role of the military in that second stage to determine who will be the next president of the republic. Of course, in Indonesia there is no such thing as the doctrine of the separation of powers. In Indonesia the military has a direct and powerful role within the Parliament. They are, no doubt, playing out. They are demonstrating their strengths in trying to influence the outcome of that critical vote.

The desire for democracy in East Timor is unstoppable. As the oldest democracy in the region it is appropriate that the Australian Government is acting assertively and appropriately in mustering the support of other countries to come to the aid of East Timor. The Government took early action months ago to place parts of the Australian defence forces on 24-hour alert. That state of preparedness has been elevated since the breakdown in law and order, following the referendum. The destruction of infrastructure which we are now seeing, including in the area of telecommunications, and the looting are appalling. So there is an urgency in building international forces not just for safety reasons but also because of the current looming prospect of added disaster in East Timor due to starvation of the people. That the spiritual leader of the East Timorese people, Bishop Belo, has had to leave his country in its hour of greatest need demonstrates so dramatically how dire the situation is when there is no respect on the part of the militias for even a bishop's house, the Red Cross or for other caring agencies.

As a number of commentators have said, particularly one on the BBC today, Jonathan Hurd speaking in Jakarta, "This is political cleansing; the wiping out of an opposing view." I subscribe to that view. Like other members of this House, I also pay tribute to the few journalists and others who stayed behind with the United Nations and other agencies. Our prayers are with them and with the people of East Timor. I support the Australian Government's efforts and the efforts of like-minded governments around the world to protect the East Timorese people and hopefully to deliver at last a quick resolution so that not only independence and democracy prevail in East Timor but also a peaceful and safe environment for all those people of this blighted neighbour of ours.

The Hon. J. J. DELLA BOSCA (Special Minister of State, and Assistant Treasurer) [5.50 p.m.]: This debate has given members the opportunity to make public contributions on this
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issue. My comments will be that of a private individual rather than as a member of the Government because I believe that is the way I can make a contribution that has not yet been made. Rather than speak, as a number of members have, from a point of expertise, I claim to speak only from a generational interpretation of events we have lived through with our nearest and sometimes blighted neighbour, as described by the Hon. Jennifer Gardiner. I refer more generally to the Indonesian nation and particularly to the long-standing controversy over East Timor, some of the other provinces, former provinces and those claimed as provinces. In doing so, I, like the Hon. C. J. S. Lynn, but in a quite different way, reflect on the irony of some aspects of yesterday's proceedings.

With some controversies attached to events yesterday bearing high in our minds, in some respects one of the most interesting from which I could not escape was when looking from the front verandah I saw people, including some familiar faces, representing what could only be described as a radical opinion strongly and fervently in favour of deploying Australian soldiers to a northern neighbour. I reflected with a number of my colleagues that those of us from the Government and the Opposition that belong to the generation known as baby boomers could view those events as the final inversion of our political and public destiny; that the political morals we were brought up on have now been almost completely reversed as we are in this place defending a status quo in some shape or form that represents perhaps a potential inaction and outside radical opinion argues strongly for military intervention.

I suppose I represent a slightly different shade of opinion to those of some speakers in this debate because I have been identified clearly with an aspect of public opinion that accepted at various times over the last 26 years the inevitability of the corporation of various provinces, including East Timor, in Indonesian territory. That inevitability about which we were so certain has proven to be not only inevitable but an absolute betrayal of the spirit of the people of East Timor and of our own morals and convictions that we gave up on too early because of concerns for political pragmatics and, I suppose, consideration of national economic priorities.

I do not propose to make this contribution a confession; I propose to reflect that not just a few of us from all sides of politics had given up on the East Timorese people and their aspirations to liberty. In fact, we live in a critical time when decisions must be made that may reverse some aspects of that generational ignorance that allowed so many of us to become concerned with bigger pictures, superpower diplomacy and all sorts of things and not to see the various serious, albeit very complex, human rights breaches at our own door.

