The House met at 2 p.m., pursuant to the proclamation of His Excellency the Governor.

Mr Speaker (The Hon. Kevin Richard Rozzoli) took the chair.

Mr Speaker offered the Prayer.

The Clerk read the proclamation.


The Usher of the Black Rod, being admitted, delivered a message from His Excellency the Governor requesting the immediate attendance of this honourable House in the Legislative Council Chamber.

The House went, and honourable members having returned,


Bill read a first time.


Mr SPEAKER: I have to report that the House this day attended the Governor in the Legislative Council Chamber, when His Excellency was pleased to deliver an Opening Speech to both Houses of Parliament. For greater accuracy, I have obtained a copy, which I lay upon the table of the House and order that it be recorded in the Votes and Proceedings.

[Mr Speaker left the chair at 3.5 p.m. The House resumed at 5 p.m.]


Royal assent to the following bills of the previous session reported:

Bank Integration Bill
Coal and Oil Shale Mine Workers (Superannuation) Amendment Bill
Coal Mining Industry Long Service Leave (Repeal) Bill
Crimes (Application of Criminal Law) Amendment Bill
Land Tax Management (Amendment) Bill
Meat Industry (Game Meat) Amendment Bill
State Revenue Legislation (Further Amendment) Bill
Conveyancing Legislation (Notice of Sale) Amendment Bill
Endangered Fauna (Interim Protection) Amendment Bill
Environmental Planning and Assessment (Contributions Plans) Amendment Bill

Environmental Planning and Assessment (Miscellaneous Amendments) Bill
Industrial Relations (Sick Leave) Amendment Bill
Legal Aid Commission (Amendment) Bill
Legal Profession (Practising Certificates) Amendment Bill
Medical Practice Bill
Nurses (Amendment) Bill
New South Wales Crime Commission (Amendment) Bill
Real Property (Torrens Assurance Fund) Amendment Bill
Criminal Procedure (Sentence Indication) Amendment Bill
Financial Transactions Reports Bill
Centennial Park and Moore Park Trust (Amendment) Bill
Centennial Park and Moore Park Trust (Macquarie Sydney Common) Amendment Bill
Commonwealth Powers (State Banking) Bill
Community Welfare (Amendment) Bill
Constitution (Amendment) Bill
Co-operatives (Amendment) Bill
First State Superannuation Bill
State Authorities Superannuation (Scheme Closure) Amendment Bill
Superannuation Legislation (Superannuation Guarantee Charge) Amendment Bill
Parliamentary Committees Enabling Bill
Periodic Detention of Prisoners (Amendment) Bill
Public Health (Amendment) Bill
Statute Law (Miscellaneous Provisions) Bill (No. 3)
Statute Law (Penalties) Bill
Tamworth Tourist Information Centre Bill
Treasury Corporation (Amendment) Bill


Mr Speaker nominated the following honourable members to act as Temporary Chairmen of Committees during the present session: Raymond Francis Chappell, Bradley Ronald Hazzard, Kevin Joseph Moss, Andrew Arnold Tink, and Kimberley Maxwell Yeadon.


Mr Speaker, pursuant to section 78(1) of the Independent Commission Against Corruption Act, laid upon the table the report of the Independent Commission Against Corruption on the Investigation Into the Use of Informers, Volumes 1 and 2, dated January 1993.


Pursuant to the Public Finance and Audit Act, the Clerk announced receipt of the Auditor-General's Report for 1992, Volume 3.


Pursuant to section 57(1) of the Public Finance and Audit Act, 1983, the Clerk announced receipt of the report of the Public Accounts Committee for the year ended 30th June, 1992; the report of the Public
Page 8
Accounts Committee Inquiry into Financing Urban Infrastructure - Report on European Inspection Tour, 30th October to 12th November, 1992; the report of the Public Accounts Committee Inquiry into School Student Transport Scheme, dated January 1993; the minutes of evidence taken before the Public Accounts Committee Inquiry into School Student Transport Scheme; and the report of the Public Accounts Committee Proceedings of the 90th Anniversary Seminar on Internal Control and Audit 19th November, 1992, dated January 1993.


Pursuant to section 68A of the Independent Commission Against Corruption Act, the Clerk announced receipt of the report of the collation of evidence of the Commissioner of the Independent Commission Against Corruption, on general aspects of the commission's operations.


Pursuant to the terms of reference of the Select Committee upon the Administration of State Owned Coal Mines, the Clerk announced receipt of the committee's report together with minutes of proceedings dated December 1992.


Pursuant to the terms of reference of the Joint Select Committee upon Police Administration, the Clerk announced receipt of the committee's report concerning disclosure of in camera evidence.


Mr West, by leave, tabled the report of the Standing Orders and Procedure Committee dated 16th February, 1993.


Motion by Mr Beckroge agreed to:

That leave of absence for the present session be granted to Pamela Diane Allan, member for Blacktown, on account of absence from the State.

Mr FAHEY: I wish to inform the House that the Attorney General and Minister for Industrial Relations will be represented in this House by the Minister for the Environment.

Motion, by leave, by Mr West agreed to:

That, in accordance with Section 14(1)(b) of the Parliamentary Contributory Superannuation Act 1971, Christopher John Downy be appointed trustee of the Parliamentary Contributory Superannuation Fund in place of Wayne Ashley Merton.

Motion, by leave, by Mr West agreed to:

That the reporting time for the Select Committee upon the Port Macquarie Base Hospital Project be extended until 31st May, 1993.

Mr WEST (Orange - Minister for Conservation and Land Management, and Minister for Energy) [5.8], by leave: I move:

(1) That this House agrees to the adoption of new and amended standing orders and the rescission of certain standing orders in accordance with the report of the Standing Orders and Procedure Committee.

(2) That such new, amended and rescinded standing orders come into operation immediately as sessional orders until approved by His Excellency the Governor.

(3) That such new, amended and rescinded standing orders be presented by Mr Speaker to His Excellency the Governor for approval.

This motion is based on the report I tabled earlier in the House, and takes into account the deliberations of the Standing Orders and Procedure Committee at the end of last year and at its first meeting this year - which was held last week - and its decision to move for a number of sessional orders to be made standing orders. Honourable members will appreciate that the concept of sessional orders allows the House to trial procedures. Procedures that have been included in the standing orders were given a trial as sessional orders and have now been accepted as standard practice. It is much harder to alter a practice once it is enshrined in the standing orders. Therefore, the Standing Orders and Procedure Committee, which on most matters is bipartisan, made the recommendations which this motion seeks to adopt. I thank honourable members for the way in which they have approached this aspect of the work of the committee.

