Debate resumed from 13 March 2009.

Mr GEOFF PROVEST (Tweed) [4.03 p.m.]: The Transport Administration Amendment (CountryLink Pensioner Booking Fee Abolition) Bill 2009 was introduced by the member for Willoughby. This is an important bill that seeks to abolish booking fees associated with pensioner travel on CountryLink rail and coach services. I believe this is an important piece of legislation because of the demographics of my electorate and the high percentage of CountryLink service users in the Tweed. I remind members that just on 27 per cent of the population in the Tweed electorate is over the age of 65. In fact, we have more people over 65 than any other of the 92 electorates in New South Wales, and this fee is a direct slap in their face.

The current CountryLink service to Tweed involves travelling by XPT from Sydney to Casino and then by coach to Tweed Heads. CountryLink services enjoy a high level of patronage in the Tweed. Pensioners, in particular, use the services to travel south to major city centres often for urgent medical treatment and to visit friends and relatives. Let us not forget that these are people who have worked all their life, usually in this State, who have paid their taxes and who have contributed to the success of New South Wales. However, this Labor Government has seen fit to continue to impose a fee that hits some of the hardest done by people in our community. These people live on fixed incomes and struggle from week to week to carve out a basic living and this Government is imposing an extra burden on them.

In March 2006 CountryLink applied a booking fee to pensioner travel vouchers. Under this arrangement pensioners using their travel vouchers to pay for their trip are hit with a compulsory booking fee equivalent to 15 per cent of the full adult fare for the entire journey or a maximum of $10. That is excessive, even for a reasonably well off patron of CountryLink services. However, it is particularly harsh on pensioners, who no longer work full time and who must carefully budget how they spend their limited funds. We have heard in this House in recent times about the global financial crisis and the effect it will have on our local communities. Once again, the Labor Government is so far out of touch with the general community feeling that it has imposed yet another tax—and this is a tax.

I challenged the Minister for Transport to explain the sense of imposing this booking fee on pensioners in July 2007. I argued that the Minister had failed to consult Tweed pensioners about the reasons for introducing this fee after scrapping the CountryLink XPT service to Tweed Heads. We do not have a train service to Tweed Heads; the Government saw fit to scrap it. As the member for Lismore well knows, 17 May is the fifth anniversary of the scrapping of that service.

Mr Thomas George: We will have a big birthday cake.

Mr GEOFF PROVEST: We will mark the occasion with a birthday cake. We have campaigned tirelessly about that service. Our colleagues in the upper House have released a cross-border transport paper. Then Premier Morris Iemma and his Queensland counterpart Peter Beattie commissioned a cross-border transport report. Obviously, the XPT would be an important part of that. Two years later we have a five-page document. The original media statement released by both Premiers stated that the high-level report would discuss the future of rail, road and public transport from now until 2025. That five-page report demonstrates how much the New South Wales Labor Government worries about the future, particularly of regional and country New South Wales.

I find it absurd that CountryLink patrons, who comprise one-third of all rail passengers in New South Wales, receive only one-tenth of government service subsidies and are slugged with an unnecessary and unfair booking fee when passengers living in city centres using CityRail services receive more in subsidies but pay no additional taxes. In debating this bill it is important to acknowledge declining CountryLink patronage throughout New South Wales. An analysis of RailCorp's annual report shows that CountryLink patronage has declined from 1.9 million journeys in 2003-04 to 1.5 million in 2007-08. I have no doubt that the hefty booking fee has aided that decline in patronage, especially amongst pensioners.

The abolition of this fee would be a step in the right direction towards boosting patronage. We should be promoting train travel. We have often heard in this Chamber about the effects of climate change, global warming and so on. However, the Government has introduced a measure that will discourage people from using public transport. I am sure that abolishing this booking fee would boost CountryLink patronage back to the levels recorded in 2003-04.

It came to my attention recently that there has been a revamping of the ticket booking system in Queensland. This happened some months ago. At that time the Queensland Labor Government approached our Minister for Transport and offered to upgrade the ticketing system in our buses so it would be compatible with Queensland. It was told that New South Wales was not interested. Last year a pensioner could buy a ticket in Kingscliff and travel all the way to Robina for health services, no problem at all—one ticket would take that person all the way. But because of the failure, once again, of the Minister for Transport in New South Wales, that pensioner has to get off the bus in Coolangatta and purchase a full-fare ticket to travel the remaining distance in Queensland. The lack of coordination between Labor governments in Queensland and New South Wales is unbelievable.

Given that CountryLink has operated an e-ticketing system since 2006-07, I question the logic of keeping in place such a costly booking fee for full pensioners using the service. The system, referred to as the CountryLink reservation system, essentially allows passengers to book themselves on CountryLink services by means of the CountryLink website and permits payment by credit card or through a visit to a post office, negating the need to visit booking centres. In my mind it makes little sense to continue charging this hefty fee on pensioners when they are carrying out the majority of the booking process for their travel needs themselves. This is nothing more than an extra tax on the poor pensioners of New South Wales. As I said when this unfair fee was introduced, the Labor Government has public transport in the Tweed the wrong way around. It abolished our train service and introduced a booking fee; it should have abolished the booking fee and reintroduced the train service.

We continually push the needs of rural New South Wales because they are being neglected time and again in Sydney. There is more to New South Wales than Newcastle, Sydney and Wollongong. Many great people, including pensioners, have contributed to this fine State and they are continually stabbed in the back, hit in the pocket and treated like second-class citizens. I for one will not tolerate it, and I will continue to raise their case here, because once again I am 100 per cent committed for the Tweed.

Mr ANDREW FRASER (Coffs Harbour) [4.12 p.m.]: Today I speak to support the pensioners not only in my electorate but right across regional New South Wales. The Transport Administration Amendment (CountryLink Pensioner Booking Fee Abolition) Bill 2009 defines a number of things. It states:

CountryLink means the business unit formed by RailCorp to operate non-metropolitan long-distance railway services and other transport services.