While there might be some technically political way to describe it, the nagging doubt is that East Timor's history and relationship with Australia and other Asian neighbours to the north, including Indonesia, have not always been friendly. The debt of honour Australia owes the people of East Timor has been sadly and disgracefully ignored for so long by mainstream opinion. For that reason I dare again to offer a note of hope. Although I was not particularly impressed by yesterday's demonstration - perhaps because familiarity breeds contempt and I was familiar with some faces in the crowd, the usual suspects - everybody has detected the hope amongst the people of Australia, our neighbours, the mainstream media's reaction and opinion in general, that regardless of what you thought before, regardless of what pragmatic reasons you have accepted about de facto, de jure or formal incorporation, whatever issue you follow, whatever faction or party you were loyal to, now is a great and historic opportunity to repeat that debt of honour to the East Timorese people.

It might do well to reflect on the fact that the East Timorese have suffered not only for Australian moral indifference on occasions but also for Australian political incompetence. Many people will remember that in spite of our great boast that we were a democracy that was literally a frontline participant in the Second World War, we maintained democratic operations throughout. We did not adopt a war Cabinet or war Parliament stance, but during the course of our democratic deliberations many East Timorese were slaughtered as a result of careless comments in the Australian Parliament, which I suppose the Japanese intelligence were prescient to actually listen to occasionally. The famous "Our boys will sleep easy in Timor tonight" will go down as one of the great historical mistakes in parliamentary admissions.

The other matter I ask the House to reflect on as we consider and presumably adopt the motion of the Hon. Janelle Saffin is the tendency to round on the young fanatics, the militia men, the individual face of the brutality. Though a lot of them presumably are young and in their own way are idealistic fanatics armed with machetes - they did not get AK47s from the Australian Army; they would have got them from somewhere else, but that is another part of the debate for some other time - they are doing all those things we see, the human face of the slaughter. It is an important
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history lesson that young idealistic fanatics usually act on the orders or are subject to the manipulation of cynical and self-interested older men and do so to protect the interests of some other institution.

We have to be careful and balanced about the kinds of concerns being articulated. Indonesia now at its own threshold is clearly historically driven by a fear of the capacity of its own nation for solidarity because of its religious, ethnic and other differences, a fear of not being able to advance economically - which, for a nation so populated, poor and underresourced, has been a challenge to its people and has possibly driven some of the external politics pursued by the Indonesian Government - and a fear of change. It is now a matter of seriously canvassed public record that they have a problem with a corrupt and apparently incompetent military, and the military decision-making process. Many aspects of the State's operations are characterised by incompetence and an inability to adapt to change.

We will not help them to achieve what we have an interest in helping them to achieve if we continue to make them behave in a fearful way. Although we have to accept the challenge that both the Federal Government and the public are coming to grips with we should not repeat some of the mistakes of earlier generations, and our generation, by oversimplifying a very complicated situation. The Indonesians are not the evil people in this controversy. The evil in this situation is personal and extends beyond the boundaries of Indonesians to our own country. As I said previously, for 26 years many of us have politely and quietly turned blind eyes during political debates about the realities that the recent ballot made so absolutely clear.

We should reflect on the simultaneous events that have occurred in our region as a great tragedy starts to unfold. It seems that slaughter is possible on our doorstep and, indeed, is already on foot. News has come through simultaneously about new and positive developments in Northern Ireland, South Africa and the Middle East. We should make it very clear that, with resolution and simple examination of the basic facts, the basic obligations of individuals and groups to act morally in the situation with which we are confronted still exist.

The East Timorese have struggled for a very long time, not only against people who sought to incorporate them into a nation they did not want to be part of, but also against not their ignorance or poverty, but the poverty of our convictions and our ignorance. I do not speak for everybody, but for a large number of Australians when I say that the scales have been finally torn away from our eyes. We have a great opportunity to reverse an injustice. I congratulate the Hon. Janelle Saffin, among many others, on her work over the years to ensure that when this historical opportunity arose we would be in a position to do something about it.

The Hon. D. F. MOPPETT [6.03 p.m.]: The motion moved by our esteemed colleague calls on each one of us to examine our conscience and respond to this latest episode of humanity descending into savagery. Because of the cataclysmic nature of the events of the past few days it is not an occasion for parades about our past stance or our record. It is not a time for flag-waving about slogans, philosophies or views. It is a time for individuals to protest until it stops. When I listened to the mover speaking, diminutive in stature but so truly courageous and displaying valour in its real sense in the way she spoke on this subject, I was reminded of John Donne. The full quotation is, " . . . never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee".