Mr WHELAN (Ashfield) [5.10]: The Opposition concurs with the report of the Standing Orders and Procedure Committee on proposed new standing orders and with the motion moved by the Minister. This indeed is a step in the right direction. However, it is not a panacea for the many actual and inherent problems with the standing orders and some of the sessional orders. I shall not take the time of the House by going through them. Regrettably the committee met infrequently; but it considered that these amendments should be incorporated immediately into the standing orders. I take this opportunity to
Page 9
thank the Clerks - who prepared the report under the guidance of the Minister and you, Mr Speaker - for writing it in a form that is easily read and digested. This is an unusual method of bringing the motion before the Parliament but it is one that should be adopted, for it is a useful way of dealing with amendments. Honourable members will be aware that I have six or seven items on the business paper for consideration that I regard as being extremely important. I hope they will be dealt with in the same manner and as quickly as these amendments.

Mr HATTON (South Coast) [5.12]: Quite often in this House standing orders are amended and many backbench members do not take a great deal of interest in them. They leave them to the Standing Orders and Procedure Committee. However, these are the rules by which honourable members play the game; they are absolutely vital. Each and every motion dealing with the standing orders determines whether backbench members have certain rights in this House and whether they retain those rights. In speaking to the motion for the adoption of these standing orders I make my position and that of my fellow Independent members clear. The gains that have been made in the standing orders will evaporate when a government - whether conservative or Labor Party - comes into office and does not have to rely on backbench members to enable it to form a government or to work effectively as a government.

All backbench members should examine the standing orders in a bipartisan way. Significant gains have been made that will preserve their rights in Opposition as well as in government - for example, supplementary questions upon notice, matters of urgency, matters of public importance, private members' statements, legislation committees, estimates committees and private members' days. We must ensure that, should a Labor government gain office and members who are at present on the Government benches end up in Opposition - and certainly that will happen, whether in one or two terms - certain standing orders are placed in a special category that necessitates a two-thirds majority of the Standing Orders and Procedure Committee to change them. As a member of this House I saw, for example, the Frank Walkers and Neville Wrans take away the rights of backbench members.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is far too much interjection from members on the Government benches.

Mr HATTON: I am aware that conservative governments have done the same thing.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Myall Lakes to order.

Mr HATTON: There was not a thing that I or any other backbench member could do about it, for the simple reason that the Government of the day had the numbers on the Standing Orders and Procedure Committee and on the floor of the House. In a bipartisan way I ask all backbench members to give a great deal of thought to the matters I have raised. If they treasure private members' days and do not want to lose them, if they treasure the opportunity of making private members' statements and debating matters of public importance - in respect of which this Government has been generous - and if they treasure the other significant measures that this Government has put in place, to preserve their rights they should seriously consider whether those procedures could simply be reversed in the future. The Independents, along with many other backbench members on both sides of the House, share the view that we will build up a culture in this Parliament -

Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is too much audible conversation in the Chamber.

Mr HATTON: - that will dictate that the Parliament belongs to all honourable members -

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Keira to order.

Mr HATTON: - not to the Government of the day or to the Executive.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Coffs Harbour to order.

Mr HATTON: Consequently, on behalf of those who elect us in New South Wales I say to the honourable member for Coffs Harbour that all honourable members represent their constituents, but can only represent them effectively if the standing orders give members the freedom to do so. That freedom must be preserved by giving this House, on a bipartisan basis, the right to determine its standing orders.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Myall Lakes to order for the second time.

Mr HATTON: The last matter I wish to raise relates to the additional time that is being allowed to debate private members' bills.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Canterbury to order.

Mr HATTON: This matter will arise for debate at a later time, probably tomorrow, and must be seriously considered. A number of government and non-government members have prepared bills that they want to have debated and determined. That will not happen unless more time is devoted to that purpose. I make my position clear, as I did to the Leader of the Opposition today - and it is a position that is shared by my fellow Independent members: the Government has a right to govern, and to have its legislation introduced and given priority in the parliamentary program. However, backbench members also have a right to introduce legislation into the House and to have it debated. That may involve additional sitting time, but the standing orders provide that the House may set the routine of business that will allow the types of matters I have mentioned in debate on this motion to be dealt with.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Port Jackson to order. I call the honourable member for Cabramatta to order.


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Mr HATTON: If that is accepted, obviously the House can, by a simple majority, take away the rights of backbench members. That means that the Executive Government can control the Parliament. That should be borne carefully in mind. I have seen governments come and go; undoubtedly that will happen again and the rights of members will evaporate if they are not safeguarded.

Mr WEST (Orange - Minister for Conservation and Land Management, and Minister for Energy) [5.18], in reply: I acknowledge the points raised by the honourable member for South Coast. One of the orders that was trialed as a sessional order last session is to become a standing order. I refer to the provision that at 5.15 p.m. each sitting day 10 members will be allowed to make private members' statements. Normally such an order would be given a trial, but it was agreed generally in the committee's discussions that, to preserve the rights of private members, this provision should immediately be included in the standing orders.

Many honourable members from both sides of this House have not served in opposition. Opposition members who have not served in a government before do not fully understand the workings of the Parliament. As the honourable member for South Coast said, governments in the past that have had the numbers without crossbench support have been absolutely ruthless in the way they have treated private members. I well remember that before 1988 no private member's bill received any consideration. Now, each Thursday morning, private members' bills are debated. I ask honourable members to keep that in mind. The honourable member for South Coast is referring also to the fact that a motion has been listed for debate later today.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Port Stephens to order.

Mr WEST: Today I do not intend to move a motion for the sitting program for the autumn session; that needs to be debated. I remind Opposition members of their proposition to have the House sit for three additional days - Monday, 5th April, Tuesday, 6th April, and Wednesday, 7th April - during one of the two weeks that the Parliament is scheduled not to sit. The Opposition does not understand that when the Government prepares a sitting program it does so in the knowledge that Ministers have duties other than those they are obliged to perform during the sittings of the House. Ministers must attend ministerial council meetings around which the sittings of Parliament are often scheduled. The rights of the Government to set the program, and not just the rights of private members, must be considered. I shall speak about that matter in more detail later. I thought it appropriate to respond at this stage to the matters raised by the honourable member for Ashfield to put in some perspective the comments of the honourable member for South Coast.

Motion agreed to.

Mr WEST (Orange - Minister for Conservation and Land Management, and Minister for Energy) [5.22], by leave: I move:

That this House adopts the following sessional orders:

That during the present session, unless otherwise ordered -

When the House or the Committee has carried the question, "That the question be now put", the Speaker or the Chairman of Committees, as the case may be, may, with the leave of the House, order the doors to be locked immediately after the division bell has been rung in respect of a division on any question that is consequential on the closure motion.

That during the present session, unless otherwise ordered, on the last sitting day of each week -

(1) From 10.00 a.m. any two private members may move to suspend Standing and Sessional Orders to permit the Order of the Day for the resumption of debate on the member's bill to be granted precedence on that day.

The carrying of one such motion precludes another member moving a subsequent motion to suspend Standing and Sessional Orders for the purpose of this Sessional Order.

(2) On any such suspension motion, the member proposing the legislation shall be permitted to make a statement limited to three minutes and one other member may reply for three minutes.

(3) At 1.00 p.m. any interrupted General Business Order of the Day for Bills shall stand adjourned and be set down as an Order of the Day for tomorrow.