For those who do not know, Coffs Harbour is located halfway between Brisbane and Sydney. We have a high number of retired people, and a large number of those are pensioners. Quite often they travel away for medical reasons—and often they are not entitled to Isolated Patients Travel and Accommodation Assistance Scheme payments—or to visit family at Christmas or for birthday celebrations, and so on. The Government is placing an impost on those people by charging a booking fee. As I said, Coffs Harbour is approximately mid-distance between Brisbane and Sydney. The people who live in Coffs Harbour should be given similar opportunities to their city cousins. Pensioners in Sydney can use a pensioner excursion ticket, jump on a bus, train or ferry, and go wherever they want for $2.50 a day. The bill also provides:

NSW/ACT pensioner means any of the following persons whose ordinary place of residence is in New South Wales or the Australian Capital Territory:

(a) a person who receives a pension, benefit or allowance under Chapter 2 of the Social Security Act 1991 of the Commonwealth, or service pension under Part III of the Veterans' Entitlements Act 1986 of the Commonwealth, and who is the holder of a pensioner concession card issued by or on behalf of the Commonwealth Government,

(b) a person who receives a pension from the Commonwealth Department of Veterans' Affairs as:

(i) the widow or widower of a member of the Australian Defence or Peacekeeping Forces, or

(ii) the unmarried mother of a deceased unmarried member of either of these Forces, or

(iii) the widowed mother of a deceased unmarried member of either of those Forces,

and who is the holder of a Transport Concession Card issued by the Commonwealth Department of Veterans' Affairs.

Penalising returned men and women, or widows or widowers of returned men or women, by charging them a booking fee to visit their families will not make a huge difference to the deficit that will be announced by this Government in its budget. However, scrapping that booking fee will give some equity to people living in regional and rural New South Wales who have to visit relatives and friends. In many cases the spouses of people living in country electorates may be buried in Sydney. It may be just an annual pilgrimage for some people to come down for Anzac Day or to visit the graves or memorials of their loved ones. If they want to travel by train, they will be slugged by a booking fee. The people working in CountryLink are paid anyway. The booking fee makes no difference to their salaries and no difference to their time. These country people should be able to go in and book the seat, which supposedly is supplied free, without the impost of a booking fee. If memory serves me right, the booking fee is about $30 for pensioners to travel from Coffs Harbour to Sydney and return.

Mr Steve Cansdell: It is $30.

Mr ANDREW FRASER: Yes, $30. These pensioners are not what one would call overly endowed with cash. As we have seen in the media of late, they are imploring Mr Rudd and, in his budget, Mr Swan to give them another $30 a week. If pensioners get that $30 a week increase, it will go in the booking fee if they wish to travel on CountryLink. Coffs Harbour is blessed. It has an excellent air service provided by both Qantas Link and Virgin, but a lot of elderly people will not fly. They enjoy the train travel; it is more relaxing, they can move around and arrive somewhat refreshed in Sydney. However, they are discouraged from travelling because of this $30. All we are asking for is equity.

The member for Wollongong is in the House. People in her electorate are probably being charged this booking fee—or are they on the free rail ticket? Members of the Labor Party should be asking the same questions we are asking: Why are these people being penalised? They should be supporting the legislation of the shadow Minister. They should be rallying their Government to say that this $30 fee is unfair. Most of these people are pensioners. The definition in the bill that I read earlier refers to returned personnel or widows or widowers of returned personnel. Surely some consideration must be given to the service they gave this country and they should be exempted. Other pensioners who have contributed to the wealth of this nation through their lifetime of work should be exempted, as should anyone with a disability. They should be given the opportunity to travel without this insidious $30 fee. I commend the bill to the House.

Mr PETER BESSELING (Port Macquarie) [4.19 p.m.]: I speak briefly in support of the Transport Administration Amendment (CountryLink Pensioner Booking Fee Abolition) Bill 2009. The objectives of the bill are to abolish the booking fees on the use of pensioner travel vouchers and passes on CountryLink rail services. Port Macquarie has a large elderly population with an average age of 44 compared with the State average of 37 years of age. Many of my constituents are pensioners and many of them struggle on a daily basis to meet their basic needs. We should provide every support we can to make their lives less stressful. The Government should certainly consider abolishing the booking fee that is imposed when they travel to see families, friends or even go shopping. We should not be penny-pinching but support them wherever possible.

I note that recently the Government introduced the RED [regional excursion daily] ticket scheme, which was well received in my area. Indeed, the patronage of the local bus company, Busways, has improved as a result of that scheme. The RED ticket scheme is excellent for country and rural areas, particularly Port Macquarie, Camden Haven, Kew, Kendall and Harrington. It is unusual that, on the one hand, the Government supports schemes for regional areas for people with concession tickets such as pensioners to be able to get around their electorates and to travel and, on the other hand, we still have this booking fee attached to travelling on CountryLink rail services.

I point out that the CountryLink service does not go through Port Macquarie itself; it cuts through Wauchope. Therefore, many people in my area must travel to Wauchope to catch the CountryLink train. This is an additional burden, especially for pensioners, who must arrange transport through family or friends. Those who do not have that luxury need to arrange a bus or even a taxi, which is an additional impost on people in rural and regional areas. I ask the Government to take that matter into account. The addition of those bus or taxi fares, on top of the booking fees, makes it difficult to encourage pensioners to catch the train and often they use alternative transport.

I have received a number of letters of complaint about this booking fee. The Government in its wisdom should consider abolishing the booking fee because it affects so many people in regional New South Wales. In particular, it affects those who do not have ready access to CountryLink services and must travel to other areas to access those services. I support the objects of the bill to abolish booking fees on the use of pensioner travel vouchers and passes on CountryLink rail services.

Mr STEVE CANSDELL (Clarence) [4.23 p.m.]: I support the Transport Administration Amendment (CountryLink Pensioner Booking Fee Abolition) Bill 2009, which was introduced by the shadow Minister for Transport and the member for Willoughby, Gladys Berejiklian. This important amendment bill seeks to abolish booking fees associated with pensioners travelling on CountryLink rail and coach services. The demographics of northern New South Wales mean that this is an attack on elderly people, pensioners and the disadvantaged in country New South Wales, particularly residents in the Clarence whom I represent. People in country New South Wales are disadvantaged because they have no public transport. Pensioners in Sydney can jump on a train or bus and travel around the city at little or no cost. Country people do not have that luxury. People from the Clarence, the Richmond and Casino areas have to travel to southern areas to visit family and friends.

