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The Hon. DUNCAN GAY: My question is directed to the Minister for Primary Industries. Is the Minister aware that a spokesperson from his office was quoted in the Australian Financial Review last Friday as saying that I pulled the figure of 325 job losses from the Department of Primary Industries merger out of thin air? Is the Minister further aware that the 2004-05 Budget Paper No. 3, volume 2, clearly states that there will be 310 fewer agriculture jobs and 15 fewer fisheries jobs than there were last year, totalling 325 job losses, as I stated, for this financial year? Why is the Minister misleading the media and the public about job losses when the Government has spelt them out in black and white in its budget papers?
The Hon. IAN MACDONALD: The honourable member is quite correct when he said that Budget Paper No. 3 mentions approximately 310 to 325 job losses, but we have to remember that there is considerable distance between cup and lip in terms of the proposal.
The Hon. Duncan Gay: So the budget papers are not right; is that what you are saying?
The Hon. IAN MACDONALD: No, I am not saying that. The Treasurer made it clear that there was a series of steps to be taken to meet the savings cuts proposed in the budget. They include some revenue-raising propositions that, of course, the Deputy Leader of the Opposition is missing entirely. But I have something even more interesting than the question asked by the Hon. Duncan Gay about which I will comment.
The Hon. Duncan Gay: Point of order: On the subject of relevance—
The Hon. IAN MACDONALD: I haven't even said what it is.
The Hon. Duncan Gay: The Minister did not need to. He led with his chin; he said, "I have something more interesting than the question asked by the Hon. Duncan Gay". Clearly, that indicates that what he is about to say is out of order in terms of relevance to the question.
The PRESIDENT: Order! I need to hear what the Minister has to say before I can rule whether it is in order.
The Hon. IAN MACDONALD: Last Thursday Mr Piccoli in the other Chamber made the mistake of contributing to debate on the budget based on what the Deputy Leader of the Opposition said in this House on Thursday night—rather prematurely—in the adjournment debate.
The Hon. Duncan Gay: Point of order: The Minister is clearly out of order. He is talking about a so-called secret meeting when the question was specifically about the Minister and the Minister's spokeswoman misleading the House and the public on 325 job losses. On more than one occasion I have indicated to the Minister that if he wants to make a ministerial statement on any of this material I am more than willing to pin my ears back and take him on.
The Hon. IAN MACDONALD: What I am going to read out is clearly relevant to the budget. As a consequence I should be given the opportunity provided by this Chamber of informing not only members of this House but also, through Hansard, the staff across the whole of the Department of Agriculture and Fisheries.
The PRESIDENT: Order! Although, traditionally, members are allowed some latitude with regard to general comment when answering questions, I remind the Minister that his answer must be relevant.
The Hon. Rick Colless: It's about misleading the media.
The Hon. IAN MACDONALD: There is no misleading the media involved in this. The plain fact is that the proposal put forward by the department last Thursday is being discussed with the unions and staff.
The Hon. Duncan Gay: What about you saying that I pulled the number out of the air? Answer that!
The Hon. IAN MACDONALD: I never said the honourable member pulled a number out of the air.
The Hon. Duncan Gay: Yes, you did.
The Hon. Rick Colless: Your office did.
The Hon. IAN MACDONALD: The Hon. Rick Colless said my office did. That is another issue. The Deputy Leader of the Opposition is saying I said it. The plain fact is that the final figure to be determined will be made after we have considerable negotiations—
The Hon. Duncan Gay: No, the budget is quite specific.
The Hon. IAN MACDONALD: The budget does not set the exact number.
The Hon. Duncan Gay: Yes it does.
The Hon. IAN MACDONALD: It does not set an exact number. It is an indicative figure suggested by Treasury. It may be more or less. That situation is dependent upon negotiations with the unions and the staff.
The Hon. DUNCAN GAY: I ask a supplementary question. In light of that answer, is the Minister aware that during his watch the budget papers indicate that there has been a total loss of 450 staff in the two years that he has been Minister. Does the Minister and his spokeswoman need remedial attention in learning how to read the budget papers?
The Hon. IAN MACDONALD: No, we certainly do not. The plain fact is that it is an indicative figure in the budget papers. But there is a long way to go in terms of negotiations in relation to the restructure. We cannot put any figure on it at this stage. The honourable member is jumping up and down, scaring staff, about an indicative figure. The final figure will be determined after a process of negotiation—totally and utterly!