That during the present session, unless otherwise ordered -

(1) Prior to calling upon Questions without Notice the Speaker shall call upon Members to give written notice of matters for urgent consideration. No more than three notices shall be accepted at any one sitting of the House.

(2) Such notices shall be set down for consideration immediately after the conclusion of Formal Business with precedence over all other business.

(3) If only one notice is given such Member shall be called at the prescribed time to move the motion forthwith without a five minute statement being required.

(4) If more than one notice is given the Members giving such notices shall be permitted to make a statement limited to five minutes so the House may establish the priority of such matters.

(5) At the conclusion of any five minute statement the Speaker shall put separate questions on each notice in the order in which the notices were given in the form "That the notice for urgent consideration of the Honourable Member for . . . be proceeded with".

(6) If the first or subsequent question put is agreed to the motion shall be moved forthwith without any further questions being put.

(7) When the notice for Urgent Consideration is determined and the motion is moved the following speaking times shall apply

Mover and member 1st speaking thereafter 10 minutes
Other members (limited to three) 5 minutes
Reply 5 minutes

(8) Where an urgent matter has been considered by the House then any Matter of Public Importance listed for consideration that day shall be limited in duration to the following speaking times -

Mover and member 1st speaking thereafter 10 minutes

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One other member 5 minutes
Reply 5 minutes

That during the present session, unless otherwise ordered -

During the second reading debate on the Appropriation Bill on motion of the minister, the House shall appoint Estimates Committees for the purpose of examining and reporting upon proposed expenditures from the Consolidated Fund for each organisational unit for each minister listed in the tabled Estimates, and the corresponding clauses and schedules of the Appropriation Bill. Such proposed expenditure shall stand referred to the appropriate Committee.

That during the present session, unless otherwise ordered -

(1) Upon a motion being moved or agreed to for the second reading of a bill the member having carriage of the bill may, with the leave of the House, move forthwith and without notice, "That the (name of the bill) be referred to a Legislation Committee for consideration and report to the House on such amendments as it considers should be proposed to the Committee of the Whole on that bill".

(2) Such Committee shall comprise a maximum of six members, of whom no more than three shall be members representing the Government and no more than three shall be non-Government members.

(3) The Chairman of the Committee shall be elected by the Committee and shall be a Government member.

(4) A quorum shall consist of four members.

(5) The Chairman shall exercise a deliberative vote and, in the event of an equality of votes, a casting vote.

(6) The Committee shall have leave to sit during the sittings or any adjournment of the House and have power to take evidence and call for persons, papers and things and to report from time to time.

(7) In all other respects the Committee shall be conducted in accordance with the Standing Orders relating to Standing and Select Committees.

(8) That the Committee not have leave to travel.

(9) The minister having portfolio responsibility for the bill if enacted shall provide to the Committee such drafting and support services as requested by the Committee.

(10) On or before the date set down for the Committee to table its final report, such date being not longer than six months from the date on which the Committee was established, the Chairman of the Committee shall present to the Speaker in the House the final Report of the Committee and the Speaker shall set down its consideration in the Committee of the Whole on the bill as an Order of the Day for tomorrow.

If the House is not sitting at the time of report the Chairman shall forward such Report to the Speaker for report at the next sitting of the House.

(11) On presentation of the final Report of the Committee the Committee shall cease to exist.

That during the present session, unless otherwise ordered, Standing Order 49 be amended to read -

49. Any member, may propose in writing to the Speaker that a definite matter of public importance be submitted to the House for discussion provided that -

(a) such matters are submitted to the Speaker no later than 1.00 p.m. on any sitting day and immediately published.

(b) the Speaker in the event that more than one proposition is submitted shall determine which matter is of the greatest public importance.

(c) at least 30 minutes prior to the time for Questions without Notice -

(i) the Premier, the Leader of the Government, the Leader of the Opposition, the responsible minister in the House, members submitting notices and the Independent members shall be informed in writing by the Speaker of the matter determined by the Speaker to be discussed.

(ii) the Speaker, by placing a notice on notice boards, shall inform members of the matter.

(d) if the Speaker determines that any matter proposed is in order it shall be announced to the House by the Speaker before the calling of Questions.

(e) at the conclusion of formal business as provided for in Standing Order 74 the Speaker shall call the member concerned to move the motion as submitted. Such motion shall not be open to amendment.

(f) the mover of the motion and the member first speaking may speak for up to 15 minutes each, four other members may speak for up to 5 minutes and the mover in reply may speak for up to 10 minutes.

(g) Standing Order 175 shall not apply to this Sessional Order.

(h) there shall be no dissent from the ruling of the Speaker in relation to the operation of this Sessional Order.

That during the present session, unless otherwise ordered, so much of the Standing Orders be suspended as would preclude the adoption of the following procedure in relation to tabling of papers -

(a) ministers shall table papers after Question Time on the first sitting day of each week only or at other times by leave of the House.

(b) the Leader of the House, on the next day of sitting, shall give a Business of the House Notice of Motion regarding the printing of papers previously tabled.

(c) consideration of such Notice of Motion shall be open to amendment and debate. Any member speaking on such motion shall be limited to three minutes, including the minister in reply.

(d) the Speaker may call the minister in reply if the debate exceeds 30 minutes.

That during the present session, unless otherwise ordered -

With the leave of the House the Speaker may propose the question "That Private Members' Statements be noted" at any time between items of business.

That during the present session, unless otherwise ordered, Standing Order 80 be amended to read:

Questions on Notice shall not be openly read but shall be delivered to the Clerk or handed to one of the Clerks at the Table before Formal Business is entered upon as prescribed by Standing Order 74 provided that -

(a) members shall only be permitted to lodge five Questions on Notice during a sitting week, provided that the Leader of the Opposition shall be permitted to lodge twelve Questions on Notice during a sitting week.

(b) ministers shall lodge Answers to Questions on Notice within fifteen sitting days after the Question is first published and such answer shall be published forthwith.

(c) should an answer to a Question on Notice not be received within fifteen sitting days the Speaker shall forthwith draw the matter to the attention of the House and such minister shall thereupon inform the House of the reason for non-compliance with this Sessional

Page 12
Order.

(d) should the minister, having been heard in explanation, not submit an answer within three sitting days the Speaker shall again inform the House and the minister shall again be called with such procedure continuing until a written answer is submitted.

That during the present session, unless otherwise ordered, Standing Order 79 be amended to read -

79. Questions asked without notice may be read and are subject to the same rules as Questions on Notice, but neither the Question nor reply shall be recorded in the Votes and Proceedings: Provided that no Question shall be asked after the lapse of forty-five minutes from the Speaker calling on Questions or the answering of ten questions whichever is the later: Provided further that one supplementary question may be asked by a member asking the original question. Provided that:

(a) The Leader of the Opposition is entitled to be called first at the commencement of Questions.

(b) Ministers seeking to provide additional information to questions already answered do so at the conclusion of Question Time.