It is acknowledged that northern New South Wales is the fastest growing area in New South Wales, if not Australia, and many elderly people move from the city to the North Coast to retire. However, they still travel to Sydney to visit children, grandchildren and loved ones or to access medical services. This is not just a $10 booking fee; it is $10 or 15 per cent of the cost, whichever is the greater. A person travelling from Grafton or Casino to Sydney and return will have to pay $30. This amount may not seem too much for people who work, but it is a significant amount to pensioners. Members of Parliament receive a reasonable salary so we would not mind paying $30 to jump on a train. However, people on the minimum pension find this a great cost, which affects their living conditions and deprives them of necessities. I find it absurd that country patrons, who make up one-third of all rail passengers in New South Wales, receive only one-tenth of the government service subsidies. They are slugged with this unnecessary and unfair booking fee. City passengers who use the CityRail service receive much more funding.

In debating the bill it is also important to consider the declining patronage of CountryLink services. When the booking fee was introduced in 2006 pensioner bookings decreased by 36,000 during the first six months. Without being too conspiratorial, one wonders whether this situation is similar to that of the Casino to Murwillumbah rail line. The Government promised not to close that line and to continue the service, but in 2004 Michael Costa just put the brakes on and shut down the line. With the drop in CountryLink patronage of 36,000, the Government might suggest that it is not worth keeping the service because the community is not supporting it. It might cut services or change schedules. Services would then be used less frequently because the times were not convenient, such as trains arriving in Sydney at midnight or some other ungodly hour. Patronage would drop further, which is a great reason for Treasury and the Government, which is in dire financial straits, to cut the service altogether. Some would suggest the Government would not do that, but we said the same about the Casino to Murwillumbah service.

I can say this: The Casino to Murwillumbah service is not off the rails. It is still on track so long as the Government does not do anything stupid, like trying to sell off the land before the next election. Members representing the North Coast have been fighting hard for this service and to put pressure on the Coalition to go to the next election with a commitment to restore that rail service. People can travel anywhere they want in Sydney by train or by bus, but people in the country do not have that option. If a light rail system had six services a day, people could travel from Casino Lismore, Bangalow, Byron Bay, Mullumbimby and Murwillumbah. The Government would do this if it were forward thinking and considered the massive future growth of the North Coast and if it took advantage of capitalising on the tremendous tourism opportunities from Queensland. The Queensland Labor Government is a progressive Government that looks to the future, not the past.

The Queensland Government is seeking to grow its State, rather than simply hold government with spin and no substance. That Government is extending the rail to Coolangatta, so it can capitalise on the massive tourism opportunities generated by the airport at Coolangatta. Here is an opportunity for New South Wales to reinstate a light rail service from Casino to Murwillumbah, then extend that service by 20 kilometres to Coolangatta, and perhaps hook it up with the Queensland service. The Queensland tourism opportunities are there for everyone, including the people in this State. Links could be provided from the Tweed down to Murwillumbah, then from Murwillumbah to Mullumbimby, Byron Bay, Bangalow, Lismore and Casino, and then perhaps the service could be hooked up to the mid North Coast service.

I cannot understand a government that constantly talks progressively but acts negatively by simply wasting money, putting a lot of money into spin, and hiring spin doctors by the dozen. They are usually the spin doctors that got Carr up there and then jumped ship when he left—they jumped off the Titanic. They also helped Rudd get in. Now that he is there, they have jumped off again and they are trying to save the sinking ship. If they want to save a sinking ship and actually do something positive, they can say, "Here is a really good way to boost New South Wales, to start taking off Queensland instead of giving to Queensland." In New South Wales, with a stamp duty and all the other taxes, I think our State taxes are about $2,600 per man, woman and child. In contrast, Queensland State taxes are about $1,400 per man, woman and child. If you were running a business, why would you not jump the border and go to Queensland? Here is an opportunity for the New South Wales Government to grab some of that money back, by reinstating a rail link service from Casino to Murwillumbah, and then extending the service by 20 kilometres to Coolangatta, to take advantage of the tourism promotion that Queensland is engaging in to get people into that State.

The object of the bill is to scrap the pensioner booking fee. As I said earlier and as others have said, the fee is an impost on our elderly, the people who have worked their butts off and paid taxes all their lives. It is disgraceful that pensioners are hit with a $30 booking fee to travel from Grafton to Sydney and return. As I said, these people travel to Sydney to visit family members or to see doctors and specialists. The fee is really hitting them. As the member for Coffs Harbour said, war veterans who fought for this country risked their lives. War widows—the women whose husbands have died through injuries sustained in the war—are the ones who are paying this $30 fee. They are the ones the Government is hitting right between the eyes and in the pocket. The Government is taking away their standard of living. That money could go towards paying for their food, their doctors' bills, and many other things. The CountryLink booking fee is nothing more than a tax on the people in our society who can least afford to pay it. I support the bill introduced by the member for Willoughby.

Mr MALCOLM KERR (Cronulla) [4.33 p.m.]: It is interesting that not one member of the Government has defended the CountryLink booking fee. It is simply indefensible. As every member who has spoken in this debate has said, whether they be Independent members or Opposition members, the fee is an impost on the people who can least afford it. This is an attack on the aged in our community—the people who, in many cases, have fought for their country, people who all their lives have worked and paid taxes in order to ensure that the services the Government provides, at enormous cost to the taxpayers of New South Wales, can be sustained. These people fought to establish the great community we live in. Yet what does the Government do in response to their achievements? It hits them with an additional tax that they can least afford, at a time in their lives when they can least afford it.

The residents of my electorate have to pay CountryLink booking fees if they want to travel to country areas to visit family members. People who have moved away from the Sutherland shire and are now living in country areas may want to return to Sydney to visit family members and friends here. The Government has inflicted social exclusion upon those people by implementing the booking fee. As members have said, the Government chooses to spend its money on projects such as a desalination plant. The Minister for Water, who is at the table, knows all about that.

Mr Phillip Costa: A great project.