There is no doubt that it is very easy to talk about what other people should have done and what other people should be doing right now, but the important thing is what we should be doing. What is happening in East Timor, and what has happened in other parts of the world, diminishes us. We do not want to spend too much time on the faults of the Indonesian people, nor on our past faults. But we should remember that whenever these things occur anywhere in the world we are all diminished by their manifestation. We have seen recent, sombre reports of depravity, acts that shock us to our very core. Yet we must not be mesmerised by them. We must ensure that our purpose is very clear: We want to support the initiatives of our Government unequivocally and we fervently hope that the good effects that may be achieved by the efforts of our Government and the world joining with us will unfold sooner rather than later.

When we have effectively answered the call to meet the challenge of the moment it may be possible to pause, reflect on and renew our commitment to prevent the occurrence of these sorts of problems. Recently the Hon. Jennifer Gardiner heard me quote Charles Dickens introduction to A Tale of Two Cities from the eighteenth century, "It was the best of times, it was the worst of times." It is amazing how many times we seem to be unable to grasp the lessons of history, move on and prevent ourselves from being drawn into these conflagrations. I sound one note of caution: Some speakers, and I do not doubt their sincerity, have urged further action by groups like the trade unions to invoke sanctions on the Indonesian people.

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I remind all honourable members that the one lesson we can draw from history is that acts of despotic tyranny take hold only in impoverished countries. We do not want to exacerbate the suffering of the Indonesian people. Anyone who understands where Indonesia generally fits into the pattern of world politics and economy would realise that it occupies a very lowly position. For the average, almost peasant, person throughout the archipelago of Indonesia these events are probably unintelligible. They cannot understand what is going on. They are driven by people who are as misguided as any of the other tyrants of recent history. We have to be careful that in self-righteous indignation we do not strike out at them instead of the military leaders who have failed the Indonesian Government - perhaps the Indonesian Government has also failed.

The savagery that has been perpetrated in East Timor in the past few months is what we want to concentrate on. At a later stage we can talk about politics in the region and better relations with this nation that is so important to us. But right now the crisis is on the streets of Dili, out in the countryside and in the villages where these acts of savagery are being perpetrated. We have to concentrate on stopping it right now and ensuring that some sense of humanity reigns again. We should support whatever resources are necessary to achieve that result. I am sure that all honourable members would join with me in thanking the mover of the motion for giving us the opportunity to express our hope that this night of terror in East Timor will soon yield to a dawn of greater enlightenment, understanding and tolerance amongst the people who live there, and a better future for all the people who live in that region of the world.

The Hon. P. T. PRIMROSE [6.09 p.m.]: I am pleased to support the motion, which is: That this House expresses its solidarity with the people of East Timor. We indicate this Parliament's support for action by the Federal Government to institute democracy in East Timor and to disarm the militias currently terrorising the population. I join with other members of this House and with the wider Australian community in condemning the current violence in East Timor and the forced deportation of civilians to camps in West Timor. I am particularly concerned by the duplicitous role of the Indonesian military and police in orchestrating and directing much of the violence. The relationship between these Indonesian Government forces and their surrogates, the so-called militias, has been exposed and needs to be condemned at every opportunity. The attacks on church missions, United Nations compounds and the offices of the Red Cross, as well as on the refugees seeking shelter in such premises, should be viewed with extreme alarm and are a direct violation of numerous international covenants.

As a member of this House I call upon the Australian Government, the United Nations and the international community to immediately organise for a peace enforcement mission to be deployed in East Timor. As the United Nations has never recognised the Indonesian annexation in 1976 and because under international law Portugal remains the legal administrative authority over the territory, an Indonesian invitation should not be seen as vital for such a deployment to occur, although it would be welcomed. There are numerous United Nations resolutions already in place calling on Indonesia to withdraw from East Timor dating back to the mid-seventies.