That during the present session, unless otherwise ordered, Standing Order 372 be amended to read -

372. The Report and associated documents of any Committee (not being a Legislation Committee) appointed by the House shall be presented pursuant to Standing Order 74, or at any other time with the leave of the House provided that -

(a) the member presenting such report may move "That the document be printed" which question shall be put without debate or amendment.

(b) the member presenting such report may then move "That the House take note of the Report" and may forthwith speak to the motion for 10 minutes. Upon which one other member of that Committee with a dissenting view may, by leave, speak for 5 minutes.

(c) reports from such Committees shall be set down by the Speaker for consideration in the order in which they are presented as Orders of the Day "That the House take note of the Report".

(d) such Orders of the Day shall have precedence between 1.00 p.m. and 2.00 p.m. on the last sitting day of each week.

(e) debate upon such motion shall be limited to 30 minutes. Any member who has not already spoken to the motion may speak for 5 minutes with the question being put after 30 minutes without reply.

(f) the Chairman may make a statement limited to 10 minutes to any report when announced by the Clerk as being presented during the adjournment of the House.

That during the present session, unless otherwise ordered, Standing Order 74 be amended to read -

74. The House shall proceed each day with its ordinary business in the following routine:

1. Ministerial Statements. 2. Questions. 3. Notice of Motions. 4. Papers (on the first sitting day of each week). 5. Presentation of Petitions. 6. Placing or Disposal of Business. 7. Formal Business. 8. Ministerial Statements. 9. Presentation of Committee Reports. 10. Matters of Public Importance. 11. Notice of Motions and Orders of the Day or vice versa, as set down on the Notice Paper or as provided by Sessional Orders, provided that on the last sitting day of each week business shall be proceeded with in the following routine -

(1) At 9.00 a.m. the Speaker shall go through General Business with a view to the placing or disposal of business.

(2) Consideration of General Business Notices of Motions for Bills (concluding not later that 10.00 a.m.)

(3) Suspension of Standing Orders for precedence of Orders of the Day for Public Bills introduced by Private Members.

(4) Consideration of General Business Orders of the Day for Bills.

(5) Consideration of General Business Notices of Motions or Orders of the Day (not being for Bills) concluding at 1.00 p.m. Items of business commenced but not concluded shall lapse.

(6) 1.00 p.m. to 2.00 p.m. consideration of Committee Reports presented (Speaker leaves Chair).

(7) 2.15 p.m. (Speaker resumes Chair).

(8) Ministerial Statements.

(9) Questions.

(10) Notice of Motions.

(11) Presentation of Petitions.

(12) Placing or Disposal of Business.

(13) Formal Business.

(14) Ministerial Statements.

(15) Presentation of Committee Reports.

(16) Matters of Public Importance.

(17) Business of the House.

(18) Government Business, provided that:

(a) if Government Business is unable to be proceeded with prior to 5.15 p.m. Private Members' Statements shall be noted.

(b) if there is no Government Business or Private Members' Statements prior to 5.15 p.m., consideration of General Business Notices of Motions or Orders of the Day (not being for Bills) with items of such General Business not concluded at 5.15 p.m. lapsing.

(19) At 5.15 p.m. Private Members' Statements.

(20) At 7.30 p.m. Government Business.

That during the present session, unless otherwise ordered -

When successive divisions are taken and -

(a) there is no intervening debate after the first division, or

(b) any intervening debate after the first division is of a limited nature and the Speaker or the Chairman of Committees, as the case may be, considers that sufficient time has elapsed after the division bell has been rung,

the Speaker or the Chairman of Committees may, with the leave of the House, order the doors to be locked and the vote taken.

That during the present session, unless otherwise ordered, Standing Order 395 be amended to read -

395. Any Standing Orders of the House may be suspended by any member by leave, provided that -

(i) the mover and one member shall be limited to five minutes each.

(ii) when the mover is a member not supporting the Government, the reply shall be by a minister and, when the mover is a member supporting the Government the reply shall be by the Leader of the Opposition or a member deputed by him.

(iii) such motions shall not be entertained during the time

Page 13
set aside for the taking of questions without notice.

(iv) the provisions of Standing Order 175 shall not apply.

That during the present session, unless otherwise ordered, Standing Order 142A be amended to read -

142A. The maximum period for which a member may speak on any subject shall not exceed the period specified opposite to that subject in the following schedule:

Address in Reply

Premier and Leader of the Opposition - unspecified
Mover - 20 minutes*
Any other member - 20 minutes*
Reply - 20 minutes*

Adjournment - Special

Mover - 30 minutes
Member 1st speaking thereafter - 30 minutes
Any other member - 10 minutes
Reply - 10 minutes

Censure or want of confidence

Mover - unspecified
Member 1st speaking thereafter - unspecified
Any other member - 20 minutes*
Reply - 20 minutes*

Substantive Motion

Mover - 30 minutes*
Member 1st speaking thereafter - 30 minutes*
Any other member - 20 minutes*
Reply - 20 minutes*

Private Members' Motions - Pursuant to S.O. 122A

Mover - 30 minutes
Member 1st speaking thereafter - 30 minutes
Any other member - 15 minutes
Reply - 15 minutes

* On question put and determined without amendment or debate, a member may be allowed, on request by that member, to continue that speech for a further period not exceeding ten minutes.

Bills

Second Reading:

(i) Introduced by a Minister

Mover - unspecified
Leader of the Opposition or one member

deputed by him, 1st speaking thereafter - unspecified

Any other member - 15 minutes+
Reply - unspecified

(ii) Appropriation Bill

Mover - unspecified
Party Leaders - unspecified
Any other member - 20 minutes*
Reply - unspecified

(iii) Introduced by a Private Member

Mover - unspecified
Premier or one minister deputed by him - unspecified
Leader of the Opposition or one member
deputed by him - unspecified
Any other member - 15 minutes+
Reply - unspecified

Suspension of Standing Orders

Mover - 5 minutes
One other member - 5 minutes

Suspension of Standing Orders - Public Bill Introduced by Private Members

Mover - Member in charge of the Bill - 3 minutes
One other member - 3 minutes

Private Members' Statements

10 members - 5 minutes
Replies by Ministers - 2 minutes

Printing of Papers

All members, including reply - 3 minutes

(The Speaker may call the Minister in reply if debate exceeds 30 minutes)

Consideration of Urgent Matters

Mover and member 1st speaking

thereafter - 10 minutes

Other members (limited to three) - 5 minutes
Reply - 5 minutes

Matters of Public Importance

Mover and member 1st speaking

thereafter - 15 minutes

4 other members - 5 minutes
Reply - 10 minutes

After Consideration of Urgent Matters:

Mover and member 1st speaking

thereafter - 10 minutes

One other members - 5 minutes
Reply - 5 minutes

Reports from Committees

(i) When presented take note debate:

Chairman's statement - 10 minutes
One other member of that committee
with a dissenting view (by leave) - 5 minutes

(ii) Last sitting day of each week:

Any member - 5 minutes
6 members only - (question being put after 30 minutes)

Election of Speaker or Chairman of Committees
(S.O.'s 9 & 28)

All members - 10 minutes

Accommodation for representatives of the Press

(S.O. 62A)

All members - 10 minutes

(The Speaker shall be entitled to put the Question after 30 minutes of debate)

Disallowance of Statutory Instruments (S.O. 113A)

All members, including reply - 10 minutes

(The Speaker shall be entitled to put the question after 60 minutes of debate)

Grievance Debate (S.O. 122B)

Members - 8 minutes
Ministers in reply - 3 minutes

Privilege (S.O. 158)

The member may speak for 10 minutes to establish a prima facie case.