Mr MALCOLM KERR: The Minister says, "A great project." It is a great pity that that great project will not be used unless the dam levels fall below 30 per cent. I can assure the Minister that the people of New South Wales cannot afford any more greatness from him. They are paying billions of dollars for his greatness. I can only describe the desalination plant as a great mistake. However, I will not be diverted from the leave of the Transport Administration Amendment (CountryLink Pensioner Booking Fee Abolition) Bill 2009.

Ms Katrina Hodgkinson: How is the desalination plant going?

Mr MALCOLM KERR: The desalination plant is not going too well. I will speak about the desalination plant piping and a number of other issues on a later date. What is important here, however, is the cost that will be imposed upon the most vulnerable people in our community. The Opposition is all about providing hope and progress to the people of New South Wales.

Ms KATRINA HODGKINSON (Burrinjuck) [4.36 p.m.]: I fully support the Transport Administration Amendment (CountryLink Pensioner Booking Fee Abolition) Bill 2009, which has been introduced by the member for Willoughby and shadow Minister for Transport. The member has introduced the bill on several occasions in the past. She introduced it in this House in October 2007. However, Parliamentary Counsel advised us that because the Government had prevented the bill from being voted on on at least three occasions it had to be resubmitted as a new bill this year. It was absolutely bizarre. Apparently it is the first time this has ever happened. It simply proves that clearly the State Government is extremely embarrassed by the subject matter and it does not want to go to a vote on the issue. The only change to the original bill, however, is the date in the title.

I congratulate the shadow Minister on pushing forward with the legislation. The issue has been brought to my attention on many occasions in my capacity as a member of Parliament representing a large rural-based electorate. A petition signed by many, many people was circulated throughout my electorate; it was extremely popular. Subsequently I presented the petition in this House. However, as we know, these days the Clerk does not read to the House the subject matter of the petitions that have been lodged; the petitions are simply printed in Hansard the following day. That spares the Minister of the day the embarrassment of having the petitions read out, which I am totally against. Often Opposition members call out, "Read out the petitions!" It is important that Ministers are faced with that additional pressure on the floor of the House, as to the issues raised in the petitions presented by members on both sides of the House.

The booking fee has resulted in pensioners being subjected to more than $7 million in additional tax over the past two years. The booking fee is either $10 each way or 15 per cent of the total fare, whichever is the greater. It is the sign of a very sick government when it goes to extreme measures to try to rip money out of pensioners pockets. Pensioners who are struggling come to see me in my office all the time, or when I do constituent interviews in the various towns of my electorate. With their hearts on their sleeves they say to me, "We are struggling to pay for our electricity bills. We are struggling to pay for our phone bills. We don't know if we can keep the phone on." In some cases they get rid of their phones. Pensioners are struggling to put petrol in their motor vehicles because the pension just does not go far enough for them. When they finally have to give up their car because they cannot afford to put petrol in it, they might not necessarily be able to access community transport when they need to in order to attend medical services or to get to another town to shop at a larger supermarket. They might want to travel to a larger centre to buy a special gift for a grandchild or a loved one. They might want to travel interstate, to Canberra or Sydney to attend a funeral or a special medical appointment.

This pensioner booking tax is really crippling the pensioners of this State—the most vulnerable in our society. Country members understand the hardships that the pensioners of their electorates face, but it is more difficult for their city counterparts to comprehend. People in the metropolitan area with Seniors Cards are able to access the CityRail network with a $2.50 ticket, while country people must rely on CountryLink for transport between point A and point B and do not enjoy that advantage. The Government should recognise that country people who suffer from cancer or other serious illnesses have great difficulty in accessing medical services because of the tyranny of distance. I implore the Government to listen to the Opposition and scrap the CountryLink booking fee. It is a terrible tax on pensioners who must rely on the only form of public transport in their areas and who are struggling to pay the fee. I know that many pensioners are going without because they cannot afford this insidious tax.

I have opposed the booking fee since its introduction. It is nothing more than a grab for the precious income of pensioners. If the Government were not so incompetent and out of touch its members would be in agreement with the Opposition, but they are very quiet on this matter. I have spoken about this matter at length since the bill was introduced in October 2007. The reintroduction of the bill by the Coalition sends a clear message to the Government that it has failed the people of New South Wales. The Government has introduced an unfair tax on pensioners. I call on the responsible Minister to abolish the tax. The Minister for Transport gets around in his nice, shiny, white car and he probably has a driver. He would also be on a very high salary and I assume he receives free travel. I ask the Minister to think about the pensioners of this State who struggle to get on a CountryLink service and who are being pressured to pay the additional booking fee or unconscionable tax.

With on-time running being so poor in New South Wales an additional tax can hardly be justified on top of the fares people already pay. From 1 September 2007, CountryLink fares rose by 4.8 per cent. For example, standard economy one-way travel from Sydney to Dubbo now costs an extra $3.60, and from Sydney to Albury an extra $4.70. From Sydney to nearly any rural area to which CountryLink travels, fare prices have increased. As at the date the member for Willoughby reintroduced this bill it was recorded that trains had run late 100 per cent of the time this year. What are people getting for their money? What is the Government all about? The Government is hell-bent on making those least able to afford it pay for a service that should be provided as a community service.

Mr GREG APLIN (Albury) [4.43 p.m.]: I support the Transport Administration Amendment (CountryLink Pensioner Booking Fee Abolition) Bill 2009. I note the bill was previously introduced in October 2007. The bill stands in opposition to the unfair tax introduced by the former Minister for Transport and Deputy Premier; John Watkins. This legacy continues to embarrass the Government but it has not as yet found the gumption to support the bill and overturn the unfair tax not only on aged pensioners but also on pensioners who rely on the vouchers provided by the Government supposedly for free CountryLink travel. I speak of the two equivalent return vouchers provided to pensioners for travel anywhere in the State per calendar year.

It stands as an indictment of the Government that the people with these supposedly free vouchers are then required to pay either $10 or 15 per cent of the full adult fare for the equivalent journey each way, whichever total is the highest. That amount can be anywhere in the region of $20 to $50 for a single journey and the same for a return, depending on where they are travelling. That is one of the reasons why we have seen a decline of some 33 per cent in the patronage of CountryLink over the past six years. Not only has this fee affected the pensioners but also they, in turn, have dissuaded some of their relatives from accompanying them on their journeys. The vouchers were supplied in the first place to allow pensioners to visit their relatives, for leisure purposes, or to attend medical appointments or other businesses in Sydney, Newcastle, Casino or out to Broken Hill but they are now required to pay this unfair tax. It is not a fee: it is a tax. Also, if changes are required to be made to the original booking then pensioners must pay an additional administration fee.