I strongly believe that a new approach is needed in Australia's relations with Indonesia, founded on a more long-term and principled stance, incorporating a commitment towards human rights instead of the present pragmatic, narrow and short-term emphasis on trade and economic gain. Particularly consistent and reflective of these standards, Australia must reject the politics and pragmatism of the past 25 years which, unfortunately, have determined its stand on the issue of East Timor.

Consequently, I urge the Australian Government, along with humanitarian and aid organisations, human rights groups and all people and organisations interested in justice and peace to: first, withdraw its de jure recognition of Indonesia's annexation of East Timor in 1976; and, second, rescind the Timor Gap Treaty of 1991 with Indonesia whereby East Timor's ocean floor and the natural gas and oil deposits there contained were illegally divided between the conquering nation, Indonesia, and Australia. We should collectively look upon the Timor Gap Treaty as a violation of international law and a moral stain on Australia's reputation. Third, we should call on the Australian Government to: suspend all military aid, training and treaty obligations with Indonesia; fourth, suspend all economic aid to Indonesia; fifth, allow for a temporary, special and immediate category of refugee status to be granted for East Timorese civilians fleeing to Australia, similar to that organised for Kosovo refugees earlier this year; and, finally, suspend those sections of the Federal Industrial Relations Act which would apply sanctions on those trade unions seeking to impose bans on Indonesia over the issue of East Timor.

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The Hon. CARMEL TEBBUTT (Minister for Juvenile Justice, Minister Assisting the Premier on Youth, and Minister Assisting the Minister for the Environment) [6.14 p.m.]: I speak briefly to this significant motion expressing solidarity with the people of East Timor. Along with my colleagues I commend the Hon. Janelle Saffin for moving this motion and for her diligence and commitment to pursuing issues such as independence for the people of East Timor. As the Hon. D. F. Moppett said, she does it with a lot of valour.

I wish to go back some time because following this Saturday's local government elections, this is probably the last time that I will speak in this House wearing two hats: that of a Minister and as a member of Marrickville Council. In 1994 Marrickville Council placed a memorial in Marrickville Park to the people of East Timor acknowledging the support they gave to Australian soldiers during World War II. It was a memorable occasion. As most people would be aware, Marrickville is a multicultural society and the council was able to acknowledge those East Timor people who live in the area and the support given in the past by the people of East Timor to Australian soldiers.

Tom Uren, who I am sure would be known to many as having a long involvement in supporting the rights of the people of East Timor to independence, spoke eloquently at that memorial ceremony about the need for Australia to return thanks to the people of East Timor by supporting their claim for independence. It is a speech I will not forget. In 1994 we could not have known that the people of East Timor would have the opportunity to vote for independence and that it would be snatched so savagely away. I have nothing but admiration for the people of East Timor, who voted overwhelmingly for independence despite the ominous presence, threats and action of the militias and military in Indonesia - threats that are now being carried out against the East Timorese.

I concur with other speakers that order needs to be restored as soon as possible to stop the atrocities that are occurring in East Timor. The campaign by the militias in East Timor to terrify the United Nations, the media and the people of East Timor is clearly working as many are leaving the province or are trapped in compounds, leaving little opposition to the rampages of the militias. There is now a media blackout, which means that we can only begin to imagine what further atrocities are occurring in East Timor. We do know that the tragedy is unfolding before our eyes and it has its origins embedded in history and through the actions of successive governments, which have ignored the legitimate rights of the East Timorese people for independence. I am pleased that the party of which I am a member has now changed its position and that is very significant.

There have been reports of a large number of killings and the forced removal of East Timorese. We are told that some East Timorese are being forced to sign documents detailing a desire to change their vote for pro-integration with Indonesia, in an obvious ploy to discredit the overwhelming vote for independence. We know that the Indonesian military has refused to allow East Timorese people who work for the United Nations to fly to Darwin. There is a litany of atrocities occurring and I do not need to document any more; so many have been documented by speakers before me. It is certainly vital that all Indonesian militia and military are withdrawn from East Timor, order is restored and the will of the East Timorese people for independence is upheld. I admire the strong stance of Cardinal Clancy, the Catholic Archbishop of Sydney on this most important of issues. He stated:

If we simply stand by and do nothing it will leave a scar on our reputation and history that will never heal.