Objections to the rulings of the Speaker (S.O. 161)

All members - 10 minutes

(The Speaker shall be entitled to put the question after 30 minutes of debate)

Objections to decisions of the Chairman of Committees (S.O. 162)

The member may speak for 5 minutes.

Debates not otherwise provided for

All members - 20 minutes*

Page 14

Committee of the Whole

Minister - Unspecified number of periods limited to 20 minutes each.

Leader of the Opposition or one member

deputed by him - Unspecified number of periods
limited to 20 minutes each.

Any other member:

Three periods each on any one question not exceeding -

(a) first occasion - 15 minutes

(b) subsequent occasions - 10 minutes then
- 5 minutes

* On question put and determined without amendment or debate, a member may be allowed, on request by that member, to continue that speech for a further period not exceeding ten minutes.

That during the present session, unless otherwise ordered -

Commencing from the first sitting Tuesday after the adoption of this Sessional Order and henceforth every fifteenth sitting day, the Speaker shall table a list of legislation remaining unproclaimed ninety days after assent.

The opportunity has been taken by the Standing Orders and Procedure Committee, with the Clerks, to tighten up procedures, as a result of the practice and experience of the Parliament, to ensure a better understanding by members of them. In particular, I draw the attention of honourable members to the proposed change with regard to estimates committees. Honourable members will recall that in the past it was a requirement to list all the procedures with regard to committees - their purpose, how they will be formed and who will serve on them. That is a mechanism better structured in the budget session. The Standing Orders and Procedure Committee posed the question whether if reference to estimates committees was not made at the beginning of this session, they would be abolished. Therefore, it was agreed that there shall be an appropriate measure of estimates committees. The amendment addresses that matter so that it can be better understood by honourable members.

These changes will streamline procedural matters relating to reports from committees. I ask honourable members to take note of that. Discussion on those reports on Thursdays between 1 p.m. and 2 p.m. will not be interfered with. They will specify when the mover of the motion to take note of a report can speak and other priorities in that regard. I should like to state my desire - and honourable members might take this on board - that in future legislation committee reports be linked back to the relevant bill, whether it be a government bill or a private member's bill. They should not be considered in isolation as part of the general routine of business. The whole concept of legislation committees is to allow consideration to take the place of an extended second reading debate or an extended committee procedure, to allow people to give evidence and for members of Parliament to gain a more in-depth knowledge of the particular measure before the Parliament. Rather than the matter being debated separately, it should be linked back to the bill. I commend the motion.

Mr WHELAN (Ashfield) [5.25]: The proposed sessional orders contain some important matters which all honourable members should be aware of, particularly in relation to speaking times. All honourable members should take note of times available for members to discuss any bill or matter before the Parliament. I am pleased the Government has not objected to or sought to remove the recently adopted consideration of an urgent matter. There has been much hue and cry about how cruel former Labor governments were, but there was nothing more cruel than Tim Moore's removal of a member's right to seek to suspend standing orders at any time. That has resulted in Government Ministers and Government backbenchers not being subjected to examination or cross-examination on matters which might arise urgently and which the Parliament should consider. However, I look forward to consideration of that matter as well. I agree that estimates committees were only partly satisfactory.

The Opposition has no objection to the Government seeking to streamline a system to make it work effectively. Clearly legislation committee reports should await deliberation not only by the committee but also by the Parliament when the relevant bill is debated. It is pointless a legislation committee reporting to the Parliament if the Government or the Opposition decides not to proceed with the bill. That would be a complete waste of time. For that reason perhaps the Clerks could take cognisance of what seems to be a unanimous agreement between the major parties on this issue. I am not aware of the view of the Independents, though I do not believe they would object. However, that is a matter for them. As to the printing of papers and questions on notice I move the following motion, which I have circulated:

That the question be amended by omitting from the proposed sessional order relating to questions on notice all words after "provided that" with a view to inserting the following words instead -

(a) Members shall be permitted to lodge all questions remaining unanswered as at the prorogation of the previous session of the same Parliament without effecting any limit.

(b) Members shall only be permitted to lodge three questions on notice per sitting day accumulative over one sitting week, provided that the Leader of the Opposition shall be permitted to lodge four questions on notice per sitting day accumulative over one sitting week.

(c) Ministers shall lodge answers to questions on notice within fifteen sitting days after the question is first published and such answer shall be published forthwith.

(d) Should an answer to a question on notice not be received within fifteen sitting days the Speaker shall forthwith draw the matter to the attention of the House and such Minister shall thereupon inform the House of the reason for non-compliance with this sessional order.

(e) Should the Minister, having been heard in explanation, not submit an answer within three sitting days the Speaker shall again inform the House and the Minister shall again be called with such procedure continuing until a written answer is submitted.

This proposal brings into focus the unanswered questions following upon the proroguing of the Parliament. The answers that honourable members have before them are only those answers that were submitted to the Clerks prior to 13th January, which was the official date for the proroguing of the Parliament. Today's paper contains many answers that honourable members have been seeking. However, Questions and Answers does not contain the answers to 301 outstanding questions. I hope that acceptance of this amendment will result in those questions being reinstated on the notice paper, and
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that the honourable member in whose name the question is standing will not be prejudiced as a result of his asking additional questions each week or each day. That is the purpose of the amendment. It may be argued that Ministers have not had enough time to answer the questions. There is no validity in that argument, because the departments and the Ministers had until 13th January to compile answers to the questions.

Mr Schipp: The Ministers are hard at work. They have been working hard on them.

Mr WHELAN: It might be hard work but in some instances Ministers have had several months to provide answers to the Parliament. The amendment also provides an additional benefit to members asking questions. At present standing orders state that a member may lodge only five questions on notice during a sitting week. My amendment will enable a member to lodge three questions a day, which would allow the asking of nine questions in a three-day week and 12 in a four-day week. Honourable members know that the provisions relating to the asking of questions on notice were grossly unsatisfactory. I urge all members to think seriously about this matter. It involves not only the rights of members to ask questions; it also implies that the limitation of five questions was an unnecessary restriction on the rights of members of Parliament.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is too much audible conversation in the Chamber. Members who wish to conduct private conversations should do so outside the Chamber so that members in the House may hear what is being said.

Mr WHELAN: As I said, 301 questions remained unanswered. The Opposition has been generous to Ministers and the bureaucrats that they represent here by proposing that tomorrow will be day one and there will be 15 days to answer all the dorothy dix questions that Opposition members have put on the notice paper - all the simple questions which will take little time to answer! It may save time if the Leader of the House would indicate that the Government intends to accept the amendment. The amendment to be moved by my colleague the honourable member for Riverstone relates to outstanding notices and private members bills. Essentially, it provides that the notices and private members' bills previously on the notice paper - including Government members' bills - will come back onto the notice paper. If the Government is persuaded by my argument -

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the Minister for Police to order.