Schedule 1 [1] to the bill makes it clear that an order fixing charges for services of RailCorp cannot impose a CountryLink pensioner booking fee, that is, a fee, however described, charged for or in relation to a New South Wales-Australian Capital Territory pensioner booking, a railway service provided by CountryLink using what would otherwise be a free travel pass, a concessional travel pass or a pensioner travel voucher. Schedule 1 [2] to the bill provides that RailCorp must not charge any pensioner booking fee for travel on a railway service provided by CountryLink. I support the bill and its intent of extending support to pensioners to access vouchers but they are then inhibited by this unfair tax imposed by the Government.

If that is not bad enough, incidents are regularly reported to me in Albury by my constituents, whether they be pensioners or normal full-fare paying passengers of CountryLink, that despite attempts some years ago to improve communication when trains are running late CountryLink staff have not yet found a way to inform passengers standing on platforms in the early hours of a cold winter's morning or late at night waiting for a train just how long the delay might be. This has been brought to the attention of the House before and it goes to the heart of what the bill and CountryLink should be all about. The Government continually fails the constituents of this State because it continues to fail to deliver good customer service.

It stands to reason that it is unfair to tax a free voucher: it is a contradiction in terms. In the same way, when you deliver a timetable it is a contradiction to regularly run late. If that were so then surely the obvious answer is to change the timetable to reflect the delays that occur. I acknowledge that delays do occur sometimes and for good reason, for example, in summer when the tracks dictate there should be a slower running time. Good service and good community understanding is at the heart of the bill and at the heart of improving CountryLink services. I commend the bill to the House and I implore the Government to support the bill unilaterally.

Mr THOMAS GEORGE (Lismore) [4.49 p.m.]: It is with pleasure that I participate in debate on the Transport Administration Amendment (CountryLink Pensioner Booking Fee Abolition) Bill 2009. I thank the shadow Minister for Transport and member for Willoughby, Ms Gladys Berejiklian, for her determination in ensuring that debate on this legislation has continued. This legislation was first introduced in 2007.

Mr Richard Amery: When did you last travel by train?

Mr THOMAS GEORGE: Five years ago this week, and that is because the Government closed down the rail service. The North Coast no longer has a rail service. The last trip I took was well and truly documented—it was the last train from Murwillumbah to Sydney. I have not travelled by rail since. If the member for Mount Druitt would like more information about the Casino to Murwillumbah rail link I will give it to him. The Labor Government imposed a booking tax in 2006. It cannot be described other than as a tax. Ever since, pensioners have been forced to pay 15 per cent of the full adult fare, or a minimum of $10. The Labor Party should be ashamed of itself for targeting the most vulnerable people in our community. The Government did not listen to their concerns when the bill was introduced in 2007. The State Government has continually deferred debate on this bill.

I presume the bill is before the House today because the Government has again run out of business. That is typical of this lazy Government. The Labor Government has not told pensioners how much money it has collected from this tax. In the first eight months of the tax the Government raised more than $2.5 million. That is a substantial amount, given it is coming off the back of pensioners who find it hard to make ends meet, especially in these tough economic times. The Labor Government has failed to recognise that this tax has deeply affected the pensioner community. In its 2006-07 report the Independent Transport Safety and Reliability Regulator stated that the pensioner booking tax was responsible for a decline in patronage. Why would anyone want to travel by rail?

The north of the State does not have a rail service because on 17 May five years ago that wonderful member in the other place, the Hon. Michael Costa, was closed down. He took the rail service away from the people of the North Coast and replaced it with a bus service. It has been reiterated today on a number of occasions that the North Coast has the fastest-growing population in the State, particularly for independent retirees, pensioners and the aged. But what has the Government done to stimulate patronage of our trains? People from Murwillumbah, Mullumbimby, Byron Bay, Bangalow and Lismore now have to board a bus at Murwillumbah and travel all the way down the coast through Ballina, back up through Lismore and then over to Casino. Pensioners and the aged—anyone who wants to catch the train—have to travel by bus for up to 100 kilometres from Murwillumbah to Casino and for more than another 100 kilometres if they take the extended route through Ballina. The trip takes about three hours.

Travellers then board the train at Casino and travel to Sydney. On top of that, they have to pay a tax to travel by train. And the Government wonders why patronage has dropped off. Very few people use the CountryLink bus service, which is provided by a Queensland company. The buses have very few passengers because the service provided by the State Rail Authority does not encourage people to travel on them. The Government has done nothing to stimulate patronage on State rail. The social impact on the lives of our pensioners has been severely impacted by this tax. I do not refer only to the people on the North Coast but also those in many other electorates. The member for Barwon is in the Chamber. I am sure he will highlight the concerns of his electorate. The member for Murray-Darling, who was in the Chamber earlier—

Mr John Williams: I'm back.

ACTING-SPEAKER (Mr Wayne Merton): Order! I call the member for Murray-Darling to order.

Mr THOMAS GEORGE: The member for Murray-Darling is back. I am sure the member for Murray-Darling will raise concerns in his electorate. The member for Orange is also in the Chamber. Other Coalition members will speak on the ramifications of the tax on people who live in country, regional and remote areas. If people in country and regional areas miss a bus or a train to go to the city they are finished for the day and will have to come back the next day. If the member for Mount Druitt misses a bus, he will wait only 15 to 20 minutes for another bus. Country people do not have that privilege. When this tax was introduced in 2007 the shadow Minister issued a media release, which stated that the then Premier had indicated "that extensive consultation took place with pensioner groups before the booking tax came into force, and yet there is no evidence of this". In 2007 the shadow Minister asked the Minister for Transport and the Premier to provide evidence that such consultation took place. To this day we have not seen that evidence.

Mr Russell Turner: It took place in Mount Druitt.