It is not too late to save the people of East Timor, and Australia, with its close ties in the region, is in a strong position to contribute to this and has a responsibility to do so. I hope that this motion plays its part. I agree with the comments made by the Hon. D. F. Moppett about the need for all of us to examine our consciences and take action. I strongly support this House expressing its solidarity with the people of East Timor.

The Hon. J. H. JOBLING [6.18 p.m.]: I support the motion moved to express solidarity with the people of East Timor. Australia needs to stop the violence, murder, mayhem, intimidation and looting that is occurring on a grand scale in one of our nearest neighbouring countries. Reports indicate that much of the island is aflame and that courthouses are being burned down while the electricity supply fails to function. Indonesia has a large number of troops in the province. Quite clearly they have been instructed by the central government to suppress, stop and, if need be, put down the thugs, militias and gangs that are roaming East Timor at will, looting and killing as they go.

I am aware that the Royal Australian Navy's catamaran Jervis Bay has left Darwin with troops aboard and is presently standing off in international waters in readiness for a potential rescue mission. I hope that events will not come to that. I hope that
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the United Nations and the Government of Indonesia will see that right is on the side of the people of East Timor. They have held a free election with the result that 78 per cent of voters have asked for independence. The violence, looting, burning, blatant intimidation and killing of people who simply want to get on with their lives must stop. The people of East Timor must be allowed to live freely. The militia must not be allowed to continue its wilful and wicked ways.

The Hon. JANELLE SAFFIN [6.20 p.m.], in reply: I am aware of the lateness of the hour and that an estimates committees hearing will take place this evening. However, I seek the indulgence of honourable members to put on the record some matters that are very important. This lengthy debate has given most honourable members an opportunity to speak personally, which is what the motion was intended to do. Obviously in a House of Parliament, members deliver political messages; but this particular debate has provided an opportunity to express personal feelings about East Timor. My colleague the Hon. J. J. Della Bosca expressed the view that this debate could be seen as a betrayal of the people of East Timor and even of our own sectarian politics. He suggested that some of us have given up on the idea of liberty because it is easier instead to give preference to other interests. That seems to be the nature of politics, and I do not condemn that. I admired some of the comments he made and his honesty. That is probably why he is where he is and I am where I am.

This debate has given members of Parliament an opportunity to express their feelings about East Timor. We have misgivings, we feel sorry and we feel remorseful about what has happened in East Timor. A moral wrong was committed in East Timor a long time ago and no political smokescreen or legal artifice can change that. It is my view that although that type of situation can continue for some time, the lessons of history show that it will not continue forever; liberty cannot be dampened, and people cannot be denied their democratic aspirations. Eventually people rise up and those aspirations are expressed somewhere along the line. I believe that is what has happened in East Timor.

In common with some other honourable members, I remember a man who a long time ago was relatively unknown. That man was José Ramos Horta and he spoke about East Timor continually. Nobody would listen, but he continued to talk about East Timor and travelled the world drawing attention to the situation of the people of East Timor. He took the message to the international community and even did so in Australia, which must have been extremely difficult given Australia's political recognition of Indonesia as the Government of East Timor. Eventually, when people speak the right message from a moral platform and with moral conviction, a situation can be rectified.

Many honourable members have thanked me for proposing this motion. I appreciate their sentiments but, as I said earlier, thanks are not necessary because it has been a privilege for me to be involved in East Timor and working with the people. The key feature of this debate is the expression of this Parliament’s solidarity with the people of East Timor and its admiration for their courage. The people of East Timor were well aware that they would pay a high price for their courage; indeed, some have paid the ultimate price with their lives and with the lives of members of their families. It was a great experience for me to bear witness to the courage they have shown.

All honourable members would know that Xanana Gusmao, the president of the National Council of Timorese Resistance, has been released from house arrest. In May 1999 he delivered a message in the "East Timor Supplement" in an article titled, "East Timor: The Final Vote". The article states:

There is no doubt that there will be difficulties on the ground and that numerous obstacles will continue to be placed in the path of the preparation of a fair, democratic and transparent consultation. All however will depend on the Indonesian government's compliance with the terms of the agreement relating to its responsibility for creating a climate of peace and tranquillity for the population.