Mr WHELAN: I did not know you were running for Leader of the House. Was there a spill somewhere? I think you have your hands full with the police department. Acceptance of the motion will allow the new arrangements to commence tomorrow. This would not greatly inconvenience the Government. All bills that have been dealt with partly or referred to committees will be dealt with. The bill on Khappinghat Reserve introduced by the honourable member for Manly, and other private members bills, including mine, will be deemed to be at the stage they had reached at the proroguing of Parliament. This proposal is a first. The Opposition has given it a lot of consideration. It had some procedural difficulties but they have been overcome. If unexpected difficulties arise, we will be able to deal with them.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for The Hills to order.

Mr WHELAN: No one has told me what the Government's attitude is to both the amendments. I ask the Government to adopt a commonsense approach and agree to the amendments.

Mr HATTON (South Coast) [5.35]: I commend the Government for the significant advances that have been made with regard to both the standing orders and the sessional orders which are now being debated. The working of estimates committees has progressively improved. The sessional orders contain a bland statement about the estimates committees. It was purposely inserted because more time was needed to improve further the working of the committees.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for St Marys to order.

Mr HATTON: I hope that after August we will be able to adopt a detailed standing order specifying how the estimates committees will work. I agree with the comments of the Leader of the House in regard to legislation committees. They have tended to get off track in the past in that they have not looked at the bill involved but have tried to look at the philosophy behind the bill. The whole purpose of the legislation committee is to pull the bill apart and report back to the House as would a Committee of the Whole. There was a degree of debate within the Standing Orders and Procedure Committee on how to decide what is a matter of public importance and the role of the Speaker in such a decision, and whether we should be looking at the format of the old Standing Order 49.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the Minister for Police to order for the second time.

Mr HATTON: Finally, when debating reports from committees we should not use up the time of the House with thank yous and backslapping but get into the nitty-gritty of whether the report satisfies the wishes of members of Parliament in an informed and detailed debate.

Mr WEST (Orange - Minister for Conservation and Land Management, and Minister for Energy) [5.37]: The Government will not oppose the amendment moved by the honourable member for Ashfield, but I wish to place on the record of the Parliament some of the hypocrisy that has been uttered in this House this afternoon. The honourable member said that restrictions were brought in by Tim Moore - big, bad Tim Moore. We must remember that the limitations on the number of questions were introduced as a result -

Mr J. J. Aquilina: On a point of order. I take it that the Minister is not speaking in reply to the debate.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! No, the Minister is speaking to the first amendment, which he has the right to do under standing orders.


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Mr J. J. Aquilina: So he is not closing off the debate?

Mr SPEAKER: No, he is not closing off the debate.

Mr WEST: I remind the House that there was an agreement of all members to limit the number of questions that could be put on the notice paper.

Mr Whelan: There was no agreement; you rolled it through.

Mr WEST: There was an agreement. The honourable member for Ashfield held up a thin little document containing 301 questions which were unanswered in the last session. He failed to tell the Parliament that when Labor was in government the notice paper was much thicker because there were more than 1,000 unanswered questions. There was no requirement on Ministers to answer questions. That is why the deal was done. The Government said that if there was to be an insistence on Ministers to answer questions within a set period, there must be a limit on the number of questions. We all know that it had become an art form for coalition members in opposition to ask difficult questions, and present Opposition members have the same capacity.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is too much interjection.

Mr WEST: It has been confirmed for me that in one session there were more than 1,000 unanswered questions on the notice paper.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! There is far too much interjection and, as I have stated on many occasions, far too much audible conversation in the Chamber. The Chair has endeavoured to be as tolerant as possible given that today is the opening day of the Parliament and we have all had a very pleasant afternoon. However, there is still business of the House to be conducted. I ask for the co-operation of members. Otherwise the Chair's patience will rapidly disappear and some members may get an early mark for the day.

Mr WEST: It is important that this House is reminded of that point. Another point that should be raised is the fact that the honourable member for Ashfield has said that the Government has not moved to change the urgency procedures. He has forgotten what was negotiated. The honourable member for South Coast, the honourable member for Bligh and the honourable member for Manly entered into an agreement with both sides of the Parliament that sought to prevent the ambush of government, to stop the charade. The Government instituted a formal procedure to take place immediately after question time so that matters of public importance could be raised. But the Opposition has forgotten about that arrangement. It believes it won those negotiations, but now it wants to go to the next step and reintroduce urgency motions. All honourable members should take on board the fact that deals cannot be arranged in this place because members of the Opposition will go and rat on you; they will keep on taking the next inch. Every time the Government gives a bit, the Opposition seeks to take a bit more. That is not the way this game should be played if this Parliament is to perform as it should.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the honourable member for Londonderry to order. I call the honourable member for Ashfield to order.

Mr WEST: This Parliament needs to be reminded of those important matters. The Government will not oppose the amendment before the House, but notice must be taken of the past history of these matters.

Mr J. J. AQUILINA (Riverstone) [5.42]: I echo the comments made in this debate by the honourable member for Ashfield and the honourable member for South Coast. The Standing Orders and Procedure Committee has reached consensus on a number of issues. I remind the Minister for Conservation and Land Management and Minister for Energy that if the Opposition had been bloody-minded at the most recent meeting of the Standing Orders and Procedure Committee a number of the matters we are now discussing would have been resolved by way of motion at that meeting and we would now be debating a motion carried by the Opposition because it had the numbers at that meeting of the committee. The Opposition has always approached the various changes to the standing and sessional orders by ensuring that they work to the benefit of honourable members.

At the prorogation of the last session of the Parliament approximately 40 private members' motions were listed on the business paper. That is a commendable record and it reflects the way in which all members of this Parliament are working to ensure that democracy prevails; it ensures that the privileges of members of Parliament are preserved. Those privileges have come about through long and arduous negotiation, with the help of the Independent members. They ensure that private members can move motions and have them passed. Under previous arrangements those members who have the carriage of the 40 items on the business paper would be required to move their motions again, deliver their second reading speeches and debate the matter. When we reach the end of this session we would probably be at precisely the same position that we reached at the conclusion of the last Parliament when not one motion was brought to completion. In order to bring about greater efficiency in respect of this matter I propose to move a motion in these terms:

That the question be amended by the addition of the following proposed sessional order -

That during the present session all notices of motions and orders of the day of current sitting private members undisposed of at the prorogation of the previous session of the same Parliament be now reinstated to the business paper at the same stage and order of precedence they had reached at the time of such prorogation.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I must point out to the honourable member for Riverstone that he is not in a position to move an amendment on a matter which is totally unrelated to the amendment that is already before the Chair. I cannot accept the amendment because it is not related to the first amendment. The honourable member also precludes himself of the right to subsequently move the amendment because he is
Page 17
deemed to have spoken already in the debate. I suggest to the honourable member that he may speak to this as a foreshadowed amendment, but for the sake of maintaining the forms of the House another member will have to move the motion formally later in the debate.