Mr THOMAS GEORGE: It took place in Mount Druitt, did it? Furthermore, pensioners and other rail users regard this tax as unfair. It is a disincentive to use country services at all. Families are being denied precious time together because grandparents can no longer afford to travel. That is not right. Many young families have to move to city areas and their parents want to visit them. Whether they are pensioners or self-funded retirees they can do so, but they have to pay the tax. Hundreds of residents living in rural and remote areas of our State signed petitions opposing the booking fee. The Labor Government has ignored all the concerns that have been expressed by country and regional representatives. It has turned its back on them and continued charging this unfair tax. Once again, the Government has unfairly treated the many thousands of pensioners throughout the State, particularly those in the Lismore and northern rivers areas. The Coalition remains determined to abolish this unfair booking fee. I compliment again the shadow Minister for Transport for bringing this bill before the House. I am very pleased to support it.

Mr RICHARD AMERY (Mount Druitt) [4.59 p.m.]: I speak to the Transport Administration Amendment (CountryLink Pensioner Booking Fee Abolition) Bill 2009. I listened to a couple of contributions by members of the Opposition and by way of interjection I asked when was the last time they had travelled on an XPT service, but I have not heard any answers. The booking fee has always been contentious and has been raised by Oppositions going back to the days when the Labor Party was in opposition and the Greiner Government introduced booking fees. People with various pension cards who travelled on CountryLink services were charged nominal fees for free travel. State Rail and CountryLink have always argued that the administration of the country rail service is far more complicated than that of the Sydney network—notwithstanding the volume of passengers and full-fare paying passengers on the Sydney service.

We should all support the maintenance of a very comprehensive and extensive CountryLink service. With all the very generous concessions provided to a number of travellers it is unfair for anyone to say that a booking fee is such an onerous payment if the Government feels that it is necessary. The member for Lismore said that we have raised $2.5 million. If every person used the CountryLink service and paid the full fare, which they do not, and if every seat on every service were full, which they are not, that service would still require a substantial amount of government assistance. It is not as though the Government is trying not to cover the cost of country rail services, and bus and coach services, which are of a very high standard; we are making only some reference to mitigating the cost of the service.

On 19 April my family and I made a trip to Surfers Paradise. My family went on an aircraft but I took it upon myself to buy a ticket and travel the day before on the overnight XPT service. The reason I speak on this bill is to compliment the staff of that service on the high-quality service offered to passengers on that train. Also, I compliment everybody involved on the refurbishment of that train. Obviously the train from Sydney to Brisbane has had some major renovations; it was of an extremely high standard. I got on the train at 4.30 p.m. on the Saturday afternoon and I arrived in Brisbane at 6.15 a.m., 15 minutes ahead of schedule. Service on the XPT was excellent and I commend those involved. The train was packed. It was pleasing to see so many families with young children on the train. I have no doubt that that extra patronage and the large patronage—

Mr Thomas George: It was going to Queensland.

Mr RICHARD AMERY: A lot of people got off at country stations along the way.

ACTING-SPEAKER (Mr Wayne Merton): Order! The member for Mount Druitt has the call. He does not need any encouragement from the member for Lismore.

Mr RICHARD AMERY: People were encouraged to be on that train by the very generous policy announced by the Minister for Transport recently, which provides that children travel free when accompanied by a full-fare paying passenger.

ACTING-SPEAKER (Mr Wayne Merton): Order! I call the member for Tweed to order.

Mr RICHARD AMERY: I compliment CountryLink for running an excellent service to Brisbane. If the train I travelled on is an example, it is consistent with train travel I have undertaken on the CountryLink Explorer. Much more is involved in running a country service over such a long distance than is involved in the running of a commuter train service in Sydney.

Mr RUSSELL TURNER (Orange) [5.04 p.m.]: I speak to the Transport Administration Amendment (CountryLink Pensioner Booking Fee Abolition) Bill 2009. I thank the shadow Minister for Transport, the member for Willoughby, for reintroducing this bill. As has been noted by other members, the bill was first introduced in 2007. I will address briefly some of the comments of the member for Mount Druitt. I agree that the system is expensive to run, but so is the whole of the CityRail network and the city buses and the city ferries, which are all continually subsidised. We are not talking about the quality of the XPT. Nothing is basically wrong with the XPT. I acknowledge that it has been upgraded, or is going through an upgrade at the moment. I travelled on the XPT only a couple of months ago from Sydney to Orange when yet another Rex airline service was cancelled.

It was an enjoyable trip at that hour of the morning. I was looked after very well and the meals were quite nice. It was only perhaps the line that let the train down. As we know, the train is capable of travelling at 160 kilometres an hour, which I understand it does out near Penrith, up the other side of Wellington and also on one small section near Spring Hill, outside of Orange. It is not the fault of the train that the service is not supported as it should be. As other members have acknowledged, the booking fee has led to a decline in patronage. Many people have told me that they would love to travel on the XPT, but they cannot put up with the behaviour of some of the passengers using filthy language and throwing food around. That tends to happen on the later trains when people have had a few drinks before they get on the train.

As I said, on the early morning train the behaviour of the passengers was quite satisfactory. But people have repeatedly told me that they would like to travel on the XPT and other train services but they cannot handle the bad behaviour of a minority of people on those trains. The Government should look into that issue. If it wants extra patronage on these trains it has to control the behaviour of a small minority of passengers. Many people have come into my office since 2007 to complain that Orange is out of the CityRail network. If they wish to travel on the electric train system down to Sydney or perhaps visit relatives up on the North Coast—even on a CountryLink bus—they have to pay booking fees. Two booking fees have to be paid to travel down to Lithgow to get on the CityRail network to travel down to Sydney. As soon as they leave the CityRail network to go up to the North Coast another two $10 booking fees have to be paid. When they come back they have to pay another two $10 booking fees to go through the CityRail network again. Then there are another two $10 booking fees to go from Lithgow back to Orange. They are up for a minimum of $80 in booking fees for, technically, a $2.50 ticket.

Something drastically wrong and it is discrimination against country people. As we know, if a person is eligible for a Seniors Card or is on a pension card he or she can travel all over Sydney for $2.50. People can get onto the train, onto the ferry, off the ferry, onto a bus, all day for $2.50, but country people cannot do that. It is nothing but discrimination against country people and it is a deterrent for people to travel on public transport. Many people, even though they cannot afford it, would prefer to travel by public transport but they are forced to travel via their own transport. The other deterrent is the deterioration of the rail line. The morning I went back to Orange on the XPT it was quite pleasant up to about Bathurst. From Bathurst it took 1½ hours to get to Orange, purely and simply because of the track on the other side around Blayney, up through Newbridge and through to Spring Hill before the line opens up again.