The Indonesian Government has failed badly and has let down the people of East Timor. It has not created a climate of peace and tranquillity; rather, a silent massacre has taken place.

Having said that, I hasten to add that my personal condemnation is directed at the Indonesian Government and the military, but not at the Indonesian people. I know people in East Timor whose condemnation is also directed at the Indonesian Government and the Indonesian military, but not at the people of Indonesia. On the day that voting took place I had conversations with some militia people, some Indonesian polisi and also some military personnel. Because everyone was in the same place and we had a long day together, we began to talk, as human beings do, and exchanged confidences. A number of Indonesian military personnel said that they actually felt bad about what was happening in East Timor and about playing a part in the destruction of East Timor. These people are intelligent, highly trained and professional. They
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know what is going on, and they did not feel good about it.

Another interesting sentiment expressed was that whatever the rights and wrongs of the present situation - and there are plenty of wrongs - people are conscious of actually taking part in a historic occasion. It was pointed out to me that people felt they were a part of history. After all, it is not very often that the United Nations undertakes a process to create a new state. The essence of what is happening in East Timor is a rare event, namely, the creation of a new state of the United Nations, which will be the end result of the popular vote. Clearly, people in Indonesia, including military people, believe that what is taking place in East Timor is wrong and that the events of East Timor are historic.

The Hon. C. J. S. Lynn referred to the 2nd/2nd Independent Company and the 2nd/4th Battalion. I recall an occasion held in Parliament - at which some honourable members were present - to honour José Ramos Horta at the time he received the Nobel Peace Prize. On that occasion some former Australian soldiers attended the function and were absolutely delighted to be in the Parliament, participate in a function and have their say about East Timor. They consistently said that the issue in East Timor is a moral wrong. Yesterday in Byron Bay when a rally was held about East Timor one former soldier who lives in the area came to the rally and reiterated his commitment to the people of East Timor. It was obvious that his commitment was very strong and lifelong.

It needs to be said that the media journalists in East Timor are doing a magnificent job. As a tribute, I wish to name the Australian journalists who are reporting from East Timor. They are: Lindsay Murdoch from the Sydney Morning Herald, Karen Polgraze from Australian Associated Press Information Services, Terry Friel from Reuters, Don Greenlees from the Australian, John Martinkus who is freelance, Tim Lester, Di Martin, Greg Thompson, Mark Bowling and a cameraman whom I know only as David from the ABC, Tim Dodd from the Australian Financial Review, Michael Marr from the Bulletin, and the media safety officer - what a job! - Heather Patterson from the ASA and the Media, Entertainment and Arts Alliance [MEAA].

I pay tribute to the journalists for their reporting and their courage; they were in very difficult situations. Australian journalists were clearly targeted; the militia wanted to get them. I was conscious of that when I was walking around with a big camera. I thought to myself, "My goodness, I don't want them to think I am an Australian journalist." Perhaps being an Australian politician is just as bad; but I was there as a lawyer. Lindsay Murdoch and John Martinkus were reporting from there earlier today. I assume they left on this afternoon's plane; they must have, because the plane was there. As politicians we have an unusual relationship with the media; it is like we are up close but not always really comfortable. It is important to record their wonderful professionalism and courage.

I was inspired by my fellow Australians here because of what they want to do about East Timor. I was also inspired by my fellow Australians in Indonesia. In Dili the Vice-Consul, John Atkins, was brilliant in securing the safety of Australians, as was John McCarthy. There is a lot more I would like to say, but I just say thank you to everyone. I assume this motion will be endorsed unanimously. I ask that you all continue to do everything you can, as I will, to ensure that the will expressed by the people of East Timor to have a secure independent East Timor is achieved, and that they will have freedom, peace and democracy. I hope that Australia will give all the aid and support it possibly can to the East Timorese community in Australia as well.

Motion agreed to.

[The President left the chair at 6.33 p.m. The House resumed at 10.00 p.m.]