Mr J. J. AQUILINA: When the Minister was speaking in response to the amendment moved by the honourable member for Ashfield I took a point of order and was then advised that the Minister's participation in the debate at that stage did not close off the debate and did not preclude my moving a further amendment. It was my understanding that amendment had been dealt with by this House.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! No vote has been taken on the first amendment. The question I put when the honourable member for Riverstone sought the call was that the amendment be agreed to. I gave him the call and I am merely trying to assist him by giving him the process by which he must proceed. The amendment will have to be formally moved by another member.

Mr J. J. AQUILINA: My apologies. I was under the impression that the first amendment had been carried by this House. In that case, I foreshadow the amendment and seek leave to continue to speak to it.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! If the member wishes to foreshadow that another member will move the amendment, the first member may speak to it in anticipation at this juncture, but he cannot be given a second opportunity to speak. I am being as indulgent as I can.

Mr J. J. AQUILINA: I foreshadow the amendment. I appreciate the matter that has been raised. I had virtually concluded the comments I wished to make on the foreshadowed amendment. I seek to have this amendment moved in the House because, as I indicated earlier -

Mr Downy: You cannot speak to it.

Mr J. J. AQUILINA: I can speak to it.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I have indicated that the honourable member for Riverstone may speak in anticipation that another member will move the amendment later in the debate.

Mr J. J. AQUILINA: The reasons for the amendment are plain and clear: the Opposition wishes to ensure that private members have their say in this Chamber and that their rights and privileges are not eroded or hindered. If all of the motions that were listed on the business paper at the end of the previous session were debated fully, with second reading speeches being delivered and so on, the House would not have disposed of those matters and there would not have been sufficient time to introduce new motions. This foreshadowed amendment seeks to ensure that private members' rights are guaranteed.

Mr Photios: On a point of order. It is clear that the honourable member is canvassing the ruling and guidance by stating for the fourth or fifth time he is foreshadowing a motion. He should come back to the issue at hand which is the amendment before the House, not the foreshadowed amendment. The honourable member should be required to return to the amendment.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! No point of order is involved. I am ignoring those words that are inappropriate to the debate at this stage.

Mr J. J. AQUILINA: I wish to make it clear to the honourable member for Ermington that I do not propose to move the foreshadowed amendment; another member will do that. I am speaking to an amendment that is foreshadowed at this stage. Those honourable members who did not have the opportunity in the previous session to bring their business to finality should have the opportunity to do so now. I commend the foreshadowed amendment to the House.

Amendment agreed to.

Mr BECKROGE (Broken Hill) [5.48]: I move:

That the question be amended by the addition of the following proposed sessional order -

That during the present session all notices of motions and orders of the day of current sitting private members undisposed of at the prorogation of the previous session of the same Parliament be now reinstated to the business paper at the same stage and order of precedence they had reached at the time of such prorogation.

I do not propose to speak to the amendment.

Mr WEST (Orange - Minister for Conservation and Land Management, and Minister for Energy) [5.49]: The Government will not oppose this amendment. Two issues are involved: first, the right of honourable members to have reinstated general business, notices of motions to the stage they had reached last year. The Government has the right to do that, and at the conclusion of question time tomorrow it will seek to reinstate to the business paper legislation at the stage it had reached at the end of last session. The time of the House will not be wasted by the necessity to reintroduce second reading speeches.

The Government opposes the second aspect of the motion which seeks to reinstate to the business paper in order of precedence notices of motions and orders of the day that were listed at the conclusion of last year. Under this proposal every piece of legislation that was listed on the business paper will be reinstated. The amendment presupposes that those private members who have carriage of items listed under general business, notices of motions and orders of the day want items reinstated. If that is not the case the only course open to them is to withdraw the item at a later stage. The amendment will result in the unnecessary cluttering of the business paper. It will also erode the procedural rights of honourable members on private members' day.

The honourable member for Ashfield and I have had a number of discussions about the way in which private members' day should operate. It has been my belief, and I understand it is your belief, Mr Speaker, that if private members' day is to work, private members who have the carriage of bills or motions should inform the Speaker on that day whether they wish their items of business to proceed. The effect of the proposed amendment will be that by pro forma procedure a right of a private member will be taken
Page 18
away; the sessional order will provide for matters listed on the business paper at the end of the previous session to be reinstated automatically.

Those honourable members who had items listed on the business paper at the end of last session should have the right, after question time tomorrow, to ask the Speaker to have their bills or notices of motion reinstated on the business paper. This would preclude the necessity of dealing with every bill and notice of motion appearing on the business paper - I know that several of the items were introduced by private members who support the Government - that it is not proposed to proceed with. Some will be dealt with by the Government and others will be abandoned. The amendment will have the effect of cluttering the business paper with those items. I repeat: that is an unnecessary procedure which detracts from the principle of what private members' day is all about and what private members' legislation and motions are all about.

Mr WHELAN (Ashfield) [5.53]: What an absolute lot of codswallop! The Minister talks about effective time constraints in the Parliament. The amendment will have the effect of giving bills the same status they had prior to the Government's decision to prorogue the Parliament. It will mean that if comprehensive second reading speeches have been delivered on bills, the House will not need to spend hours listening to them being delivered a second time; such bills will be reinstated to the business paper with the same status they had when the Parliament last met. The real reason that the Government objects to the proposal - and it will not vote against the amendment because it does not have the numbers - is that it finds unpalatable some of the bills and notices of motions listed on the business paper at the end of last session, and it wants them off the agenda. The Government does not want to deal with the Garigal National Park bill. Which honourable members were here in the Parliament when the former member, Dr Metherell, introduced that legislation? I must say that the Opposition has thought about that aspect. That is why the effect of the amendment will ensure that the old Metherell Garigal National Park bill will not be reinstated, because the amendment relates only to sitting members of Parliament; it does not relate to former members. At the end of last session the honourable member for Monaro had on the business paper a motion relating to the fiftieth anniversary of the fall of Singapore. That is his right. His Government proposes to remove from the business paper a motion that he regards as important.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! Members will restrain themselves from such outbursts and the honourable member for Ashfield will address the Chair.

Mr WHELAN: The honourable member for Ermington wants the House to debate the constitutional monarchy and its politicisation by the Prime Minister. Do I understand that the Government's proposal to remove such motions from the notice paper has influenced the honourable member no longer to object to that course? Does he agree with the comments made by the Prime Minister? Is that what we are led to believe? The motion introduced by the honourable member for Campbelltown relating to the honourable member for The Hills would be removed also. Government members would not want that speech read a third time in the Parliament; they would not want to go through that agony again. My colleagues who represent the coalfields in Newcastle had on the business paper at the end of last session motion after motion that sought to have referred to various select committees matters relating to employment, the Tomago smelter and the investigation into Douglas Harry Rendell. They are all trying to look after their constituents, as are the honourable members representing the Illawarra. If the Government had its way, all those bills and motions would not be reinstated; they would have to be reintroduced. I am sick of the Government's crocodile tears. I am sick of it not owning up and telling the truth. The Government did not have the numbers at the Standing Orders and Procedure Committee meeting. It was only because the Opposition decided not to enforce its right to use its greater numbers that the proposed sessional orders came to the Parliament for debate.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I call the Minister for the Environment to order.