This train, which is capable of travelling at 160 kilometres an hour, creaks and groans around the corners at speeds of between 40 and 50 kilometres an hour. It became painful between Bathurst and Orange. That is yet another deterrent to train travel. If this Government is keen to get people back to public transport it must examine that situation as well. People are reluctant to use public transport and the booking fee is one of the strongest deterrents to people around Orange and west of Orange. I know many people whose children take them to Lithgow to get on to the CityRail system so they do not have to pay the booking fee or to suffer the tedious trip around the other side of Blayney.

I commend the shadow Minister for reintroducing this bill—and I certainly commend it. I hope, but I doubt, that the Government will consider it sympathetically. Members opposite seem to be obsessed with country people not getting the same deal as people in the city. The Government does not appear to have realised the impact on the overall cost of travel if passengers break their CountryLink journey by transferring to a CityRail service. Country passengers cannot get a return fare, which means they must break their journey and thus are subject to another booking fee, and that is despite the fact that both systems are run by the State Government, which says that it is looking after the country people and people using public transport. That is certainly not true as far as country people are concerned. I repeat: If the Government wants to attract people back to public transport it should abolish the booking fee, address behaviour on trains and, wherever possible, upgrade lines so that trains can reach the speeds at which they have been designed and engineered to travel.

Mr JOHN WILLIAMS (Murray-Darling) [5.12 p.m.]: For many people in rural and remote New South Wales the past 10 years have been exceedingly difficult, primarily due to the prolonged drought. That drought has seen a mass exodus of young people from their hometowns in search of employment opportunities, most commonly to larger centres hundreds of kilometres away from where they grew up and where their parents still live. This change in population distribution means that many older people are now separated from their children and grandchildren by great distances. In this day of fractured family units, with members living in different towns and cities and leading increasingly busy lives, it is important for all family members that they be able to spend what little quality time they can together. CountryLink pensioner travel vouchers have for many years now provided pensioners with the opportunity to travel on CountryLink trains and coach services up to four times each calendar year. Those vouchers have been a godsend to pensioners as the cost of living has dramatically increased in recent years and day-to-day expenses have skyrocketed.

When this Government announced that from 1 March 2006 it was introducing a booking fee for pensioners using their pension travel vouchers a great deal of concern was expressed by pensioners from across the State. That booking fee, which this Government may see as nominal, was set at 15 per cent of the full adult fare for the entire New South Wales section of the journey or a minimum of $10. For pensioners living in coastal centres dotted up and down the eastern seaboard 15 per cent of a full adult fare to see their family members further up or down the coast is not a great outlay. They may in fact see it as an acceptable figure.

However, for people in rural and remote centres such as those in the Murray-Darling electorate 15 per cent of the full adult fare can be a significant amount. For example, for a couple living in Broken Hill who have family they wish to visit in Port Macquarie the booking fee is $28.40 per person per trip, or an additional $113.60. In today's world, if you are a pensioner couple living off benefits only that is more than 12.5 per cent of your fortnightly combined gross income. To some people an additional $113.60 may seem like chicken feed, but to people living in rural and remote areas, where the cost of everyday items is high because they have to be transported over great distances from larger centres, that extra cost could be the deciding factor in whether or not they take their first trip in two years to see their grandchildren. A trip from Tocumwal in the south to Armidale would attract a booking fee for a pensioner couple of $242.10 or almost 27 per cent of their combined fortnightly income.

I ask this Government how it thinks it is fair to slug pensioners—people who in all likelihood have worked their guts out for more than 40 years—with a booking fee on their travel when it claims to be in good financial shape itself. This action is bully-like: it is the action of someone bigger hurting someone smaller simply because they think they can get away with it. This is not a new fight for The Nationals. In September 2003 the New South Wales Nationals leader Andrew Stoner stepped up to the plate for rural and remote pensioners, stating that an interim report by this State Government into the funding of public transport had recommended a raft of changes, including an increase in pensioner fares. Country senior citizens already pay at least double the fares paid by city senior citizens. They often have to travel long distances to major regional centres, not only for recreational or family-related reasons but also to access medical and other vital services.

Pensioner travel voucher usage has dramatically decreased since the CountryLink pensioner booking fee was introduced. Tens of thousands fewer pensioner travel vouchers are being used annually. I suggest that is most directly attributable to the increased cost of travel since the booking fee was introduced. The fee has caused a decrease in the number of tourists visiting Broken Hill, which relies on tourist income. This Government claims it is in a strong financial position, which is more than can be said for many pensioners. If that is the case, the Government must reconsider this unfair and mean-spirited attack on pensioners and abolish the CountryLink pensioner booking fee it introduced on 1 March 2006.

Mrs DAWN FARDELL (Dubbo) [5.18 p.m.]: I will speak briefly on the Transport Administration Amendment (CountryLink Pensioner Booking Fee Abolition) Bill 2009, which was introduced by the member for Willoughby. I support Coalition members' comments about this bill. If we had a superior rail service I do not believe that people would mind paying for it. It is expensive to travel on trains in Europe but it is not uncommon to see staff cleaning the carriages every 30 minutes, and they also have train guards. I am sure people do not mind paying a bit extra for that kind of service. I have received many representations about this issue over the past couple of years, particularly from Combined Pensioners and Superannuants Association members Joan Teale and Keith Farrinds—two very hardworking members—who have been long-time lobbyists about this fee. I recall speaking to former Treasurer Michael Costa about this issue. He said, in his usual manner, "Okay, I will get rid of the booking fee, but the XPT will go as well." That was the end of the conversation.

We are fortunate to have the XPT service to Dubbo, but we must remain constantly alert to ensure the carriages are not reduced from four to three. Fortunately, people in the system ring me if there is a threat of a carriage being dropped off or the class of a carriage is changed. Many rail, motel and zoo packages have been introduced. The booking fee makes them costly, particularly when more than one person is travelling. Many people taking up those packages are families and pensioners. Very rarely do I see a single mother on QantasLink or on the Rex plane. There are two reasons for that: first, they cannot afford it and, second, there are probably too many health bureaucrats going for their twice-weekly meetings in Sydney when they could use teleconferencing. We need to use the XPT. When it is not available there are problems. Many people then have to drive to Lithgow or travel by coach to Lithgow to use the electric system. They are still hit with a booking fee.

Many health patients, for example, prefer to travel by coach—which is not real cheap—or the XPT, particularly male prostate cancer patients, who find it unpleasant to travel by air. With the cost of accessing services, the low return from the Isolated Patients Transport and Accommodation Assistance Scheme [IPTAAS], the cost of accommodation when they get to Sydney, being hit with a booking fee as well makes it very expensive for them. A recent example of the lack of transport services in Dubbo affected Bruce, who came to me only last week. He is well known for selling raffle tickets around the area. He was told by his doctor that he had to be in Orange Hospital this week and he had to find his own way there. This is a fellow with special needs. He is unable to drive, and we do not have a regular bus service. The timetable of the XPT did not allow for that, so Bruce was told by the health service that he could go with the community transport system. That was going to cost $130 because the service had to pay for the driver to stay overnight to bring him home the next day. If a more satisfactory rail service were available he would not have to cop this.

He was told that no IPTAAS assistance was available to him as it already subsidised the community transport and could not subsidise Bruce as well. A kind soul who knew Bruce, one of the stalwarts of the Dubbo football club, picked up the fee. Great advice given to Bruce by the Greater Western Area Health Service was to go to Centrelink and ask for an advance on his Centrelink payment for the next fortnight! I do not know what he would have done when he subsequently received a payment $130 short. If his doctor had been smart and booked Bruce into the hospital in Dubbo the night before he possibly could have got the frequent transport to Orange and back. I commend this bill. I call on the Government to support the bill. The Government has to stop thinking that there are no votes for it past the Blue Mountains. It forgets that people in small villages access the XPT service. They come from far and wide to Dubbo to catch this service. All those people have family and friends who live throughout New South Wales, and they vote as well.

Mr KEVIN HUMPHRIES (Barwon) [5.23 p.m.]: The overview of the Transport Administration Amendment (CountryLink Pensioner Booking Fee Abolition) Bill 2009 states that the object of the bill is to abolish booking fees on the use of pensioner travel vouchers and passes on CountryLink rail services. I commend the member for Willoughby for bringing forward this bill, as well as those members who have spoken today from both sides of the House. I commence my remarks by thanking the staff of CountryLink rail services. The member for Orange raised the issue of supervision and behaviour on CountryLink services. Only last week I received a letter from a constituent in Moree who was very unhappy with the standard of behaviour. My good friend Norm Bender, a CountryLink rail driver who lives at Werris Creek, gives me constant updates on the state of rail passenger services and maintenance issues. One thing always of concern on CountryLink services is the level of supervision and the behaviour that is accepted by the Government through lack of supervision on those services.

It all goes to passenger usage and how we build capacity on transport. I find it hypocritical that members of the Government look down their noses at country people, saying that they subsidise us for this and for that. The sum of $3.5 billion is spent on transport services in this State. The majority of that funding is subsidised, well over $2.5 billion. Transport is not self-recovering. The majority of the subsidies are in the city, not the country. Tomorrow I am going to Mount Druitt. If I were a pensioner I could travel all around the system for $2.50, and if I missed the first train from Wynyard I would be able to catch another dozen. As the member for Lismore said, we do not have that privilege. When this tax was introduced the Government did not understand the seamlessness required for transport services in New South Wales. Government members tried to get their heads around it when they tried to introduce a Tcard, which was a lazy $100 million fiasco, and there is no mention of that from the Government.

As the member for Murray-Darling rightly said, because we do not have seamless transport connections, to travel from Broken Hill to Port Macquarie requires a series of connections and a number of rebookings, and the poor old pensioner is up for almost $130 in booking fees. The same could be said of travelling from Tocumwal through to Armidale. A series of connections will sometimes cost up to $200 in booking fees. For pensioners and particularly self-funded retirees, who are not subject to the $10 minimum, that is an inordinate amount of money. When the Government introduced this tax it really did not understand its implications. Not only is this a tax on pensioners and hardworking people who have contributed to this country, it is also setting up a two-standard system. As we have heard today, to live on the western side of the sandstone curtain is a disadvantage if we are being discriminated against. There are many good things about living in the country, but this is purely about discrimination.

Not only do we have a fractured service in New South Wales, with an unfair tax burden being placed on pensioners, part-funded retirees and anyone of a senior's age wanting to use the rail system, but some people in the State are now not accessing lifesaving treatment. Recently my electorate, which is a considerable part of the State, lost its air services. Bourke—this is a bit of a history lesson for the Government—was opened on the Darling River by the advent of paddle steamers in the 1880s. To an extent, paddle steamers opened up the inland and gave people access to a port in South Australia. That brought in migration and development. In the 1890s there was the advent of rail. The rail service to Bourke opened up the inland of Australia, and this was recorded by Henry Lawson. When Henry Lawson wrote "If you know Bourke, you know Australia", he was writing about hardship, about the efforts people made in infrastructure development in this country during the early Federation years.

The bridge over the Darling River opened up more road transport in the early part of the century. In the 1950s we had an air service. Today we have lost our air service to Bourke. The bridge over the Darling River has been replaced, thank God. We have lost our rail service. The army blew up the rail line between Nyngan and Bourke as part of an experiment on an exercise, so we have no rail. We have gradually lost the services that have been built up over 100 years. It is a disgrace. Expansion and development increases with infrastructure, but we are now seeing a retraction of services and infrastructure, and therefore population and development, in the western part of New South Wales. Thirty years ago pensioners used to be able to access life-saving treatment by rail. They can longer access health services from Bourke or Cobar—flights were lost out of Cobar. Pensioners in the more remote areas used to have a regular service—we have gone backwards, not forwards—and this is detrimental. It is discrimination against people living in rural and remote areas, who are vulnerable.

Pursuant to sessional orders business interrupted and set down as an order of the day for a future day.