Mr WHELAN: Do not start this nonsense about the Opposition ramming things down the Government's throat. The Parliament makes the decisions. The reason this Parliament is taking so long to decide these simple issues is that the Government did not have the courtesy to tell me that it proposed to agree to the two Opposition amendments. That would have saved a lot of time. I gave the Government that courtesy earlier today. Ten days ago I advised the Standing Orders and Procedure Committee of what I intended to do. If this is how the Government intends the House to proceed for the next six to eight weeks, it must understand it will need the co-operation of the Opposition.

Mr HATTON (South Coast) [5.59]: The plain logic is that as at the end of last year private members had established their place in the queue. Because of events beyond their control they lost their place in the queue. Private members who want to withdraw their legislation can seek leave to do so; those private members who want to regain their place in the queue can seek to do that. But the House will determine the order in which those matters are dealt with. Honourable members would not deny that that is an efficient use of the time of this House, which costs many thousands of dollars each sitting day. Why should we not take up where we left off, make use of previous debate and the work of legislation committees, rather than incur the expense of additional sittings and preparation of reports? We should simply get on with what private members wanted to happen prior to prorogation. Finally, if circumstances change, in appropriate cases bills can be amended. This would constitute a logical and efficient use of the Parliament's time, and I support the amendment.

Amendment agreed to.

Motion as amended agreed to.

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Mr WEST (Orange - Minister for Conservation and Land Management, and Minister for Energy) [6.0]: I move:

That this House at its rising this day do adjourn until Thursday, 25th February, 1993, at 9 a.m.

Mr WHELAN (Ashfield) [6.1]: This motion brings a little more uncertainty to the Government's program, because honourable members are aware that Standing Order 37 provides that the Address-in-Reply debate will take precedence. That means that unless there is concurrence, honourable members will not know other than day by day the Government's intention in relation to the sitting program. I indicated in advance to the Government that the Opposition will seek to have three specific dates - Monday, 5th April, Tuesday, 6th April, and Wednesday, 7th April - set aside for the purpose of dealing with private members' business and that general business should take precedence over Government business on those days. In addition, I understand that the Government has abandoned its plan to have the reserve dates of Tuesday, 25th May, Wednesday, 26th May, and Thursday, 27th May, set aside for Government business. Because of that, the Opposition intends to move that the Parliament sit on those days for the purpose of considering private members' business only, and the latter dates to which I referred will be utilised only -

Mr SPEAKER: Order! Before the honourable member for Ashfield proceeds, I ask him to explain the relevance of the matters to which he is referring to a motion that the House adjourn until 9 a.m. tomorrow. His remarks seem to me to be out of order.

Mr WHELAN: On the business program for Wednesday, 24th February, item 15 refers to the sitting program for autumn. That appears on the parliamentary agenda and it has not been considered.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! The document to which the honourable member for Ashfield refers is an unofficial business paper, as he well knows, and does not relate to the official procedures of the House. It is issued, as it always has been, merely as a guide to members. The Government can include in or leave off that document whatever it wants. The item to which the honourable member refers is not part of the business paper for today and I cannot understand how his remarks have any relevance to debate on a special adjournment motion.

Mr WHELAN: The Minister has moved a special adjournment motion. That is why I decided to put my arguments to the Government. The Government can reconsider the position in relation to the day-by-day adjournment of the running of the Parliament. Honourable members want to be able to put parliamentary sitting dates in their diaries.

Mr SPEAKER: Order! The honourable member for Ashfield well knows, or should well know, the procedural necessity for moving the special adjournment motion. Even if he does not, the motion seeks only to adjourn the House until 9 a.m. tomorrow, at which time the further sittings of the House can be debated. If the special adjournment motion were to adjourn the House until the end of May, or something of that nature, the honourable member for Ashfield may have been able to argue, for the reasons he has given, that the House should meet earlier than that. I cannot understand how the matters to which he is now alluding, which relate to events beyond the time referred to in the motion, have any relevance to the debate.

[Interruption]

Mr WHELAN: I have made the point that at 9 a.m. tomorrow the honourable member for South Coast will have lost his opportunity because under Standing Order 37 the Address-in-Reply debate takes precedence.

Mr West: What a lot of nonsense!

Mr WHELAN: Be warned! Honourable members will only know day by day whether the Parliament will sit the next day. They should read Standing Order 37. I detect from the remarks of the honourable member for South Coast that if I moved that the motion of the Minister be amended to provide that the House adjourn until 8.30 a.m. tomorrow instead of 9 a.m., he would oppose the amendment. That means that such a motion would be defeated. Not only would the motion be defeated; honourable members would lose the opportunity to set with any certainty the sitting program of the Parliament. Surely honourable members deserve that right. Whether the Government has put the item on an official or unofficial document, it is there for everyone to see. Why has the Government issued an autumn session program for 1993 which will not be adopted today? What is the agenda?

[Interruption]

Would the honourable member for South Coast support a motion to adjourn the House until 8.30 a.m. tomorrow?

Mr SPEAKER: Order! I advise the honourable member for Ashfield of the substance or otherwise of the unofficial business paper. He well knows that when the House resumes tomorrow, it will meet under a formula that has been adopted under the standing orders. The circumstances to which he refers cannot arise. Members will have the opportunity to debate the autumn sitting program. Unless he wishes to suggest reasons why the House should not resume at 9 a.m. tomorrow, I will assume that he has concluded his remarks and put the question.

Mr WHELAN: I understand that there is no purpose in moving a motion that the House resume at 8.30 a.m. tomorrow to consider the matter further. However, I want honourable members to acknowledge the Opposition's view on the matter, and I ask them to read the first half dozen paragraphs of the Governor's Speech. They will then be aware that what I have said is correct.

Mr HATTON (South Coast) [6.5]: I merely seek an assurance from the Government that
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tomorrow it will seek the leave of the House to set the program for the autumn session.
Mr WEST (Orange - Minister for Conservation and Land Management, and Minister for Energy) [6.5], in reply: Obviously I have had discussions with the honourable member for South Coast and his colleagues. In addition, I indicated across the Chamber this afternoon to the honourable member for Ashfield that I did not intend to move that particular motion today but at a later stage of the sitting. The Opposition has clearly indicated - and I referred to this in an earlier debate - that it wants to set aside 5th, 6th and 7th April for private members' business. The Government does not believe the Opposition has the right to set those dates for that purpose when other Government business has to be dealt with. If there are to be additional sitting times, the Government clearly has the right to select weeks which suit Government business and to then move the relevant amendments in the Parliament. That is what I signalled earlier.

Motion agreed to.